They don't even pay road tax Joe. **Off topic thread**

tomasrojo

Given their recent track record, I always suspect the RSA is indulging in policy-based evidence-making. What is the best way to make sure people know cycling is dangerous?

(Rather than the question: is cycling dangerous? Both in the sense "likely to result in harm to the participant" and also "likely to result in harm to others".)

manafana

tomasrojo wrote: »

Given their recent track record, I always suspect the RSA is indulging in policy-based evidence-making. What is the best way to make sure people know cycling is dangerous?

(Rather than the question: is cycling dangerous? Both in the sense "likely to result in harm to the participant" and also "likely to result in harm to others".)

couldnt agree more, need to ask question is cycling dangerous or is it that way we allow urban traffic to move dangerous just like when peds etc get hit in what should be a near zero number.

Crocked

magicbastarder wrote: »

Death and injury toll among cyclists on the rise

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/death-and-injury-toll-among-cyclists-on-the-rise-1.2307023

article from the IT this morning. relatively sober compared to some of the ones we've seen in recent weeks and months.

I caught a bit of Newstalk this morning on the way into work. Seems like Ivan is on his holliers and some other politician is sitting in for him. Chris mentioned that Irish Times story and mentioned that one of the side effects of the rise in the popularity of cycling is the increase in deaths. Straight away the politician was in saying that the new fines would reduce them again. The mind boggles. Chris then went on with the whole, I'm a cyclist but other cyclists are.......

Harrybelafonte

I had to travel the length of the M50 last night. I have never in my f'kin life seem so much craziness. I drive a lot more now than I used to and ame across both the fatal crash on the M50 a few weeks ago and the M1 fatality on Monday. I can't believe how poor the driving is on these motorways. So, last night alone I saw.

1. An Opel Corsa overtake me at 130km/h, swerve to the left as it did and nearly hit the centre sidewall.
2. Micra pull right in front of massive Merc with less than a foot to spare. The Merc then made it worse by5. No-one, I mean no-one kept just leaving that gap for a few KM. Didn't ease off at all.
3. Cars driving so slowly in the centre lane than anyone even close to the limit had to swerve to the inside lane which is super freaking dangerous. I know the speed limit isn't a target but something close to it would be nice.
4. No-one seems to use mirrors when changing lanes to check the gap they've left before pulling in.
5. No-one, I mean no-one, kept to the speed limit in the 100km/h zones.

I'm from Donegal and we're supposed to be loopy drivers and all that, but holy sh!t, I'd rather deal with the rally drivers at home than people who can't check mirrors.

Speed doesn't kill people, stupidity does and if someone is oblivious to mirror use when they're buzzing along at 120km/h then how the hell do we ever expect drivers to do it at 30km/h city speeds.

Chips Lovell

The M50 is like a wild life park, where they round up all the bad drivers in Ireland and just set them loose on one stretch of road.

Beasty

magicbastarder wrote: »

Death and injury toll among cyclists on the rise

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/death-and-injury-toll-among-cyclists-on-the-rise-1.2307023

article from the IT this morning. relatively sober compared to some of the ones we've seen in recent weeks and months.

Last year they were all obsessed with last year's increase in fatalities

This year they are all obsessed with last year's increase in fatalities

Why don't they report the fact the figure has dropped back again this year????

magicbastarder

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

The M50 is like a wild life park, where they round up all the bad drivers in Ireland and just set them loose on one stretch of road.

i was on the M50 a few weeks ago; i'm usually a relaxed driver, 90kph is fine for me, and we were outpaced by one car towing another.
reported it to the gardai, but they were saying that they were not confident the stretch i saw it on had CCTV coverage.

ThisRegard

Crocked wrote: »

I caught a bit of Newstalk this morning on the way into work. Seems like Ivan is on his holliers and some other politician is sitting in for him. Chris mentioned that Irish Times story and mentioned that one of the side effects of the rise in the popularity of cycling is the increase in deaths. Straight away the politician was in saying that the new fines would reduce them again. The mind boggles. Chris then went on with the whole, I'm a cyclist but other cyclists are.......

Nora Owen, another clown. She also got all Parkinson(s) and wanted the guy to admit that cyclists break red lights etc. FFS, on a story about cyclist deaths, and after been told that the biggest risk is motorists, she went on about this, the weaving in and out of traffic, and not the behaviour of motorists around them.

