debt collection letter for a 'debt' I don't owe. (Oxigen bins)

Banjo String

Long story short.

I paid Oxigen, in full, upfront, for a year's service.
11 months into service they send me quote for the next year's service that had increased by 50% (200 first year, they wanted 300 to renew contract) I shopped around, found a better deal with AES, told oxigen I'd not be continuing a new contract, and asked them to remove bins from my house when contract date expired.

AES delivered me new bins very promptly, and started taking away my rubbish, oxigen bins sat at side of house for a few weeks, I called them again asked them to remove bins, called again ac few weeks later, finally 6-8 weeks later (was a year ago, so not exactly sure but definitely 6) they collected old bins.

Then I received an invoice for €30.50 from oxigen for the month the bins sat in my premises, they (even though I cancelled) classed that as a month's service, even though they collected nothing, I already cancelled them, and even had a new refuse collection service with AES.

I called them in dispute with the invoice, was like talking to a brick wall tbh.

This week I receive a debt collector letter with threats of someone possibly calling to door, legal action/Stubbs Gazette, credit rating affected blah blah blah......

I called debt collector explained my story, they didn't give a toss though.

It's only €30, but it's the principle at this stage. I don't take threats very kindly tbh.

Anyone any advice? Where do I stand here?

Thanks

Shane-KornSpace

In my personal opinion, I think you should not contact them again and if these debt collectors call you, don't answer.
If they call to your door, call the Guards.

To be honest, it would cost the collectors more than what you owe to bring you to court so I wouldn't worry about that.

Have your bins been taken yet?

slimjimmc

Shane-KornSpace wrote: »

In my personal opinion, I think you should not contact them again and if these debt collectors call you, don't answer.
If they call to your door, call the Guards.

To be honest, it would cost the collectors more than what you owe to bring you to court so I wouldn't worry about that.

Have your bins been taken yet?

That's an over-the-top reaction and I doubt the Gardaí will be too enamoured with you wasting their time. If debt collectors contact you in any manner tell them to desist any future contact and ask them to leave if they're on your property. Only then, if they persist in contacting you, can you legitimately threaten them with the Gardaí as that could be deemed harassment.

Banjo String

Shane-KornSpace wrote: »

In my personal opinion, I think you should not contact them again and if these debt collectors call you, don't answer.
If they call to your door, call the Guards.

To be honest, it would cost the collectors more than what you owe to bring you to court so I wouldn't worry about that.

Have your bins been taken yet?

Hi.

Yeah bins were taken last year, 6/8 weeks after I cancelled my account.

I actually recall telling the lady on the phone that I had a good mind to invoice oxigen for storing the bins for so long when I called to dispute the invoice I received.

SpaceTime

Send them an invoice for 1 month of bin storage.
If they don't pay, threaten to send debt collectors after them.

Damien360

Banjo String wrote: »

Hi.

Yeah bins were taken last year, 6/8 weeks after I cancelled my account.

I actually recall telling the lady on the phone that I had a good mind to invoice oxigen for storing the bins for so long when I called to dispute the invoice I received.

As it is small money go to the small claims court to recover your money. Give them notice of this and outline your reasons. With luck they will forward to their solicitor and someone will see sense. Do not send to general accounts enquiries as they will not care. Find the email and phone number of finance manager. Ask for him/her if you phone. Do you have to give notice of quitting in their contracts ? Is this the problem ?

slimjimmc

OP, how and when did you cancel?

If the T&Cs of your contract included the following clause then you could indeed be liable if you didn't cancel in the proper manner .

4. Termination of Service

A).This Contract may be terminated by giving at least 30 days written notice either by email or letter. The company will only accept notification regarding change or cancellation of the customer contract from the householder and not from any unauthorised third parties.

The termination date of a contract must coincide with the last date of billing period. If a contract is

terminated before the minimum contract term of 12 months , the following cancellation charges will apply; (i) early cancellation fee of €25 (ii) surcharge of €25 per bin for returning and cleaning the bins.

