The difficult second album

Pmaldini

Hi Joey,
you have probably mentioned this earlier but are you going with a coach for the IM training or doing your own plan? also would it be advisable to do an FTP test tomorrow when you are just coming back from sickness, the strain of that test could set you back again, could you put it off a few days or do you feel all is well?

joey100

You read my mind P, I was going to judge it based on how I felt on this afternoons run, didn't feel great so the FTP test will be swapped for next week or the week after.

Going with my own plan, had hoped to get a coach but it didn't work out so using bits of a few different plans to try pull something together. It's my first one and it's more to see if I like the training for it and the race itself, so we see how the first one goes and maybe if I do another I might get a coach.

Pmaldini

good call Joey,
the best of luck with the training, iv'e no doubt you will do very well, its not a huge jump from what you have done for the last few years, the sessions will get longer but the intensity isn't as hard. I'm looking forward to following your progress and probably stealing a few of your sessions:D

tunney

Pmaldini wrote: »

Hi Joey,
you have probably mentioned this earlier but are you going with a coach for the IM training or doing your own plan? also would it be advisable to do an FTP test tomorrow when you are just coming back from sickness, the strain of that test could set you back again, could you put it off a few days or do you feel all is well?

An FTP test coming back from illness:
* Will be invalid within a week
* You are more likely to get injured after illness

I'd leave it.........

joey100

I'm going to go back to logging weekly, lets me put some of my thoughts down and will be easier for me to track my training that way.

I took people's advice and put off the FTP test, good decision in the end and health improved as the week went on. I'll do it during my next recovery week to get a better idea of where I am at.

So first week of the plan down. A good week, no missed sessions and good to be back doing a bit of decent training again. 3 swims, 1 was a bit shorter than I had planned combination of getting stuck in traffic and having to be in work a good bit earlier than usual meant I got 40 mins done instead of planned hour. Pleased I got in the pool though and didn't skip it. Mainly short intervals (50's + 100's) to try and just get used to being back in the water. Little improvement from first to last session so hopefully it keeps going that way.

4 bike sessions and around 6hrs done. Following a fair chunk of one of the trainer road plans and it's a bit tougher than what I would usually do. Lowered my FTP by 5% on Sunday for the last session, think the other sessions where taking too much out of me for endurance sessions and I'd rather it be a little low and hit all the sessions than not be able to finish the week. I'll get a proper FTP number in about 3 weeks but until then I'll adjust it as I need, probably downwards!

5 run sessions. Everything easy and 1 recovery run. Nothing too hard or long yet. Long run @ 90 mins and I've lowered the top end of the HR for this to try and make sure I keep it slow. All runs felt good apart from Wednesday evening when I never really settled into it. Finally got my fenix 3 back but I'm not convinced the new one is any better, I'll keep an eye on it but it might end up being sent back too.

Just over 13 hours for the week and body is a little tired today, but a good tired. Been averaging over 8 hours sleep a night with 9 hours the last 3 nights. Still working on weight, @60kg all week. Need to be eating more and getting more prepared for bringing more food to work.

A good start to the training though and I'm enjoying having a bit of structure again. This week will be something similar, first few weeks are just getting back into the habit.

joey100

2nd Week done and another full week. No sessions missed and no shorter sessions this week either.

3 swims. Mainly keeping the intervals pretty short in the pool at the moment, endurance isn't there. Done a little with 2 other lads in the pool one of the days but that was more hanging onto the back trying not to get dropped. Based on the times they were swimming I should really be able to stick with them. Did see around 2/3 second improvement per 100 from last week. Around 3hrs 15 done in the pool.

5 runs done. Again mainly easy runs. 25 min steady effort within a longer run on Wednesday, felt comfortable without being particularly fast but no real discomfort. Brick on Saturday had a 10 min effort in it and was pleased with the pace. Brick felt grand and was done with 5 mins of getting off a 3 hour turbo. Legs never under any real pressure. Sunday long run was 95 mins and an improvement in pace. Again comfortable and felt in control. Hr very settled too, most comfortable run in a while.