At least with Yates you knew that 99% of what he says on this topic is trolling.

ThisRegard

magicbastarder wrote: »

i was on the M50 a few weeks ago; i'm usually a relaxed driver, 90kph is fine for me, and we were outpaced by one car towing another.
reported it to the gardai, but they were saying that they were not confident the stretch i saw it on had CCTV coverage.

Last time I was witness to an accident, and the only one to actually stop to help, after a car driving on the outside lane approaching the N7 junction swerved all the way into the slip across all lanes, leading one lady to overcompensate when swerving out of the way and hit the crash barrier bouncing back into the middle lane, the gardai told me they didn't record the footage, someone had to be watching at the time. This was only about a year ago.

And if you think some motorists behaviour is bad when you're driving, you should see what they're like when they come upon an accident. You have the usual rubber neckers, but there's some amount of clowns that try to drive over you on the hard shoulder to get by.

tomasrojo

Beasty wrote: »

Why don't they report the fact the figure has dropped back again this year????

In the article, they imply 2015 is on course to be about as bad as 2014.

Of course, if the remaining months are fatality-free, they'll attribute it to the FCNs (as already alluded to in earlier post).

magicbastarder

i stopped at an accident on the galway road a few years back; third person to stop, first to ring the emergency services (thankfully no-one was seriously injured).
several people said to me afterwards that it was a mistake to ring an ambulance, that i'd be billed for the callout. which is utter nonsense.

anyway, the garda who attended the accident talked to us, and then when we went to make an official statement (in our local AGS station in dublin) found he'd claimed we told him something 180 degrees removed from what we had said, in his bid to create a case against the driver.

CramCycle

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I had to travel the length of the M50 last night. I have never in my f'kin life seem so much craziness. I drive a lot more now than I used to and ame across both the fatal crash on the M50 a few weeks ago and the M1 fatality on Monday. I can't believe how poor the driving is on these motorways. So, last night alone I saw.

1. An Opel Corsa overtake me at 130km/h, swerve to the left as it did and nearly hit the centre sidewall.
2. Micra pull right in front of massive Merc with less than a foot to spare. The Merc then made it worse by5. No-one, I mean no-one kept just leaving that gap for a few KM. Didn't ease off at all.
3. Cars driving so slowly in the centre lane than anyone even close to the limit had to swerve to the inside lane which is super freaking dangerous. I know the speed limit isn't a target but something close to it would be nice.
4. No-one seems to use mirrors when changing lanes to check the gap they've left before pulling in.
5. No-one, I mean no-one, kept to the speed limit in the 100km/h zones.

I'm from Donegal and we're supposed to be loopy drivers and all that, but holy sh!t, I'd rather deal with the rally drivers at home than people who can't check mirrors.

Speed doesn't kill people, stupidity does and if someone is oblivious to mirror use when they're buzzing along at 120km/h then how the hell do we ever expect drivers to do it at 30km/h city speeds.

The M50 is the best place to get examples of how not to drive on a motorway. In fact Ireland is the best country in the world to learn how not to drive on a motorway.

magicbastarder

to be fair, i've taken the car to the UK on holidays several times in the last few years, and the driving over there can be as bad as here.

ThisRegard

magicbastarder wrote: »

several people said to me afterwards that it was a mistake to ring an ambulance, that i'd be billed for the callout. which is utter nonsense.

Like myself, first (only) person to call 999, driver was out cold for about a minute. 2 fire brigades came, then the gardai. They cleaned up, she didn't want to go in the ambulance, and fireman came over for her details to send the bill to, much to her disgust.

magicbastarder

your car insurance covers the callout anyway.

Rogue-Trooper

Note to self next time I fix a puncture in the rain.

After using Co2 pump, don't tighten presta valve with wet fingers....

buffalo

ThisRegard wrote: »

Like myself, first (only) person to call 999, driver was out cold for about a minute. 2 fire brigades came, then the gardai. They cleaned up, she didn't want to go in the ambulance, and fireman came over for her details to send the bill to, much to her disgust.

I was likewise shocked to get an RTA bill a couple of years ago, for about €1,500. I was in shock until I read the small print - you only have to pay if you claim from a third party.

(Don't ask me if you claim €500, do you have to pay the €1,500.)

Harrybelafonte

CramCycle wrote: »

The M50 is the best place to get examples of how not to drive on a motorway. In fact Ireland is the best country in the world to learn how not to drive on a motorway.

