evolution of irish accents?

conorhal

aya startin wha wrote: »

my eldest daughter is always poppin out with americanisms, she's constantly exposed to American tv!

I'd be telling her that, 'if you use the word 'like' one more time in a sentence in which you're not expressing a fond preference for something, I'm going to send you to boarding school in the Whest to fix that my Dear'.

crockholm

irishfeen wrote: »

Ha ha your accent must be very bad if you wont even give the county

Close to home;)(for you anyway).
I believe it's called a sliabh luachra accent-a weird cork/kerry/limerick gumbo with added marbles in the gob!!:D

donegal__road

evolution of the Irish accent:

1. George Hook

2. Rachel Allen

irishfeen

crockholm wrote: »

Close to home;)(for you anyway).
I believe it's called a sliabh luachra accent-a weird cork/kerry/limerick gumbo with added marbles in the gob!!:D

Be proud of it! .. outside of Ireland it would be classed as incredibly sexy :pac:

Cathyht

I'm loving the non stuffy accents in RTE news now. Real Irish accents, Dub and around the country, no one bothering to put anything on. Today something was "solt aff". Another thing was "wurse". Anything is better than that stiff Charles Mitchel accent they all had, used to wear me out.

MadsL

I'm considering developing an American accent (well I do live in the US after all) simply because of the utter horror of people asking if I am Australian...NOOOOOOOOO!!!!


Karma for all the crap I talked about Aussies I reckon.

Aussie joke:
What's the difference between Australia and a Yoghurt?
If you leave a yoghurt alone for a while it will grow a culture.

Ericaa

I hate having an Irish accent!

ciarriaithuaidh

Few thoughts.

I love the fact that there is such a variety of accents in Ireland, its amazing that an hours journey will mean you hear totally different accents. For example, the northside of Cork is about an hour from the Cork/Kerry border...drastic change in accents.
I must say the onset of this Americanised/D4/AAroadwatch accent (whatever you want to call it) annoys me as it is a totally false accent and gains popularity through people imitating each other. I'm not just slagging off people in South Dublin here, there are people in Cork who have it, it's ridiculous!
I went to college with a guy from the midlands who has a this accent. I made the point of asking him where his parent were from..Cavan and Tipperary..probably trying to avoid either of those. :pac: Seriously though,wtf?
Also know a guy through work who is from Connacht, but has worked for maybe 2/3 tears in South Dublin..total D4 accent now..he lets it slip often and he gets an awful time about it, correctly..but still keeps using it. I find that totally bizarre and have told him to cop himself on, but he disnmisses that kind of talk and doesn't engage.
To get a bit closer to home personally, there a several different types of accent in Kerry. The stereotypical Kerry accent people think they know, does exist..more in the East/South of the county. The West Kerry accent is different again, bit softer. North Kerry accent can be harsh in spots I suppose, we speak very quickly I've been told.

Overall, I feel if you lose your accent in less than say 10 years, its down to wanting to lose it. Personally have relatives and friends who left Ireland 30 years + ago and still speak the same way..I admire that a lot. I think losing your accent, means losing part of your yourself..some people might want to do that, but like I said I love meeting Irish people abroad who still retain their accent.

WesternZulu

Ericaa wrote: »

I hate having an Irish accent!

Good for you.

gobnaitolunacy

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Few thoughts.

I love the fact that there is such a variety of accents in Ireland, its amazing that an hours journey will mean you hear totally different accents. For example, the northside of Cork is about an hour from the Cork/Kerry border...drastic change in accents.

One accent seems to morph into another variant about every 25 miles or so.

MRnotlob606

this is happening everywhere even in non english speaking countries like the netherlands and sweden

gobnaitolunacy

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

this is happening everywhere even in non english speaking countries like the netherlands and sweden

Of course, Germans can recognise if you have a Berlin or a bogger Bavarian accent. Mate learnt German picked up a mucksavage Bavarian accent and got a slagging over it.

MRnotlob606

irish accent was voted worlds sexiest, when we travel abroad we need a woman repellent

strobe

I've never known any Irish person that speaks in that Americanesk accent not to suddenly lose it when they are overly stressed or upset or excited. Odd that.

Wibbs

The evolution of the modern posh/D4/Mid Atlantic twang has a few origins I'd say, but "class" would be the guts of it. The posh bit comes from being an ex British colony. Those in power spoke with received english tones so the idea that this was "proper" english would be a strong one. Even after we shrugged off the colonists that would have still had currency.

