Tipping

SV

Lyaiera wrote: »

What's no different? That someone helping you on the street wouldn't take a tip? People are in their jobs because they need money to live. Very few people work without consideration of money. Tipping is part of a social contract. Working is part of an actual, legal and necessary contract.

Try telling the AA they're Good Samaritans for helping you when you break down and you're not going to pay your subscription. A tip recognises the person's actions not the business' actions.

Yes but the point is that they're being paid to do that job already.

Artful_Badger

MadsL wrote: »

Wages vary from $2 - $7 hr. Tips about $100 a shift.

So, do you consider approx $24,000 (€17,670) a year "extremely well paid"?

I was talking about here. If it was standard procedure as you seem to think it should be to tip 20% of your meal/drinks direct to the servers who would already be on at least min wage it they would be well paid jobs.

The Roaring Twenties?

I'm not that old.

Where did you go to get bad service? Restuarant service in the US is generally excellent.

Not poor service as in bad service. I meant I didnt get the whole unfortunate service staff need tips to survive vibe. AS I said where I was those jobs were the best around and if you wanted one in the summer you had to buy it.

Without being snobby, but just on income levels, which fine dining restaurant is this shelf-stacker eating at?

I'm not sure you are capable of not being snobby going by what you've posted on here tbh. Whats it matter what type of restaurant it is if you're arguing all service staff should be tipped ? Being on minimum wage doesnt exclude you from eating out on occasion either.

So you tip, but should we have an exemption card or something for people on low salaries. Like a medical card for tipping ?

Why would you need an exemption card for something that not obligatory ? Business charges what it expects for its services. Those who want to tip, tip and those who dont, dont. Its simple enough really.

Karona

I have read through 19 pages of this thread and now I have a headache, it is just back and forth with MadsL..... seriously man.... you don't live in Ireland, we do. The norm here is that is not obligatory to tip.

Today for example I was in a restaurant and the waitress was a snobby ol cow, assuming I wanted the same as my male friend and I had to call her back and order my food. She then brought out lunch out and put our plates at the side of our table, not infront of us. She then proceeded to bring out my friends dessert without even bothering to ask me would I like dessert, I had to then ask her for a dessert menu which she huffed and puffed about.
Then it came to time to pay and she was as nice as pie to us expecting us to tip. We didn't. I will only tip if the service is good.

And for the record I do not tip taxi drivers, delivery drivers or hairdressers.

MadsL

2x40 hr week = 80
100 x 5 day week = 500

Weekly = 580
Annual= 580* 50(holidays not paid) = $29000 =€21351

Even at the higher end - $40k a year is not great in the US especially if your employer doesn't offer medical or dental cover.

Lewis Savory Clergy wrote: »

Decent wage and only a small portion declared for tax.

All servers are assessed for tip income in the US. That's simply not true.

But more importantly we are in Ireland discussing wages and tipping in Ireland.

Were we? I thought we were a global dispersed collection of users discussing things on a server based in Ireland. My bad.

Anyway, this is my last reply to Madsl as he's just a wind-up merchant.

I wish you would report my posts instead of complaining about them.

Horrid Henry

The places that we order takeaways from impose a delivery charge. I don't tip the drivers and I don't see why I should to be honest.

Artful_Badger

Karona wrote: »

I have read through 19 pages of this thread and now I have a headache, it is just back and forth with MadsL..... seriously man.... you don't live in Ireland, we do. The norm here is that is not obligatory to tip.

Given he's probably been involved in most of the threads he linked to in the OP and he's been on a one man campaign on here (90 posts) I cant imagine anything anyone could say to change anything for him at this stage or him saying anything he hasnt already said.

Time to let this one die too I suppose.

MadsL

Karona wrote: »

I have read through 19 pages of this thread and now I have a headache, it is just back and forth with MadsL..... seriously man.... you don't live in Ireland, we do.

Then you will have read the part where I described having lived in Ireland for 15 years. Or did you miss that?

The norm here is that is not obligatory to tip.

That's the norm everywhere...

