Tipping

Tiddlypeeps

MadsL wrote: »

When I ran a kitchen I calculated a food cost multiple (plus a can get away with factor) to calculate menu prices but not service costs as we added a % to the bill.

That's a very american way of doing things. A lot of Irish people wouldn't appreciate seeing a % service charge on their bill at the end of a meal, the same people wouldn't bat an eyelid if the food was priced that same % higher on the menu. With the latter they'd be likely to leave a tip on top too, but with the former they would begrudgingly handover exactly what was required.

MadsL

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

That's a very american way of doing things. A lot of Irish people wouldn't appreciate seeing a % service charge on their bill at the end of a meal, the same people wouldn't bat an eyelid if the food was priced that same % higher on the menu. With the latter they'd be likely to leave a tip on top too, but with the former they would begrudgingly handover exactly what was required.

Like I said, above a certain service level. We are obviously above pub carvery level...

I don't believe it to be an American way of doing things; "Is service included?" is a pretty common question in UK/Ireland.

Which decent level restaurant in Dublin for instance includes service in its menu prices?

Artful_Badger

SV wrote: »

True I guess, I just figured I'll make it up the next time I'm in there, they usually have the same staff on.

You left 100 euro in the place, there is nothing to be guilty about. If someone had the cheek to whinge about a tip to me after paying a bill for 98.50 I wouldnt be returning.

MadsL

Artful_Badger wrote: »

You left 100 euro in the place, there is nothing to be guilty about. If someone had the cheek to whinge about a tip to me after paying a bill for 98.50 I wouldnt be returning.

Leaving only 1.50 implies a problem with the service, I wouldn't be whining I would be checking for a problem. Irish diners are terrible for saying nothing when there is a problem.

Crooked Jack

SV wrote: »

Jesus I think the exact same, sort of related but was in Captain Americas the other day and all the food came to €98.50 now I had nothing but 50s on me so I wasn't going to tip 50 but the €1.50 tip was surely an insult considering the size of the bill.
Felt like a right príck leaving, as they'd provided a great service that was deserving of the tip.

You just dropped €100 in the place. Why the fuck would you feel like a prick?
I dont expect everyone who reads an article I wrote in the paper to come round and throw me a fiver, and you can bet your life I'm not earning much more than anyone waiting in a restaurant.

Artful_Badger

MadsL wrote: »

That's the point I am making - that the service is added on top of the food price in most restaurants above a certain service level/price point.

You said that a service charge wasnt included in the food cost unless otherwise stated.

Its the opposite. It IS included in the food cost unless otherwise stated. And I've been to plenty restaurants "above a certain level/price" and 99% of them made no mention of a service charge added on top of the bill. Its mostly the trendy cafe type places that add service charges while the actual restaurants factor it all into the cost of the food.

Artful_Badger

MadsL wrote: »

Leaving only 1.50 implies a problem with the service, I wouldn't be whining I would be checking for a problem. Irish diners are terrible for saying nothing when there is a problem.

Leaving 1.50 could imply a lot of things. Rule number 1 of customer service. Never complain to a paying customer about not giving more than they are obliged to. Which asking if there was a problem after they have paid the bill in full + extra is. I'd imagine after paying that much he was asked at the table if how everything was.

MadsL

Artful_Badger wrote: »

You said that a service charge wasnt included in the food cost unless otherwise stated.

Apologies. My wording was confusing. I mean that a service charge is usually added and not included in the menu price.

Its the opposite. It IS included in the food cost unless otherwise stated. And I've been to plenty restaurants "above a certain level/price" and 99% of them made no mention of a service charge added on top of the bill. Its mostly the trendy cafe type places that add service charges while the actual restaurants factor it all into the cost of the food.

Care to name a couple with websites? I guarantee parties of six or more will have a compulsory service charge.

MadsL

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Leaving 1.50 could imply a lot of things. Rule number 1 of customer service. Never complain to a paying customer about not giving more than they are obliged to. Which asking if there was a problem after they have paid the bill in full + extra is. I'd imagine after paying that much he was asked at the table if how everything was.

Where did I suggest that. I would have simply asked "Was the service to your satisfaction, Sir"

I find it absurd that someone finds it more embarrassing to ask for change than to leave a 1.5% tip.

lkionm

MadsL wrote: »

Leaving only 1.50 implies a problem with the service, I wouldn't be whining I would be checking for a problem. Irish diners are terrible for saying nothing when there is a problem.

Christ yes. You can see they are being whingey Gowls and picking and humming over stuff. You go over and ask them did someone piss in their coffee or something and they smile and say oh no it's fine.

Then you ask them when they leave to go have a **** for themselves they say yes it was fine.

They would rather bitch to their friends than say something and they can just replace it or make a new one no bother and they leave happy.

Customers are ****, pure and simple. Filthy disgusting creatures.

Artful_Badger

MadsL wrote: »

Apologies. My wording was confusing. I mean that a service charge is usually added and not included in the menu price.


