License Question

CuriousLegal · 11-10-2013 4:20am #1

Hi folks,

Hoping somebody can help shed some light on the following if possible, this is not a loophole request.

I have an appearance in court coming up for not producing my license and insurance within 10 days of a minor offence (no seatbelt coming out of work).

This was due to insurance documents having been thrown out by my ex, and my license was out of date as it had only been a one year renewal and not two as per the norm, I tried getting replacement documents form my insurance company but they were reluctant to send a hard copy of my policy and tried to fob me off with an email copy which would not be accepted by the Gardaí when I tried to produce that in the station. I also tried renewing my license as soon as possible.

By the time my replacement license and hard copy of the policy arrived it was past the 10 days, so I could not produce it within the allotted time.

Can somebody please advise as to what sort of a punishment I would be facing?, as I have never been to court before or been in any sort of trouble with the Gardaí?

Any help on the matter would be greatly appreciated.

mountai · 11-10-2013 4:29am

I hope you get at least 5 years on bread and water and are put in with one of the Dundons!!!!

Lighten up man. Judges are not completre monsters. If you bring all documentation , and explain the situation as you have done above , then I"m sure you will get away with a small slap on the wrist.

source · 11-10-2013 9:47am

Op turn up in court and explain the situation to the Garda that stopped you, and produce the documents that say you were covered to drive when stopped.

All but the most ignorant of Gardai will ask the judge for the case to be struck out, because you were covered at the time of driving.

Losty Dublin · 11-10-2013 1:03pm

OP, is your charge for not having insurance on the day in question or not producing insurance as required to?

CuriousLegal · 11-10-2013 2:42pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

OP, is your charge for not having insurance on the day in question or not producing insurance as required to?

There are 4 summons

Two for not producing the documents and two for not having them ie. license out of date (I think)

Losty Dublin · 11-10-2013 2:55pm

CuriousLegal wrote: »

There are 4 summons

Two for not producing the documents and two for not having them ie. license out of date (I think)

So am I right in saying this; there is a summons for not having insurance, one for having no licence and then one each for not producing your licence and insurance?

Was your licence a provisional permit and was it out of date on the day in question when you were stopped?

CuriousLegal · 11-10-2013 4:02pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

So am I right in saying this; there is a summons for not having insurance, one for having no licence and then one each for not producing your licence and insurance?

Was your licence a provisional permit and was it out of date on the day in question when you were stopped?

Yes, I had insurance but the license had lapsed as I thought it had been a standard 2 year renewal when it was only a 1 year

Losty Dublin · 11-10-2013 4:24pm

CuriousLegal wrote: »

Yes, I had insurance but the license had lapsed as I thought it had been a standard 2 year renewal when it was only a 1 year

Not being an expert on insurance but I would wager that the lapsed licence/permit will invalidate your insurance policy. If this is the case then this is something that you need to address with them immediately in case the worst happens and a claim is made against you.

You need to contact a solicitor ASAP regarding the summonses. If convicted you are looking at a bare minimum of a fine, a ban and a massive insurance loading, not to mention a conviction.

Pro Hoc Vice · 11-10-2013 4:36pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Not being an expert on insurance but I would wager that the lapsed licence/permit will invalidate your insurance policy. If this is the case then this is something that you need to address with them immediately in case the worst happens and a claim is made against you.

You need to contact a solicitor ASAP regarding the summonses. If convicted you are looking at a bare minimum of a fine, a ban and a massive insurance loading, not to mention a conviction.

Incorrect. If you took that wager you would lose the bet.

OP you need to produce the insurance on the day in court (don't bring a photocopy, don't bring the disc, have the original insurance certificate in court, when you get to court find the guarda sitting in the front seats, tell him you have insurance, he will direct you to the relevant Garda show him, stay in court until the matter is disposed of), the no licence will be a fine. I assume you have a learners permit, if that is the case even if you had valid one on the date date and and you had no full licence driver in car you are still guilty of the offence.

Cold Sore · 11-10-2013 4:46pm

That happened to a friend of mine. She went to the Garda station and showed him the paperwork. He said he would have it struck out. He said that she was lucky she came to the station as the judges get very cross when people turn up in court with paperwork on the day and slow things down with long explanations.

Losty Dublin · 11-10-2013 4:51pm

infosys wrote: »

Incorrect. If you took that wager you would lose the bet.

.

So you are claiming that the policy will still remain valid, even without a valid licence/permit to allow you to legally drive?