Today for example I was in a restaurant and the waitress was a snobby ol cow, assuming I wanted the same as my male friend and I had to call her back and order my food. She then brought out lunch out and put our plates at the side of our table, not infront of us. She then proceeded to bring out my friends dessert without even bothering to ask me would I like dessert, I had to then ask her for a dessert menu which she huffed and puffed about.

Your service was crap. I would have asked to fetch the manager and explained why I was not tipping and that he need to do some work on her service skills (which are actually desperate generally in Ireland)

Then it came to time to pay and she was as nice as pie to us expecting us to tip. We didn't. I will only tip if the service is good.

Wait. I thought you just patronisingly explained to me how "the norm here is that is not obligatory to tip." - why would you have the sense that she was expecting a tip if it was not the norm??

And for the record I do not tip taxi drivers, delivery drivers or hairdressers.

But others do. I have no idea what people called Norm do however...

Ace2007

MadsL wrote: »

2x40 hr week = 80
100 x 5 day week = 500

Weekly = 580
Annual= 580* 50(holidays not paid) = $29000 =€21351

Even at the higher end - $40k a year is not great in the US especially if your employer doesn't offer medical or dental cover.



All servers are assessed for tip income in the US. That's simply not true.



Were we? I thought we were a global dispersed collection of users discussing things on a server based in Ireland. My bad.



I wish you would report my posts instead of complaining about them.

Why would he report them?
There aren't personal abuse or going off topic.
However despite numerous posters of people telling you we live in IRELAND and the customs here - you constantly go back and compare here with US. so it's pointless conversation.

MadsL

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Given he's probably been involved in most of the threads he linked to in the OP and he's been on a one man campaign on here (90 posts) I cant imagine anything anyone could say to change anything for him at this stage or him saying anything he hasnt already said.

Time to let this one die too I suppose.

You seem to have a problem with my posts - perhaps you would like to be clearer about what you perceive to be the problem?

MadsL

Ace2007 wrote: »

Why would he report them?
There aren't personal abuse or going off topic.

Why is he bitching about them then?

However despite numerous posters of people telling you we live in IRELAND

Who is we? 40% of posters on boards DON"T live in Ireland.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86161410

and the customs here - you constantly go back and compare here with US. so it's pointless conversation.

I replied in response to a poster waffling about the golden days of tipping and the very handsome salaries of servers in the US. That apparently is OK in the discussion, but not my reply correcting him?

Ace2007

MadsL wrote: »

Why is he bitching about them then?



Who is we? 40% of posters on boards DON"T live in Ireland.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86161410



I replied in response to a poster waffling about the golden days of tipping and the very handsome salaries of servers in the US. That apparently is OK in the discussion, but not my reply correcting him?

so the 80% do = the majority.
ty and good night

MadsL

Artful_Badger wrote: »

I was talking about here. If it was standard procedure as you seem to think it should be to tip 20% of your meal/drinks direct to the servers who would already be on at least min wage it they would be well paid jobs.

But min wage in Ireland is $11.09 an hour, over 30% higher than the $7 average in the US. Therefore the tip levels (the accepted tip level) would be lower.

Besides tipped staff get a much lower min wage.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

I'm not that old.

When was this golden age then?

Not poor service as in bad service. I meant I didnt get the whole unfortunate service staff need tips to survive vibe. AS I said where I was those jobs were the best around and if you wanted one in the summer you had to buy it.

Where and when?

I'm not sure you are capable of not being snobby going by what you've posted on here tbh. Whats it matter what type of restaurant it is if you're arguing all service staff should be tipped ? Being on minimum wage doesnt exclude you from eating out on occasion either.

A shelf stacker may save up and go out for a nice meal. The point I was making was that he/she should not be exempted from tipping based on the wage they are on.

And snobby? Do link to a post of mine you considered snobby. I don't judge anyone for what they do or what they earn.

Why would you need an exemption card for something that not obligatory ? Business charges what it expects for its services. Those who want to tip, tip and those who dont, dont. Its simple enough really.

I'd say those of us that do tip feel that those that don't tip are getting a bit of a free ride on our generosity frankly.

