2013-4 Heineken Cup Discussion Thread

Kiwi_knock

Vern Cotter and Scotland seem like a match made in Heaven.

thomond2006

French commentators are in mourning.

"Calvary"

"Stations of the Cross"

Grandpa Hassan

Christ. This has been like the Saracens training ground for the last 20 minutes

Micky Dolenz

46 - 6 FT.

Sarries were Brilliant. Clermont stopped playing for a finish.

Podge_irl

Robot Rabbit wrote: »

Commentators almost frothing with enthusiasm about Saracens to be "Champions of Europe". They're going to be eating their hats come the final.

Could you imagine the ****e we'd be hearing if Munster hammered Clermont by this much in a semi??

[Jackass]

That was sad (in an emotional sort of way).

Almost as depressed as I would be seeing Leinster lose, I guess I've gotten pretty attached to Clermont and their fans the many times I've met them. End of an era for a great team and a great club, and you can't help but feel that that magnificent group of players and coach didn't achieve all that they deserved to achieve.

Swiwi.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Could you imagine the ****e we'd be hearing if Munster hammered Clermont by this much in a semi??

I agree with danthefan. Didn't see much of the 1st half, but Saracens wiped the floor with Clermont in the 2nd, and credit where credit is due they looked very good. Can only play what's put in front of you, and that was a victory built on defence. French teams do seem to lack guile on attack though, you can't rely on Fijian magic as the main tactic.

razorblunt

Went for a shower at 26-6 ....

danthefan

razorblunt wrote: »

Went for a shower at 26-6 ....

You missed at least one superb try in that case.

Heroditas

Swiwi. wrote: »

I agree with danthefan. Didn't see much of the 1st half, but Saracens wiped the floor with Clermont in the 2nd, and credit where credit is due they looked very good. Can only play what's put in front of you, and that was a victory built on defence. French teams do seem to lack guile on attack though, you can't rely on Fijian magic as the main tactic.

Clermont played right into their hands with brainless tactics and then eventually waved the white flag.
Awful to watch and sums up Cotter's reign there.

Fireball07

We'll beat them lot. If we get over Toulon.

Yogosan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Could you imagine the ****e we'd be hearing if Munster hammered Clermont by this much in a semi??

The commentators might be frothing at the mouth, but I doubt the fans would. Munster trounced Toulouse a few weeks ago, yet not a single Munster fan is using that as an indiator that we might beat Toulon, because Toulouse were so poor.

Davei141

Yogosan wrote: »

The commentators might be frothing at the mouth, but I doubt the fans would. Munster trounced Toulouse a few weeks ago, yet not a single Munster fan is using that as an indiator that we might beat Toulon, because Toulouse were so poor.

Clermont are way better than Toulouse.

Yogosan

Davei141 wrote: »

Clermont are way better than Toulouse.

On paper, yes. But any team that puts in a performane like that will be hammered.

Micky Dolenz

Davei141 wrote: »

Clermont are way better than Toulouse.

Don't know if they are way better, esp after todays performance. Pretty sure both sides have beaten each other this season in the Top 14

dtpc191991

Heroditas wrote: »

Clermont played right into their hands with brainless tactics and then eventually waved the white flag.
Awful to watch and sums up Cotter's reign there.

Yes I'm beginning to question wether he will be able to shape something out of the Scots.

Swiwi.

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Yes I'm beginning to question wether he will be able to shape something out of the Scots.

I don't think an amalgam of Schmidt, Hansen, Superman and God could shape something there. Ok, maybe God.

I do wish Scotland were just a bit better. Regardless, Samoa will have my vote in the SA/Scot/Samoa pool next year.

Aidric

Robot Rabbit wrote: »

Commentators almost frothing with enthusiasm about Saracens to be "Champions of Europe". They're going to be eating their hats come the final.

Who was commentating? Miles Harrison or Mark Robson?

phog

Ulster must be thinking " what if"

Clermont looked very beatable today.

Heroditas

dtpc191991 wrote: »

Yes I'm beginning to question wether he will be able to shape something out of the Scots.

Nah. If you look at the talent he's had at his disposal at Clermont and what they've achieved, he won't be doing much (with the greatest of respect to Scotland) at Murrayfield.

Fireball07

phog wrote: »

Ulster must be thinking " what if"

Clermont looked very beatable today.

Beatable?


They looked beaten.

