House Prices in Dublin South

gaius c

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm not sure how I'd feel about house prices in good areas of Dublin (the right parts of the North side: Clontarf, Howth etc. seem to be the same as SCD). One thing I would feel confident about had I the money would be investing in a development involving 3/4 bed family homes in any of these areas.

You have contradicted yourself in the space of two sentances.

Scortho

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I think the issue of using one price and saying that is the correct price is the flaw in the thinking. To claim prices have gone up by 32% is actually incorrect. One house sold for 32% more than an other with a year gap from the sales. That is actually what happened. It has no extra meaning about the entire market on that street. It is too simplistic to think that.

Pointing to the most recent price and claiming that is the anomaly is also flawed thinking. Why isn't the lower price the anomaly? When you compare the trend the anomaly looks to be the low price.

If you look at it seems apparent the prices were artificially low. The prices are now adjusting back up they may still go up and down a bit. You could work out all the figures but ultimately it will be a matter of opinion on that data. On such a small sample size you can't accurately project the figures.

2 houses sold on the road in 2012, 1 house sold in 2013. ALl three the same size, all 3 needing to be gutted.
The price rise of 32 % is the anomaly.

Sleepy

gaius c wrote: »

You have contradicted yourself in the space of two sentances.

Not necessarily.

In my opinion, the price of development land + the cost of developing family houses on that land should yield a profit when selling those properties. There's clearly demand for such properties.

That's not the same thing as saying that the current prices for second-hand homes can only go up.

gaius c

Jellybean73 wrote: »

I don't believe any house was "undervalued" in the last two years. Houses were approaching where a house value was correct. So I believe a band of EAs got together and decided to create a manufactured increase in price.

I did giggle at the time but have a look at this...
http://www.mortgagebrokers.ie/blog/aib-allied-irish-bank/rte-news-at-6-department-of-finance-met-to-try-and-fix-property-market/

NewRunnerRoy

The most likely thing to me would be agents are dropping the reduced prices that were used to get interest.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree with this more. I have come accross several cases of this in the last month. In one instance viewed a house along with about 40-50 other people (the first and only open house for this property). I ended up offering the asking price of €375,000 the next day which at the time was the highest bid. The EA came back to me and said that the owners would not accept anything less than than €425,000 which was their strategy from the start. I am confident that if the house was advertised at €425,000 that there would not have been nearly as many people at the initial viewing.

Is there any body in place to regulate the practices of EA's? I find the above to be unethical by creating a buzz about a property by placing a low asking price. They completely wasted my time anyway!

The Spider

NewRunnerRoy wrote: »

The most likely thing to me would be agents are dropping the reduced prices that were used to get interest.

I couldn't agree with this more. I have come accross several cases of this in the last month. In one instance viewed a house along with about 40-50 other people (the first and only open house for this property). I ended up offering the asking price of €375,000 the next day which at the time was the highest bid. The EA came back to me and said that the owners would not accept anything less than than €425,000 which was their strategy from the start. I am confident that if the house was advertised at €425,000 that there would not have been nearly as many people at the initial viewing.

Is there any body in place to regulate the practices of EA's? I find the above to be unethical by creating a buzz about a property by placing a low asking price. They completely wasted my time anyway!

Nothing unethical about it, get em in and get em bidding against each other, like any auction, you just have to make sure you don't get caught up in it, or fall in love with a house.

NewRunnerRoy

The Spider wrote: »

Nothing unethical about it, get em in and get em bidding against each other, like any auction, you just have to make sure you don't get caught up in it, or fall in love with a house.

Unethical may be the wrong word here but I fee that there is a large grey area over the whole profession where they have the ability to be relatively loose with some of there practices. I do know one two EA's on a personal level and they will be the first to tell you that there are a lot of cowboys out there.

One of the biggest issues I had was with the lack of transparency in bidding wars. Are there any procedures in place to prevent an EA from telling me that another party has outbid my offer in an attempt to get me to increase my bid? I have been involved in a case where I felt like I could have been bidding against myself.... I know auctions prevent this but when its a standard sale there is not a huge amount in place to protect the buyer.

Sleepy

Nope, no regulations in the industry and unlikely to be any time soon.

gaius c

NewRunnerRoy wrote: »

The most likely thing to me would be agents are dropping the reduced prices that were used to get interest.