Pro Hoc Vice · 11-10-2013 4:53pm

Cold Sore wrote: »

That happened to a friend of mine. She went to the Garda station and showed him the paperwork. He said he would have it struck out. He said that she was lucky she came to the station as the judges get very cross when people turn up in court with paperwork on the day and slow things down with long explanations.

I have never seen a judge get cross, in fact not turning up after a summons issues can cause serious problems. I know of cases where documents are show to Garda in station, says ill strike it out, hands over his cases to another Garda gets lost in translation.

Its simple the OP has a summons, while the OP can show to Garda before court, the summons requires attendance at court, be there to make sure the case goes as it should.

Cold Sore · 11-10-2013 5:01pm

infosys wrote: »

I have never seen a judge get cross,
.

Most judges I have seen are cross.

Cody Pomeray · 11-10-2013 5:04pm

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/paul-carney2.jpg

Pro Hoc Vice · 11-10-2013 5:05pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

So you are claiming that the policy will still remain valid, even without a valid licence/permit to allow you to legally drive?

Yes, it is only possible to invalidate a policy of third party motor insurance by way of registered letter. It is not possible to invalidate such a policy due to no license, it's prohibited by the regulations.

Pro Hoc Vice · 11-10-2013 5:06pm

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/paul-carney2.jpg

He is really nice in person.

Pro Hoc Vice · 11-10-2013 5:07pm

Cold Sore wrote: »

Most judges I have seen are cross.

While judges may be cross, they will not be to a person for turning up to answer a summons. Things they do after turning up may make judge cross.

Cold Sore · 11-10-2013 5:09pm

infosys wrote: »

While judges may be cross, they will not be to a person for turning up to answer a summons. Things they do after turning up may make judge cross.

That is what the guard meant. Pulling out insurance forms when the case has been called raises the blood pressure. Everything stops while the guard has to look at the policy and if it is in order. It is sometimes hard to find the guard in a crowded court especially if he is late.

Pro Hoc Vice · 11-10-2013 5:11pm

Cold Sore wrote: »

That is what the guard meant. Pulling out insurance forms when the case has been called raises the blood pressure. Everything stops while the guard has to look at the policy and if it is in order. It is sometimes hard to find the guard in a crowded court especially if he is late.

Which is why I said ask the prosecuting Garda on arrival, who will point out the relevant Garda. I assume that a person would arrive before court and sort this out before the judge sits.

Cody Pomeray · 11-10-2013 5:12pm

infosys wrote: »

He is really nice in person.

Yes but he has very forbidding eyebrows.

Pro Hoc Vice · 11-10-2013 5:14pm

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Yes but he has very forbidding eyebrows.

Don't judge a judge by his eyebrows. Lol.

Losty Dublin · 11-10-2013 5:25pm

infosys wrote: »

Yes, it is only possible to invalidate a policy of third party motor insurance by way of registered letter. It is not possible to invalidate such a policy due to no license, it's prohibited by the regulations.

Interesting stuff. Now if the licence was invalid at the time of commencement does it follow that it is still valid?

11-10-2013 5:29pm

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/paul-carney2.jpg

Also known as the Carney-vore.

Cold Sore · 11-10-2013 5:34pm

infosys wrote: »

Which is why I said ask the prosecuting Garda on arrival, who will point out the relevant Garda. I assume that a person would arrive before court and sort this out before the judge sits.

Sometimes the guard is late and the sitting has started and it can be awkward getting around a crowded courtroom.

Fred Swanson · 11-10-2013 6:42pm

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Fred Swanson · 11-10-2013 6:45pm

This post has been deleted.

Pro Hoc Vice · 11-10-2013 6:58pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So an insurance cert trumps legislation. It is prohibited clause for an insurance company to insist on a license.

PROHIBITED CONDITIONS

(f) by limiting the cover to cases where the person driving a vehicle either holds a driving licence to drive the vehicle or having held such a licence has not been disqualified for holding it,

The regs have been amended extensively but to the best of my knowledge that still stands.

The above does not stop the insurance company taking the insured to court to recoup the damages paid.

Pat Mustard · 12-10-2013 5:55pm

Cold Sore wrote: »

That happened to a friend of mine. She went to the Garda station and showed him the paperwork. He said he would have it struck out.

It's always best when the State agrees to strike out charges in advance.

It's also best to attend court to ensure that there is no mistake regarding the implementation of any such agreement. Mistakes can happen at times, and it is easier and cheaper to preempt those mistakes than fix them afterwards.

License Question

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