4 sessions on the bike and around 6 hours, all on the turbo. Long one of 3 hours on Sat with the majority spent between 70-80% of FTP. Short sprints on Tues seen me set a new 20 second power record. Last night was 3 by 15 min sweet spot intervals with 3 mins recovery. Able to get through them ok and pleased with how the bike is going. Able to hold power closer to target, normally it jumps around a bit so definitely a bit of bike strength building. Decision to lower FTP seems to have worked, still working during the sessions but not as wrecked after as I had been.

This week is something similar, be an extra hour on the bike made up from lengthening some of the sessions. Swim will stay in and around the same. Run will be similar enough too, maybe 40 mins longer, again by adding to the sessions from last week. Just over 14 hours done last week. Even done a stretching and core session too.

Bought some new smaller rollers in decathlon to try and get myself to use them. Have used them a bit and seem to be working. Haven't included that in the training time cos I'm usually sitting watching TV when I'm doing it.

Fenix 3 has gone back and I'm ordering a Forerunner 35. Don't use the watch for swimming and have a bike computer so no need really for the fancy watch. I'm going to stick with the HR strap too. Bit of a bike fit review coming up just to see if any small adjustments need to be made and the TT bike should be getting etap put on it in the next few weeks. Think I'm going to do the sportsman duathlon in 2 weeks as my first race of the season. Not planned but timing is good and be good to have a run out.

pgibbo

Where are you getting the bike fit done? Are you tempted by the aero analysis here?

joey100

Hey P, yep seen that during the week and it does look tempting but don't think I'll be going with it. The TT bike is so integrated that it can't really take other parts, they need to be trek parts and the way the stem works is like a plate system that's built up bit by bit and then the gears and brakes are routed through the centre of it. Means that to change the height of the bars you need to take apart the bars, uncable the gears and brakes, put in the new specific part and then re build. Not really do-able at a bike fit. Going back to base2race, was fitted there on the Argon and I felt they done a good job, I was comfortable and by an eye ball test looked fairly aero. I don't think I'm a in a bad position on the new bike it's just to get someone objective to take a look and see if any adjustments can be made that would help. I wouldn't be surprised if very little changed but even that confirmation that I'm in a decent position will be good.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

You might get some insight and discussion here in your log, post a video from the side, front, and from behind to see if there is much hip movement (wear racing lid)

joey100

Cool, I'll try get that sorted JB, have to move some stuff around but should work. The lid be an interesting one, I'm not 100% sure on it, had an old bell javelin that seemed to suit me well, broke though and changed to the giro aerohead but not convinced it suits my position. Cheers.

pgibbo

How about posting it on a new thread on the main forum. It might encourage a few more people to do the same?

joey100

Leave it with me over the weekend, have to do some moving around of bits and pieces to get it to work and then figure out the whole uploading thing! But I'll try get something done, be good in it's own thread alright, might get a bit of discussion going.

boysinblack

joey100 wrote: »

Hey P, yep seen that during the week and it does look tempting but don't think I'll be going with it. The TT bike is so integrated that it can't really take other parts, they need to be trek parts and the way the stem works is like a plate system that's built up bit by bit and then the gears and brakes are routed through the centre of it. Means that to change the height of the bars you need to take apart the bars, uncable the gears and brakes, put in the new specific part and then re build. Not really do-able at a bike fit. Going back to base2race, was fitted there on the Argon and I felt they done a good job, I was comfortable and by an eye ball test looked fairly aero. I don't think I'm a in a bad position on the new bike it's just to get someone objective to take a look and see if any adjustments can be made that would help. I wouldn't be surprised if very little changed but even that confirmation that I'm in a decent position will be good.

Brendan Whelan in the bicycle design centre in naas does the best bike fits around imo. His charge of €90 bit more reasonable than the competition as well.

joey100

3rd week of block done and now into a bit of a recovery week. Got tired towards the middle of last week so the timing is good. Another week of no sessions missed so pleased with that. Full block of training and not 1 session missed is good going. Last week was 15hours 57 mins, if I had of known that on Sunday evening I would have stayed on the bike for 3 more mins!

Swim. 3 sessions again. One was a little longer at around 75 mins and the other 2 around 65 mins. Speed still coming back, bit faster again but the improvements have slowed from the first two weeks. To be expected but the recovery between the efforts has come down too so still seeing improvements.