PS : I'd be astounded if they went to court on this for such a feeble amount, especially since you made efforts to cancel (even if by phone).

keithclancy

slimjimmc wrote: »

OP, how and when did you cancel?

If the T&Cs of your contract included the following clause then you could indeed be liable if you didn't cancel in the proper manner .



PS : I'd be astounded if they went to court on this for such a feeble amount, especially since you made efforts to cancel (even if by phone).

The point was they they said they were renewing the service.

I'd say bin the letters an ignore them.

slimjimmc

keithclancy wrote: »

The point was they they said they were renewing the service.

I'd say bin the letters an ignore them.

The OP told them he was not renewing but as far as we can tell he may not have used the correct procedure as per his contract.

Banjo String wrote: »

told oxigen I'd not be continuing a new contract, and asked them to remove bins from my house when contract date expired.

Banjo String

slimjimmc wrote: »

The OP told them he was not renewing but as far as we can tell he may not have used the correct procedure as per his contract.

I paid for a year upfront. That's what i got.

Upon getting the renewal contract I told them to cancel and to remove their bins.


I spoke with the company sending me the debt letters and basically told them to cease contacting me by any method.

I shall wait and see how it goes.

sandin

Shane-KornSpace wrote: »

If they call to your door, call the Guards.

and then be charged with wasting Gardai time as the gardai do not get involved in civil matters.

Simply write to Oxigen and copy to the debt collectors, inform them that you had cancelled the service and if they wish to pursue the alleged debt to provide you with copies of your contract outlining where they see they can continue charging you after cancellation and their failure to collect the bins.

Also let them know that even though it is a very small amount of money you have no issue in attending court to defend yourself against their bully style tactics.

My guess is you will not hear from them again. Also the letter is probably computer generated and the same letter would go out whether it is €30 or €3000.

As for the threat for stubbs gazette etc - only after a court case can your details be published and no-one is going to take a case for €30 and no-one will send a collector to your door for €30 either. But write to them and cut off any further letters now, otherwise the letters will automatically continue.

Fred Swanson

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slimjimmc

Banjo String wrote: »

I paid for a year upfront. That's what i got.

Upon getting the renewal contract I told them to cancel and to remove their bins.


I spoke with the company sending me the debt letters and basically told them to cease contacting me by any method.

I shall wait and see how it goes.

Yes but how did you tell them? Most service contracts are not a fixed term contracts even if you paid a full year in advance, it's effectively open ended contract with a minimum 12 month term. With such contracts if you don't cancel in the proper manner as per the T&Cs then you tend to remain in contract on a month by month basis. Oxigen require written notice 30 days in advance.

I think had you followed the proper cancellation process in the first place you wouldn't have got this bill.

Banjo String

slimjimmc wrote: »

Yes but how did you tell them? Most service contracts are not a fixed term contracts even if you paid a full year in advance, it's effectively open ended contract with a minimum 12 month term. With such contracts if you don't cancel in the proper manner as per the T&Cs then you tend to remain in contract on a month by month basis. Oxigen require written notice 30 days in advance.

I think had you followed the proper cancellation process in the first place you wouldn't have got this bill.

I received a renewal contract 31 days before my current one expired. I called them immediately and told them not to bother, and to remove their bins from my property.

They got 31 days notice so far as I'm concerned.

Besides. If I go for a coffee, pay for a coffee, does the waiter pour me another, despite me telling him in no uncertain terms not to, then demand payment for me having the coffee shops equipment in my possession?

Thanks for all the advice above guys. I've gone with the general consensus and have decided to stoke the stove with any further written correspondence.

B.S

ardmacha

Simply write to Oxigen and copy to the debt collectors, inform them that you had cancelled the service and if they wish to pursue the alleged debt to provide you with copies of your contract outlining where they see they can continue charging you after cancellation and their failure to collect the bins.

As above, and in your letter to Oxigen ask for all information about your account under Data Protection legislation or at least imply that you will so ask if they do not send you proper details (there may be a small charge for Data protection requests).