MadsL

Ace2007 wrote: »

so the 80% do = the majority.
ty and good night

I checked the survey...

It's 40%. When it gets to 51% can we stop the whining about "This is Ireland", it's as boring as the culchie "Not everyone lives in Dublin" whinge.

Artful_Badger

MadsL wrote: »

But min wage in Ireland is $11.09 an hour, over 30% higher than the $7 average in the US. Therefore the tip levels (the accepted tip level) would be lower.

Besides tipped staff get a much lower min wage.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

Which has nothing to do with tipping in Ireland. You have spent your time in this thread trying to tell us all we should be tipping. Most people on this website and pretty much everyone you have spoken to here live in Ireland.

Tipping in America and American min wage is irrelevant.

When was this golden age then?

Recently enough.

Where and when?

America, recently enough....

A shelf stacker may save up and go out for a nice meal. The point I was making was that he/she should not be exempted from tipping based on the wage they are on.

So you expect someone to tip another person who earns more then them for just because they work in a restaurant ? Makes no sense.

And snobby? Do link to a post of mine you considered snobby. I don't judge anyone for what they do or what they earn.

I dont have to, look above. "A shelf stacker may save up and go out for a nice meal". Not to mention all the crap about the fast food eating joe soaps who are used to eating anything but chipper grub. :rolleyes:

I'd say those of us that do tip feel that those that don't tip are getting a bit of a free ride on our generosity frankly.

Another nonsensical statement. You're paying the same as anyone else for the service. You just give certain individuals free money. Nobody but the person getting the money is benefiting.

You seem to have a problem with my posts - perhaps you would like to be clearer about what you perceive to be the problem?

Problem is you're on a one man campaign trying to claim the American culture of tipping applies universally. It doesnt and you've been shown to be wrong on so many things in this thread it defies belief that you're still stubbornly carrying on with this crap of talking absolute nonsense.

Its a waste of time talking to you to be perfectly honest. Bye bye now.

Crooked Jack

MadsL wrote: »

I checked the survey...

It's 40%. When it gets to 51% can we stop the whining about "This is Ireland", it's as boring as the culchie "Not everyone lives in Dublin" whinge.

Oh man youre just all kinds of snob

Crooked Jack

Lyaiera wrote: »

There should be more tipping. Tip everyone. Someone does something good? Tip them. But only if they do something good. If they just do their job then they should be paid their wage. Do they do something particularly impressive? Go above and beyond? Tip them. Are they in a job where they can't or don't normally accept tips? Send them a present. Don't expect anything in return, but let someone feel appreciated.

Please explain to me how a waiter could go above and beyond. surely all the things they do are just part and parcel of their job

shruikan2553

MadsL wrote: »

I checked the survey...

It's 40%. When it gets to 51% can we stop the whining about "This is Ireland", it's as boring as the culchie "Not everyone lives in Dublin" whinge.

While there are people from outside of Ireland on this website most of those people probably spent time in Ireland at some point of their lives. While discussing from the point of view of other cultures is fine the person doing so needs to notice that there is a good chance that the topic is from the point of view of Ireland.

If you said that everything you think about tipping is from the American perspective then you would have valid points. Instead you have been trying to insist that we work tipping in the same manner as the US which isn't true.

MadsL

shruikan2553 wrote: »

While there are people from outside of Ireland on this website most of those people probably spent time in Ireland at some point of their lives. While discussing from the point of view of other cultures is fine the person doing so needs to notice that there is a good chance that the topic is from the point of view of Ireland.

If you said that everything you think about tipping is from the American perspective then you would have valid points. Instead you have been trying to insist that we work tipping in the same manner as the US which isn't true.

Well, you most certainly do not NOT have tipping. If there was no tipping in Ireland we wouldn't be have the discussion now would we. I'd have zero problem with a no tipping culture. It's the grumpy "why should I tip, they are only doing their job" attitude that I dislike - I don't know why, it seems to have appeared in Ireland in the past 10 years - tipping in restaurants has always been there in Ireland, why now are a good chunk of people getting grumpy about it?