Bike. Big enough bike week. 4 sessions, all on the turbo. 2x1.5hours, 1x1hr and 1x3hours. Last nights one is the one that stands out. 5x10mins@ sweet spot efforts with 5 recovery inbetween. Done in the evening after my long run in the morning. Started to suffer a bit on the end of the third one. Through them all though. Again finding it hard to judge the power, I'm either fair bit above where I need to be or just below it, If I could hold it closer to the target it would probably be better but even still I done it all.

Run. 6 runs this week. One was short and a recovery with Laura and Kona but was good to get out. 2 easy runs. 1 long run @ 1hr 45 mins, felt comfortable for the whole thing of this and the pace was decent enough. Wednesday was 30 mins of steady either side of some easy and Sat was 15 mins of steady in a 35 min brick run. Pleased with how I'm running off the bike, pace seems to be better off the bike. Overall though a bit of an improvement in my pace for the same HR and working off the little lower HR limit is working well for recovery.

Done some stretching and core work too. only 2 short sessions so will work on adding another and plenty of foam rolling done too. Race planned this Sunday at the sportsman duathlon, 3km, 16km, 3km so will be short and fast. Be good to see where I am though. Hoping for an FTP test during the week too, but this week sees a few late nights in work doing seminars so not sure I will get it done. If not I'll keep working off the current FTP, seems to be working well, I'm working in the sessions anyway and they don't feel too easy!

Didn't get a chance to take a vid of me on the bike but I'll try and get it done during this week. And now to rest!

joey100

Just a quick update, Monday off as a rest day but was long day in work and FTP test then last night. Meant nearly 48 hours off training so as fresh as I would ever be for it.

Started thinking I might put it off and do it on Thurs but put that out of my mind and just got through it. FTP of 228 going into it, was aiming for high 230's. 5 min effort was 287w and was tough enough but maybe held a little back. (trainer road has a 5 min recovery between the 5 min effort and the 20min rather than the usual 10). 20 min effort was 257w and broken into the 4x5 min splits as 250,251,260,266, so built well through it and felt it was well paced. probably a little conservative for both efforts but pleased with them. Gives me an FTP of 244 @60kg and the most pleasing thing was it was all done in the aero position. No sitting up and making it a little easier. That's the big change from the last few years, I'm making a real effort to do as much of my bike training as possible (all of it really) in the aero position. Seems to be working and can't ever remember being able to hold that power in it so good signs.

Kurt.Godel

Cool as a cucumber Joey, no fuss, get the FTP done, box ticked. Other drama queens write like its the highlight of their season

joey100 wrote: »

5 min effort was 287w and was tough enough but maybe held a little back.

Very hard to know what the correct effort is for the 5mins... some say holding back something affects the 20min test but I do't know, its very hard not to have a reserve for the longer test in mind. Well done though, done and dusted, you're in a good place for Feb!

joey100

Cheers Kurt, yep not sure about the 5 min or 20 min effort, last time I done this test I blew up very early into both the 5 and 20 min efforts and struggled to hold on til the end, this time tried to build into both efforts but think I might have started low in each. Just checked my records though and the 5 min was around 22watts lower than my record and the 20min around 13 watts lower than my record. Def not a bad place to be in in February and hopefully more gains coming.

RJM85

Nicely done this morning Joey. Good to meet you in person too! I do want a rematch though!

joey100

Cheers, prob out performed where I thought I'd be. I'd say your slipped chain cost you, if you had of left with the few of us on the bike it might have been a different result!

RJM85

joey100 wrote: »

Cheers, prob out performed where I thought I'd be. I'd say your slipped chain cost you, if you had of left with the few of us on the bike it might have been a different result!

Ah, as the saying goes "if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle." You seemed to be well in control at the few times I encountered you on the course and you definitely paced the first run well.

Chain cost me but I then had added incentive to catch you on the bike.

Anyways im happy with the fitness at this stage which is all I can ask for. Drop another 2-3kg before the next race and I'll be more competitive.

joey100

Right so, another week down. Recovery/step back/test week, what ever you want to call it.

Missed a swim session, first session missed so only 1 time swimming this week. Not ideal at all and don't want to slip back into old habits.

