Any plans for an Aldi store in South Dublin close to the coast?

ted1

corglass wrote: »

Anyone know how quickly the stores are usually built from time of grant of planning?

Aldi wouldn't be the fastest builders, taking them a long time to build the one in Terenure.

Larbre34

In other areas they can be fast, I suppose it depends on local ground conditions, access and services. They lashed up the one in Clonee village near where I live.

I would guess they want to tap a rich vein locally asap!

OssianSmyth

I expect that Lidl will now be refused permission at the Deer Hunter site at the Sallynoggin roundabout. I've written something about this here:
ALDI now approved for Sallynoggin - Lidl now unlikely

Aard

I was under the impresion that "discount" supermarkets were no longer a thing in planning terms - ie now no different than regular supermarkets?

Secondly, are ABP allowed refuse Lidl permission solely because Aldi is nearby? Surely if Lidl have a RIA they should be granted permission (assuming other standards are in order)?

OssianSmyth

No huge difference from 2010 county development plan to the new draft plan:

2010 development plan wrote:

Neighbourhood Centres
> These centres usually contain one supermarket
or discount foodstore ranging in size from
1,000-2,500sqm with a limited range of
supporting shops and retail services and
possibly other services such as post offices,
community centres or health clinics grouped
together to create a focus for the local
population. These centres meet the local dayto-day
needs of surrounding residents.

2016 draft development plan wrote:

Neighbourhood Centres
These centres usually contain one supermarket
ranging in size from 1,000-2,500 sq.m. with a
limited range of supporting shops and retail
services and possibly other services such as post
offices, community centres or health clinics
grouped together to create a focus for the local
population. These centres meet the local day-today
needs of surrounding residents.

The retail planning guidelines 2012 suggests a 'small supermarket' for neighbourhood centres without saying exactly how small. The inspector said this was not a small supermarket but doesn't explain why he feels he can ignore the Retail Planning Guidelines.

What the RPG and the CDP share is a reference to 'one supermarket' for neighbourhood centres, so I can't see Lidl getting approved.

Aard

Do you think the Inspector overstepped the mark in his report?

Gotta say that I wouldn't agree with limiting NC's to "one" supermarket. Just gives huge advantage to the first mover, no matter the quality of the product/offering. Unnecessary intervention in competition.

strandroad

So how was Lidl approved for Stillorgan and Deansgrange?

Glencarraig

mhge wrote: »

So how was Lidl approved for Stillorgan and Deansgrange?

Or for Deansgrange and Pottery Road !!

ted1

Glencarraig wrote: »

Or for Deansgrange and Pottery Road !!

The council restricted the size of the stores and parking in deansgrange so LIDL built two.

OssianSmyth

mhge wrote: »

So how was Lidl approved for Stillorgan and Deansgrange?

These are two separate areas. Deansgrange is a neighbourood centre and Stillorgan is a district centre

Glencarraig wrote: »

Or for Deansgrange and Pottery Road !!

The Pottery Road site was zoned E for economic development and employment. When Lidl applied for planning permission in 2005, the 2004 development plan permitted discount supermarkets in brownfield industrial sites. This was revoked in the next development plan in 2010 so would be les likely to be permitted now.

Aard wrote: »

Do you think the Inspector overstepped the mark in his report?

The question is whether he should have followed the newer RPG where it conflicted with the CDP. I would have thought that the RPG as a national guideline would take precedence but I'll have to check that.

Gotta say that I wouldn't agree with limiting NC's to "one" supermarket. Just gives huge advantage to the first mover, no matter the quality of the product/offering. Unnecessary intervention in competition.

There's always a tension between planning and competition.

When I spoke to people in Sallynoggin, several told me that they had two Lidls within range and that they would favour an ALDI for the variety. In practice, having an ALDI or a Lidl in walking distance of your home will cut your food bill when you've only had a Centra convenience store in the past.

strandroad

OssianSmyth wrote: »

These are two separate areas. Deansgrange is a neighbourood centre and Stillorgan is a district centre

That's not what I meant; Deansgrange Lidl already had SupeValu across the road and Stillorgan Lidl had Tesco.

OssianSmyth

I was told this morning that Lidl's planning application was refused by the council on grounds that
* area is sufficiently served by permitted ALDI in close proximity
* nursing home too high
* bus stops too close to Salloniggin Rd entrance
* insuffficient green roof coverage

This decision may be appealed but I doubt that will happen.

coylemj

Aard wrote: »

I was under the impresion that "discount" supermarkets were no longer a thing in planning terms - ie now no different than regular supermarkets?

Try telling that to the folk over in Portmarnock, they kept out one of those stores by using spurious objections that had 'snobbery' written all over them.

coylemj

mhge wrote: »

That's not what I meant; Deansgrange Lidl already had SupeValu across the road and Stillorgan Lidl had Tesco.

The Lidl store at the crossroads in Deansgrange was in the pipeline for several years. The development involved demolition of the old Bank of Ireland, the construction of an underground car park and above it a new bank branch and Lidl store.

The Supervalu guy across the road pulled out all the stops to keep Lidl out, he bankrolled an ad hoc 'combined Deansgrange residents association' to lodge objections but it backfired spectacularly when he himself attempted to build an apartment block behind his store for student accommodation - the association he was effectively funding lodged an objection and PP was refused!

zagmund

I've always wondered about Orrr-Tee-Eees use of the phrase "discount supermarkets" in the news. It's like it's a put down or a coded way of saying "they're not from around here".

Every supermarket is a "discounter" - just look at the aisle ends in Dunnes, Supervalu, Tesco, etc . . .

Does anyone know for sure whether the term has any basis in planning (or any other) regulations?

z

Aard

There used to be a distinction, zagmund. But not any more.

the groutch

I'd love for them to put in a planning application for one in Dalkey, just to see the conniptions the locals would have.

OssianSmyth

mhge wrote: »

That's not what I meant; Deansgrange Lidl already had SupeValu across the road and Stillorgan Lidl had Tesco.

When Lidl was granted permission for Deansgrange, the 1998 development plan was in force along with the retail planning guidelines of the time. Both a supermarket and a discount supermarket were then permitted for a neighbourhood centre so Deansgrange got both.

Stillorgan was zoned a district centre and permitted to have multiple supermarkets.

The arrival of Lidl in Deansgrange led to discounting in Supervalu, while Lidl responded to competition with a bakery and some brand name goods rather than the bare minimum selection. Both shops were improved by having to compete with each other.

Aard

OssianSmyth wrote: »

Both shops were improved by having to compete with each other.

Do you think that the DLR Development Plan (or even the Retail PG) sometimes conspires against healthy competition?