Care to name a couple with websites? I guarantee parties of six or more will have a compulsory service charge.

Not particularly, I googled a couple but dont see websites. Seen a couple similar ones in dublin which did have service charges though, perhaps its a city thing. The ones I frequent would be more rural places but I assure you there was no service charge despite the service being top notch..

MadsL wrote: »

Where did I suggest that. I would have simply asked "Was the service to your satisfaction, Sir"

I find it absurd that someone finds it more embarrassing to ask for change than to leave a 1.5% tip.

You ask if everything was ok before the bill is paid, cleaning away the plates, when they ask for the bill etc. The paying of the bill ends the interaction. To ask after that is implying that they stiffed you when paying. Which is complaining in my book.

Personally I wouldnt be embarrassed I just wouldnt be too bothered about the tip considering I was already paying so much money.

Werewolf In London

15%

MadsL

lkionm wrote: »

Christ yes. You can see they are being whingey Gowls and picking and humming over stuff. You go over and ask them did someone piss in their coffee or something and they smile and say oh no it's fine.

Then you ask them when they leave to go have a **** for themselves they say yes it was fine.

They would rather bitch to their friends than say something and they can just replace it or make a new one no bother and they leave happy.

Customers are ****, pure and simple. Filthy disgusting creatures.

I know. It used to drive me bonkers. However, the knowledge of the menu and interest in food of (most) American servers is exactly where it should be. They know the menu inside out and can answer any question put to them. I've also experienced Irish waiters/waitresses uttery unable to describe how a dish is prepared without having to "go off and ask" or answer a simple question as to what is in a dish.

Most American servers go to great lengths to completely understand the menu they are presenting and take great pride in their food knowledge.

canadianwoman

If the service was good I'll leave a toonie on the table for the waitress/waiter.

stretchdoe

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/newsfeed/000/000/990/1238806204865.jpg?1318992465

Tiddlypeeps

MadsL wrote: »

Like I said, above a certain service level. We are obviously above pub carvery level...

I don't believe it to be an American way of doing things; "Is service included?" is a pretty common question in UK/Ireland.

Which decent level restaurant in Dublin for instance includes service in its menu prices?

I have never been to a place that had a service charge added at the end of the bill. Granted I only eat out in a fancy restaurant a handful of times in a year so my sample size isn't huge, but if this was as common as you say then the odds of me never encountering it at this stage are pretty slim.

MadsL wrote: »

Care to name a couple with websites? I guarantee parties of six or more will have a compulsory service charge.

That's pretty specific and isn't at all the same as saying all fancy restaurants apply a service charge.

Dealing with large parties is different and a pain in the ass so it's not unreasonable to apply an extra charge to it.

MadsL

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Not particularly, I googled a couple but dont see websites. Seen a couple similar ones in dublin which did have service charges though, perhaps its a city thing. The ones I frequent would be more rural places but I assure you there was no service charge despite the service being top notch..

Maybe it is a city thing...certainly I have rarely experienced it.

You ask if everything was ok before the bill is paid, cleaning away the plates, when they ask for the bill etc. The paying of the bill ends the interaction. To ask after that is implying that they stiffed you when paying. Which is complaining in my book.

I'd read a 1.50 tip as a complaint or possibly a mistake, and would just double check on leaving. Then again this is a step up from fast-food so most customers would not be that clued in.

Personally I wouldnt be embarrassed I just wouldnt be too bothered about the tip considering I was already paying so much money.

You are paying money to the restaurant owners not the staff.

But this is what I hate about these threads, people simply cannot see that people should reward people who give good service.

coffee_cake

Are you the tipping cheerleader

implying that not getting free money means we're only used to fast food isn't going to get you anywhere

Artful_Badger

MadsL wrote: »

Maybe it is a city thing...certainly I have rarely experienced it.

Dont follow..

I'd read a 1.50 tip as a complaint or possibly a mistake, and would just double check on leaving. Then again this is a step up from fast-food so most customers would not be that clued in.

You keep coming out with this bullshít as if people who dont tip are peasants who've never been to a restaurant. Some greedy little shít moaning about a tip on a 100 euro bill is no different than a greasy little shít looking for a service charge on a chicken box. Its extra money that people are not obliged to pay. You have no grounds to complain about it not being enough for you when you are already getting paid to do the fcukcing job.

You are paying money to the restaurant owners not the staff.

Who are in turn using they money to pay the staff. You are already putting money in the staffs pockets by giving your business to the restaurant.

But this is what I hate about these threads, people simply cannot see that people should reward people who give good service.

Take it up with the owner who's paying you to provide the service then. Thinking you are entitled to a bonus by a customer for doing a job you are paid for is bad enough. Whinging when that bonus isnt enough is beyond being selfish and greedy.

It should be entirely voluntary whether or not to tip. Expecting it removes that and in your view it makes a guy on here who left 100 euro in a restaurant a bad person because he didnt give more to the staff who are already getting paid. He did nothing wrong, if you wont like the wages as service staff get a different job. Otherwise be happy to get a bonus even if its modest.

rubadub

MadsL wrote: »

Except that the cost of the food does not include the cost of the service unless it is clearly noted on the menu.