3xbike sessions. 1 FTP test that seen a good improvement, easy enough session with some 20 second sprints on Thurs and actually got out on the bike on Sat. An easy 50km with 10km TT effort towards the end. On the road bike and felt very different than being in the TT position. Good to get back out on the roads.

2 run sessions done during the week, both short enough and easy. Easy pace improving and starting to feel like I'm running rather than plodding along.

Yesterday was Sportsmans Duathlon outside Dundalk. Timed nicely at the end of a recovery week so as good a time to race as any. Short enough with a 3.1km run, 16.2km bike and 3.1km run, be over pretty quick but be a session of suffering. Got there nice and early and done a fairly decent warm up, done lap of the bike course with some efforts and then about 2km run just to get legs moving. Legs a little heavy but overall felt good. Met up with RJM and soon race started.

Run 1 11.33

The run starts with the first km pretty much all downhill. Lot of fast running at the start but stuck on RJM's shoulder for this bit, reckon he knew the course better than most and would have a good idea how to pace it. As the km moved on gradually moved through the group, 2nd km still mainly downhill but few lumps in this one. Pace slowed a little but was still moving through the group so was pleased, still on RJM shoulder too. I knew the last km was pretty much all uphill so I was happy to be running fairly comfortably up to now knowing it was going to get tougher, was up towards the front but had no real idea of position. Pushed it a bit once the road went up and tried to open gap on the little group we were in, seemed to work well and had a few seconds over the rest into T1.

T1 0.51, pretty slow but still out with the group who came in all very close on the run.

Bike 28.43

An honest bike route, 3km downhill to a roundabout then 3km back up, 1km of rolling before a drop to the next roundabout, steep climb back up and then rolling again to start line before the next lap. Lost a little time on the downhills, was still moving but just others moving that bit faster, happy to sit in though and save it for the climb. Long-ish constant climb like that suits me and on both laps it was here I put some time/space between me and others. Start of lap 2 RJM flew past me and gave me a bit of a goal to get moving! The 2nd time up the climb I pushed on a bit and then after the roundabout really tried to burst up the steep short hill. Haven't been able to get info off my bike computer but looks like around 220 average watts and peak of over 500w, that last time up the short hill. Calves started to cramp a little coming out of the shoes so knew the run would be fun!

T2 0.25

One of quickest T2 of the day. No problems at all.

Run 2 11.50

Not a huge drop off in time between run 1 and run 2. Better idea of the course so didn't mind the little cramping in my left calf at the start, was moving well downhill anyway so just hopped a little every few strides and it loosened itself out. Had around 30 seconds to make up on next out of T2 so thought it was more about saving my own place than catching him. First 2km were working but keeping something back for the last. Had an idea that this would be were people really suffered so I could make big time up the hill. Lad behind me was catching at a corner around 2km into the run and I was very slowly gaining on lad in front. once the road went up though I dug in and pushed on. Took me about 500m to catch him but eventually did just at the peak of the climb. Took 100m or so running alongside and decided to go for it around 300m out. Stuck with me for a while but with about 100m to go I opened up a little gap and crossed the line 1 second ahead. Not sure on average pace, forgot to stop the watch when I crossed the line. But the 2nd time up the hill I was faster than the first lap by about 8-10 seconds on that km.

overall 53.20 and 4th place.

No idea of my position when I finished, not until the lad behind me was told he was 5th. The top 3 lads were a class apart and they had a different race than the rest of us. Between me and 9th place was 40 seconds so it could have easily turned into a different result. I done very little looking at the watch during this race, I was actually racing instead of looking at a watch and time trialing on the run and bike. If someone pushed on I did too and if I felt good I went for it. Seemed to work today, pleased with how I raced and lots of positives. Strength running up the hill was very pleasing. I try and run my long runs on a hilly enough route near me, it means my average pace is slower than others out there but I like to think it makes me a stronger runner. I think a day like yesterday shows the benefit. My weight probably helped too, I was around low 59kg's on race morning so that has to have an impact. Very pleased with the bike, one of the fastest bikes of the day, even though I felt I was losing time downhill and my roundabout cornering cost me plenty of time. Usually struggle getting power out in aero position but not today, doing all my training in the position seems to be really helping.

