NDLS - National Driver Licence Service centres (Qs, waiting times, etc)

aaakev

Del2005 wrote: »

Bit late now but when you knew you where going away it would have been better to apply when you returned, they always took the old licence and used to just give you a receipt.

Going on honeymoon, only booked it yesterday so never even thought! First time renewing the licence too so wasn't to know unfortunately. ....

Topper Harley

OP, I'd call the rental company in advance and explain the situation and hopefully something can be worked out.

If you have your driver number, receipt of new license, photo ID and ideally a photocopy of your old driving license maybe something could be done.

There may be some security reason not to do this but I've found it useful to always have a scan of my licenses and passports on my laptop which I can just print out in an emergency if I can find the originals. Obviously they can't be used in place of the originals but it's handy for the details and when combined with the documents mentioned above would be better than nothing.

Del2005

Topper Harley wrote: »

OP, I'd call the rental company in advance and explain the situation and hopefully something can be worked out.

If you have your driver number, receipt of new license, photo ID and ideally a photocopy of your old driving license maybe something could be done.

There may be some security reason not to do this but I've found it useful to always have a scan of my licenses and passports on my laptop which I can just print out in an emergency if I can find the originals. Obviously they can't be used in place of the originals but it's handy for the details and when combined with the documents mentioned above would be better than nothing.

Most countries require the driver to carry their drivers license when driving and I'd be worried about possible insurance issues.

Del2005

aaakev wrote: »

Going on honeymoon, only booked it yesterday so never even thought! First time renewing the licence too so wasn't to know unfortunately. ....

Does the better half have a licence?

CiniO

Topper Harley wrote: »

I'm surprised they were able to do this.

Well I was surprised as well, but they were.
Manager told me that I was here few hours ago, and I was asking to apply for new licence without submitting old one as I wanted to keep it (which was true).
Based on it, he said I was lying to the fact I lost my licence, and therefore he is not going to proceed the application, and he didn't forget to mention that I'm an immigrant and I should respect Irish laws if I want to live here.
He had absolutely no proof that I was lying in saying that I lost my licence as few hours ago when I was there, I didn't show it to anyone (maybe it was lost already).
I remember that scene very well even though it was few years ago, as this left a real big bad impression on me on dealing with public servants here.

dingding

Topper Harley wrote: »

OP, I'd call the rental company in advance and explain the situation and hopefully something can be worked out.

If you have your driver number, receipt of new license, photo ID and ideally a photocopy of your old driving license maybe something could be done.

There may be some security reason not to do this but I've found it useful to always have a scan of my licenses and passports on my laptop which I can just print out in an emergency if I can find the originals. Obviously they can't be used in place of the originals but it's handy for the details and when combined with the documents mentioned above would be better than nothing.

Also saving a copy on a cloud drive such as Dropbox is very handy as well

aaakev

Del2005 wrote: »

Does the better half have a licence?

Learners permit. .......

BreadnBuddha

CiniO wrote: »

Well I was surprised as well, but they were.
Manager told me that I was here few hours ago, and I was asking to apply for new licence without submitting old one as I wanted to keep it (which was true).
Based on it, he said I was lying to the fact I lost my licence, and therefore he is not going to proceed the application, and he didn't forget to mention that I'm an immigrant and I should respect Irish laws if I want to live here.
He had absolutely no proof that I was lying in saying that I lost my licence as few hours ago when I was there, I didn't show it to anyone (maybe it was lost already).
I remember that scene very well even though it was few years ago, as this left a real big bad impression on me on dealing with public servants here.

So, let me just make sure I'm understanding you correctly here:

You walk in asking for an Irish license under the exchange of license provision for EU citizens, and tell them that you want to keep your old license too.

They tell you no, so you leave and come back a few hours later saying you've lost your old license, in an attempt to pull the wool over their eyes and abuse the system, perhaps even allowing you have an Irish license to present at home and a foreign license to present while in Ireland if you so wished.. Maybe. Whatever your reasons..

You don't get away with it, get caught lying, then get a big bad impression on dealing with public servants here.

Am I understanding all that correctly? And somehow they're the ones making inappropriate casual remarks about how an immigrant should respect Irish laws if they wish to live here?