And do I have to explain for the umpteenth time I lived in Ireland for 15 years. That's probably longer than some of you have been adults.

MadsL

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Please explain to me how a waiter could go above and beyond. surely all the things they do are just part and parcel of their job

I already have.

MadsL

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Oh man youre just all kinds of snob

Which posts of mine are 'snobby' - this one perhaps? Where I am defending nail techs being laughed at?

shruikan2553

MadsL wrote: »

Well, you most certainly do not NOT have tipping. If there was no tipping in Ireland we wouldn't be have the discussion now would we.

There is tipping in Ireland, I dont think anyone has been trying to claim otherwise.

MadsL wrote: »

I'd have zero problem with a no tipping culture. It's the grumpy "why should I tip, they are only doing their job" attitude that I dislike - I don't know why, it seems to have appeared in Ireland in the past 10 years - tipping in restaurants has always been there in Ireland, why now are a good chunk of people getting grumpy about it?

Well why should some jobs get tips and not others? If I slip the woman behind the desk at A&E a 20 will I get seen sooner? The idea of tipping for very good service isn't seen as too much by most, its the idea that we should expect to tip instead of just having it in the price. A common complaint people have if they have shopped in the US is that their prices don't include tax, we like to see something that is advertised at 20 euro and then pay 20 euro, not 22-24 euro.

MadsL wrote: »

And do I have to explain for the umpteenth time I lived in Ireland for 15 years. That's probably longer than some of you have been adults.

So you should be able to tell the difference of tipping in the US and Ireland.

MadsL

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Which has nothing to do with tipping in Ireland. You have spent your time in this thread trying to tell us all we should be tipping. Most people on this website and pretty much everyone you have spoken to here live in Ireland.

Tipping in America and American min wage is irrelevant.

So there is no tipping AT ALL in Ireland. ?? Drawing comparisons with a tipping culture and Ireland's totally schizophrenic modern "sort-of-tipping" culture with Mr Pink as some kind of revolutionary leader figurehead is irrelevant then you think?

Recently enough.

America, recently enough....

Vague enough. Care to narrow it down to a decade and a State?

So you expect someone to tip another person who earns more then them for just because they work in a restaurant ? Makes no sense.

Do you expect the shelf stacker to be polite and help you find the cheese section? Do you thank them for it? Same thing.

I dont have to, look above. "A shelf stacker may save up and go out for a nice meal".

Hang on. You are the one complaining about people on low incomes paying tips and somehow not having to. I believe in equal opportunity tipping. I'm not blind as to low wages. I certainly wasn't eating out in restaurants when I was making min wage. You think me mentioning that is 'snobby'. You need a new dictionary.

Not to mention all the crap about the fast food eating joe soaps who are used to eating anything but chipper grub. :rolleyes:

Where did I say that? Because I pointed out that Capt. America's is only a step up from fast food. It is. Do you dispute it? Very well. How many things on the menu are prepared with a deep fat fyer or a grill?

Another nonsensical statement. You're paying the same as anyone else for the service. You just give certain individuals free money. Nobody but the person getting the money is benefiting.

Everyone benefits from better service, tippers are encouraging better service and as I pointed out earlier, service in Ireland can be absolutely shocking, some of the worst food service I have experienced outside of a Saturday night in Rhyl.

Problem is you're on a one man campaign trying to claim the American culture of tipping applies universally.

Define the culture of tipping in Ireland then please. Should I never tip? Sometimes tip? If I feel like it? Why is tipping now unacceptable yet clearly existed in Ireland for a century or more?

It doesnt and you've been shown to be wrong on so many things in this thread it defies belief that you're still stubbornly carrying on with this crap of talking absolute nonsense.

Shown to be wrong?? Such as? That you don't tip hairdressers? Oh wait, you do. That you don't tip taxis, oh wait you do. The flip-flopping back and forth is too funny.

Its a waste of time talking to you to be perfectly honest. Bye bye now.

G'night Sir, here's your coat.
*holds hand out for tip*

MadsL

shruikan2553 wrote: »

There is tipping in Ireland, I dont think anyone has been trying to claim otherwise.

