Looking for a starting point for building a 'chat' application

The Corinthian

ideaburst wrote: »

I don't see a strong similarity. This would be for interacting online primarily, whilst Meetup is more a platform for driving offline interaction.

I'm not sure what your app is supposed to be for then. You say it's "an app that would allow people who have moved abroad to connect with people from their home countries in their new location". So, once you've connected, what then?

Meeting up is one of the most obvious things that would follow, and that's how Meetup.com is used by expats. But if you want to just keep things virtual, then pretty much everywhere has expat Web fora or email lists; and not just for Anglophones.

I've been living abroad for a good few years and that's how I've found it works, and it tends to work quite well because those who set up these sites or lists are actually resident locally.

Well it would be a global proposition, even though we'd focus on the Irish angle first. I don't really agree though, you can see how Polish people hang out together even here in Ireland, same goes for Irish people abroad to a large extent.

Depends where you are and if any national group is large enough. Where I live there's quite a few Brits, some Americans, but Irish - very few. The Poles my be able to socialize together in Ireland, but they're a big expat group in Ireland, they're not so big in Kenya, or Singapore and thus will socialize with others.

Plus the meeting up aspect is only one element, it's more about sharing information online, helping each other out, and generally capitalising on the 'we're in this together' aspects, etc.

Sure, I totally agree, which is why I would be concerned about something which is principally on a mobile platform. For example, I would never bother my arse typing out this reply on a mobile. Unless you can facilitate "sharing information online" or "helping each other out" with a few quick clicks, you're not going to get much content posted via touchpad.

I think the big question is whether our app or website would prove enticing and / or valuable enough to have users spend time on it, when strictly speaking they could be spending all their time on these other sites. We'd be starting from scratch while these other platforms obviously have a massive head start (and huge existing communities).

And there you have it, in a nutshell. What can you offer that these other communities can or do not?

The impression I've gotten from the onset of this thread is that you've been blinded by what is, I'll fully accept, a potentially exciting market to tap into, but ultimately, you've done very little research into it and you're bringing bugger all new to the table.

ideaburst

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'm not sure what your app is supposed to be for then. You say it's "an app that would allow people who have moved abroad to connect with people from their home countries in their new location". So, once you've connected, what then?

Meeting up is one of the most obvious things that would follow, and that's how Meetup.com is used by expats. But if you want to just keep things virtual, then pretty much everywhere has expat Web fora or email lists; and not just for Anglophones.

It's an obvious outcome, but just continuing to interact primarily or exclusively online are equally obvious outcomes. Out of all the people you might connect with in a given week on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram or whichever network you favour - how many do you actually meet up with in real life? How many Boardsies have you met in real life?!

You are abroad, so I'm guessing there are a lot of people you 'connect' with online but rarely if ever meet. 'Connect' in current parlance means just that, interacting online very often without any intention of meeting. And there is huge value in that in life, otherwise the likes of Twitter, LinkedIn, etc wouldn't have gotten very far.

The Corinthian wrote: »

I've been living abroad for a good few years and that's how I've found it works, and it tends to work quite well because those who set up these sites or lists are actually resident locally.

Depends where you are and if any national group is large enough. Where I live there's quite a few Brits, some Americans, but Irish - very few. The Poles my be able to socialize together in Ireland, but they're a big expat group in Ireland, they're not so big in Kenya, or Singapore and thus will socialize with others.

Our focus would be on Anglophone nations to begin with, and British population in Australia is quite large, for example. Likewise the Canadian population in the US is large, and vice versa.

The Corinthian wrote: »

Sure, I totally agree, which is why I would be concerned about something which is principally on a mobile platform. For example, I would never bother my arse typing out this reply on a mobile. Unless you can facilitate "sharing information online" or "helping each other out" with a few quick clicks, you're not going to get much content posted via touchpad.

True, but in line with the points above, the emphasis would be on fairly light, quick-fire exchanges of info and tips - with an emphasis on interacting as opposed to reams of information and content. Think Twitter-level interaction, basically.