Pal, you're a clever guy, but you should never assume Irish civil servants are fools. You might have a strong grasp of many pieces of Irish legislation when it comes to motoring law but none of that can hide the fact you got caught out by someone doing their job better than you could tell a lie.

OP / Kev, drop back into the NDLS and bring a copy of your car rental agreement or booking and your flight booking. These people are doing what the rulebook says they're to do but they're human too and will be able to help you if they can see clearly you're being honest and need them to do something a little differently in your case. People like to help, you just have to show them you're genuine and really do need them to do something for you for a good reason. If the person on the desk says they can't help, thank them and let them know you're happy they're doing all they can and that maybe if you speak with their manager they might get the go ahead to do something differently. Just make sure the desk clerk knows you're not blaming them or looking for a head on a stick. Civil servants deal with some real dicks every day so when someone's just honest, polite and decent, they're usually happy to oblige if there's any way they can, even the narky ones who seem like they don't care.

pred racer

aaakev wrote: »

so I just renewed my licence as I got the form in the post last Friday and my licence expires on the 19th of next month. At the end I asked for my old licence back and was told they keep it. I asked why and was told they have been told to keep them.

Now I fly out on holidays on the 10th which is 6 working days away and have been told the new licence takes 10 working days to come!

Is this normal practice in the centres as I was told?

Does anyone know if a copy of my current licence and receipt for the new one will be sufficient for the rental car company?

this happened to me last year, and the rental companies (i tried them all)
would not rent me a car without my actual licence.
I even got an international licence which didnt help atall.

markpb

Topper Harley wrote: »

I'm surprised they were able to do this. When I lost my license years ago, I had to get a Garda to stamp the form declaring it lost. Surely this should override someone in the tax office's opinion that you didn't really lose it.

The only reason the Guarda stamps it is to certify that you signed the form. It doesn't lend any weight or credibility to the fact that it's lost - how could a Guard know if it was actually lost?

In fact, it does the opposite. If you are later found to have been lying, it means you signed a sworn statement which was untrue and could land you in a *lot* of trouble. The stamp is supposed to verify that it was you who lied to the state and stops you from later claiming that someone else filled out the form fraudulently.

It might have seemed like a clever thing to do at the time but it was really stupid. The penalties for lying to the state can be steep.

CiniO

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

So, let me just make sure I'm understanding you correctly here:

You walk in asking for an Irish license under the exchange of license provision for EU citizens, and tell them that you want to keep your old license too.

No, you don't understand me correctly here.
I didn't ask for exchange of foreign licence.
I held Irish licence for at least 5 years at that point, and I passed a driving test (here in Ireland) for another category (trucks) and to be able to drive trucks, I needed to apply for new licence which would include new category.
I was asked to submit my current licence and wait for few months without holding a licence (document) which I needed for work purposes (driving abroad) - I don't know how would I explain to my boss that I couldn't drive for him as I had to give my licence for few months to motortax office.

They tell you no, so you leave and come back a few hours later saying you've lost your old license,

Yes, that's correct.

in an attempt to pull the wool over their eyes and abuse the system,

Well that's only your guess, the same as theirs.
No one could know if I was telling the truth or lying saying that I lost my licence. Maybe I really lost it. On my first visit there I never took my licence off my wallet, so maybe it was gone then already.

perhaps even allowing you have an Irish license to present at home and a foreign license to present while in Ireland if you so wished.. Maybe. Whatever your reasons..

You are coming up with a story which is not true.
If I was trying to pull a wool over their eyes, that would be only for a reason to override a stupid system, that would force me to loose my job and not be able to drive for few months legally.

You don't get away with it, get caught lying, then get a big bad impression on dealing with public servants here.

Wrong again - I didn't get caught lying.
To be caught lying you need a proof.
All I did was I came to motortax office with statement signed by a gard stating that I lost my licence.
How on earth I got caught lying?
Possibly I really lost my licence.

Am I understanding all that correctly? And somehow they're the ones making inappropriate casual remarks about how an immigrant should respect Irish laws if they wish to live here?