So race done and rest of day relaxing. Back to it this week, this block is a little different, going to budapest in 2 weeks for 3 days so will be no training done, I'll try and load up the training a bit before then, take the 3 days off and then finish the block from where I should be when I get back.

joey100

Another weekly update. So no real recovery or rest days after the race last weekend (feels like ages ago!). Monday is an easy run anyway so just stuck to the plan.

Swimming. Missed a session this week. In my defence it wasn't really my fault. I left the house at the usual time but there was a few accidents on the way in and I would normally get to the pool at 7.25, didn't pass it that day until 8.50. So not really my fault, or that's what I'm telling myself anyway! The other two days were good. one was 3x100m +6x100m, easy 150m inbetween, off 1.45 drafting, pleased with this, even drafting the other lads makes me think I can go faster. So when they got out I done the same myself, except reversed the order so 6x100m and 3x100m off 1.45. Held them, rest was getting less but pleased with how it went. Next session was mainly pull, it was 4x(3x100m pull, 4x50m sw). Aiming to try and increase my turnover. It worked. Fastest 100m pull's I've ever swam, Some were low 1.30's. Really concentrated on getting the arms over and pulling. Even though I missed a swim I'm really pleased with how it went this week.

Bike. The plan for this week was to load it up a bit, I'm heading to Budapest on Friday for 3 days so will be 3 days off training. some tough sessions this week, all working off the new FTP. 15x1mins@130%, with 2 recovery. Really happy with this, held the power and got through them all a little above target. Then 90 mins steady with a NP of 200w. 4hours steady with a NP of 175 w on Sat and 4x15 mins Sweet spot last night with 2 recovery between them. Really pleased with the bike, was a little worried about working off the new FTP but seems to be correct. the 130%'s were tough and stayed seated for them all. My initial plan setting out was to be able to hold 170w for 5 hours (or however long it took!) on the Outlaw bike, on Sat I held a little above that for 4hours on the turbo, in the middle of a tough enough week so really happy with that. Still 5 months or so of training so that target might get reviewed, if I could hold 180w @race weight I would be delighted, would put me just over 3w/kg. Around 8 hours on the bike this week.

Run was good too. Nothing too hard, mainly about mileage this week. Bit of steady running mid week that felt comfortable enough. About 5hrs 20 mins of running, including an hour easy run off the 4hour turbo and a 2hour long run on Sunday. Worked off a little lower HR limit for these but pace was decent for the effort and both felt comfortable through the whole thing. Nothing too hard done but a good amount of time on my feet.

On the Turbo and run on Sat I tried a bit of my nutrition plan. I'm going to use high5 gels, just cos they are the ones they give out at the race. Took a few on the bike @ race watts and then 1 on the run. Probably need to take some more, was fading a little towards the end of the run but overall they went well, no sick feeling and went down easy. I took 2 small peanut cacoa bars from aldi on the bike too, the salty bit of these tasted great after the sweet gels so I'll probably look for something like these as well. More for the taste than the energy I get from them.

Sleep was good this week too. Over 8 hours every weeknight and 3x 10 hours means I don't feel too bad at all today. The best week of training yet and the targets I had for Outlaw for the bike and run are already within touching distance. Swim needs more work but even that is seeing improvements.

Only a 4 day week this week and it will be back to the original plan for these, I might lengthen some of the sessions a little but won't be too far over what I had planned.

joey100

So like everyone else my training was all over the place this week, in some ways wasn't too bad, had planned to be going to budapest anyway so the plan was taking that into account so I had 3 days off training anyway, Budapest never happened with cancelled flights so I only took 1 day off instead.

2 Run sessions, all easy nothing fast or hard. Probably should have tried to run more but from the original plan it was only 1 missed session. Swim was only once but it was a good one, 100-400,400-100 pyramid. Pushing the 100's, 200's and one hard 400m. 100's around 1.25, 200's were 3.10 and 3.15 (one was better paced than the other, started too easy on the 3,15 one and couldn't get the time back). 400 was 6.15 so not fast but not millions of miles off where I would like to be either. (my timed pb for 400m is 6.02, I reckon I have been in better condition than that but never timed and it's easy to say that!) Unfortunately that was my only swim this week. 2 missed swims with the weather.

