FAE September 2014

20 Times 20 Times

Dellboy2007 wrote: »

The institute have inadvertently released the indicators from the 2014 core exam in their new FAE leaflet. See page 31. No surprises but I thought some may be interested:

http://students.charteredaccountants.ie/Global/student_services/FAE%202015%20Pre-Christmas/Pre-Christmas%20Notes/Pre-Christmas%20Notices/FAE%20Explained%20-%202014%202015.pdf

Nearly fell off the chair in work and seen that finance day 2 was invoice discounting and not OVERTRADING !!!!!

I think I've failed on finance now :-(

Feel very deflated now.

iwishihadaname

20 Times 20 Times wrote: »

Nearly fell off the chair in work and seen that finance day 2 was invoice discounting and not OVERTRADING !!!!!

I think I've failed on finance now :-(

Feel very deflated now.

Everyone should stop torturing themselves, nobody knows what the story is until the Nov 21st! (And this is coming from the biggest worrier I know!)

Honestly I was making myself sick worrying about how I answered this and that, then I realised it's so pointless. If you haven't done it already throw your papers in the fire, that made me feel alot better about the whole thing anyway!

GraGra90

Dellboy2007 wrote: »

The institute have inadvertently released the indicators from the 2014 core exam in their new FAE leaflet. See page 31. No surprises but I thought some may be interested: (had to remove the URL from the quote as Boards wouldn't let me post otherwise)

Hi All - Grainne from CASSI here - just to clarify a couple of points for everyone:

1. CAI intentionally released the document - that is the Education Team's view/interpretation of the paper which was completed a couple of months ago (pre-marking) and is not necessarily the exact same as the FAE Board who set the paper (though there shouldn't be massive divergence though some things may be laid out differently etc.)

2. As always - once you addressed the issue and gave a valid response you will get the credit for it - doesn't matter if you saw an issue in a different way - if you outlined your understanding and gave a valid answer you'll be fine!

On a personal level - I treated a couple of things differently to what's on that document e.g. the valuation of the company where I just did a valuation and didn't really mention much to do with the IP other than a few caveats to the valuation so I'm just as reliant on the above points as everyone else.

I'm trying not to think about results myself - just want to know one way or the other - don't think anyone can feel safe! Fingers crossed

If anyone has any further queries give me a shout and I can get clarifications from CAI if necessary.

TheDoctor

We've all failed and should go to the lectures this weekend

Dellboy2007

GraGra90 wrote: »

1. CAI intentionally released the document - that is the Education Team's view/interpretation of the paper which was completed a couple of months ago (pre-marking) and is not necessarily the exact same as the FAE Board who set the paper (though there shouldn't be massive divergence though some things may be laid out differently etc.) .

It would be fairly incompetent to be releasing a statement saying the indicators if that wasn't the case. Also, I checked one of the indicators that they had supposedly "mapped" to a case study and not surprisingly there was nothing about it in that case study. Maybe they are incompetent come to think of it.

GraGra90

Dellboy2007 wrote: »

It would be fairly incompetent to be releasing a statement saying the indicators if that wasn't the case. Also, I checked one of the indicators that they had supposedly "mapped" to a case study and not surprisingly there was nothing about it in that case study. Maybe they are incompetent come to think of it.

Thanks for that - I haven't checked them out myself - what one was it and I'll have a look?

Dellboy2007

GraGra90 wrote: »

Thanks for that - I haven't checked them out myself - what one was it and I'll have a look?

Responsibilities of directors is not in lucky star

myshirt

I think it is EXTREMELY disingenuous to say those that followed the programme as set out in the planner would perform well.

There are inadequacies that the institute need to address, they have acknowledged that under a programme of continuous improvement. So to make that statement, it's outrageous.

A lot of people at this time owe their passes to either Chartered Grind School, Paul Monahan by himself, or themselves. Likely in reverse order.

I think there needs to be a strong movement on fees and that needs to be an area of focus for CASSI. The institute can go get stuffed on their mandatory lectures - it is pure protection of fees. Students should be able to choose their own education provider. Let the institute compete for the fees.

A large cohort pass this without any recourse to the institute. The initiative is nothing to do with bettering the student experience.

An outrageous statement to make.

TheDoctor

LETS BOYCOTT THE INSTITUTE!!!

Dellboy2007

I agree. I think the same as many others, that the exam is very much dependent on the day. You could sit the same exam on another day and get a completely different result, regardless of how many classes you attended, etc.