Totally disagree. UK is hell on earth on the motorway. Drive Holyhead to Southampton once. So glad to get off.

Harrybelafonte

Sweden the best.

Qualitymark

It would be nice if, instead of all those sadistic terrify-the-citizens ads for the horrors of car accidents, we had a positive advertising campaign, with praise for correct driving, and with people being given small tokens or certificates if they drove particularly well.

National and personal pride work far better in instilling a skill and a practice than terror does.

rubadub

manafana wrote: »

Yeah sheds such an easy target for any chancer, wouldn't leave more than cheap wheels or bits and bobs in there,

We have paving slabs with a ground bolt in them to lock a bike to. This is not needed anymore, instead we have a long motorbike chain through 3 bikes and a lawnmower so although not anchored it cannot even physically fit out the door.

This also removes slack in the chain and keeps it up high, if you watch videos of them using huge bolt cutters they usually require resting one arm of the cutter on the ground for leverage. So I reckon only a loud grinder would get through it.

Have a 6ft deep hole ready dug for any thief I catch, most of these scumbags are pretty thin to get over the gate, so fingers crossed I don't catch a fat one which needs more digging. :pac:

Beasty

Having driven over 200 miles of UK motorway yesterday plus the full length of the M50 (and indeed M11) I have no doubt the Irish motorways are a far more pleasurable experience despite the inability of many drivers over here to understand the concept of "lane discipline"

ThisRegard

buffalo wrote: »

I was likewise shocked to get an RTA bill a couple of years ago, for about €1,500. I was in shock until I read the small print - you only have to pay if you claim from a third party.

(Don't ask me if you claim €500, do you have to pay the €1,500.)

Were you involved in the accident and did you call the services yourself ? I don't get the small print bit, do they mean if you claim from whoever caused the accident, then you have to pay ? (well have your insurance pay anyway).

Qualitymark

ThisRegard wrote: »

Were you involved in the accident and did you call the services yourself ? I don't get the small print bit, do they mean if you claim from whoever caused the accident, then you have to pay ? (well have your insurance pay anyway).

And if you don't have a car and so insurance but are a kindly passing cyclist, what's the story?

Chips Lovell

Beasty wrote: »

Having driven over 200 miles of UK motorway yesterday plus the full length of the M50 (and indeed M11) I have no doubt the Irish motorways are a far more pleasurable experience despite the inability of many drivers over here to understand the concept of "lane discipline"

I find it remarkable that there is nothing in the way of driver instruction for motorways. You're not allowed on them with L Plates, you're not required to learn how to drive on one, but the minute you pass your test you just jump in.

Driver instruction has improved an awful lot in the past few years but we still have a way to go.

buffalo

ThisRegard wrote: »

Were you involved in the accident and did you call the services yourself ? I don't get the small print bit, do they mean if you claim from whoever caused the accident, then you have to pay ? (well have your insurance pay anyway).

Someone else called them, I was the one in the back of the ambulance.

The charge doesn't apply (i.e. nobody pays) unless there's a third party claim involved. From a quick Google, here's a phrasing:

If the injured person has a claim against any third party, the RTA charges only become payable if the person is successful in his claim against the third party.

So if you're not pursuing a claim, you just sign the bill saying that, and send it back, and it's cancelled.

Zyzz

Alek wrote: »

Send him a PM, he'll get a notification via email.

Sent him a message! Hopefully he'll see it as they look really slick! (And light :pac:)

ThisRegard

Qualitymark wrote: »

And if you don't have a car and so insurance but are a kindly passing cyclist, what's the story?

Don't pay, as it seems like a hell of a lot of people don't.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/half-of-9-3m-fire-brigade-fees-not-collected-in-2014-1.2113130

The time I called them and the driver said they didn't want the ambulance, it did cross my mind that I'd be the one charged as I called so I did get out of there fairly fast.

buffalo

ThisRegard wrote: »

Don't pay, as it seems like a hell of a lot of people don't.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/half-of-9-3m-fire-brigade-fees-not-collected-in-2014-1.2113130

A fire brigade callout is different from an RTA callout afaik.

buffalo

Qualitymark wrote: »

It would be nice if, instead of all those sadistic terrify-the-citizens ads for the horrors of car accidents, we had a positive advertising campaign, with praise for correct driving, and with people being given small tokens or certificates if they drove particularly well.