Buer

phog wrote: »

Ulster must be thinking " what if"

Clermont looked very beatable today.

Completely unsurprising. They peaked last season if not the year before. This was Ulster's year.

Clermont are too old to dominate.

CatFromHue

The ESPN stats from this game are very impressive for Saracens.

They made 193 tackles and ended up with only 32% and 36% possession and territory.

I think there may be a bit of underestimating of Saracens here. Clermont may not be what they used to be but still ended up as 2nd seed for the QF's.

bilston

phog wrote: »

Ulster must be thinking " what if"

Clermont looked very beatable today.

Pretty much!!

Tox56

CatFromHue wrote: »

The ESPN stats from this game are very impressive for Saracens.

They made 193 tackles and ended up with only 32% and 36% possession and territory.

I think there may be a bit of underestimating of Saracens here. Clermont may not be what they used to be but still ended up as 2nd seed for the QF's.

No doubting Saracens were like a machine in defence and had a lot of flair in attack but that is a shadow of the Clermont team Leinster played in that semi in 2012

Buer

Tox56 wrote: »

No doubting Saracens were like a machine in defence and had a lot of flair in attack but that is a shadow of the Clermont team Leinster played in that semi in 2012

Very true. Depressingmy, any season is a snapshot of where everyone is on any given year

Wasps 2004 against Leinster 2012 would be a battle of the greatest ever.

Heroditas

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think there may be a bit of underestimating of Saracens here. Clermont may not be what they used to be but still ended up as 2nd seed for the QF's.

Saracens are an extremely well drilled team and have some fine individuals sprinkled through it.

However, Clermont just did not look like a well drilled side today. Completely wrong gameplan and relying far too much on a spark from individuals who sadly look to be on a downward slope.
Sadly, it's the story of Clermont's history. They flatter to deceive but always fold in the big games.

bilston

Saracens are actually a good side and despite a bit of help with one and maybe two decisions in the first half they were good value for their win. They played some good stuff today.

I say that begrudgingly as I don't like them as a club, their one redeeming feature is Mark McCall.

CatFromHue

bilston wrote: »

Saracens are actually a good side and despite a bit of help with one and maybe two decisions in the first half they were good value for their win. They played some good stuff today.

I say that begrudgingly as I don't like them as a club, their one redeeming feature is Mark McCall.

They really are.

They're 9pts clear of 2nd, 16pts clear of 3rd, and 22pts clear of 5th in the Aviva.

They've already achieved more league points (80) than any team since 02/03 and have 2 games left to play. One more win and they'll break the record.

OldRio

Which makes it more the galling when you look at the Ulster match.

OldRio

The attendance Sarries v Clermont 25,000

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/10790562/Saracenss-Heineken-Cup-victory-over-Clermont-Auvergne-deserved-bigger-Twickenham-crowd.html

Nice mention for Munster.

mfceiling

I was working yesterday and missed all the sports results until i sat down last night.

I have to admit when i saw the sarries result i got a small bit sick in my mouth.

molloyjh

In the airport on the way home after joining a bunch of Clermont mates for the game yesterday. Fairly hungover. God that was an awful display and I really felt for their fans. For me the problem lay in their kicking game. They kicked so badly in the opening quarter that they just stopped kicking thereafter really. That made the defensive job far easier for Sarries as they didn't have to cover in behind as much. But Sarries were very good value for ther win in fairness to them. Their defensive organisation was very, very good even if Clermont did make it easy on them.

I've also said it before about Cotter, he just can't motivate a squad of players or get them in the right mindset. His reaction after the HEC final last year said it all. Naming and shaming members of the team publicly is just not on. How can a team operate under a guy like that? Him leaving I really believe will be a good thing for Clermont. Sadly with their age profile as it is I don't know if the incoming coach will be able to do much better.

We had a Sarries couple in front of us for the game who were lovely, but an English mate who was several rows back was saying there was a bunch of them shouting all sorts of racist abuse at Clermont players and fans. Pretty disgusting stuff from them really. No wonder all the non-Sarries English fans I met were cheering for Clermont! There was also absolutely no interaction between the sets of fans on the day at all too which was strange. Although we did avoid the likes of the Cabbage Patch after so maybe I just missed it.

iroced

I don't know how much the toughness of the Top14 can afford for it but I think there is something wrong with Clermont physical preparation. It's now 2-3 years in a row where they finish the season completely worn out. They should "calculate" their physical preparation to peak now, when it really matters.

