Deutchland v Ireland ko 7:45 in Koln

So can we still qualify or wha'?

Banjaxed82

whiskeyman wrote: »

Didn't use subs because he thought the lads deserved to stay on the pitch.
Oh FFS!!!
Trap lives!

It's sentimental bollix like this that Ruud Dokter has to eliminate from our youth coaches.

We need to be a tad more cut throat.

Pinturicchio

Dunphy plugging his book signing. Legend!

Neeson

What's the poem?

Neeson

Anyone going to Easons or hodges tomorrow?

edgecutter

Much better than we normally played (which isn't saying much). Thought Stokes done well and I don't think Keane would have done the running on the ball like stokes today, so we shouldn't be comparing or slating him.

Gibson's through balls tonight cut Germany to shreds at times, but we are really inferior team to most teams in the world. Hopefully we will see mcgeady play in the next match.

Nolars

edgecutter wrote: »

Much better than we normally played (which isn't saying much). Thought Stokes done well and I don't think Keane would have done the running on the ball like stokes today, so we shouldn't be comparing or slating him.

Gibson's through balls tonight cut Germany to shreds at times, but we are really inferior team to most teams in the world. Hopefully we will see mcgeady play in the next match.

Apart from his mistake that gave them a goal and the 3 chances he fluffed?
inferior team you should like Trap now.

Seaneh

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

It's sentimental bollix like this that Ruud Dokter has to eliminate from our youth coaches.

We need to be a tad more cut throat.

No, it's not.
It's one of the least of our problems in our coaching structure.

We have a culture where (almost entirely unqualified) youth coaches care more about winning the local schoolboy league than they do about helping to develop technically proficient footballers.
The teams that win every schoolboy league in the country, without fail, are the tallest and strongest. Physique beats out technique every time at that level in this country so every manager plays the big lad up front and hoofs balls at him while the smaller players sit on the bench and get no game time, get bored and stop playing.

First thing we need to do is hammer into the heads of the idiots in youth football in Ireland the simple fact that 10-14 year olds do not need to "run laps" for 45 minutes and then have a few drills and a match and go home, that's not ****ing training for kids, it's not even training for adults, it's a waste of 2 hours.

We need to make it so that we don't play 11-a-side until at least 15, 5 or 7 aside on smaller pitches to encourage one touch passing on the deck, smaller goals so players have to work hard to get it in the net. Playing futsol during the winter on indoor and atsro pitches to encourage ball control development.


These are the basics we need to start with.

Until we do that, we might as well be pissing in the wind.

Kenjataimu

bohsboy wrote: »

Ridiculous reasoning.

Not totally ridiculous reasoning imo.

Most keepers will be a lot busier when playing top teams.
If Germany had 28 shots he is going to end up saving a lot of them.

TaosHum

To be fair, King was on a hiding to nothing tonight. Going against one of the best teams in the world, on their home patch, missing both starting CB's, in a meaningless game for Ireland and knowing no matter what he did he was not going to get the job. I can understand why he was just happy to lose honorably, rather than go for it and concede six or seven.

I didn't like the way he set the team up or some of the players he decided to pick, but I understand why he did it.

LeoB

Its very easy to have a few cans of dutch gold and slag off everyone and everything to do with Irish soccer

Fact of the matter is the mistakes Noel King made were no worse than Trap, McCarthy, Stan, Charlton or anyone else made in the last 25 years. Not much point going back and John and his buddies!!! Then it was the ref to blame. But here we are bashing the **** out of him. We were never really going to get a result over there and it could have been 2..2 before Ozil got their 3rd so really it was not as bad as some are painting it.

Forde, Coleman, Clarke, Kelly, Wilson, Stokes and Doyle gave decent accounts. A few other lads are simply not up to International standard come to think of it they are not really outstanding in the premiership.

Germany on the other hand are class all over the pitch with players playing in the priemership, Bundisliga, La Liga week in week out.

