Any plans for an Aldi store in South Dublin close to the coast?

wowy

coylemj wrote: »

Well it clearly isn't going to happen because Donnybrook Fair, Starbucks and most recently Mao's restaurant wouldn't have spent the money they did on their units if the whole place was going to be redeveloped.

I was only pointing out that permission had in fact been granted despite you saying that locals had successfully objected to applications on the basis of traffic concerns.

I do agree that it is highly unlikely that the scheme will be developed, but that's not to do with the recent fit-outs, but more to do with over-supply of retail in Dublin region.

TBH nobody knows what sort of deals these occupiers have; Donnybrook Fair apparently were granted up to 2 years rent-free. The Mao unit has an average annual rent of €100,000 (https://www.propertypriceregister.ie/Website/npsra/PPR/npsra-ppr-com.nsf/eStampUNID/UNID-E2D74D6CD50886CF80257BD4005698C4?OpenDocument) which isn't a huge rent for a unit that size, with an ancillary take-away use. That's also before accounting for rent-free and landlord contribution for fit-out, so the net rent would in fact be a bit lower.

It's also highly probable that break clauses have been included in these leases, so these lettings shouldn't be a stumbling block if the new owners (Kennedy Wilson) decided to proceed with any development.

sarah wright

Anyone know what ever happened to the plans for an Aldi in Terenure? The site is still sitting there with no sign of anything happening.

eqwjewoiujqorj

sarah wright wrote: »

Anyone know what ever happened to the plans for an Aldi in Terenure? The site is still sitting there with no sign of anything happening.

Opens 12th December.

They had boards up last time I past by.

Millem

eqwjewoiujqorj wrote: »

Opens 12th December.

They had boards up last time I past by.

Can't wait! I now won't have to go to Nutgrove!

sarah wright

The sign on the boards just mention a security firm though. Might not be anything to do with ALDI. Lisney still have a For Sale sign up over Falks Lighting. I do hope you are right though - would be great not to have to go to Nutgrove.

mackeire

I heard there is one opening up in Sallynoggin, where white and delahunty is.
W&D are moving.

corglass

mackeire wrote: »

I heard there is one opening up in Sallynoggin, where white and delahunty is.
W&D are moving.

Folks I was just reading up on this.

It seems planning was granted (yayyyyy) but permission has now been appealed by Tesco, Dun Laoghaire Shopping Centre and Supervalu. An Bord Pleanála is due to decide on this case by 1st of April 2015.

Anyone know if ABP will accept submissions from locals who support AlDi coming here?

Aard

You can only make submissions at the original planning permission stage -- ie whenever DLR was considering it. Some big retailers just appeal all competition to the board as a matter of course, so I wouldn't be too worried about it having been appealed.

Larbre34

^ Agreed, its no different to coffee sellers appealing another coffee shop in Dalkey, it might be annoying but its a free market, Tesco and Super Valu will always try and contrive some planning related issue but its just a matter of time.

wowy

AFAIK they're appealing on a technicality. The site is zoned appropriately, but the development plan has an objective that a Local Area Plan for Sallynoggin is to be prepared. Tesco etc are appealing on the basis that permission was granted prior to the preparation of a Local Area Plan. Hard to know what ABP will decide; with the big vacant former pub site at the roundabout, ABP might decide it would be best to develop the LAP for the entire area first, rather than proceeding with piecemeal development prior to the LAP. We'll just have to wait and see.

coylemj

Aard wrote: »

Some big retailers just appeal all competition to the board as a matter of course, so I wouldn't be too worried about it having been appealed.

+1 The SuperValu guy in Deansgrange pulled out all the stops to stop the Lidl store opening across the road from him. It was even rumoured that he funded an ad hoc coalition of local residents to lodge an objection but the scheme (joint development of the site with Bank of Ireland) went ahead.

Aard

Considering that the combined observation + appeal costs €240 plus a couple of hours of consultancy, a rival's project could be delayed by several months which would give a huge advantage. It's a bit of a cynical way of doing things, but entirely understandable and to be expected in retail planning permissions.

corglass

Let's hope it goes through. The supermarket should kickstart inward development in the area

Larbre34

wowy wrote: »

AFAIK they're appealing on a technicality. The site is zoned appropriately, but the development plan has an objective that a Local Area Plan for Sallynoggin is to be prepared. Tesco etc are appealing on the basis that permission was granted prior to the preparation of a Local Area Plan. Hard to know what ABP will decide; with the big vacant former pub site at the roundabout, ABP might decide it would be best to develop the LAP for the entire area first, rather than proceeding with piecemeal development prior to the LAP. We'll just have to wait and see.