National and personal pride work far better in instilling a skill and a practice than terror does.

I send complimentary messages to bus companies on foot of good driving.

Zyzz

When I collided with a pedestrian and knocked myself out by hitting the kerb I refused an ambulance as I was certain there was a hefty call out fee. 8 hours sitting in A&E and not being seen makes me regret that decision. :pac:

ThisRegard

buffalo wrote: »

A fire brigade callout is different from an RTA callout afaik.

Yeah, but the Times story claims that "Most local authorities across the country charge for fire brigade services for domestic fires, traffic accidents and fires on commercial premises" which would imply that the non payment is across the spectrum.

CramCycle

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Totally disagree. UK is hell on earth on the motorway. Drive Holyhead to Southampton once. So glad to get off.

I may have misphrased that, despite our horrific driving, we have relatively few Motorway accidents compared to other countries as far as I am aware (could be completely wrong).

Hence its a good place to learn the things you should not do with a reduced risk compared to other places.

seamus

I imagine there's quite a bit of creative accounting goes on there too though to inflate the deficit that the emergency services report at the end of the year. Like when you get called to rescue a cat from a roof you're not going to charge someone a €200 call-out fee, but the accountants will stick it on the balance sheet to show that they're starved of funds.

That is, I wonder how much of that "outstanding debt" has been issued against the name, "Caller could not be identified".

tomasrojo

Are cycling deaths “on the rise” in Ireland?
http://irishcycle.com/2015/08/05/8894/

Good graph there. Deaths clearly are falling, unless last year is the start of a new upward trend.

magicbastarder

buffalo wrote: »

A fire brigade callout is different from an RTA callout afaik.

also, separate from the third party claim issue, they can choose to levy a charge for a malicious or joke callout, iirc.

CramCycle

seamus wrote: »

I imagine there's quite a bit of creative accounting goes on there too though to inflate the deficit that the emergency services report at the end of the year. Like when you get called to rescue a cat from a roof you're not going to charge someone a €200 call-out fee, but the accountants will stick it on the balance sheet to show that they're starved of funds.

That is, I wonder how much of that "outstanding debt" has been issued against the name, "Caller could not be identified".

I may got shot for this but is cat up a tree an emergency, surely they should be charged something, it is not an emergency.

I have called ambulances a few times where it has been a RTA or where there is a medical situation where my first aid did not cover the situation or there was more then anyone without specialist equipment could do.

On a side note, the number of times I have seen accidents where people immediately move the person lying on the ground is shocking. I really thought First aid was widespread between transition year, volunteering and work place requirements but experience would indicate that Sweet FA people know even the basics that even TV and Movies should have indicated to them.

CramCycle

I think its about 500euro for a chimney fire, but they do give you a very through clean once it is out and stop the flu cracking, far cheaper than letting it burnout as I know some people will try.

Can't express the value for getting a proper chimney clean (about 50euro) once a year.

seamus

CramCycle wrote: »

I may got shot for this but is cat up a tree an emergency, surely they should be charged something, it is not an emergency.

Well no it's not, and I don't think Irish people are as bad as some other countries for calling the emergency services for relatively mundane issues.
I guess there's a balance between "charitable civic duty" and "attending to emergencies". The former builds goodwill between the community and the emergency services. If you go around charging huge sums for it, you will destroy that.

On a side note, the number of times I have seen accidents where people immediately move the person lying on the ground is shocking. I really thought First aid was widespread between transition year, volunteering and work place requirements but experience would indicate that Sweet FA people know even the basics that even TV and Movies should have indicated to them.

In my experience, there are 3 types of people in an emergency
- people who freeze and don't know what to do
- people who panic and forget absolutely everything they've ever learned and try to "help" by simply doing "stuff", like moving the person
- people who "click" in and remember exactly what they know about the scenario, even if that's, "I should just ring an ambulance and do nothing else".

CramCycle

seamus wrote: »

Well no it's not, and I don't think Irish people are as bad as some other countries for calling the emergency services for relatively mundane issues.
I guess there's a balance between "charitable civic duty" and "attending to emergencies". The former builds goodwill between the community and the emergency services. If you go around charging huge sums for it, you will destroy that.

Very true, I remember watching one of those "999 emergency" style shows and some of the calls in were astonishing, people calling in for an ambulance pick up with a sprained ankle, lost front door keys, not being let into a nightclub.