I know where I made mistakes, but that doesn't mean I'd necessarily do better a second time around. Especially when you have to wait a bloody year to do it. I hear there are talks of bringing in a repeat. If they did (next year or after presumably), the pass rates would inevitably fall. I suspect they may drop a bit this year, I really hope they don't but sure we'll see.

myshirt

Dellboy2007 wrote: »

It would be fairly incompetent to be releasing a statement saying the indicators if that wasn't the case.

Good point.

I think on that basis, they are the indicators.

GraGra90 wrote: »

As always - once you addressed the issue and gave a valid response you will get the credit for it - doesn't matter if you saw an issue in a different way - if you outlined your understanding and gave a valid answer you'll be fine!

True statement.

Didn't Joanne Powell go to lengths to explain this, albeit I was alarmed by the anecdote attaching to her illustration. Nevertheless, point was made. So I think guys if you have responded to the issue as you seen it, you'll be marked on that basis. You'll be fine.

autumnbelle

20 Times 20 Times wrote: »

Nearly fell off the chair in work and seen that finance day 2 was invoice discounting and not OVERTRADING !!!!!

I think I've failed on finance now :-(

Feel very deflated now.

Invoice discounting can't remember the paper but definitely never picked up that

TheDoctor

LOccitane wrote: »

Have been getting quite worried about them... (But then I have been from the moment they were finished). Getting very anxious now as we get nearer to the date...

From speaking to people connected or familiar with those correcting the papers; the first round marking on CORE produced some very low pass rate trends...

In my case; I'll be in a time zone GMT - 6 for the results day; so at least it will just be a case of staying up late rather than all night.

Any more news from your sources?

bonni

autumnbelle wrote: »

Invoice discounting can't remember the paper but definitely never picked up that

I saw Ronan O'Loughlin after the exams. I said that I picked up on ethical indicator in Sim1, he said yeah, there was an ethical issue with revenue recognition. Where does Invoice discounting fit in Sim1?

lydia123

I can't remember word for word, but your boss was telling you how they had grown so much and that debtors had gotten a bit out of control and that they were looking at factoring and invoice discounting as a way of getting the debt in and they wanted you to look at it.
I actually said do neither (after doing my calculations of course!!) and to hire a good credit controller who could help out on other parts of the finance function as the company was growing so much they were going to need more staff anyway!
Liam Doran would be proud.

GR3YFOXXX

Fear is kicking in big time now. This is painful.

barbie_j

the exam is over folks. we should enjoy the last few days before the big day, some of us will fail, some of us will pass and celebrate and get a big fat bonus and of course, a fab Xmas. I failed the exam last year, painful days and cried all the time. but you know what, for the ppl who failed the exam the first time, they will learn more about life, about how to control your nerve, about how to accept bad news, and mostly important, the term ' hard working'.

TheDoctor

WE'RE ALL DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMEDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!

GR3YFOXXX

Last year a load of people said that if they passed they would donate 100e of their bonus to charity. I would like to kick this off again this year and will happily donate 100e if I pass.

Dellboy2007

GR3YFOXXX wrote: »

Last year a load of people said that if they passed they would donate 100e of their bonus to charity. I would like to kick this off again this year and will happily donate 100e if I pass.

I really cannot even entertain thoughts of what I'll do with the money until I have it in writing that I've passed. Good idea though.

TheDoctor

If I pass I'll pay my water charge

m1ck007

Anyone else feel under pressure because all your friends, family, work collegues etc believe u will pass even though deep down u know it will be 50:50

LOccitane

m1ck007 wrote: »

Anyone else feel under pressure because all your friends, family, work collegues etc believe u will pass even though deep down u know it will be 50:50

Ditto all the way. I get this constant: 'Oh; you will definitely pass' mantra; but nobody realises just how marginal it will be for most of us.

To be honest; I'm getting very worked up about them at this point. I think the charitable donation is a fantastic idea and I'll certainly be doing it if I pass.

I haven't heard anything other than what I mentioned previously - again that was at the early stages of marking. All considered though; I'd be shocked if the pass rate doesn't trend down this year.

20 Times 20 Times

I will donate 100 euro to barretstown if I pass!!

TheDoctor

Has anyone heard anything about the Audit Elective correcting?

myshirt

http://www.charteredaccountants.ie/en/General/News-and-Events/News1/2014/October/FAE-Results-2014--Refresher-SessionTraining-for-Firms/

Potentially could get overall stats on the 10th of November; firm results also available at that point.

'Not open to students'.... anyone have a fake mustache they could loan out?

GR3YFOXXX

myshirt wrote: »

Potentially could get overall stats on the 10th of November; firm results also available at that point.

'Not open to students'.... anyone have a fake mustache they could loan out?