That is something Toulon or Toulouse in the past are/were doing very well.

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

In the airport on the way home after joining a bunch of Clermont mates for the game yesterday. Fairly hungover. God that was an awful display and I really felt for their fans. For me the problem lay in their kicking game. They kicked so badly in the opening quarter that they just stopped kicking thereafter really. That made the defensive job far easier for Sarries as they didn't have to cover in behind as much. But Sarries were very good value for ther win in fairness to them. Their defensive organisation was very, very good even if Clermont did make it easy on them.

I've also said it before about Cotter, he just can't motivate a squad of players or get them in the right mindset. His reaction after the HEC final last year said it all. Naming and shaming members of the team publicly is just not on. How can a team operate under a guy like that? Him leaving I really believe will be a good thing for Clermont. Sadly with their age profile as it is I don't know if the incoming coach will be able to do much better.

We had a Sarries couple in front of us for the game who were lovely, but an English mate who was several rows back was saying there was a bunch of them shouting all sorts of racist abuse at Clermont players and fans. Pretty disgusting stuff from them really. No wonder all the non-Sarries English fans I met were cheering for Clermont! There was also absolutely no interaction between the sets of fans on the day at all too which was strange. Although we did avoid the likes of the Cabbage Patch after so maybe I just missed it.

That's it exactly. I was watching the match with my missus (who I reckon actually prefers Clermont over Leinster at this stage!) and she was going mad at the telly, screaming 'Why don't they just kick the ball!?' and I have to agree, Goode, Strettle and Ashton all punished them with their loose kicks in the first half, the only player who was kicking sweetly was Parra but he was only squeezing them out in panic situations.

Have to say it was a bit of a mirror image of the Ulster game last season. They absolutely murdered them on any loose ball, forcing them to play a tight game around the corners and that just plays into Sarries hands who are probably the most aggressive defensive side in Europe right now.

razorblunt

danthefan wrote: »

You missed at least one superb try in that case.

Caught it afterwards, Tip of the hat to them!

Stev_o

iroced wrote: »

I don't know how much the toughness of the Top14 can afford for it but I think there is something wrong with Clermont physical preparation. It's now 2-3 years in a row where they finish the season completely worn out. They should "calculate" their physical preparation to peak now, when it really matters.

That is something Toulon or Toulouse in the past are/were doing very well.

That or they are a very one dimensional team who's biggest strength is their home advantage. Look at their pack and tell me where the dynamism is coming from? It's extremely long in the tooth and can only play one way. I don't think there is a player there who people would have first choice in the main Irish provinces.

sydthebeat

iroced wrote: »

I don't know how much the toughness of the Top14 can afford for it but I think there is something wrong with Clermont physical preparation. It's now 2-3 years in a row where they finish the season completely worn out. They should "calculate" their physical preparation to peak now, when it really matters.

That is something Toulon or Toulouse in the past are/were doing very well.

One of the main "reasons" given for the Jekyll and Hyde home and away performances you see in the top 14 Is that they are trying to save themselves for the business end of the season. The reason ASM falter at this stage over the last few seasons is the age profile of the team imho.

CatFromHue

I'm not sure if age comes into it.

I just don't think they're ultimately good enough. Leicester pushed them hard in the QF's and Quins gave them two good games in the pool stages. Saracens, as shown by the Aviva table, are a good bit better than those two teams.

Tomtom364

Wasps vs Bath Amlin semi final is a great game so far xD

errlloyd

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Wasps vs Bath Amlin semi final is a great game so far xD

Think it just ended.

Micky Dolenz

Loving Johnsons hair

Exciting game alright.

errlloyd

Drama!!!

matthew8

Yeah it's quite a nice game, although 3 of Bath's 4 tries were directly from lineouts.

matthew8

Are they really allowed go that far back?

errlloyd

A wasps coach, seems to have told Andy goode about a knock on, a few phases before a the try. Goode asked Poite to check, Poite has overruled his try.

Debate starts now.

matthew8

Bath would have been much better not scoring. They had a penalty right in front to go 2 scores ahead and it wouldn't have been checked.

errlloyd

Oh matt banahan. Hold that intercept yours a hero

errlloyd

Eastmonde should have got a second yellow for his reaction to the first.

phog

Bath hold off a Wasps comeback of sorts.