Exactly, they are the ones making inappropriate casual remarks.

And believe me - I respect Irish law and obey it.

Pal, you're a clever guy, but you should never assume Irish civil servants are fools. You might have a strong grasp of many pieces of Irish legislation when it comes to motoring law but none of that can hide the fact you got caught out by someone doing their job better than you could tell a lie.

Again the same - I didn't get caught on anything.
I was just refused, purely on motortax manager suspision that I was lying, without any proofs.
Do you really believe that public servants should act like that.

OP / Kev, drop back into the NDLS and bring a copy of your car rental agreement or booking and your flight booking. These people are doing what the rulebook says they're to do but they're human too and will be able to help you if they can see clearly you're being honest and need them to do something a little differently in your case. People like to help, you just have to show them you're genuine and really do need them to do something for you for a good reason. If the person on the desk says they can't help, thank them and let them know you're happy they're doing all they can and that maybe if you speak with their manager they might get the go ahead to do something differently.

Believe me - they won't. They might be human but even if they wanted to help, they couldn't.
Problem is usually they don't want to help, like it was in my case.
At those times, they had a facility to issue licence on the spot. After me explaining the reasons why I needed it, they said it was impossible.

markpb

pred racer wrote: »

this happened to me last year, and the rental companies (i tried them all)
would not rent me a car without my actual licence.
I even got an international licence which didnt help atall.

An international driving licence is just a translation of your actual license, it's convenient for anyone wanting to read it abroad. It has no legal bearing at all, just words on paper.

I think the OP is going to struggle to find a rental company that will waive the requirement to have a license. Pleading with NDLS is probably their best bet even if it has little chances of success.

BreadnBuddha

CiniO wrote: »

No, you don't understand me correctly here.

Fair enough. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Still, you say you respect and follow Irish laws, yet you made a false report in a Garda station that you'd lost your license and went back to the NDLS/Motor tax office, with the 'lost' license in your pocket or wallet, to try to get around the system. I'm not for a moment saying it's not a dumb assed system but there are ways to work the system and ways to have it lock down on you.

If you needed your driving license for work while waiting on a new license with an additional category added the way to do it would have been to walk up to the counter the first time and explain that to the person there. You could have told them that you'd come and collect it in person once it was ready and that you'd surrender your original license at that time in order to collect the new expanded license. That's exactly how this works. Fact. Lying about having lost an official government issued document, hours after telling them you wanted to keep your existing license, I'm guessing at the same time arguing with them that it was a stupid system that made no sense and they were wrong to ask for your license now, then later on expecting to hide behind them needing some kind of proof and just to have the protections that are in place for these kinds of documentation being abused is just foolish.

It's a crap system. I fully agree. Picking a fight or argument with a civil servant when it comes to needing them to do something for you is just the wrong way to go about it. Being genuinely polite, calm and simply asking for their help and understanding is the way you get them to act like people instead of civil servants. Any kind of officious approach and you'll get their backs up and get nowhere with them. I've had 20 years of dealing with them including last minute passport renewals, even realising I'd lost my passport only 24 hours before I was to go abroad to get married. I had a replacement within 6 hours and only because I didn't make out it was their fault, their problem or their obligation to help. The people you ask nicely will either help or you try someone else. Somebody there in that office will do the right thing and get a license for Kev in time, he just needs to find the person who can see he's not taking the piss and trying to get one over on them.

Topper Harley

markpb wrote: »

The only reason the Guarda stamps it is to certify that you signed the form. It doesn't lend any weight or credibility to the fact that it's lost - how could a Guard know if it was actually lost?

In fact, it does the opposite. If you are later found to have been lying, it means you signed a sworn statement which was untrue and could land you in a *lot* of trouble. The stamp is supposed to verify that it was you who lied to the state and stops you from later claiming that someone else filled out the form fraudulently.

It might have seemed like a clever thing to do at the time but it was really stupid. The penalties for lying to the state can be steep.

That's fair enough. I actually thought the Guards took your licence info in case it showed up being used for less than legal purposes and hence were signing the form as if to say they're happy that it checks out. I thought they signed off on my one without any fuss because I seemed trustworthy but it appears that fact was irrelevant, if true.