Secondly the migration of people from rural to urban areas in the 40's and 50's would play a part. As they moved up in the world and class enough didn't like their original accents so sought out elocution for their kids. I've know so many people with a D4 type accent whose parents had perfectly fine rural accents. I recall reading that Ireland had one of the highest densities of elocution teachers in Europe at one stage.

I can remember growing up knowing girls whose schools had elocution lessons and that was in the late 70's. I knew no boys schools with similar. I suppose because women were more socially mobile historically picking up the "right accent" was more useful. Even now you tend to hear more teenage girls and women with the whiney D4/mid atlantic accent than you hear boys and men with it. The influence of elocution you can still see today. EG The old fear fear of dropping aitches and appearing "common" means people will add them where none exist, heightH instead of the correct heighT.

The americanisation thing is more recent. Even though I knew plenty of D4 heads and the odd mid atlantic accent I can't recall hearing the west coast american/the Hills thang much before the mid nineties and it really took off after that. I know I'll get stick for this next bit as I have in the past, but take the word "mom". I never heard that pronunciation or saw that spelling growing up (unless it was on US TV). Some say it's from the Irish pronunciation, but the Irish pronunciation is subtly different to the US pronunciation of that word(dunno how to write it, but more of a "moam"). If someone can find me an example of an Irish man or woman saying "mom" in print or other media before 1990 you'll win a prize, yet today it seems to be the majority of people write and say Mom. The "Irish mammy" is a cliche, not the "Irish Mommy".

giant_midget

I think some people seem to get the south dublin accent mixed up with this ear burning american/irish accent. It's not the case (im from north dublin) it seems to be the student type of people/wannabie hippies in their designer hippy clothes that speak in this moronic way.

One poster a few pages back said that he/she adapts their accent to where they reside wtf....

Are people that embarrased of where they come from? few slaps around the head with a big salmon would soon knock the native tongue back in these gimps..

Oops!

Mate of mine went to Killarney a few years back for the May bank holiday wknd, came back with the accent and held it for about a month! The same fella usually has the biggest bogger Tipp accent you could think of. Mad!

donegal__road

The theory of Colonial Lag is the idea that some isolated American rural dialects, especially in Appalachian “hillbilly” territory, had actually managed to preserve Elizabethan English. The dialect show closeness to the language of Shakespeare, which is no longer spoken in Britain.

Eg.

mad : angry

I guess: I suppose

a bug : an illness

Fall : Autumn

the use of 'a' prefix before a verb : a-running, a-hunting



Our version of Colonial Lag in Ireland is referred to as Hiberno-English.

'craic', 'eejit', 'cop-on' and 'yoke' are examples of words used in Hiberno-English which were derived from Old and Middle-English.

Here is the Wiki article on Hiberno-English

donegal__road

donegal__road wrote: »

The theory of Colonial Lag is the idea that some isolated American rural dialects, especially in Appalachian “hillbilly” territory, had actually managed to preserve Elizabethan English. The dialect show closeness to the language of Shakespeare, which is no longer spoken in Britain.

Eg.

mad : angry

I guess: I suppose

a bug : an illness

Fall : Autumn

the use of 'a' prefix before a verb : a-running, a-hunting



Our version of Colonial Lag in Ireland is referred to as Hiberno-English.

'craic', 'eejit', 'cop-on' and 'yoke' are examples of words used in Hiberno-English which were derived from Old and Middle-English.

Here is the Wiki article on Hiberno-English

That wiki is very interesting, I know I talk like that a lot, its only if you are taking to someone who did not grow up in Ireland that you realise the way you speak for example I am terrible for saying things like " I am after meeting my sister up the town" and such like.

donegal__road

mariaalice wrote: »

That wiki is very interesting, I know I talk like that a lot, its only if you are taking to someone who did not grow up in Ireland that you realise the way you speak for example I am terrible for saying things like " I am after meeting my sister up the town" and such like.

'I was sitting in the middle of my dinner when someone called to the door'

MJ23

My niece calls the rubbish "garbage", it's a serious cringe when I hear it.
It comes from Nickelodeon and Disney channel being on every day.

MJ23

Those Healy-Rae fellas from Kerry. How could anyone take them seriously? It sounds like the most put-on accent ever.
They're eejits too.

Ericaa

WesternZulu wrote: »

Good for you.

Not really, considering I'm stuck with one...

looking_around

I often get asked if I have american relations ): ..I hate that question >.<. I was raised in Shannon/Limerick area, and I never watched much tv then, and even now, but I've had people asking me this for years!.