I don't think that suggests that overall results will be available to mangers etc

m1ck007

Firm results also available at what point? what are firm results?

TheDoctor

m1ck007 wrote: »

Firm results also available at what point? what are firm results?

They would be results which wouldn't be too laid back, but not the most strict either

GraGra90

Confirmed with Paul Monahan re Lucky Star & directors responsibilities - there was a bit in there about not trading while insolvent and directors duties around same. In the mapping document it was just to say that the overall topic had been touched on in those cases though it was not necessarily examined in the same way so for that one - it was directors responsibilities as a whole was the topic and the responsibility of directors in relation to trading while insolvent was in that specific case.

Also - that briefing happens every year and is open to the Learning & Development/HR people from the firms as they're the ones who'll be dealing with students who don't pass - hopefully not too many of us! No results or anything like that will be published until the morning of the 21st so the firms won't know your results til you do!

Can't believe there's another 2 weeks to go CASSI weekend will hopefully be a good distraction - I still feel sick at the thought of results at this stage, just want to see the word PASS - don't give a monkies after that!

cod11

Passed CAP 1 & 2 first time with not too much bother.

Passed APM (decile 3) in 2012. All greens in core in 2012 except BL which I got a red in. 2013, all greens in core (including BL) bar PM which I got a red in that time.

Missed out on the bonus and a promotion in the meantime because of it...brutal stuff all together.

This exam is rediculous stuff. And totally unfair. I think I did a good bit better in my approach (hopefully!!) this year so please god i get my name picked out of the hat.

Anyway, my advice to the folks who end up not getting the luck this year is accept that youre going to feel like absolute sh!te for the first few weeks. its pretty deflating. But DO NOT think that youre not capable of this exam...its pot luck and how on the ball you are on the day. Although its been a rough ride the past 2 years, its really put it up to me. Ive learned I can deal with really tough situations and can handle them...Itll be a test to see what youre made of, but youll be a better person for it in the end! Turn the deflation and disappointment into focus, and use it as an asset.

I hope I didn't come across too negative ...takes it out of you waiting around this long.

Best of luck to everyone

TheDoctor

And good luck to you cod11, after three goes you've certainly done you're time!

Dellboy2007

cod11 wrote: »

Passed CAP 1 & 2 first time with not too much bother.

Passed APM (decile 3) in 2012. All greens in core in 2012 except BL which I got a red in. 2013, all greens in core (including BL) bar PM which I got a red in that time.

Missed out on the bonus and a promotion in the meantime because of it...brutal stuff all together.

This exam is rediculous stuff. And totally unfair. I think I did a good bit better in my approach (hopefully!!) this year so please god i get my name picked out of the hat.

Anyway, my advice to the folks who end up not getting the luck this year is accept that youre going to feel like absolute sh!te for the first few weeks. its pretty deflating. But DO NOT think that youre not capable of this exam...its pot luck and how on the ball you are on the day. Although its been a rough ride the past 2 years, its really put it up to me. Ive learned I can deal with really tough situations and can handle them...Itll be a test to see what youre made of, but youll be a better person for it in the end! Turn the deflation and disappointment into focus, and use it as an asset.

I hope I didn't come across too negative ...takes it out of you waiting around this long.

Best of luck to everyone

Really routing for you as well, third time lucky as they say.

Do you mind me asking, did you review your script? What way did that process work? What decile did you get in the core each time? And finally, how many C's do you reckon you got in PM and BL each year.

cod11

Thanks lads.

Dellboy, I got sufficiency of 7 in both.

Not a clue how many C's I got on the areas I went down in...i pressume not too many .

They don't let you see your script.I got the tutorial report last year...a complete waste of time. Very generic responses, and I doesn't really tell you why you went down. I'd hesitate getting it...but sure lets not be even thinking about that at this stage!!hopefully there'll be no tutorial report applications this year

cod11

Sorry decile of 7!!

cod11

Wouldnt be much point repeating it if I was getting a sufficiency sufficiency of 7!

Dellboy2007

I'm a little surprised you didn't tear the solution apart after only failing on one red and getting all other greens. If it was me i'd be analysing it to the bone and working out how many c's i got in the red area based on the solution, etc. I'm also shocked that your decile was 7 despite getting 5 greens, I would have thought if someone got 5 greens their suffiency would have been a lot higher than the 7th tier. After all a green means you clearly met the competent standard. Makes me wonder what decile do people who get 6 yellows and sufficency 0 get. The system is seriously flawed. Thanks for that anyway.

cod11

You can't get above a decile 7 if you fail considering approx 25% of people fail ie bottom 30%.