MadsL wrote: »

Lovely grub €19.99

I would not expect to pay €19.99 - I would leave a tip unless I saw "Service included or a X% service charge will be added to your bill. I would make a point of asking if service was included.

When I ran a kitchen I calculated a food cost multiple (plus a can get away with factor) to calculate menu prices but not service costs as we added a % to the bill.

If I saw that menu just saying €20 I would figure the service charge is included, i.e. the waiters wages, as waiters have to be paid min wage here, so are being paid and it should be factored into the costs.

If I am leaving a tip then they are getting that above and beyond their wages. If I see "service charge is 10% and added to the bill", then I just view the €20 price as being €22, so I see no different reason not to leave/not leave a tip, the waiter is being paid in both cases.

They could break down more costs, grub €5, lighting & heat €5, waiting staff €2, rent €5, other overheads €5. The final price is still €22.

I am still unsure how you calculated the costs of your menu prices, and what you did with the money. i.e. were you paying staff a wage, above min wage, and then giving them out a cut of all the nights service charges you collected on top of that?

If I owned a restaurant I would not have my waiters wages estimated by the guesswork of how much I will sell, if I sell nothing one week I still have to pay them. I would treat it like other overheads I have to pay.

MadsL wrote: »

I'd be very insulted if you left 1.50 on a hundred quid tab, in fact I may ask you if something was wrong with the service.

I would think this strange too. But this is certainly not what happened here. He left the small amount of leftover change on a €98.50 tab. If the tab was €100 and he left 2 fifties and a 1.50 tip then I would think something was might have been wrong. -as it looks like they purposely left very little as a sort of protest or sign that the service was only worth 1.50. If somebody was to leave an "protest tip" it would probably be less than €1.50 though, even on a €100 tab. If I owned a restaurant I would not pay much attention to getting no tip, or a "leftover change tip", its quite different to a "protest tip"

coffee_cake

Yea protest tip is more like 1c

shruikan2553

MadsL wrote: »

But this is what I hate about these threads, people simply cannot see that people should reward people who give good service.

People often get rewarded for doing a good job through pay increases, promotions or other benefits.

You blame the customer when it is the employer at fault.

Paddy Fields

LasTime wrote: »

I haven't seen a tipping thread yet.

Tipping and how much?

MadsL

Attitudes on here are the reason Irish restaurants end up with compulsory service charges or pad the menu prices.

But keep not tipping, your ignorance as to how the service industry works means that I can tip $20 and getting a free upgrade from a $25 dollar room at Paris, Las Vegas to a $350 a night room on the 34th floor overlooking the Bellagio.

Or not have to wait at the bar or queue for a table with my elderly parents as I have the sense to tip the hostess or maitre'd when the restaurant is packed.

Or that I get a better table and service when I return to the restaurant.

I expect that 1.50 tip gets you remembered, and waiting at the bar for a table next time you are in.

coffee_cake

I bet you get all the tips with that charm

MadsL

shruikan2553 wrote: »

People often get rewarded for doing a good job through pay increases, promotions or other benefits.

You blame the customer when it is the employer at fault.

I prefer to know that the server gets rewarded. If I get exceptional service I also ask for the manager and praise the server directly to him/her.

shruikan2553

MadsL wrote: »

or pad the menu prices.

Great, that sounds perfect to me, they can be like every other industry.

I helped with research into energy harvesting. Should people hand me a few euro in the streets for my services? They all use electricity!

MadsL wrote: »

I prefer to know that the server gets rewarded. If I get exceptional service I also ask for the manager and praise the server directly to him/her.

What about the guy filling in a pothole? Do you personally go out to reward them yourself?

MadsL

bluewolf wrote: »

I bet you get all the tips with that charm

That directed at me?

MadsL

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Great, that sounds perfect to me, they can be like everyone other industry.

I helped with research into energy harvesting. Should people hand me a few euro in the streets for my services? They all use electricity!

Is a portion of your wage service satisfaction dependant? No? Then hush.

Artful_Badger

MadsL wrote: »

Attitudes on here are the reason Irish restaurants end up with compulsory service charges or pad the menu prices.

But keep not tipping, your ignorance as to how the service industry works means that I can tip $20 and getting a free upgrade from a $25 dollar room at Paris, Las Vegas to a $350 a night room on the 34th floor overlooking the Bellagio.

Or not have to wait at the bar or queue for a table with my elderly parents as I have the sense to tip the hostess or maitre'd when the restaurant is packed.

Or that I get a better table and service when I return to the restaurant.

I expect that 1.50 tip gets you remembered, and waiting at the bar for a table next time you are in.

Yeah all us junk food eating peasants will be left standing at the bar in our economy vegas hotel because we didnt tip the maitre'd.

Because thats exactly how things are in Ireland. :rolleyes: