The difficult second album

Bambaata

How about joining me at Northwood ;-) ?? If we managed to coordinate times with Dave, you and I we'd be able to take over a lane

joey100

I had thought about Northwood but it's too awkward getting to work after the swim. UCD means an earlier swim but no hassle getting to work after and it's 50m

griffin100

I've been swimming in UCD since it opened so I'm a fan!! I do most of my swimming between 12.30 and 2.30ish. Make sure whatever membership option you end up with you get access to the members car park, otherwise you'll never get parking in Belfield during term. The tv's and fancy dressing rooms are grand but I prefer to use the changing village rather than the members area. The facility itself is second to none and the low chlorine water is a big plus. In the three years I've been swimming there it has only ever been in 25m format twice. Given that each lane is 50m long and over 2m wide a single lane can take a lot of swimmers comfortably. It can get very busy in the mid afternoon as they close lanes for kids lessons and you can end up sharing the remaining lanes with a lot of the leisure afternoon swimmers. I'll keep an eye out for the green tattoos!!

joey100

Cheers Griffin, though if you swimming at that time our paths probably won't pass, I'll be there from 6-7 in the morning but maybe a few afternoons if I can get a half day from work too.

Fri 30th Oct

30 mins easy run. Legs felt ok for the easy part of this, had some builds in it and took a little bit to get the turn over in the legs moving. Easy pace improving and heart rate very settled for this.

Sat 31st Oct

Had to move the planned cycle to Sunday and do my run today. 1hr easy. Agin felt good, legs felt strong and was no problem at all, even threw in a big hill that normally has me around 5.30-ish pace for easy, today was 5.11 so definite improvement in heart rate. Lovely weather to be running in too.

Sun 1st Nov

Easy cycle with the father in law. Laura's dad has done a good bit of cycling and even came on our club training camp in Sardinia and had no problem keeping up. Hasn't been out on the bike much with work recently and it showed at times today. Good for me though, meant we kept it nice and easy. Around 61km done in 2hr 15, but there was a few 3/4km sections were the average speed was in and around 40kmph so not all easy.

Mon 2nd Nov

Early morning swim. The pool this morning was a bit busier but still nothing too bad. Managed to get my set all done, had to extend the rest by a few seconds once or twice but nothing major. 10 X 100m alt sw/pull was the main bit. Pull stayed consistent again, bit of a dorp off again in the swims but for the last 100m sw there were a few people in the lane beside me and I pushed to try and catch them before the end of the length, my fastest 100 of the day, amazing what a bit of competition will do. The other thing I noticed about the pool today was that it must be full of triathletes, nothing but Ironman tattoo's, Ironman swim caps and t shirts. Starting to feel like I need to do one to fit in in the pool!

This week is a testing week. FTP test tomorrow, last test was 250, of course I would like it higher but for where I am in the year I would be happy if I could at least keep it very close to this. 400m Swim tt on Fri, not looking forward to this, averaging around 1.35 for 100's in the pool, and that's with a rest every 100 so anything close to 6.30 would be a good result which is far off the best I have swam of 6.04. 30 min run TT on Friday too, this is probably the one I feel least bad about (still don't feel good though!), run has come on an awful lot since last year, this test will be more about heart rate but at same time will be interesting to see how far I can go in 30 mins. Interesting week ahead!

joey100

Mon 2nd Nov

Easy afternoon run in work. Bit of a strange one, felt very comfortable but heart rate was a bit quicker to rise than last while but also quicker to fall. Kept nice and easy and pace was decent. Around 7km done.

Evening run with Laura. Very very easy run but nice to get out, legs felt better after than before and was a handy run. Around 4.25km run. Decent days running without anything spectacular. Signed up for the aware 10km too, would be nice to lower my 10km pb, around 39.25-ish. Would be really nice to see a low 38 or high 37, but we will see. Around 5 weeks training before it so plenty of time to get into a good bit of form.

FTP test this evening, usually do turbo with Laura on Tuesday evening (awh!), have the 2 turbos set up so as handy to do our sessions together and get them done. Tonight I had to tell her that she would be by herself, I would need the whole room to myself to get this done. No distractions allowed, have to get into the right mindset and prepare to suffer! She has seen what I have been like after them before so was happy enough to let me do it myself.

joey100

Tues 3rd Nov

First FTP of this seasons training. I've felt training has being going well, been consistent enough anyway since I got back into it. The majority of the turbo stuff has been easy enough so was curious to see how this would go. Last test was in June, right before my big races and when I was in some of the best shape of the season, 5 min was 322 and 20 min was 266. Plan was to try and match this if I could, anything close would be good with any improvements a bonus.

Started off ok on the bike, took a little bit for the legs to get going but was all good. 5 mins up first and plan was to build a bit into it rather than set out hard and try to hold it like I usually do. Paced it well but blew up a little bit with around 15 seconds left, power for the 5 mins was 315, so a drop of 7 watts on the last one but for the amount of recent training I have spent in that zone I was happy. Took the full 10 mins recovery keeping it nice and easy, didn't push it at all here and let the legs recover. Same plan for the 20 mins, build into it. Paced this well and even though it was hurting I felt I could keep going, all until the last 3/4 mins when I tried to push a bit more knowing the finish was coming. 268 for the 20 mins so an improvement of 2 watts over the last time. Nothing major but good to still be at the same levels as I was in June. Means FTP is about 250 still, weight still around 60kg and a nice base to be starting the season. New 10 min (from my 5 X 30 build, 30 easy, 5 min TT) record, 15 min for the back 15 of the 20 min and 20 min power records too so good session overall. Room did get a bit hot for it so I think I'll have to do it next time with the door open to try let a bit of air flow through it.

Wed 4th Nov

Legs were tired this morning but not as tired as I would expect. Main set in swimming being 10 X 50m pull alt easy/steady and then 10 X 50m swim alt easy/steady. Pull easy was around 54 seconds with steady being around 50, swim easy around 50 seconds and steady around 46. I'll try to use this pace for the 400m TT on Friday. Felt strong in the water and was working on speeding up the pull phase, rather than keep it all the same speed through the water. A 50m pool is great for a set like this, very easy to count and seems to go quicker than a shorter pool.

Kurt_Godel

Nice one on the FTP- good mark for the start of this training block. I can confirm they have an easier lead-in if you don't actually realise you're doing one!

It'll be interesting to see what difference the 50m pool makes to your swim times. Has to much better for you than a shorter pool. I only swam UCD the once- you're lucky being able to use it on a regular basis, great facility.

joey100

Cheers Kurt. Yep it really is a great place to swim, even this morning was pretty busy but still plenty of space in the lane and only had to extend the rest period by a few seconds once or twice. So far my times are fair bit slower, I was swimming 100's in around 1.33 in the 20m pool, here it's more like 1.37's. 50m fast isn't too bad, in and around the same time but as the distance goes up and there's less rest at each wall it gets tougher. Good practice for open water swimming though and hopefully over the next few months I'll get faster anyway.

tunney

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Nice one on the FTP- good mark for the start of this training block. I can confirm they have an easier lead-in if you don't actually realise you're doing one!

It'll be interesting to see what difference the 50m pool makes to your swim times. Has to much better for you than a shorter pool. I only swam UCD the once- you're lucky being able to use it on a regular basis, great facility.

if you are in a 25 you need to tumble.

Kurt_Godel

tunney wrote: »

if you are in a 25 you need to tumble.

Agreed, its the best way.

I'll usually not tumble during pool TT's though (looking to do some pool Tri's early next season).

joey100

I don't like pool tri's at all. No one is honest with their times, you will get stuck behind people and generally annoyed. Best way to have it work for you would be to lead the lane but I'd still say at some stage you will begin to pass back markers and get stuck behind them.

Kurt_Godel

joey100 wrote: »

I don't like pool tri's at all. No one is honest with their times, you will get stuck behind people and generally annoyed. Best way to have it work for you would be to lead the lane but I'd still say at some stage you will begin to pass back markers and get stuck behind them.

Yeah they are a pain in the arse. People frantically hitting your toes after two lengths, even though you're drafting off a fast guy... and then slowing down when you let them past.

Don't like them either but they beat OW water temperature roulette in May!

joey100

True, and I can probably see myself doing one depending on timing. Best thing to do is just get so strong in the water no one can even hang onto your draft, simple!

pgibbo

tunney wrote: »

if you are in a 25 you need to tumble.

Assuming you can tumble

joey100

Wed 4th Nov

Easy run at lunch time. Legs a bit heavy but not too bad really. Kept it nice and easy, heart rate wasn't too bad for the effort but pace slowed a bit once the road climbed at all. The longer it went on the more comfortable I got, the route is pretty much 1km flat then 3km gradually going up, then turn and back to work. Decent run and pleased with how it went after a tough Tuesday evening.Around 8.5km ran.

I had originally said I would only do the planned runs this week but the legs were feeling ok so went running with the club. Nice and easy warm up then into main set of 12 X 1 min on, 1 min off. Ran the majority of these with Laura, kept the heart rate in the easy zone and helped her pace them. Pleased with how the legs held up, felt good, didn't feel tired or stiff. All the mins paced well. Around 8.5km ran again. Another good training day and body is feeling well today, bit of tiredness in the legs but that usually goes as the day goes on. Just an easy turbo tonight before another test day tomorrow.

joey100

Thurs 5th Nov

Easy enough day with only a 45 min turbo on the plans. Legs felt pretty good for this and had to pull back the power at times to keep it in the easy zone. Average power for the 45 mins was 197 and heart rate was normal for the perceived easy effort so a good session.

Fri 6th Nov

Swim TT's. The second part of my testing week, and the one I was least looking forward to. My hundreds with 15 seconds rest have been averaging around 1.36 so the goal for this was sub 6.30. Felt I paced it well, time was 6.28 so just under the target. 50m pool shows up any lack of stamina you have and I'm still working on this. Plenty of time to come off this once the stamina and strength improve in the pool. Not too bad a marker but not great either. 100m TT after this and the goal was sub 1.30. Again lack of stamina shown up in the back half of this and was 1.29. Again just under target but plenty of improving to do. Lane to myself and empty lane both sides when these where done so completely by myself, happy enough. Hard to compare 20m times to 50m times but they were both under what I was aiming for.

ray o

joey100 wrote: »

Swim TT's. The second part of my testing week, and the one I was least looking forward to. My hundreds with 15 seconds rest have been averaging around 1.36 so the goal for this was sub 6.30. Felt I paced it well, time was 6.28 so just under the target. 50m pool shows up any lack of stamina you have and I'm still working on this. Plenty of time to come off this once the stamina and strength improve in the pool. Not too bad a marker but not great either. 100m TT after this and the goal was sub 1.30. Again lack of stamina shown up in the back half of this and was 1.29. Again just under target but plenty of improving to do. Lane to myself and empty lane both sides when these where done so completely by myself, happy enough. Hard to compare 20m times to 50m times but they were both under what I was aiming for.

A 50m pool and clean water. Mr T will be pleased.

joey100

Yep, I hope so! Was in the pool at 6 to try and get it done when it was as quiet as possible. Worked out well. Pool doesn't get that busy usually until around 7, when I'm getting out so it's working out well.

ray o

joey100 wrote: »

Yep, I hope so! Was in the pool at 6 to try and get it done when it was as quiet as possible. Worked out well. Pool doesn't get that busy usually until around 7, when I'm getting out so it's working out well.

Not easy to push yourself at that hour of the morning. I know alot of people speak highly of the advantages of swimming in a group and pushing yourself to keep up with sharks etc,. However I think if you have the sets and are motivated enough, breaking your own water every session can really improve your fitness. I certainly found that to be the case when I put together a decent run of swimming earlier this year.

tunney

ray o wrote: »

Not easy to push yourself at that hour of the morning. I know alot of people speak highly of the advantages of swimming in a group and pushing yourself to keep up with sharks etc,. However I think if you have the sets and are motivated enough, breaking your own water every session can really improve your fitness. I certainly found that to be the case when I put together a decent run of swimming earlier this year.

A TT as part of a masters or club set is usually just an exercise in cock swinging.

Kurt_Godel

tunney wrote: »

A TT as part of a masters or club set is usually just an exercise in cock swinging.

Slow TT's are better performed alone, I hear what you're saying Dave

Kurt_Godel

joey100 wrote: »

Swim TT's. The second part of my testing week, and the one I was least looking forward to. My hundreds with 15 seconds rest have been averaging around 1.36 so the goal for this was sub 6.30. Felt I paced it well, time was 6.28 so just under the target. 50m pool shows up any lack of stamina you have and I'm still working on this. Plenty of time to come off this once the stamina and strength improve in the pool. Not too bad a marker but not great either. 100m TT after this and the goal was sub 1.30. Again lack of stamina shown up in the back half of this and was 1.29. Again just under target but plenty of improving to do. Lane to myself and empty lane both sides when these where done so completely by myself, happy enough. Hard to compare 20m times to 50m times but they were both under what I was aiming for.

Thats a fairly wide variance in target pace between the 100 and the 400? Just throwing it out there for the sake of discussion, IMO you should be targeting a 6:15 400m, based on your 100m time.

joey100

If I was fit in the pool I would agree with you Kurt. And in a shorter pool I would have gone faster for both, no question. I'm finding though that my stamina isn't great, the long pool is exposing that. So for a hundred metre I can get away with it, but once you start adding on a few more hundreds to it it starts to show up where I am weak. At the moment I have the speed to swim a 100 in 1.30, but not the stamina or strength to put even 2/3 of these together.

Even with the 100 the first 50 was strong and I felt decent but towards the back of the second 50 it was more about stopping a falling apart of form than pushing on or even holding my pace. The 1st 50 of the 100 wouldn't have even been spectacularly fast either.

tunney

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Slow TT's are better performed alone, I hear what you're saying Dave

A group TT is like a power test that has a T20 without a T5. Inflated numbers.

Last TT I did was solo, on two weeks swimming in 7 months, and was 18 seconds off your PB. But please climb higher up on the sea horse.....

tunney

joey100 wrote: »

If I was fit in the pool I would agree with you Kurt. And in a shorter pool I would have gone faster for both, no question. I'm finding though that my stamina isn't great, the long pool is exposing that. So for a hundred metre I can get away with it, but once you start adding on a few more hundreds to it it starts to show up where I am weak. At the moment I have the speed to swim a 100 in 1.30, but not the stamina or strength to put even 2/3 of these together.

Even with the 100 the first 50 was strong and I felt decent but towards the back of the second 50 it was more about stopping a falling apart of form than pushing on or even holding my pace. The 1st 50 of the 100 wouldn't have even been spectacularly fast either.

Its the extra breath, kick and glide - you don't realise big an impact it has until you swim LC for a bit.

Kurt_Godel

tunney wrote: »

A group TT is like a power test that has a T20 without a T5. Inflated numbers.

Last TT I did was solo, on two weeks swimming in 7 months, and was 18 seconds off your PB. But please climb higher up on the sea horse.....

So your mickey swing is smaller than mine, not much use comparing though is there?

A group TT where you hold a draft is useful for two things, swimming at a fast pace and turning quickly. It can help you get a feel for the water at a quicker speed than usual. I did a 5:49 a while back second in a train- very easy and close to effortless. Did a much tougher (honest) 5:50 shortly after, a PB. Works for me. Mightn't work for others.

joey100

Fri 6th Nov

So run test in the evening. Bit of a warm up then into 30 mins as hard as I could hold for the time. Aim was to get as close to the 8km mark as I could for the time. Legs were feling the tough enough week and didn't start the warm up feeling great. Once I got moving though the legs weren't too bad. Covered 7.9km for the 30 mins so pleased with that. That sort of pace in the 10km in December should see me hit a 37.xx. Would be delighted with that. Tough testing week but glad it's done.

Sat 7th Nov

Long cycle. Waited a little bit for the rain to pass and seemed to miss the most of it. 2.5hours done and covered around 76km. Felt decent on the bike when the pace was easy and steady. legs really felt it when I tired to push the pace at all. Good to get the cycle done outside, I'll be on the turbo enough over the winter so was no need for it today.

Sun 8th Nov

Again waited and missed the rain. Plan was for 1hr 15 mins easy. Never turned the auto lap back on so the figures where for the full time. Kept it nice and steady and upped the pace a little bit towards the end. Heart rate was towards lower end of easy and pace averaged out around 4.41 so a good run on tired legs.

Mon 9th Nov

Early morning swim. Awful night sleep on Sunday, the grand total of 0 hours and 0 mins sleep. Still headed to the pool but the effort was a lot higher than normal for the pace. Bit of a warm up then into 10 X 50m, half drll, half swim. Then 5 X 100m alt sw/pull steady and then 4 X 50 fast on 60. These came in around 45 seconds, happy enough with how I felt in the water and the perceived effort. Took the day off work and went home to have a nap so I'm ok for my run this afternoon and work tomorrow.

mossym

Were you talking about doing outlaw Joe?
http://www.triradar.com/news/pre-register-for-new-outlaw-half-event/

joey100

Yep mossy, got in for the first one though. Sold out in 8 mins in the first day and around the same on the second so the demand def seems to be there for another race. The full outlaw still seems to be open though.

rodneyr1981

joey100 wrote:

So run test in the evening. Bit of a warm up then into 30 mins as hard as I could hold for the time. Aim was to get as close to the 8km mark as I could for the time. Legs were feling the tough enough week and didn't start the warm up feeling great. Once I got moving though the legs weren't too bad. Covered 7.9km for the 30 mins so pleased with that. That sort of pace in the 10km in December should see me hit a 37.xx. Would be delighted with that. Tough testing week but glad it's done.

Nicely done. Would this be an improvement on last season? Granted your out of season at moment.