And just for the record, I actually had lost my licence and it wasn't till a couple of years later that the original showed up when moving house.

CiniO

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Fair enough. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Still, you say you respect and follow Irish laws, yet you made a false report in a Garda station that you'd lost your license and went back to the NDLS/Motor tax office, with the 'lost' license in your pocket or wallet, to try to get around the system.

Heh, that's only your personal guess on that.
I never said that was the case. I could have as well really loose my licence...

I'm not for a moment saying it's not a dumb assed system but there are ways to work the system and ways to have it lock down on you.

System was not dumb assed.
It was completely ridiculous.
It was about 4 months waiting for new licence without a document in hand, while in some other counties, you could get a licence within few days, or even on the spot.
It was in short a system which would prevent a normal person from normal everyday existence in society.
It's much better now with NDLS where waiting times for a licence are around 10 days not 4 months.
Still I think there should be an option for people who need that, to surrender old licence only when new is ready. Makes perfect sense, resolves the problem, and costs nothing.

If you needed your driving license for work while waiting on a new license with an additional category added the way to do it would have been to walk up to the counter the first time and explain that to the person there. You could have told them that you'd come and collect it in person once it was ready and that you'd surrender your original license at that time in order to collect the new expanded license. That's exactly how this works.

Well, I'm very glad you said that.
That was exactly my thinking, and that was exactly what I did.
Unfortunately, instead of my case being resolved, I got a rude answer from a lady by the counter, who in short said this can not be done. She asked if I'm surrendering my old licence and if not to move over quick, as there are other people waiting. All in very rude manner.

Fact. Lying about having lost an official government issued document, hours after telling them you wanted to keep your existing license,

Fact that I was telling that I want to keep existing licence, doesn't mean I was aware it was lost then. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. They couldn't know it.

I'm guessing at the same time arguing with them that it was a stupid system that made no sense and they were wrong to ask for your license now, then later on expecting to hide behind them needing some kind of proof and just to have the protections that are in place for these kinds of documentation being abused is just foolish.

I wasn't really arguing. At least not at the beginning.

It's a crap system. I fully agree. Picking a fight or argument with a civil servant when it comes to needing them to do something for you is just the wrong way to go about it. Being genuinely polite, calm and simply asking for their help and understanding is the way you get them to act like people instead of civil servants.

As I said I tried it and it didn't work.

Any kind of officious approach and you'll get their backs up and get nowhere with them. I've had 20 years of dealing with them including last minute passport renewals, even realising I'd lost my passport only 24 hours before I was to go abroad to get married. I had a replacement within 6 hours and only because I didn't make out it was their fault, their problem or their obligation to help. The people you ask nicely will either help or you try someone else. Somebody there in that office will do the right thing and get a license for Kev in time, he just needs to find the person who can see he's not taking the piss and trying to get one over on them.

I don't believe NDLS will be able to do anything for Kev.
I'm happy for you that you were lucky enough to get your cases sorted in emergency.
But believe me - not everyone does, and I'd guess most don't, no matter how polite they are and no matter how gentle they ask.

Stheno

@ op they can't do anything in their local offices but you could try ringing their head office and seeing if they can expedite it for you

cantdecide

Stheno wrote: »

@ op they can't do anything in their local offices but you could try ringing their head office and seeing if they can expedite it for you

There might be plans an express service in the future but it's not there at present.

Marcusm

CiniO wrote: »

Which is not the way is should be done.

Why on earth should you not be expected to surrender your own licence to get a new one?

CiniO

Marcusm wrote: »

Why on earth should you not be expected to surrender your own licence to get a new one?

Of course you should be expected to surrender old licence to get a new one.

The thing is, you should not be expected to surrender it, 4 months ahead of getting a new one, like I was few years ago.

I agree - situation has improved greatly since, and now probably average waiting time for new licence is around 2 weeks which is much better.

But still there's no need to force people to surrender licence even for those 2 weeks if they can't.