I met ''competent'' in the areas i got green in. Not in the red area.

I did analyse it, believe me. Alot. I went into the institute, had arguments over not being able to see my paper etc....it gets you nowhere. IMO i should have passed last year...but believe me, there is no point in hassling yourself. It gets you nowhere

Dellboy2007

Technically you could as decile is based purely on sufficency, whereas you failed the depth test in both years by getting a red in PM/BL.

FAEfirsttimer

I think the marking scheme is crazy for these exams, and in some cases overly complex. Hearing horror stories like people having all green and one red and having a year wait to repeat sounds awful.

Not sure how everyone else feels but I am nervous as hell but trying not to show it. The exam itself and the results are haunting my dreams on a regular basis, just wish I could be put at ease.

Out of interest, does anyone know anything about fees for repeating and when class begins for repeaters? Or on the flip side, I read about the graduation ceremony in Feb what is this about? Would you need your CA Diary submitted before this?

Best of luck everyone, hopefully they feel generous on the 21st and pass us all lol

myshirt

FAEfirsttimer wrote: »

I think the marking scheme is crazy for these exams, and in some cases overly complex. Hearing horror stories like people having all green and one red and having a year wait to repeat sounds awful.

Not sure how everyone else feels but I am nervous as hell but trying not to show it. The exam itself and the results are haunting my dreams on a regular basis, just wish I could be put at ease.

Out of interest, does anyone know anything about fees for repeating and when class begins for repeaters? Or on the flip side, I read about the graduation ceremony in Feb what is this about? Would you need your CA Diary submitted before this?

Best of luck everyone, hopefully they feel generous on the 21st and pass us all lol

Make sure you post on results day!

On the repeats, they are generally €600ish. It is an extra €100 for the elective, and €70 for the AAFRP. In terms of the revision course, it is about another €600 and includes sitting the mocks. You cannot under any circumstances sit the mocks unless you have paid your €600 for the revision course. They will release a document on results day which will give you the costs/the forms etc.

In my view, the mocks are a good opportunity to feel out where you are at as a repeat student, so they are worthwhile

Books are c. €100.

Opportunity Cost - €XXXXX (let's not go there)

If you pass - joining fees are €900 if you pay by 28 November 2014 (to get admittance to the roll asap). You then pay €550 subscription fee in January, and annually thereafter.


CA Diary - have it in by 28 November with your cheque, and you'll be on the roll before you know it. They meet just before Christmas to count the money review the diaries. Then you wait.

FAEfirsttimer

myshirt wrote: »

Make sure you post on results day!

On the repeats, they are generally €600ish. It is an extra €100 for the elective, and €70 for the AAFRP. In terms of the revision course, it is about another €600 and includes sitting the mocks. You cannot under any circumstances sit the mocks unless you have paid your €600 for the revision course. They will release a document on results day which will give you the costs/the forms etc.

In my view, the mocks are a good opportunity to feel out where you are at as a repeat student, so they are worthwhile

Books are c. €100.

Joining fees are €900 if you pay by 28 November 2014 (to get admittance to the roll asap). You then pay €550 subscription fee in January, and annually thereafter.

Thanks for quick reply, really appreciate it. I really wish I don't have to worry about repeats but unfortunately it's one of those things.

There's some money to made if there are repeaters, hope they maintain the pass mark at c. 75% this year. Would gladly take being the actual 75th %.

Myshirt, how did you feel the exams went and is this your first attempt? I seen that link to the mapped indicators last week and checked what I came up with against it, was happy enough with finding indicators i am just worried about the content of my answers and whether it's enough to get by.

myshirt

FAEfirsttimer wrote: »

Thanks for quick reply, really appreciate it. I really wish I don't have to worry about repeats but unfortunately it's one of those things.

There's some money to made if there are repeaters, hope they maintain the pass mark at c. 75% this year. Would gladly take being the actual 75th %.

Myshirt, how did you feel the exams went and is this your first attempt? I seen that link to the mapped indicators last week and checked what I came up with against it, was happy enough with finding indicators i am just worried about the content of my answers and whether it's enough to get by.

Personally... I think I have failed, again.

I will say that they are no easier the second time around. It is all on the day. Mental strength got me, just not up to par.

On the content of your answers - look at the marking methodology - at it's basics, you need to have demonstrated an acceptable level of technical ability, and made some level of a sensible recommendation across the board. If you have done that, keep the chin up.

The main thing is to not have walked out of that exam hall having left something behind you. If you done your best in the circumstances, you done your best. Fail, so what. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move on. Just the way it is.