There are plenty of precedents for developments being permitted ahead of LAPs, if the LAP is so far off that the applicant would be unduly constrained by a forced delay, for instance the expansion of the Frascati Centre has been granted ahead of the final adoption of the Blackrock LAP. I know thats existing use, but the scale involved was very pertinent to an LAP

Aard

I think ABP are pragmatic when it comes to future plans - nobody can be reasonably expected to hang around until the council gets its finger out and establishes an LAP. It could be years; there's no guarantee.

corglass

Folks

Aldi has been officially granted permission by ABP on Friday at the Delahunty and White site.

Yayyy

Linky

crushproof

Good news for DL.

Mad though how every objector was a supermarket.....roll on the competition

ted1

crushproof wrote: »

Good news for DL.

Mad though how every objector was a supermarket.....roll on the competition

That's standard practice, happens in nearly every industry, even helps them negotiate rates

Kingp35

That's great news!

corglass

Anyone know how quickly the stores are usually built from time of grant of planning?

ted1

corglass wrote: »

Anyone know how quickly the stores are usually built from time of grant of planning?

Aldi wouldn't be the fastest builders, taking them a long time to build the one in Terenure.

Larbre34

In other areas they can be fast, I suppose it depends on local ground conditions, access and services. They lashed up the one in Clonee village near where I live.

I would guess they want to tap a rich vein locally asap!

OssianSmyth

I expect that Lidl will now be refused permission at the Deer Hunter site at the Sallynoggin roundabout. I've written something about this here:
ALDI now approved for Sallynoggin - Lidl now unlikely

Aard

I was under the impresion that "discount" supermarkets were no longer a thing in planning terms - ie now no different than regular supermarkets?

Secondly, are ABP allowed refuse Lidl permission solely because Aldi is nearby? Surely if Lidl have a RIA they should be granted permission (assuming other standards are in order)?

OssianSmyth

No huge difference from 2010 county development plan to the new draft plan:

2010 development plan wrote:

Neighbourhood Centres
> These centres usually contain one supermarket
or discount foodstore ranging in size from
1,000-2,500sqm with a limited range of
supporting shops and retail services and
possibly other services such as post offices,
community centres or health clinics grouped
together to create a focus for the local
population. These centres meet the local dayto-day
needs of surrounding residents.

2016 draft development plan wrote:

Neighbourhood Centres
These centres usually contain one supermarket
ranging in size from 1,000-2,500 sq.m. with a
limited range of supporting shops and retail
services and possibly other services such as post
offices, community centres or health clinics
grouped together to create a focus for the local
population. These centres meet the local day-today
needs of surrounding residents.

The retail planning guidelines 2012 suggests a 'small supermarket' for neighbourhood centres without saying exactly how small. The inspector said this was not a small supermarket but doesn't explain why he feels he can ignore the Retail Planning Guidelines.

What the RPG and the CDP share is a reference to 'one supermarket' for neighbourhood centres, so I can't see Lidl getting approved.

Aard

Do you think the Inspector overstepped the mark in his report?

Gotta say that I wouldn't agree with limiting NC's to "one" supermarket. Just gives huge advantage to the first mover, no matter the quality of the product/offering. Unnecessary intervention in competition.

strandroad

So how was Lidl approved for Stillorgan and Deansgrange?

Glencarraig

mhge wrote: »

So how was Lidl approved for Stillorgan and Deansgrange?

Or for Deansgrange and Pottery Road !!

ted1

Glencarraig wrote: »

Or for Deansgrange and Pottery Road !!

The council restricted the size of the stores and parking in deansgrange so LIDL built two.

OssianSmyth

mhge wrote: »

So how was Lidl approved for Stillorgan and Deansgrange?

These are two separate areas. Deansgrange is a neighbourood centre and Stillorgan is a district centre

Glencarraig wrote: »

Or for Deansgrange and Pottery Road !!

The Pottery Road site was zoned E for economic development and employment. When Lidl applied for planning permission in 2005, the 2004 development plan permitted discount supermarkets in brownfield industrial sites. This was revoked in the next development plan in 2010 so would be les likely to be permitted now.

Aard wrote: »

Do you think the Inspector overstepped the mark in his report?

The question is whether he should have followed the newer RPG where it conflicted with the CDP. I would have thought that the RPG as a national guideline would take precedence but I'll have to check that.

Gotta say that I wouldn't agree with limiting NC's to "one" supermarket. Just gives huge advantage to the first mover, no matter the quality of the product/offering. Unnecessary intervention in competition.

There's always a tension between planning and competition.

When I spoke to people in Sallynoggin, several told me that they had two Lidls within range and that they would favour an ALDI for the variety. In practice, having an ALDI or a Lidl in walking distance of your home will cut your food bill when you've only had a Centra convenience store in the past.