2013-4 Heineken Cup Discussion Thread

Grandpa Hassan

[Jackass] wrote: »

They dismantled European rugby because they couldn't compete so couldn't make money, so they rejigged a competition stacked in their favour both competitively and financially, with Wray being the instigator and bully that broke the greatest thing in Northern Hemisphere rugby.

No, I'm not alone for my outrage at the English clubs for what they did and I can guarantee you many, many people around Europe will enjoy seeing them out of the competition without ever challenging... again.

Screw 'em!

You obviously don't understand the context, so ssssshhhhh.

Haha. All that post just deserves is a laugh

thomond2006

English Lurker wrote: »

While not able to completely agree with Jackass (nor utterly disagree either mind), I would dearly love to see Saracens sat down. A more loathsome club I cannot imagine.

Very refreshing to read this EL!

phog

Interesting tweet

ERC Rugby (@ercrugby) tweeted at 2:17 PM on Sun, Apr 06, 2014:

If @RCTofficiel beat @leinsterrugby in the 4th #HeinekenCup today it will mean the semi-finals of 2014 will have the same 4 teams as 2013.

errlloyd

I've heard Henson was class in the first half of Bath brive. Anyone watching

thomond2006

Hopefully next year teams won't be naming second teams in the second tier knockouts. It's a joke.

Artful_Badger

errlloyd wrote: »

I've heard Henson was class in the first half of Bath brive. Anyone watching

Watched a bit of it, Bath were slaughtering them. All I seen of Henson was him putting a guy through on the outside with a flat skip pass which led to a try. Was a pretty good pass in fairness.

Brive weren't up to much though by the looks of it.

CatFromHue

39-0 to Bath with 15min to go!

irishbucsfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Hopefully next year teams won't be naming second teams in the second tier knockouts. It's a joke.

I don't know if there'd be a huge difference. The quality of the teams in the knockouts will be quite similar. Depends on how much money is in there for meritocracy I'd imagine.

errlloyd

Henson won man of the match....

CatFromHue

so there'll be an english winner of the amlin then

former legend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Hopefully next year teams won't be naming second teams in the second tier knockouts. It's a joke.

The fact that this year's champions won't qualify for the top tier devalues it even more.

I can't see future versions being any better tbh.

.ak

Don't know how banahan or abendanon didn't get it.

Lacey didn't seem bothered today. He literally let anything go at the breakdown. Made for a good game of sevens though.

awec

Lacey being poor? There's a shock.

I don't think he's much use at all tbh.

The Lost Sheep

awec wrote: »

Lacey being poor? There's a shock.

I don't think he's much use at all tbh.

I disagree. Johnny is good. Better referee than his full time job as a branch development officer

.ak

awec wrote: »

Lacey being poor? There's a shock.

I don't think he's much use at all tbh.

I know you don't rate him because or the pro12 final but I actually think he's a good ref.

irishbucsfan

Potentially really good game coming up, Wasps/Gloucester.

former legend

So Toulon are now favourites at 11/8 followed by Clermont, Sarries and Munster.

Probably fair enough?

.ak

Yep. Although I reckon it'll be a Toulon-Sarries final. Clermont looked a little shakey and Sarries probably know how to beat them now.

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

Yep. Although I reckon it'll be a Toulon-Sarries final. Clermont looked a little shakey and Sarries probably know how to beat them now.

As I read elsewhere, Sarries having Zebre and Connacht in their pool, losing home & away to Toulouse, and narrowly defeating a 14-men Ulster hardly makes them worthy finalists. Hopefully Munster v Clermont for me.

Eod100

former legend wrote: »

So Toulon are now favourites at 11/8 followed by Clermont, Sarries and Munster.

Probably fair enough?

Checked the odds earlier before the game, Toulon were 3/1 with Munster 5.1. Munster have drifted to 11/2.

Molester Stallone

Munsters odds have drifted became of Toulons performance. I'm looking at the other semi final & thinking we'd beat either Sarries or Clermont.

Micky Dolenz

Munster can travel to Toulon and be confident of a win.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Munster can travel to Toulon and be confident of a win.

no we can not

Micky Dolenz

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

no we can not

How else do you think the squad will face it?

Ye of little faith.

thomond2006

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

no we can not

They will after they back themselves at 3/1!!!

former legend

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Munster can travel to Toulon and be confident of a win.

Optimistic yes. Confident no.

Pedantry: the game is in Marseilles.

captbarnacles

Ref will be key. Someone like Joubert will ping them constantly for not rolling away.

neilmulvey

captbarnacles wrote: »

Ref will be key. Someone like Joubert will ping them constantly for not rolling away.

Owens or Barnes.

Buer

captbarnacles wrote: »

Ref will be key. Someone like Joubert will ping them constantly for not rolling away.

It will be an ERC referee.

captbarnacles

Oh ok. Hope Owens gets it. Best ref around imo.

irishbucsfan

It depends on who is selected for the Sarries-Clermont game. That can't be Barnes, Garces or Poite so it'll be Owens or Rolland. If it's Rolland then I think it'll be Owens for the Munster game. Possibly also likely that Owens will be in London while Barnes goes to France.

Riskymove

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It depends on who is selected for the Sarries-Clermont game. That can't be Barnes, Garces or Poite so it'll be Owens or Rolland. If it's Rolland then I think it'll be Owens for the Munster game. Possibly also likely that Owens will be in London while Barnes goes to France.

Rolland (for what could be his last game) and Owens are the obvious choices with Barnes the next option for the Munster game

.ak

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It depends on who is selected for the Sarries-Clermont game. That can't be Barnes, Garces or Poite so it'll be Owens or Rolland. If it's Rolland then I think it'll be Owens for the Munster game. Possibly also likely that Owens will be in London while Barnes goes to France.