Fred Swanson

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TheBoffin

As per the T&C on page http://www.oxigen.ie/Terms-of-Use/terms-of-use.html

It seems they are enforcing the following clause:

F) An account will not be terminated until such time as the company wheelie bins are removed from the Customer’s premises and any monies owed on the account is paid in full.

That being said, you never agreed to or entered into any credit arrangement with the company so the request of €30.50 is moot and the action of them setting up a credit account without your authorization and passing details of said credit account to a debt collection agency is more concerning.

If it were me I would send them a letter via registered post and state the following:

* Services were paid for up-front for a 12 month period
* They were notified as per the renewal notice on the 11th month that services would not be required at the agreement end date
* It would appear a credit account was opened in your name without prior consent (allocation of services yet to be paid)
* Furthermore, personal data appears to have been passed to a 3rd party collection agency without knowledge of credit facility existing
* You have signed up to another service with different company for Month 13 and have proof of same
* Taking 6 weeks to collect their property is not your concern
* Further letters with intent to collect monies sent to you by company or collection agency will contract company to a €20.00 administration fee per letter billed to company while personal visits with prior appointment will incur an administration fee of €50.00 and without prior appointment €99.99 billed to same. In the event where proof of liability can be shown in writing, all said fees will be waived.


The worst thing you can do is nothing as it implies your consent.

Banjo String

As above, in fairness I asked them on the eleventh month to remove bins. This carried on into month twelve, and it tooka further 6 weeks for them to remove bins.

That's 10 weeks from notifying them to remove them. Thanks for the advice.

Banjo String

Thought this had gone away.

Got a letter yesterday from 'Ashtown gate solicitors' demanding that I pay the thirty euro, and low and behold it was the same debt collection agency when called, not a solicitor at all.

Explained circumstances to them again.

Paid for services in full and upfront (never agreed to a credit facility or account)
Told oxigen on month 11 that their renewal price following year (again again a lump sum paid up front) was too high and notice of intent to change suppliers.

The guy on the phone was insistent I had broken my contract, but I repeatedly told him entered no contract, I paid in full, up front for the years service, I never asked for a credit facility to be opened in my name without my consent.

He went on to say that it's only thirty euro, would you not just pay it seeing as it's such a small amount

I told him that I wouldn't pay as much €3 to someone I didn't owe it to (never mind €30). (he seemed to think it was for continuous bin collections despite me being with AES when this invoice was due)

Finished the conversation by telling him I'd ignore future correspondence until such date as I get a court summons, and that I welcomed my my day in court.

Bunch of chancers, and really bad form on oxigens part :mad:

RangeR

Banjo String wrote: »

The guy on the phone was insistent I had broken my contract, but I repeatedly told him entered no contract, I paid in full, up front for the years service, I never asked for a credit facility to be opened in my name without my consent.

He went on to say that it's only thirty euro, would you not just pay it seeing as it's such a small amount

If you want to humour them, ask them which clause in the contract did you break?

If you ring Oxigen and inform them that you are taking legal action against them due to the stress, you will get through to the correct person who will end this.

Banjo String

Already did this ranger.

Oxigen diverted me back to intrum Justitia :mad:

keithclancy

Banjo String wrote: »

Already did this ranger.

Oxigen diverted me back to intrum Justitia :mad:

Just tell them they can take you to court.

MugMugs

Banjo String wrote: »

Already did this ranger.

Oxigen diverted me back to intrum Justitia :mad:

I had similar issues with them some time back.

I sent them a letter specifying one of their terms

Something like "Only bins with a valid label will be collected"

They said that they "would" have collected rubbish anyway but they didn't and I didn't ask them too.

So i wrote to them telling them to piss off and that they did.



I'd just write back to the collections agency and say the Debt isn't owed.

Banjo String

Anyone think intrum Justitia read these forums?

Phone call at lunch time from them, informing me that they'd relay what I told them (paying for a year, receiving a year's service) back to Oxigen.

They said it was a scheduled call, but they could see I contacted them last night and had my explanations.

I'm stubborn as a mule. I won't pay what I don't owe, and I'm sure there are many like me.

Fred Swanson

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