FAEfirsttimer

myshirt wrote: »

Personally... I think I have failed, again.

I will say that they are no easier the second time around. It is all on the day. Mental strength got me, just not up to par.

On the content of your answers - look at the marking methodology - at it's basics, you need to have demonstrated an acceptable level of technical ability, and made some level of a sensible recommendation across the board. If you have done that, keep the chin up.

The main thing is to not have walked out of that exam hall having left something behind you. If you done your best in the circumstances, you done your best. Fail, so what. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move on. Just the way it is.

Good advice. I am not worried about actually failing, I can get over that. I can get buy without a bonus and an additional pay rise to be honest just to have Saturday's back lol. Having done CAP 1&2 I am fed up at this stage.

The thoughts of going at it again and having the same wait for result kills me. I believe I put my best answers forward for all the indicators except one pm one which I completely misread, but I am hopeful that my C in the AARPF will save that. Like we all say, it's down to the individual on the day some hopefully there's enough there, as it likely that everyone sitting the exams is capable of passing it, otherwise we never have got to this level.

Just a quick question on the AARPF exam, does this count as just one indicator? But harsh if it does considering the amount of effort that goes into it compared to, say, the ias 18 indicator on the 2nd day. Lol maybe I'm pulling at straws and looking help here since I certainly messed up one pm

myshirt

AAFRP is only one indicator, yes. People put a significant amount of effort into it. I hear what the institute are saying when they advise not to get consumed by the AAFRP, but I just get the feeling it is worth it.

These guys won't compromise on FR, and they only compromise on Audit because the methodology won't allow them to nail you. Why do they do this? Because it says Chartered Accountant on the wall, not something else. They are Chartered Accountants.

So FR, Audit and Ethics - if you are sh!t, I just get the feeling alarm bells go off. And god knows they let through some donkeys in the past and don't want to do it again.

Dellboy2007

AAFRP is worth one indicator.

PM and BL are where you will pass or fail. 5 PM indicators and 4 BL indicators. I would find it hard to imagine 74% (assuming pass rates remain the same - which i don't think they will but anyway) getting more than 2 C's in each. Therefore I reckon that will be the minimum you will need to get your yellow. So one C in AAFRP and another C in PM could be enough, this is what i'm telling myself anyway hashtag kantkope

FAEfirsttimer

I only wish it was worth two indiciators would help me feel a bit better.. On a positive spin, what are you guys going to do if you pass? I have read about people going to donate some of their bonus to charity, anyone got any exciting plans?

I think if i manage to pass I will probably spent all day in bed crying with happiness .. actually it could be that way no matter how they go

FAEfirsttimer

Dellboy2007 wrote: »

AAFRP is worth one indicator.

PM and BL are where you will pass or fail. 5 PM indicators and 4 BL indicators. I would find it hard to imagine 74% (assuming pass rates remain the same - which i don't think they will but anyway) getting more than 2 C's in each. Therefore I reckon that will be the minimum you will need to get your yellow. So one C in AAFRP and another C in PM could be enough, this is what i'm telling myself anyway hashtag kantkope

If it is 2/5 (PM) and 2/4 (BL) then that seems reasonable. Might start telling myself that too lol. Dont we need to get Green in BL and PM and yellow in the other four? I am so confused about this whole marking thing. I watched the online lecture regarding it but I think I have confused myself completely

TheDoctor

To make myself feel better I'll go read the 2013 thread and see how the people who passed felt on the lead up to results day, hopefully they all thought they would fail

Dellboy2007

FAEfirsttimer wrote: »

Dont we need to get Green in BL and PM and yellow in the other four?

You could pass with 6 yellows, and some people do. You could also fail with 6 yellows by not passing sufficency. A yellow means you met the minimum standard to be deemed competent in that area.

I'll give you a high level overview and hopefully you will understand:

Sufficency is basically your score overall. You have to get a certain score which will be based on the number of C's and RC's you get.

Depth refers to the number of C's you get in PM/BL. So if you get 4 C's in PM you'd get a green, if you got 2 C's you might get a yellow. It all depends on the number of C's the institute say you have to get (this is how they manipulate pass rates btw).

Breadth refers to the number of RC's you get in the 4 other subjects (Audit, Tax, etc). Same story as above, if you got 2 RC's in one area you'd get a Green, if you got one RC you'd probably get a Yellow. Again it depends on the number of RCs the institute says you have to get in that particular area.


Make sense?

So take for example a guy who gets 5 Greens and 1 Red, he likely got a good overall score (sufficency) but he got a red in one area meaning he didn't get enough C's or RC's in one subject (Depth/Breadth)