I don't why I sound "american-ish".

awec

As someone with an accent that is vastly different from the accent of people from the area in which I live and work I find it hard to understand how someone's accent can change drastically.

Like, how do these people go to the states for a few years and come back talking like an american?

I have a pretty strong northern accent, and live in South Dublin. The accents are like chalk and cheese. I may have to use different words / sayings (such as "giving out" instead of "giving off"), and I have to speak much slower down here for people to understand what I am saying but I am confident my accent is the same as it always has been and when I go home I sound nothing like a dub.

looking_around

awec wrote: »

As someone with an accent that is vastly different from the accent of people from the area in which I live and work I find it hard to understand how someone's accent can change drastically.

Like, how do these people go to the states for a few years and come back talking like an american?

I have a pretty strong northern accent, and live in South Dublin. The accents are like chalk and cheese. I may have to use different words / sayings (such as "giving out" instead of "giving off"), and I have to speak much slower down here for people to understand what I am saying but I am confident my accent is the same as it always has been and when I go home I sound nothing like a dub.

I think it's more if you stay in another country* for a good few years. (and don't travel back to your original place, where you get a refresh of accent)

My mother is Portuguese. And is always slagged for her Irish accent.
She went to Portugal a couple of years back on holiday, and was asked "when did she learn portuguese, as she speaks it very well....but with an accent". XD

but, in saying that, she has been out of Portugal for 20 odd years

Eeden

Sometimes it just happens - it's not someone trying to be pretentious or posh.

My accent changes - I've lived in the US (as a child) and in Ireland. Some say it's to do with a musical ear, or empathy, or just a desire to fit in. I don't know about that; I just know I can't help it.

Wibbs

donegal__road wrote: »

Our version of Colonial Lag in Ireland is referred to as Hiberno-English.

'craic', 'eejit', 'cop-on' and 'yoke' are examples of words used in Hiberno-English which were derived from Old and Middle-English.

We're more likely to say gotten instead of got too. Another one, though maybe only in Dublin was instead of the "drain was blocked" you'd hear "the shore was blocked". I think that's tudor too. "Bowler" for a dog was another Dublin one(AFAIK). Chiseler, gurrier and words like that you hear less of these days which I think is a pity. Others I can think of would be pronunciations that even survive D4 etc EG instead of "Guardian", you'll often hear "Garjian". The D gets softened. I think that's from the Irish too. One that can really throw British folks is if you use the word bold instead of naughty. "He's such a bold boy". "Brave is he?" They dunno where to look

The "I'm after doing..." is from Irish IIRC. No direct translation in British English so we bent it to work. Nothing terrible about either mariaalice, it's Hiberno English and unique. I do it myself. Funny enough I've found English people get the gist of that one for some reason.

Eeden wrote: »

Sometimes it just happens - it's not someone trying to be pretentious or posh.

My accent changes - I've lived in the US (as a child) and in Ireland. Some say it's to do with a musical ear, or empathy, or just a desire to fit in. I don't know about that; I just know I can't help it.

I'd agree with that. Some just absorb that stuff much more easily. My dad lived all over the world and yes he picked up local names of things alright. So he'd often say things like elevator rather than lift and stationwagon rather than estate(or for the true posh types "shooting brake":D), but he said them in an Irish accent.

I suspect the ability to pick up accents would make you better at picking up languages. Women in general have more of a facility for picking up languages so this might explain them picking up new "fashionable" accents?

gobnaitolunacy

Wibbs wrote: »

Women in general have more of a facility for picking up languages so this might explain them picking up new "fashionable" accents?

So they'll eventually all sound like a radio ad for Kildare Village?

clairefontaine

looking_around wrote: »

I often get asked if I have american relations ): ..I hate that question >.<. I was raised in Shannon/Limerick area, and I never watched much tv then, and even now, but I've had people asking me this for years!.

I don't why I sound "american-ish".

That's funny. I get mistaken for Canadian and I'm American. I think Ireland's used to he West Coast accent from the television.

swimming in a sea

razorgil wrote: »

the amount of american shows the young women are watchin these days, is it any wonder they sound american??

I saw a Beatles program where it said Paul McCartney's father bemoaned the lyrics to "She Loves You" because they say "yeah, yeah yeah" he thought it was another sellout to Americanisms.

We'll always been influenced by the most dominant culture so I say embrace it.

feargale

Jake1 wrote: »

Some people go to the states for a few months and come back with ridiculous accents.

I lived in the southern states in the US for years, and never lost my accent.

And when a Yankee comes here and talks like an Irishman after three months we say : " Ah sure isn't he great! One of ourselves! A down to earth fella with no notions above his station! Give him another pint for Jaysus' sake."