The Corinthian wrote: »

And there you have it, in a nutshell. What can you offer that these other communities can or do not?

The impression I've gotten from the onset of this thread is that you've been blinded by what is, I'll fully accept, a potentially exciting market to tap into, but ultimately, you've done very little research into it and you're bringing bugger all new to the table.

We have done research, even though I haven't referred to it here. The thread started as a discussion on the potential technical solutions available, not the merits of the idea itself.

At the same time, there is only so much research you can do for a concept like this. It is quite 'broad', it's not like it's a software solution for a particular target market / customer, where you can say 'there are X professionals in this particular sector who have a need for our product, and we envisage a price point of Y for the basic package' etc.

I know all about the importance of research - I even use it in my own work - but sometimes it only gets you so far. It's a bit like Instagram starting off talking about how many people they believe take photos on a regular basis, and how they envisage capturing x% of them or something.

On what value we are adding, it will be a dedicated platform for people moving abroad who are looking to connect with emigrants and travellers from their own country. Of course there are multiple avenues for this already, but we feel we are bringing a much more '2014' solution here which fits in perfectly with the mobile / social / local generation (something which staid forums don't really do).

So, it's a dedicated solution focused on a specific sub-set of people (emigrants and travellers). Strictly speaking it can also be used by people on holidays or just away for a break. Not the only way for people to 'connect' as we both agree, but neither was (is) Facebook the only way for people to 'network', for example. There are lots of networks out there which can serve the same purpose, but it doesn't mean that a dedicated one can't also succeed.

The Corinthian

ideaburst wrote: »

You are abroad, so I'm guessing there are a lot of people you 'connect' with online but rarely if ever meet. 'Connect' in current parlance means just that, interacting online very often without any intention of meeting. And there is huge value in that in life, otherwise the likes of Twitter, LinkedIn, etc wouldn't have gotten very far.

Indeed, why do you think I post here? So I hardly even need an expats site to keep online contact with other Irish.

Our focus would be on Anglophone nations to begin with, and British population in Australia is quite large, for example. Likewise the Canadian population in the US is large, and vice versa.

Fair enough, but then your model isn't as universal as you originally implied. It's now become "some people who have moved abroad to connect with people from their home countries in their new location", because it doesn't work for everyone, everywhere.

We have done research, even though I haven't referred to it here.

And I've vetted start-ups professionally, for a long time.

The thread started as a discussion on the potential technical solutions available, not the merits of the idea itself.

Honestly, the technical side of things is easy. It's the business model and a competent execution of the idea that's important and that you should be looking for advice on.

On the technical side of things, all I would recommend is not to try building an initial 'beta' version, that can be 'expanded' later. You're not there yet and are better off building something designed to bring in investment capital, that you can learn from and that can be thrown away later.

On what value we are adding, it will be a dedicated platform for people moving abroad who are looking to connect with emigrants and travellers from their own country. Of course there are multiple avenues for this already, but we feel we are bringing a much more '2014' solution here which fits in perfectly with the mobile / social / local generation (something which staid forums don't really do).

How do they not do this? Buzzwords aside, what do you mean?

There are lots of networks out there which can serve the same purpose, but it doesn't mean that a dedicated one can't also succeed.

As I already said, there's actually quite a few dedicated one's already. Every country has a few - certainly at least one English one, as well as Spanish, Chinese or whatever group has a large enough immigrant population in the local country. You should take a look at some of them and see if the information (about local laws, regulations, jobs and social get-together's) would fit in 140 characters; if not you may want to consider your model.

Seriously, these are easy points I'm making. If you're looking for any serious amount of funding, you'll likely be raked over the coals a lot more - I've been on both sides of that interrogation, I can assure you.

GreeBo

if you are distinguishing yourself from meetup.com type of sites/apps then I dont see why the people need to be linked by country (parent country otherwise)

If Im not going to meet people, rather just chat to them online, why do I care where they are from reallly?