Why not introduce 2 options:
1. You surrender your licence at application, and receive new one by post within approx 2 weeks.
2. You apply, and keep your licence. When new one is ready, you come over personally to NDLS to collect it and drop back the old one.
This makes perfect sense, and solves a problem of leaving people without licence when they need it. And that's how it successfully work in other countries.

Any arguments against it?

bigboss1986

I work for car hire company and I ve been renting cars all over the world and Im sure in 100% photocopy is not enough,also im pretty sure you wont get licence in 10 days from NDLS.Im waiting since January

slimjimmc

bigboss1986 wrote: »

I work for car hire company and I ve been renting cars all over the world and Im sure in 100% photocopy is not enough,also im pretty sure you wont get licence in 10 days from NDLS.Im waiting since January

Irrespective of the car hire I wouldn't fancy driving abroad without being able to show a licence to the authorities if required. It mightn't go down well if the vehicle is impounded and you're detained until they can verify your status.
AFAIK licence renewals pretty much take 9-10 days, first time applications may take longer.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

No, you don't understand me correctly here.
I didn't ask for exchange of foreign licence.
I held Irish licence for at least 5 years at that point, and I passed a driving test (here in Ireland) for another category (trucks) and to be able to drive trucks, I needed to apply for new licence which would include new category.
I was asked to submit my current licence and wait for few months without holding a licence (document) which I needed for work purposes (driving abroad) - I don't know how would I explain to my boss that I couldn't drive for him as I had to give my licence for few months to motortax office.



Yes, that's correct.


Well that's only your guess, the same as theirs.
No one could know if I was telling the truth or lying saying that I lost my licence. Maybe I really lost it. On my first visit there I never took my licence off my wallet, so maybe it was gone then already.


You are coming up with a story which is not true.
If I was trying to pull a wool over their eyes, that would be only for a reason to override a stupid system, that would force me to loose my job and not be able to drive for few months legally.


Wrong again - I didn't get caught lying.
To be caught lying you need a proof.
All I did was I came to motortax office with statement signed by a gard stating that I lost my licence.
How on earth I got caught lying?
Possibly I really lost my licence.


Exactly, they are the ones making inappropriate casual remarks.

And believe me - I respect Irish law and obey it.


Again the same - I didn't get caught on anything.
I was just refused, purely on motortax manager suspision that I was lying, without any proofs.
Do you really believe that public servants should act like that.


Believe me - they won't. They might be human but even if they wanted to help, they couldn't.
Problem is usually they don't want to help, like it was in my case.
At those times, they had a facility to issue licence on the spot. After me explaining the reasons why I needed it, they said it was impossible.

Where did you get it takes a few months to get a licence renewed or category added? I've added many categories to my licence, pre NDLS, and the longest was 2 weeks with usually a week. Still no good for someone who needs it for a living but nowhere near the 4 months you posted later.

somebody_else

Just adding mu 2 cents.

My better half was replacing her driving licence yesterday.
Very nice gentleman was very polite and everything but at the end when she had to give up her old driving licence which still have three weeks till the date, she was told that for next two - three weeks she can't drive the car due to lack of driving licence !

And documents signed by NDLS rep was only to show that she pay for renewal !

I'm finding this strange.

Tom

keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

Of course you should be expected to surrender old licence to get a new one.

The thing is, you should not be expected to surrender it, 4 months ahead of getting a new one, like I was few years ago.

I agree - situation has improved greatly since, and now probably average waiting time for new licence is around 2 weeks which is much better.

But still there's no need to force people to surrender licence even for those 2 weeks if they can't.

Why not introduce 2 options:
1. You surrender your licence at application, and receive new one by post within approx 2 weeks.
2. You apply, and keep your licence. When new one is ready, you come over personally to NDLS to collect it and drop back the old one.
This makes perfect sense, and solves a problem of leaving people without licence when they need it. And that's how it successfully work in other countries.

Any arguments against it?

I went to exchange my License in Eindhoven and its the same procedure.
Apparently it's because the License is only a piece of paper/plastic that refers to a license record.

If you use your existing license its technically not valid when its cancelled in the old member state anymore.

E.G. Any penalties acrued while driving on that license would go nowhere as the license was possibly not valid at the time you were waiting for the exchange.