Words escape me, the operator was saying they were incredibly common in the UK.

Effects

I had a nose bleed in Marks and Spencers when I was a kid. They called an ambulance for me!

tomasrojo

I once had a motorist break a pedestrian light when I was crossing and he shouted "fck you" out the window at me as he drove past. A motorbike cop chased him and stopped him. Cop had told me to follow, so I did, and we all discussed what had happened. Then an ambulance and two fire engines showed up to attend to the "accident".

(The driver seemed to be ferrying a drunk tramp as well, who got out and tried to explain to the cop what I had been doing wrong, until the cop told him to be quiet and get back in the car. It was one of those mornings.)

aiden1988

it sounds perfect

Moflojo

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/high-death-and-injury-rates-among-cyclists-alarm-road-safety-campaigners-1.2306903

The Irish Times has gone a bit "OMG cycling is so scary!" today. I don't know which makes me more angry; their incompetent presentation of the statistics or the lack of discussion around the utterly abysmal cycling infrastructure in this country.

"The numbers come at a time of tension between some cyclists and motorists on the road, which Road Safety Authority (RSA) chairwoman Liz O’Donnell has likened to a war."

Let's keep talking about a war until we get a war.

Thinkingaboutit

I notice DCC make little effort to protect the cycle lanes in Kimmage which are meant to be clear during peak hours. They even have a depot there, but on street parking outside high yield areas in the city centre or Ranelagh is a matter of indifference to them.

ThisRegard

CramCycle wrote: »

Very true, I remember watching one of those "999 emergency" style shows and some of the calls in were astonishing, people calling in for an ambulance pick up with a sprained ankle, lost front door keys, not being let into a nightclub.

Words escape me, the operator was saying they were incredibly common in the UK.

I have a neighbour who must call an ambulance on a fortnightly basis to the house. I don't think anyone ever has a serious issue there, and with 3 cars at the house and being a 5 minute drive to the nearest A&E I'm sure the guys roll their eyes at this stage when they get despatched there.

They aren't Irish so I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing, if they couldn't be arsed with the local doctors or just abuse the system.

arybvtcw0eolkf

My brother is a paramedic and he says the reason some people call an ambulance to take them to hospital when they're well able to make their own way is because some people are under the impression an ambulance ride to A&E ensures you skip the Q and are seen to immediately.

A very, very selfish act.

CramCycle

Aiden Defeated Revolver wrote: »

A very, very selfish act.

But, sadly, completely believable.

It's reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where Homer won't let go of the can, and they inform him that while attending to him, an orphanage burned down.

I would very much be of the opinion that any call to 999 that can be shown to be an act of stupidity or unmitigated stupidity, the person should be charged as if they are partly to blame for assault, GBH or manslaughter.

Many will disagree but sometimes stupid people need such a brutal smack in the face of the potential results of their actions that it should be done without room for apology. I say this in full knowledge that I myself have acted stupidly in the past and on occasion have paid the price. A lesson hard taught is a lesson well learned.

rollingscone

CramCycle wrote: »

But, sadly, completely believable.

It's reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where Homer won't let go of the can, and they inform him that while attending to him, an orphanage burned down.

I would very much be of the opinion that any call to 999 that can be shown to be an act of stupidity or unmitigated stupidity, the person should be charged as if they are partly to blame for assault, GBH or manslaughter.

Many will disagree but sometimes stupid people need such a brutal smack in the face of the potential results of their actions that it should be done without room for apology. I say this in full knowledge that I myself have acted stupidly in the past and on occasion have paid the price. A lesson hard taught is a lesson well learned.

Personal responsibility is a dying concept it would seem.

Lusk_Doyle

CramCycle wrote: »

But, sadly, completely believable.

It's reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where Homer won't let go of the can, and they inform him that while attending to him, an orphanage burned down.

I would very much be of the opinion that any call to 999 that can be shown to be an act of stupidity or unmitigated stupidity, the person should be charged as if they are partly to blame for assault, GBH or manslaughter.

Many will disagree but sometimes stupid people need such a brutal smack in the face of the potential results of their actions that it should be done without room for apology. I say this in full knowledge that I myself have acted stupidly in the past and on occasion have paid the price. A lesson hard taught is a lesson well learned.

Sure who would miss a bunch of orphans? I stand by Homer.