Then why do some people feel that the is no tipping in restaurants (when there clearly is) and do the whole Mr Pink act. Stinginess? Moral objection?

Well why should some jobs get tips and not others?

Service levels.

If I slip the woman behind the desk at A&E a 20 will I get seen sooner? The idea of tipping for very good service isn't seen as too much by most, its the idea that we should expect to tip instead of just having it in the price.

Try it and see

However, judging by the attitudes about getting seated first shown on here, I am suprised people feel they shouldn't be seen in order of arrival rather than triage.

A common complaint people have if they have shopped in the US is that their prices don't include tax, we like to see something that is advertised at 20 euro and then pay 20 euro, not 22-24 euro.

At 7% rather than 23% I don't much care.

So you should be able to tell the difference of tipping in the US and Ireland.

Can you explain the major difference in a nutshell? How much should I tip in an Irish restaurant? And why doesn't everyone do it? Please, you live in Ireland, should be easy to explain.

StinkyMunkey

The Irish are just stingy feckers when it comes to tipping.

Tipping is not expected in Ireland, but it is appreciated. The vast majority of tipping happens in restaurants in Ireland.

I tip in general, so when I went the states it was no big deal tipping for me.

HansHolzel

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

The Irish are just stingy feckers when it comes to tipping.

Amen

shruikan2553

MadsL wrote: »

Then why do some people feel that the is no tipping in restaurants (when there clearly is) and do the whole Mr Pink act. Stinginess? Moral objection?

They just have yet to receive a level service that goes beyond what they expect for someone who is doing their job.

MadsL wrote: »

Service levels.

What are these levels? Do you have to bring someone something before you qualify for a tip?

MadsL wrote: »

Can you explain the major difference in a nutshell? How much should I tip in an Irish restaurant? And why doesn't everyone do it? Please, you live in Ireland, should be easy to explain.

It is very easy to explain and many points have been explained already. In Ireland we have a minimum wage, outside of jobsbridge and commission only jobs you cannot be paid any less than this amount. In the US there are 2 min wages depending on state, 1 for jobs that dont receive tips and 1 lower min wage for jobs that do receive tips. In the US tips are expected to make up the difference while in Ireland the person is earning at least minimum wage already so any tips are extra. In Ireland a person should tip however much they feel is appropriate. If people don't give a tip they dont feel the person deserves a bonus just as an employer would only give a bonus or promotion to those that are the best.

MadsL

shruikan2553 wrote: »

They just have yet to receive a level service that goes beyond what they expect for someone who is doing their job.

Sorry, but bull. I know people who wouldn't tip if you wiped their arse for them.

What are these levels? Do you have to bring someone something before you qualify for a tip?

You perform a personal service in a business that you don't own would generally be my spirit level. So I might tip a massage therapist at a spa, but not one running their own studio.

]It is very easy to explain and many points have been explained already. In Ireland we have a minimum wage, outside of jobsbridge and commission only jobs you cannot be paid any less than this amount. In the US there are 2 min wages depending on state, 1 for jobs that dont receive tips and 1 lower min wage for jobs that do receive tips. In the US tips are expected to make up the difference while in Ireland the person is earning at least minimum wage already so any tips are extra. In Ireland a person should tip however much they feel is appropriate. If people don't give a tip they dont feel the person deserves a bonus just as an employer would only give a bonus or promotion to those that are the best.

Why is there no accepted practise then, as those of us that tip are increasing service levels for those that don't? To my mind, and many others, it appears to be an excuse for stinginess.

osarusan

MadsL wrote: »

You perform a personal service in a business that you don't own would generally be my spirit level. So I might tip a massage therapist at a spa, but not one running their own studio.

Is this the third or fourth different reason you've given for why you tip somebody?

Forget the fact that they contradict each other, keep going and you might hit on one that people like.

Crooked Jack

MadsL wrote: »

I already have.

No you didnt, you merely listed the expected duties of a waiter. being friendly or giving information on the options in the menu are hardly going above and beyond

HansHolzel

osarusan wrote: »

you might hit on one that people like.

What kind of people don't like tipping? Stingy people.