He can and probably will make changes for next Tuesday and we probably will win but we are playing a poor side. I would be inclined to go with a more traditional set up 4 4 3 or 4 5 2. I would play Doyle deeper give Gibson the playmaker role

My team for next week would be
Forde

Coleman
Dunne
Clarke
Wilson

McCarthy
Hoolohan
Gibson
Doyle

Stokes
Long

That leaves us with Westwood, O'Brien, O'Shea, Kelly, McGeady, Andy Reid, Pilkington, Keane
But back to my original point the Panel on RTE are pathetic

Lemmy Scott

Thought Damian Delaney done allright

Lemmy Scott

LeoB wrote: »

Its very easy to have a few cans of dutch gold and slag off everyone and everything to do with Irish soccer

Fact of the matter is the mistakes Noel King made were no worse than Trap, McCarthy, Stan, Charlton or anyone else made in the last 25 years. Not much point going back and John and his buddies!!! Then it was the ref to blame. But here we are bashing the **** out of him. We were never really going to get a result over there and it could have been 2..2 before Ozil got their 3rd so really it was not as bad as some are painting it.

Forde, Coleman, Clarke, Kelly, Wilson, Stokes and Doyle gave decent accounts. A few other lads are simply not up to International standard come to think of it they are not really outstanding in the premiership.

Germany on the other hand are class all over the pitch with players playing in the priemership, Bundisliga, La Liga week in week out.

He can and probably will make changes for next Tuesday and we probably will win but we are playing a poor side. I would be inclined to go with a more traditional set up 4 4 3 or 4 5 2. I would play Doyle deeper give Gibson the playmaker role

My team for next week would be
Forde

Coleman
Dunne
Clarke
Wilson

McCarthy
Hoolohan
Gibson
Doyle

Stokes
Long

That leaves us with Westwood, O'Brien, O'Shea, Kelly, McGeady, Andy Reid, Pilkington, Keane
But back to my original point the Panel on RTE are pathetic

You haven't a clue lad half the players you said played well were complete ****e

Charlie19

LeoB wrote: »

Its very easy to have a few cans of dutch gold and slag off everyone and everything to do with Irish soccer

Forde, Coleman, Clarke, Kelly, Wilson, Stokes and Doyle gave decent accounts. A few other lads are simply not up to International standard come to think of it they are not really outstanding in the premiership.

Germany on the other hand are class all over the pitch with players playing in the priemership, Bundisliga, La Liga week in week out.

He can and probably will make changes for next Tuesday and we probably will win but we are playing a poor side. I would be inclined to go with a more traditional set up 4 4 3 or 4 5 2. I would play Doyle deeper give Gibson the playmaker role

But back to my original point the Panel on RTE are pathetic

Totally agree with you that the Fai and Noel King bashing is a bit ott, he was never going to get a result tonight considering the opposition, the venue and the Irish players that was injured or suspended, Even if we could go with a 4 5 2;)

Its common knowledge that the RTE panel is just for having a laugh.

Imhof Tank

LeoB wrote: »

. I would be inclined to go with a more traditional set up 4 4 3 or 4 5 2.

Genius - extra man formations!

devotional1993

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Genius - extra man formations!

Have you not heard of "last man back" is goalie:rolleyes:

Augmerson

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

That performance was no better than the 1-6 last year

Funny because we lost 3-0 this match consider one was offside.

whiskeyman

whiskeyman wrote: »

Didn't use subs because he thought the lads deserved to stay on the pitch.
Oh FFS!!!
Trap lives!

Stephen Kelly was roasted tonight. How in gods name did he look at him for 90 mins? I cannot believe that he didnt bring on one sub. The legacy of Trapasauras lives on. Amazing thing is these FAI idiots are capable of giving this clown the job full time. Ruud Dokter must think he has landed on an alien planet with the almost anti-football oafs he is dealing with on a daily basis.

cson

LeoB wrote: »

Forde, Coleman, Clarke, Kelly, Wilson, Stokes and Doyle gave decent accounts. A few other lads are simply not up to International standard come to think of it they are not really outstanding in the premiership.

Er, no they didn't. Especially so in Stokes case. I think all of us that give Robbie Keane a hard time will only fully understand what he brought to the green shirt once we've no other option but to play the likes of Stokes up front. He had by my count 4 clear cut chances. 4.

Any International striker worth his salt would have put at least 2 of those away nevermind 1. Keano would have had 2 at least if you gave him Stokes chances. He cost us the first goal too. Plain and simple; you can't get away with his ****e touches, average attempts at a finish and poor passing/decision making against the likes of Germany.

As for Kelly, I'm not exactly sure what the **** he was at acceding Phillip Lahm something the equivalent of Lebansraum out on his side of the pitch.

For those of you saying 3-0 was a decent result; that was a German team completely and utterly not bothered about this game. Effectively going through the motions and they still put 3 on us.

simongurnick

LeoB wrote: »

Its very easy to have a few cans of dutch gold and slag off everyone and everything to do with Irish soccer

That's a bit harsh on Dunphy

Grid.

Bring back Trap!!:pac:

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Stephen Kelly was roasted tonight. How in gods name did he look at him for 90 mins? I cannot believe that he didnt bring on one sub. The legacy of Trapasauras lives on. Amazing thing is these FAI idiots are capable of giving this clown the job full time. Ruud Dokter must think he has landed on an alien planet with the almost anti-football oafs he is dealing with on a daily basis.

It's going to take an awful lot of time for anything to change. There were a couple of times at I think 1-0 when we'd play out of defence and someone would say "Jaysus, we can actually pass it" but once we got within 30 yards of the goal we couldn't. Putting younger players in to get beaten by 5 goals everytime they play a half-decent side isn't the way forward. There's no easy answers and I don't think people will be patient enough for the right answers to play out in terms of results.

simongurnick

Deleted User wrote: »

It's going to take an awful lot of time for anything to change. There were a couple of times at I think 1-0 when we'd play out of defence and someone would say "Jaysus, we can actually pass it" but once we got within 30 yards of the goal we couldn't. Putting younger players in to get beaten by 5 goals everytime they play a half-decent side isn't the way forward. There's no easy answers and I don't think people will be patient enough for the right answers to play out in terms of results.

True. We are finishing fourth and it may be years until we get out of the doldrums.

Hank Scorpio

Always winced at S Kelly when he on the Irish team, never understood how he got to play at premiership level

grenache

What happened after the full time whistle? I was listening to Radio 1 commentary at work and they mentioned Robbie Keane in some fracas with Kobi Loewe?

He thought he was Kobe Bryant.

LuckyLloyd

cson wrote: »

Er, no they didn't. Especially so in Stokes case. I think all of us that give Robbie Keane a hard time will only fully understand what he brought to the green shirt once we've no other option but to play the likes of Stokes up front. He had by my count 4 clear cut chances. 4.

Any International striker worth his salt would have put at least 2 of those away nevermind 1. Keano would have had 2 at least if you gave him Stokes chances. He cost us the first goal too. Plain and simple; you can't get away with his ****e touches, average attempts at a finish and poor passing/decision making against the likes of Germany.

As for Kelly, I'm not exactly sure what the **** he was at acceding Phillip Lahm something the equivalent of Lebansraum out on his side of the pitch.

For those of you saying 3-0 was a decent result; that was a German team completely and utterly not bothered about this game. Effectively going through the motions and they still put 3 on us.

Well said. The penny hasn't dropped yet for the posters on here. Trapp wasn't holding us back. We're rubbish.

Kerrigooney

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well said. The penny hasn't dropped yet for the posters on here. Trapp wasn't holding us back. We're rubbish.

And will be for some time. Lean times ahead.

cson

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well said. The penny hasn't dropped yet for the posters on here. Trapp wasn't holding us back. We're rubbish.

Tbh it was only really last night it dropped for me; I think Trap messed up squad wise in excluding/preferring certain players but his tactics were spot on for what we have at our disposal. We tried to play the ball for spells last night but just lost it and gifted the Germans chances. But for David Forde it'd have been 5 or 6 easily. The worst thing is that they weren't even trying.

Looks very bleak for us if I'm honest; we might get Euro 2016 with the right manager in charge but it'll only be because they're expanding it. Unless something major happens and we somehow unearth some serious talent in the next year or two we're a long way off qualifying for a World Cup again.

bizmark

You didnt honestly believe that the play style and confidence in themselfs the team and the tactics would change over night ? Even if it could of been 5 or 6 easily it wasnt and we created some chances against one of the best teams in the world we arent the best but its not all doom and gloom

Another thing everytime that we play a bigger team i see that "they werent even trying" line totted out be it holland france or germany dont think its true

ThunbergsAreGo

cson wrote: »

Tbh it was only really last night it dropped for me; I think Trap messed up squad wise in excluding/preferring certain players but his tactics were spot on for what we have at our disposal. We tried to play the ball for spells last night but just lost it and gifted the Germans chances. But for David Forde it'd have been 5 or 6 easily. The worst thing is that they weren't even trying.

Looks very bleak for us if I'm honest; we might get Euro 2016 with the right manager in charge but it'll only be because they're expanding it. Unless something major happens and we somehow unearth some serious talent in the next year or two we're a long way off qualifying for a World Cup again.

Must disagree with this, he made possibly one save i wouldnt expect a semi competent keeper to make. Westwood should come in for him.

Its a long long road back but yesterday was always a shot to nothing, looking forward to Tuesday night, hopefully we will see a few of our more progressive players thrown in.

The no subs made last night baffled me

tigger123

naughtb4 wrote: »

Must disagree with this, he made possibly one save i wouldnt expect a semi competent keeper to make. Westwood should come in for him.

Its a long long road back but yesterday was always a shot to nothing, looking forward to Tuesday night, hopefully we will see a few of our more progressive players thrown in.

The no subs made last night baffled me

David Forde had a fantastic game, and he's gonna challenge Westwood for the starting spot. Give credit where it's due.

ThunbergsAreGo

tigger123 wrote: »

David Forde had a fantastic game, and he's gonna challenge Westwood for the starting spot. Give credit where it's due.

Ill call it decent, seems like a good buy who is delighted to be there and no chance with the goals. Was more saying i didnt think we gave up that much clear cut chances which required saves that you wouldnt expect a keeper to make. We could have lost 2-1 as much as 6-0

His distribution does let him down alot though especially when the default for a lot of our defenders is to pass it backwards

theoneeyedman

tigger123 wrote: »

David Forde had a fantastic game, and he's gonna challenge Westwood for the starting spot. Give credit where it's due.

I agree with the earlier post, few if any of the saves he made were ones you wouldn't expect him to make. He did however do his job competently enough. He has a big weakness in his game which is his kicking, I expect Westwood is better in this area.

Re King, he was so out of his depth it was scandelous. Even allowing for the ineptness of the FAI, this guy is in full time employment with them as a coach/manager for how long, the last 10/12 years?. How in the name of all that is holy can this be. It was clear by his team selection that he was struggling, but to leave the team unchanged for 90 minutes beggars belief. And then to come out on TV smiling and laughing and saying we played well......if ever there is a symbol for why soccer will never be number one in this country, it is Mr King

gosplan

theoneeyedman wrote: »

I agree with the earlier post, few if any of the saves he made were ones you wouldn't expect him to make. He did however do his job competently enough. He has a big weakness in his game which is his kicking, I expect Westwood is better in this area.

Re King, he was so out of his depth it was scandelous. Even allowing for the ineptness of the FAI, this guy is in full time employment with them as a coach/manager for how long, the last 10/12 years?. How in the name of all that is holy can this be. It was clear by his team selection that he was struggling, but to leave the team unchanged for 90 minutes beggars belief. And then to come out on TV smiling and laughing and saying we played well......if ever there is a symbol for why soccer will never be number one in this country, it is Mr King

Wow.

One game in and he's the ultimate example of what's wrong with soccer in this country.

You buddy have no idea of the man, what he's done, how good he is. You also have no idea of coaching at a high level.

You're judging his entire existence and career on a single game where we were hopelessly outgunned and where he was obviously out of his depth.

You want what now? an ex premiership manager to be taking tiny coaching roles in the FAI? A potentially successful LOI manager who might move up the ranks in club managent to refuse it and instead accept the dead end that is managing the national under 21s?

Superficial, uninformed, unrealistic points of view like yours are what's wrong with the nations football IMO. If we get a golden generation, it'll be fine but that aside, you'll tear any decent foundations down through constant pissing and moaning because they're not meeting the most rediculous of expectations.

grenache

grenache wrote: »

What happened after the full time whistle? I was listening to Radio 1 commentary at work and they mentioned Robbie Keane in some fracas with Kobi Loewe?

^^^^^^

Can somebody answer this question for me?!

parasite

grenache wrote: »

^^^^^^

Can somebody answer this question for me?!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2455078/Germany-3-Rep-Ireland-0-Mesut-Ozil-Andre-Schurrle-ensures-safe-passage-Brazil-Lows-men.html

Chucky the tree

cson wrote: »

Tbh it was only really last night it dropped for me; I think Trap messed up squad wise in excluding/preferring certain players but his tactics were spot on for what we have at our disposal. We tried to play the ball for spells last night but just lost it and gifted the Germans chances. But for David Forde it'd have been 5 or 6 easily. The worst thing is that they weren't even trying.

Looks very bleak for us if I'm honest; we might get Euro 2016 with the right manager in charge but it'll only be because they're expanding it. Unless something major happens and we somehow unearth some serious talent in the next year or two we're a long way off qualifying for a World Cup again.

His tactics weren't spot on. No one can claim his tactics are spot on when he never changes them. Last night was certainly a game were hoof ball and playing tight is the way to go. But last night we also showed we can be somewhat decent when we pass the ball. Whatever Trapps tactics being right for Germany there is no way we should be playing hoof ball against the likes of Faore Islands or kazakistan. That was Trapps problem, he had no willingness to ever change.

theoneeyedman

gosplan wrote: »

Wow.

One game in and he's the ultimate example of what's wrong with soccer in this country.

You buddy have no idea of the man, what he's done, how good he is. You also have no idea of coaching at a high level.

You're judging his entire existence and career on a single game where we were hopelessly outgunned and where he was obviously out of his depth.

You want what now? an ex premiership manager to be taking tiny coaching roles in the FAI? A potentially successful LOI manager who might move up the ranks in club managent to refuse it and instead accept the dead end that is managing the national under 21s?

Superficial, uninformed, unrealistic points of view like yours are what's wrong with the nations football IMO. If we get a golden generation, it'll be fine but that aside, you'll tear any decent foundations down through constant pissing and moaning because they're not meeting the most rediculous of expectations.

Any organisation that is ran in a middling organised way will have a degree of sucession planning. Now leaving aside that a full time manager hasn't been appointed, that Mr King is seen as being the next best option is crazy. He was completly clueless. If the system in the FAI has king at the top of its coaching pyramid then they are going backwards. There are a lot of coaches in Rugby, GAA etc that have built up a depth of knowledge through education and apply them to their sport in a reasoned rational manner. I'm sure the soccer world isn't greatly different, but little of that was in evidence this week or last night.
I can only judge on the evidence before me. Mr King looked like someone thrown into a situation that was completly alien to him and to which he was unsuited.
It is not unrealistic to expect a coach to have a team set up in a thought out manner. King appeared to have no real idea of what the team were doing or what he wanted them to do.

gosplan

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Any organisation that is ran in a middling organised way will have a degree of sucession planning. Now leaving aside that a full time manager hasn't been appointed, that Mr King is seen as being the next best option is crazy. He was completly clueless. If the system in the FAI has king at the top of its coaching pyramid then they are going backwards. There are a lot of coaches in Rugby, GAA etc that have built up a depth of knowledge through education and apply them to their sport in a reasoned rational manner. I'm sure the soccer world isn't greatly different, but little of that was in evidence this week or last night.
I can only judge on the evidence before me. Mr King looked like someone thrown into a situation that was completly alien to him and to which he was unsuited.
It is not unrealistic to expect a coach to have a team set up in a thought out manner. King appeared to have no real idea of what the team were doing or what he wanted them to do.

He's an under 21 coach. No ambitious coach in the world wants that job - think Stuart Pearce for England.

The successful LOI coaches are the ones at the top of the football pyramid in this country.