Can't see Owens getting to ref Munster twice in a row. But then again I can't see Barnes reffing Toulon twice either.

Buer

.ak wrote: »

Can't see Owens getting to ref Munster twice in a row. But then again I can't see Barnes reffing Toulon twice either.

I don't think that comes into play, much. In 2009, he had all three of Leinster's knock out games.

Riskymove

.ak wrote: »

Can't see Owens getting to ref Munster twice in a row. But then again I can't see Barnes reffing Toulon twice either.

don't really think that's an issue

Molester Stallone

Rolland is my guess.

irishbucsfan

Riskymove wrote: »

Rolland (for what could be his last game) and Owens are the obvious choices with Barnes the next option for the Munster game

Rolland is probably the weakest of the three, but as you said it's his last season so that might give him an edge. Also I think his French would be pretty valuable, as would Barnes' I suppose.

Cookiemunster

Buer wrote: »

I don't think that comes into play, much. In 2009, he had all three of Leinster's knock out games.

And all three of Munsters in 2008. Bring on Nigel

.ak

Buer wrote: »

I don't think that comes into play, much. In 2009, he had all three of Leinster's knock out games.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And all three of Munsters in 2008. Bring on Nigel

Wow, that's a mad statistic.

the perfect ten

thomond2006 wrote: »

Hopefully next year teams won't be naming second teams in the second tier knockouts. It's a joke.

It's not a joke if you do it because you are trying to qualify for the new version of the Heineken Cup next season.

This was certainly Stade's motivation for putting out a second string team against Harlequins. Stade have to go to Bayonne at the weekend in a must win game for both sides.

I would expect any of the Irish provinces to do exactly the same thing.

thomond2006

the perfect ten wrote: »

It's not a joke if you do it because you are trying to qualify for the new version of the Heineken Cup next season.

This was certainly Stade's motivation for putting out a second string team against Harlequins. Stade have to go to Bayonne at the weekend in a must win game for both sides.

I would expect any of the Irish provinces to do exactly the same thing.

Both Munster and Leinster have named full sides in the Amlin I think? Munster definitely did anyway!

I understood Stade doing it because their first team is in freefall and needed a break and/or a look at other faces to bring in.

I dunno, it's a shame it happens! I can understand that it's not an easy problem to fix.

connemara man

thomond2006 wrote: »

Both Munster and Leinster have named full sides in the Amlin I think? Munster definitely did anyway!

I understood Stade doing it because their first team is in freefall and needed a break and/or a look at other faces to bring in.

I dunno, it's a shame it happens! I can understand that it's not an easy problem to fix.

Actually I think it's an easy fix give the winner of the Amlin qualification into the Heineken cup and then full teams will more than likely be played

who_me

Funny how the QFs worked out - all the 'more successful' European sides lost. The losing 4 had 10 European Cups between them, the winning 4 have just 3.

I would say it's indicative of a "changing of the guard", though it's made stranger in that it's the same four semi-finalists as last year.

Tox56

who_me wrote: »

Funny how the QFs worked out - all the 'more successful' European sides lost. The losing 4 had 10 European Cups between them, the winning 4 have just 3.

I would say it's indicative of a "changing of the guard", though it's made stranger in that it's the same four semi-finalists as last year.

The only losing side on a real downward curve was Leinster, both Toulouse and Leicester have been average (or rather, below their historic heights) for a while now, and Ulster were the up and coming side

Neoulous

The problem with the Amlin Cup is that it's already a joke of a competition. Promoted teams get to play the group stage! I never got that. And the "best losers" of the H Cup group stage get to play the second rounds. Such heterogeneity can't be good. I also never understood why there's no selection to play it from the main championships. The message is really wrong there. Basically what the Amlin Cup is saying is if you're not good enough to play the big Cup, whatever your domestic league position, you can play the Amlin. Levelling downwards. If the point is to give european experience to small teams then resuscitate some newer version of the European Shield. But the way it is now is just a farce.

CatFromHue

I think the 3 runners up from the HEC going to the QF's of the Amlin is to help maintain competitiveness in the HEC and not just boost interest in the Amlin (which it also does).

irishbucsfan

From next season there will only be 5 groups in the H Cup and only 2 teams dropping down into the Amlin (if any, that hasn't been mentioned really but I assume they will). That leaves 5 groups in the Amlin with best runner up qualifying I guess? Or maybe there'll be no teams dropping down and it'll just be 3 best runners up in the Amlin quarter final.

BoarHunter

.ak wrote: »

Wow, that's a mad statistic.

Everybody knows that actually just so that you hate Toulon even more, Boudjelal wrote a letter to the ERC prior to the 1/4 Final and stated he didn't want to see Owens ref the match. They got Barnes ...
Owens is well known to be called Nigel "Paddy" Owens after all, ha ha !

I myself remember that Ireland - France match in Croker in 2009....

I think an English ref is the obvious choice.

molloyjh

BoarHunter wrote: »

Boudjelal wrote a letter to the ERC prior to the 1/4 Final and stated he didn't want to see Owens ref the match.

Ah he's always moaning about refs. Sure wasn't he then claiming that Barnes was biased towards Leinster then too. It's bad enough he can buy his way to the top the way he has, but to have the cheek to then complain about anything and everything on the way just makes him harder and harder to have any time for.

link_2007

Probably the best place to ask this - Does anyone know when they will release the date for the final for the 2015 Heineken Cup? The last few years it has been the 3rd/4th Saturday of May so I assume it will be similar next year?