I couldn't agree with this more. I have come accross several cases of this in the last month. In one instance viewed a house along with about 40-50 other people (the first and only open house for this property). I ended up offering the asking price of €375,000 the next day which at the time was the highest bid. The EA came back to me and said that the owners would not accept anything less than than €425,000 which was their strategy from the start. I am confident that if the house was advertised at €425,000 that there would not have been nearly as many people at the initial viewing.

Is there any body in place to regulate the practices of EA's? I find the above to be unethical by creating a buzz about a property by placing a low asking price. They completely wasted my time anyway![/QUOTE]

Walk away. Serious buyers deserve serious sellers.

Jellybean73

gaius c wrote: »

I did giggle at the time but have a look at this...
http://www.mortgagebrokers.ie/blog/aib-allied-irish-bank/rte-news-at-6-department-of-finance-met-to-try-and-fix-property-market/

So a band of EAs got together.....along with the Dept of Finance....

How interesting!

So what is your take?

I still believe that the market was being manipulated, as opposed to the natural trends.

K.Flyer

The Estate Agents are trying their best to re-create the demand on property from 10 years ago by pushing to create "a bidding war" between potential buyers giving the impression property prices are now on the serious increase again. This in turn re-creates the "I want so much for my house" brigade and puts fear into the purchasers to get them to buy before prices get any higher.
Hopefully buyers will start to pull back and see what E.A.s are trying their best to do and start to say no to them.

The_Conductor

Volumes are so low- even massive swings in property prices achieved, can only be classified as statistically insignificant. Until such time as there is a properly functioning market (which on current trends looks to be around about the time hell freezes over)- we are going to get these conspiracy theories left right and centre.

Estate agents are acting on behalf of sellers- and will do their best to get the best possible price for their clients. If any purchaser thinks any estate agent is their friend- they are delusional.

The Department of Finance- are an interested party in all of this- keep in mind construction related taxation at one stage accounted for over 1/3 of the total tax take. We're already using magic formulas to make our budget balance- such as counting a saving of 400 million on unemployment benefit over the next year- as we are expecting a miraculous number of new jobs to materialise- alongside people emigrating. Any sector that might have the potential to generate a few koyeks, is going to be analysed, again and again- for signs of life.

We don't have a money tree- we have a small timid sappling, that is having a tiny amount of fertiliser applied to see what happens........

handlemaster

I don't see for the property investor what the advantages are of holding off. Prices are very unlikely to drop much further and rents been good its a one way bet in dublin now. The rest o the country is a diff story

Scortho

handlemaster wrote: »

I don't see for the property investor what the advantages are of holding off. Prices are very unlikely to drop much further and rents been good its a one way bet in dublin now. The rest o the country is a diff story

Price shouldn't be the be all and end all for the investor, the yield should be.

ezra_pound

Scortho wrote: »

Price shouldn't be the be all and end all for the investor, the yield should be.

That was the posters point. He mentioned prices not going down any further and rents going up. Yield is determined by price and rent. So that's exactly their point, that yield win increase.

Scortho

ezra_pound wrote: »

That was the posters point. He mentioned prices not going down any further and rents going up. Yield is determined by price and rent. So that's exactly their point, that yield win increase.

Apologies I read it differently as someone saying theres no need for investors holding back as property is only going one way.

If prices rise though and rent doesnt rise by the same proportion (rent on Barton Road in rathfarnham hasnt increased by 32%) then the yield will be falling.
Screwed many a speculator over in the boom.

Zamboni

I think an artificial bottom was created and it hit in 2011 Q4.
The natural bottom will be avoided by the VI's at all costs which will be borne by future taxpayers.
I would actually concede to purchase now but there is only pure utter sh*te on the market so I'm not bothered.

handlemaster

I remember reading reading before the crash about other property crashes that on average it takes 10 years for the market to fully re over.

gaius c

Scortho wrote: »

Price shouldn't be the be all and end all for the investor, the yield should be.

DIRT is now at 41% so it really doesn't make sense to have money in the bank earning pitiful interest when you can plough it into property and get 8% yields. There's also the possible threat to deposits ala Cypress. Even if rents were to tank, you'd still be looking at 4-5% gross yields which still compares favourably with bank interest rates. At this stage, you'd be finding it very hard to justify the risk of leaving €100k+ sums in the bank when it is earning no money.

