Out of curiosity....

nobbo

Bit of an argument last night while on the beer and need it settled for a bet.

If someone sold another person drugs(ecstasy was the topic of conversation), and the taker died from the drugs they were given, what legal situation would the dealer be in? Could they be tried for murder etc..?

Thanks in advance...I'll split the €10 with whoever backs my side up

Cody Pomeray

The law goes all the way back to 1775 on this question, to the case of Holman v Johnson. The general principle is ex turpi causa non oritur actio, i.e. that an illegal act cannot found an action where it is taken by one of the wrongdoers.

A criminal liability may still arise, however. The criminal law and the civil law have different public policy considerations.

So the seller of the drug probably cannot be sued (anyway, the purchaser is dead), but he can be found guilty of a criminal offence.

This exact question, i.e. tort/ criminal liability in sale of illegal drug causing death was discussed in R. v Wacker (Perry) [2002] EWCA Crim 1944; [2003] Q.B. 1207.

edit
Another interesting question might be whether the dead man's family might successfully sue the seller.

Victor

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The law goes all the way back to 1775 on this question, to the case of Holman v Johnson. The general principle is ex turpi causa non oritur actio, i.e. that an illegal act cannot found an action where it is taken by one of the wrongdoers.

...

So the seller of the drug probably cannot be sued (anyway, the purchaser is dead), but he can be found guilty of a criminal offence.

Haven't the courts moderated their attitude to this - that they won't tolerate a major offender getting away with something, simply because the victim committed an act that was technically illegal*, e.g. they would allow a case where an off-licence sold poisonous(!) alcohol at 10.01pm.


* I realise the law is technical.

Cody Pomeray

Yes you are perfectly right, the law has evolved and simple breaches of the law do not abolish a civil liability. In fact, I incorrectly use the word "illegal" above, where I should say "wrong in itself".

There is a certain overlap, but not always (e.g. your 10.01pm sale of alcohol scenario)

see S. 57 (1) of the Civil Liability Act 1961.

It shall not be a defence in an action of tort merely to show that the plaintiff is in breach of the civil or criminal law.

Nevertheless, there is still no tortious liability for the seller of the fatal drug, because the sale of ecstasy would be wrong in itself, and not some regulatory offence, as per Wacker, above.

Also, in Anderson v. Cooke [2005] IEHC 221, and National Coal Board v England.

The distinction between 'legally wrong' and 'wrong in itself' remains irrelevant when it cones to the criminal law, since even a joint act or transaction that is wrong in itself may not (or never will?) abolish a criminal liability.

Carawaystick

Considering more people die from peanuts than e, it'd be fairly unlikely anyway.

Consider the more likely scenario of a shopkeeper selling more than 6 grammes of paracetamol and a person dying from an overdose, as paracetamol is actually a killer drug

Or what would happen if the e taker drank too much water like Leah Betts and died having taken e but not from it?

Cody Pomeray

Criminal liability still arises. It is a criminal offence to sell a controlled drug even where no damage occurs.

I see no new reason as to why a civil liability should arise. A defect in cell water regulation is one of the possible sequelæ of MDMA consumption. No grown adult can fail to be alive to the danger of placing an unknowable, unregular chemical cocktail in the body, although having said that, the relevance of such stupidity is uncertain.

Far more important is the fact that the seller and the purchaser were bound together in a joint enterprise which the justice system glares upon with special revulsion, that is to say, dealing in controlled drugs, which gives rise to so many secondary and related crises in Irish society. For the purchaser to take a civil action against the seller would be almost inevitably unthinkable.

Carawaystick

Drinking too much water'll kill you, with or without the mdma