Any besides, any free online chat site has an Irish room, a German room, etc...I think you are filling a niche that doesnt exist.

As above, the tech bit is easy, there isnt really anything crazy being done in 99% of tech companies, maybe when you start to get into scale and the other -ities. You dont seem to have scale, its "just" a chat portal...you could download one and configure it in two mins...whats to stop me or anyone doing the same? You dont have any first mover advantage or anything to set you apart.

I think I'll have to go Duncan Bannatyne on this one Im afraid.

ideaburst

Yeah this is the thing really. We have gotten a bit carried away by the fact that it is a cool idea that taps into an exciting area, but realistically it doesn't feel like there is anything tangible separating us from the Facebooks, Twitters and the multitude of online fora out there already.

The Corinthian

ideaburst wrote: »

Yeah this is the thing really. We have gotten a bit carried away by the fact that it is a cool idea that taps into an exciting area, but realistically it doesn't feel like there is anything tangible separating us from the Facebooks, Twitters and the multitude of online fora out there already.

I wouldn't necessarily give up on your idea though.

I did a consultancy gig a few years ago for a start-up, whereby I was engaged to get them to a point where they had a solid (or as solid as is possible) business model, a technology roadmap, a prototype and secured a nice chunk of money from a VC. I told them within three minutes of our first meeting that whatever their business model was then, it was almost certainly not going to be by the time we were finished working together. In the end their business model changed, and much of the original idea morphed, over time, into something almost unrecognisable, but which at least made money and investors had confidence in.

Most difficult part of that process is to break through the almost religious faith in the 'idea' that the would-be entrepreneur has. To instead view it as a business - to consider the bread and butter, before the jam, as it were. If you're already at a point where you are willing to sanity check yourself and your idea, then you're already at a point where you'll be able to look for a better business model (if one exists, of course).

ideaburst

The Corinthian wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily give up on your idea though.

I did a consultancy gig a few years ago for a start-up, whereby I was engaged to get them to a point where they had a solid (or as solid as is possible) business model, a technology roadmap, a prototype and secured a nice chunk of money from a VC. I told them within three minutes of our first meeting that whatever their business model was then, it was almost certainly not going to be by the time we were finished working together. In the end their business model changed, and much of the original idea morphed, over time, into something almost unrecognisable, but which at least made money and investors had confidence in.

Most difficult part of that process is to break through the almost religious faith in the 'idea' that the would-be entrepreneur has. To instead view it as a business - to consider the bread and butter, before the jam, as it were. If you're already at a point where you are willing to sanity check yourself and your idea, then you're already at a point where you'll be able to look for a better business model (if one exists, of course).

Cheers Corinthian.

If there is anyone on here who is open to feedback, especially in terms of a prospective business model, it's me! Definitely not giving up on our idea, and myself and my biz partner are definitely going ahead with this pitch to potential investors in a couple of weeks. After reflecting further and taking account of the feedback on here however, we are going to be as clear as possible on what we are actually looking to build - and how we see it making money.

We are actually going to focus far more on the location-based elements of the app than the informational aspects, as that is what we are more attracted to and it is where we feel the potential lies. We have gone back and forth a bit on what we want the concept to actually be, but the original idea started out with the emphasis squarely on the location elements, and finding out who from your home country is in your new location. As you say yourself, the informational angles are already more than well covered by the myriad expat fora and blogs, etc, out there already.

The location elements will of course apply to the use case of someone moving abroad, but it could equally apply to someone on a business trip in Dubai, for example. The app can function as a 'launchpad' for what you want to do or achieve in your new location, be it asking about local networking events in the case of a business traveler, or just asking where is good to head out to at the weekend.

We do think we have something here, and as for the business model, we also believe that the combination of location + nationality could prove enticing to advertisers and other parties. In other words, you know that in x stream you have Irish people in Dubai, British people in Perth, etc.