This hunting for yield is the reason the London bubble is still going. It'll all end in tears when the easy cash on deposit runs out. This is what happened during the Great Depression. Everybody thought it was over or went bargain-hunting and they all lost their money in the end.

Mustard1972

gaius c wrote: »

DIRT is now at 41% so it really doesn't make sense to have money in the bank earning pitiful interest when you can plough it into property and get 8% yields. There's also the possible threat to deposits ala Cypress. Even if rents were to tank, you'd still be looking at 4-5% gross yields which still compares favourably with bank interest rates. At this stage, you'd be finding it very hard to justify the risk of leaving €100k+ sums in the bank when it is earning no money.

This hunting for yield is the reason the London bubble is still going. It'll all end in tears when the easy cash on deposit runs out. This is what happened during the Great Depression. Everybody thought it was over or went bargain-hunting and they all lost their money in the end.

Should be very easy to get over 10% yield at the moment.

Horrid Henry

Mustard1972 wrote: »

Should be very easy to get over 10% yield at the moment.

Where?

handlemaster

Horrid Henry wrote: »

Where?

Apartments in dublin for a start. Seek an you shall find. Lower end priced houses also you might not want to live in the area but yields are good.

Horrid Henry

handlemaster wrote: »

Apartments in dublin for a start. Seek an you shall find. Lower end priced houses also you might not want to live in the area but yields are good.

Where in Dublin?

Most that I can see throw off somewhere between €12k and €15k per annum and are selling for €180k to €220k.

That's a yield of circa 6.7%.

i.e. a long way from 10%

handlemaster

Horrid Henry wrote: »

Where in Dublin?

Most that I can see throw off somewhere between €12k and €15k per annum and are selling for €180k to €220k.

That's a yield of circa 6.7%.

i.e. a long way from 10%

Try tallaght and dublin 15.

Horrid Henry

handlemaster wrote: »

Try tallaght and dublin 15.

If there are such properties, there's a reason why the yield's so high...

handlemaster

Horrid Henry wrote: »

If there are such properties, there's a reason why the yield's so high...

Well there you go. The demand for rental is there what more do you want. If you do the research you'll find very good property investments in dublin. You don't need to be in D 4 or d 6 intact best to avoid these areas if want a good yield

Idbatterim

If there are such properties, there's a reason why the yield's so high...

often, but not always, I wouldnt buy in either of those areas to live, but if you are yield chasing, do you care where you investment is within reason? of course its handy if its not miles and miles away...

ted1

Horrid Henry wrote: »

Where in Dublin?

Most that I can see throw off somewhere between €12k and €15k per annum and are selling for €180k to €220k.

That's a yield of circa 6.7%.

i.e. a long way from 10%

1 bedroom apartments in swords will give a good yield

lima

Horrid Henry wrote: »

Where in Dublin?

Most that I can see throw off somewhere between €12k and €15k per annum and are selling for €180k to €220k.

That's a yield of circa 6.7%.

i.e. a long way from 10%

Apartment's are risky though, prices will be the first to lose value when they start getting repossessed. Also you have all the 2005/2006/2007 buyers of apartments who have 1 or 2 kids now and are trading up. Rathmines/Ranelagh is the best bet but apartments there are tiny & expensive. Other newer ones in the city centre (e.g GCD) will cost you up to almost 3k p.a in management fee's. North inner city is cheap but you will probably have difficult tenants (transient foreign workers etc.)

My 2c from sitting on the fence waiting for a'normal market' to resume :rolleyes:

handlemaster

lima wrote: »

Apartment's are risky though, prices will be the first to lose value when they start getting repossessed. Also you have all the 2005/2006/2007 buyers of apartments who have 1 or 2 kids now and are trading up. Rathmines/Ranelagh is the best bet but apartments there are tiny & expensive. Other newer ones in the city centre (e.g GCD) will cost you up to almost 3k p.a in management fee's. North inner city is cheap but you will probably have difficult tenants (transient foreign workers etc.)

My 2c from sitting on the fence waiting for a'normal market' to resume :rolleyes:

If you can buy now why would you wait. I dont think there's a 10% drop coming.