Butterface

I've been studying in England for 3 years and if anything, my Irish accent is stronger than it has ever been. I think this is down to the fact that I have to annuciate my words a lot clearer than I would at home, and instead of this having the D4 effect, it bizarrely comes off as even more culchie than normal.

I'm surrounded by people with quite posh Southern English accents, and this does make me quite self-conscious sometimes when I hear myself utter "jaysus chrisht" in company. But I'm too aware of how I sound to ever start picking up their accent. Also I find the Southern English accents mostly insufferable to listen to..

MadsL

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Also I find the Southern English accents mostly insufferable to listen to..

"Jew live in Sufferern Eyer-laaand, den or wot?"

feargale

InTheTrees wrote: »

YUp. We get Canadian TV here in seattle and its odd the first time you hear them.

Totally Irish accent. its a western irish like Galway. Is it Newfoundland?

Newfoundland Irish came almost entirely from the south-east, Kilkenny, Waterford, Wexford, South Tipp..

feargale

spank_inferno wrote: »

I find accents facinating.
I do wonder if we go back far enough when was the first accent identifiable as "Irish".
Also.... Being from Wicklow we run the range of accents from fine..... to awfull!

The first significant English settlement of Dublin was by people from Bristol. Listen for echoes of the West Country in the Dublin accent. Is there a great difference between Ronnie Drew and Benny Hill?

feargale

Cathyht wrote: »

Around here a young wan giving lip to her ol 'Ma' sounds like Miley (from Glenroe, not the twerking one). Then in a heartbeat, those *like* squeaky, enthusiastic, supernice twangy voices come out of nowhere when they meet someone their own age. It's quite incredible.

On the contrary, it's a natural and widespread linguistic phenomenon. In the North of Italy, German speakers will assert their superiority by speaking German to speakers of minority languages such as Friuli and Ladino, and the latter will trump them by answering in Italian.

feargale

dd972 wrote: »

You'd have thought that with Irish parentage and being here for nearly 20 years that Pat Dolan would have at least by now inflected that f**k awful Estuary English accent of his with some trace of Irishness.:eek:

Ah yes. Every Irish person who goes abroad should retain their Irish accent, and every foreigner who comes to Ireland should immediately acquire an Irish accent. And we can't stand the sound of several accents that differ from our own. The people always talk funny on the other side of the mountain. Reading this thread I wonder how many here have done the most rudimentary reading or study of language or dialect. As some have pointed out here it is entirely natural to pick up the mode of speaking which dominates one's environment, or not to, depending on how one lives in that environment or how one's ear is tuned.

feargale

spank_inferno wrote: »

I find accents facinating.
I do wonder if we go back far enough when was the first accent identifiable as "Irish".
Also.... Being from Wicklow we run the range of accents from fine..... to awfull!

The first significant English settlement of Dublin was by people from Bristol. Listen for echoes of the West Country in the Dublin accent. Is there a great difference between Ronnie Drew and Benny Hill?

grenache

feargale wrote: »

On the contrary, it's a natural and widespread linguistic phenomenon. In the North of Italy, German speakers will assert their superiority by speaking German to speakers of minority languages such as Friuli and Ladino, and the latter will trump them by answering in Italian.

I can attest to this! But as my friend from South Tyrol always says, "we're Austrians who happened to be on the wrong side in the war". And she is right. For their penance, they ended up in Italy.

RiverSong29

My boyfriend is from South Dublin area and I am an American who has been born and raised here. My boyfriend the only Irish accent I here on a regular basis. The other day my friend noticed me saying some words with an Irish accent. All I need now is stop pronouncing letter and throw enunciation out the window.

Sir Arthur Daley

Did Peig Sayers kick of the Irish accent?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

hfallada wrote: »

I have noticed a lot of young irish girls with American accents. But tbh I prefer an american accent to some young one shouting "ah jaysus howiya Jaaaade" with an inner city accent

Why? At least its an Irish accent.

wil

relatively unchanged in 4 centuries.
might have more of a cough these days.

Andrew_C

donegal__road wrote: »

evolution of the Irish accent:

1. George Hook

2. Rachel Allen

hahahaha.
Well, I don't listen to Rugby pundits, which is why I know nothing about the game (??), and I only watch Lady Allen with the sound turned down. God Almighty, I refuse to believe any one talks in that affected way without realising it.

I speak with a beautifully refined north Dublin accent, fully rounded vowels and no clipped consonants. I'd love to hear myself one day.....