I did do nearly 8 hours altogether on the turbo so some good sessions there. Hardest was a 3x(3x2@120%,3easy). Held what I needed and even though it was tough was a sort of manageable toughness. Really pleased with how the bike is going, I'm holding higher power than ever in aero and I'm enjoying the trainer road sessions.

Big week this week, as planned. Starts handy enough but will increase as it goes. Looking forward to getting back in the pool, recent swim signs have been good so hoping for more gains there.

Sleep was really good though this week! Lots of 10hr + nights! Eating lots too but I'm finding it hard to keep weight on, for the session holding around 290w I was at about 58.5kg. I'd hope for it to not fall too much more but I'm feeling good and eating a lot so I'm not too worried.

Neady83

Sorry to hear the snow put the skids on Budapest Joey.

Was listening to this podcast from Fitter Radio earlier. Good direction on breathing during the swim, TT bike and run to maximise power and reduce stress. Also some good nutritional info from Ali Brownlee and a yumee and calorific sounding brownie recipe that would help you put on some weight

joey100

Cheers Neady, I'll def be checking that out, have listened to more podcasts in the last 6 weeks than in the rest of my life so open to all suggestions!

Ah chocolate brownies, I have a big sweet tooth, I love cakes, sweets anything with sugar really. Except for chocolate cake, chocolate Ice cream and chocolate sauce! I've started eating creamed rice and angel delight by the bowl to increase the daily calories though! Not as much fun as it sounds.

Neady83

joey100 wrote: »

Ah chocolate brownies, I have a big sweet tooth, I love cakes, sweets anything with sugar really. Except for chocolate cake, chocolate Ice cream and chocolate sauce! I've started eating creamed rice and angel delight by the bowl to increase the daily calories though! Not as much fun as it sounds.

There's avocado in the brownies so there's some good fats in there too Have you tried Nobó ice cream? it'd dairy free but packed with calories and made from mostly natural stuff (including avocados).

I don't envy you, I mean I do but I understand how difficult it must be. Stuffing your face with food during races for the sake of it takes all the joy out of it so it must be like that for you a lot of the time.

One of the arses used to struggle in long races and he put it down to not being able to get enough calories into him during training and I recall him saying that he'd eat rice cake and corn cakes covered in something in the evening to make up any calorie deficit.

rooneyjm

Get that plumpy nut stuff they send over to Africa, you’ll have a little pot belly in no time.
Seriously how can you not put weight on, it’s easy

joey100

Don't know, I eat a good bit. Usual weekday would be some overnight oats soaked in natural yogurt and some honey. Then when I get to work a bowl of cereal. Yogurt and a few biscuits at around 11. Decent lunch at 1.30, usually make big bowl of dinner and keep some for lunch, usually mince or meatballs or chicken with rice/quinoa/pasta and some veg. Get home from work and have dinner usually something similar to lunch but bigger portion. After training in the evening or around 8 I usually have bowl of granola mixed with natural yogurt or a bowl of creamed rice. So I eat a fair bit, not a huge amount of sweets or chocolate but I do have some but usually only on weekends and probably 1 day of it.

BTH

joey100 wrote: »

Don't know, I eat a good bit. Usual weekday would be some overnight oats soaked in natural yogurt and some honey. Then when I get to work a bowl of cereal. Yogurt and a few biscuits at around 11. Decent lunch at 1.30, usually make big bowl of dinner and keep some for lunch, usually mince or meatballs or chicken with rice/quinoa/pasta and some veg. Get home from work and have dinner usually something similar to lunch but bigger portion. After training in the evening or around 8 I usually have bowl of granola mixed with natural yogurt or a bowl of creamed rice. So I eat a fair bit, not a huge amount of sweets or chocolate but I do have some but usually only on weekends and probably 1 day of it.

You don't eat enough protein. Two medium sized portions a day isn't enough for you. I used to have the same problem, weight I couldn't afford to lose was dropping. Upped protein significantly and I'm much better off for it. Every time you eat should contain protein, and at least three good portions a day. No egg no fish in your diet, that's where I would start

Edit: and nuts. Eat nuts and nut butter, not peanut.

zico10

BTH wrote: »

Edit: and nuts. Eat nuts and nut butter, not peanut.

What's wrong with peanut butter?