Hence they take it off you.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

Where did you get it takes a few months to get a licence renewed or category added? I've added many categories to my licence, pre NDLS, and the longest was 2 weeks with usually a week. Still no good for someone who needs it for a living but nowhere near the 4 months you posted later.

That was few years ago, if I remember correctly 2012.
In Mayo motortax office waiting times were around 3 to 4 months.
Funny as at the same time in Galway is was about 1 week, and in Cork you often used to get licence on the spot if you asked nicely.
Brilliant system, wasn't it?

Then a while after that from 2013 new NDLS centres were introduced, and same problem at the beinning waiting times were around few months.
Now it normalized and it's about 2 weeks as far as I know, which is more acceptable, but still far from perfect.

CiniO

somebody_else wrote: »

Just adding mu 2 cents.

My better half was replacing her driving licence yesterday.
Very nice gentleman was very polite and everything but at the end when she had to give up her old driving licence which still have three weeks till the date, she was told that for next two - three weeks she can't drive the car due to lack of driving licence !

And documents signed by NDLS rep was only to show that she pay for renewal !

I'm finding this strange.

Tom

Because it is strange, but unfortunately that's how it works here in Ireland.

From practical point of view though, no one is going to suffer any consequences of driving in Ireland when waiting for new licence.
However if you want to rent a car or drive abroad, that's when problem shows up.

CiniO

keithclancy wrote: »

I went to exchange my License in Eindhoven and its the same procedure.
Apparently it's because the License is only a piece of paper/plastic that refers to a license record.

If you use your existing license its technically not valid when its cancelled in the old member state anymore.

E.G. Any penalties acrued while driving on that license would go nowhere as the license was possibly not valid at the time you were waiting for the exchange.

Hence they take it off you.

Are you referring here to exchange of foreign licence?
What about renewal in Holland? Is it same procedure?
If so, that's same stupidity as in Ireland.

In Poland when you apply for licence (whatever reason - renewal, new category, change of address, etc) you can choose to keep old one until new one is printed and ready. Then when it's ready you can come over to the office, they will cancel your old one on the spot, and issue you a new one.
Why can't it be done like that in Ireland or Netherland?

somebody_else

yeah but on the other hand you need to change licence plates every time when a car changes owner - and pay of it !

Tom

CiniO wrote: »

Are you referring here to exchange of foreign licence?
What about renewal in Holland? Is it same procedure?
If so, that's same stupidity as in Ireland.

In Poland when you apply for licence (whatever reason - renewal, new category, change of address, etc) you can choose to keep old one until new one is printed and ready. Then when it's ready you can come over to the office, they will cancel your old one on the spot, and issue you a new one.
Why can't it be done like that in Ireland or Netherland?

ohnonotgmail

CiniO wrote: »

Of course you should be expected to surrender old licence to get a new one.

The thing is, you should not be expected to surrender it, 4 months ahead of getting a new one, like I was few years ago.

I agree - situation has improved greatly since, and now probably average waiting time for new licence is around 2 weeks which is much better.

But still there's no need to force people to surrender licence even for those 2 weeks if they can't.

Why not introduce 2 options:
1. You surrender your licence at application, and receive new one by post within approx 2 weeks.
2. You apply, and keep your licence. When new one is ready, you come over personally to NDLS to collect it and drop back the old one.
This makes perfect sense, and solves a problem of leaving people without licence when they need it. And that's how it successfully work in other countries.

Any arguments against it?

Yeah, you would have people complaining about having to go back to the NDLS center twice and taking even more time off work.

keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

Are you referring here to exchange of foreign licence?
What about renewal in Holland? Is it same procedure?
If so, that's same stupidity as in Ireland.

In Poland when you apply for licence (whatever reason - renewal, new category, change of address, etc) you can choose to keep old one until new one is printed and ready. Then when it's ready you can come over to the office, they will cancel your old one on the spot, and issue you a new one.
Why can't it be done like that in Ireland or Netherland?

Exchange of foreign license,

For renewals, you can drive on an expired Dutch Driving license while waiting for your new one (in the Netherlands only) as long as you applied for the new one before the old one expired, waiting period is 5 days.