I just think it's hugely unfair to say that this small time coach, who's probably on very little money, is an example of what's wrong with football here. We're basing it all one game, his first, vrs Germany. You've no idea what he was trying to do or what his tactics were. But somehow if these had been more obvious to you, if we played a regular 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 with Reid in the hole but lost 3-0 still, then he'd be fine??

fryup

i wonder will robbie keane be fit for tuedays night game??

he missed last years match with germany as well...hmmmm

maybe deep down he felt it was a lost cause??

tigger123

fryup wrote: »

i wonder will robbie keane be fit for tuedays night game??

he missed last years match with germany as well...hmmmm

maybe deep down he felt it was a lost cause??

Of all the criticism that has been aimed at Keane, I don't there's ever been a situation where he didn't give 100%.

Dempsey

gosplan wrote: »

He's an under 21 coach. No ambitious coach in the world wants that job - think Stuart Pearce for England.

One of the most ridiculous comments I've read on here in a while.

Ferris_Bueller

I don't think it's fair to lay into Noel King based on last night, most coaches would have struggled in his situation. He may have got it wrong tactically or in his player selection, but all coaches have done this at some point in their career, if he learns from the mistakes then he can't be blamed too much.

Disappointing performance from us I thought, really worried about the future of this team. None of our players last night wanted the ball or looked comfortable when in possession, which is a big worry. Perhaps it was the quality of the opposition that made us look so poor, but I will be watching the game on Tuesday closely to see if there is any improvement, there is no reason for our players to shy away from the ball at home to Kazakhstan. Personally think Doyle has no place in the squad anymore, Stokes was disappointing but I would have him in my squad ahead of Keogh/Doyle/Sammon. Recently I am starting to question James McCarthy, a talented player no doubt who has put in some excellent performances for Wigan over the past few years, but I have watched him once or twice for Everton and Ireland this year and he hasn't been very good, he still has time on his side and hopefully it is only a matter of time before he beds into the Everton team - but he is a player I had placed a lot of hope in, but his performances of late have me questioning him.

noodler

Well done to Forde.

He really looks a cut abovw Westwood and should be our number one for the foreeable future.

I thought Stokes did well last night as well - gotta give him some praise where due.

Not too much else to praise. The shape of the team I agreed with but the personel were really weird - and no subs was just stupid.

theoneeyedman

gosplan wrote: »

You've no idea what he was trying to do or what his tactics were. But somehow if these had been more obvious to you, if we played a regular 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 with Reid in the hole but lost 3-0 still, then he'd be fine??

Unfortunately it seems neither did he.
I've no real problem getting beaten by Germany away it's the manner of the performance I've a problem with.
As for saying no ambitious coach wants to be under 21 coach...that is ridiculous

briany

It was nice to see a few new faces in the team. In a game where there was little more than pride to play for, it was good to see a few bridges being mended.

What was disheartening was watching that German team who were, let's face it, just better in pretty much every way. Cleverer, quicker, stronger, you name it. If that's a bad German team then I'm pretty glad that Ireland didn't have to face a good one.

I enjoyed Johnny Logan's rendition of the anthem.

I wish the Irish away support would leave out The Fields of Athenry. That song really jumped the shark at Euro 2012 and they only belt out the chorus which isn't even the best lyrics in the thing.

Stokes's fluffed chances on goal really summed up the Irish team on the night. Never lacking in spirit but technically inept and holding a woefully blunt cutting edge.

keeponhurling

Just on the way home from Koln.

Even given how good the Germans are, it was a pretty poor display.
I really don't know why king selected Doyle out the wing, worse still he left him on on for the full 90.
For the rest I guess King hasn't much choice.
Was McGeady in the squad, or injured?

Forde was good, arguably Stokes and Whelan did ok, the rest were poor.
Our THREE centre midfielders were abysmal, hard to believe they are professional footballers, cannot pass it.
Back four were poor too, kept giving the ball back to the Germans. Coleman and Kelly had nightmares.

Mocha Joe

fryup wrote: »

i wonder will robbie keane be fit for tuedays night game??

he missed last years match with germany as well...hmmmm

maybe deep down he felt it was a lost cause??

Absolutely ludicrous comment.

gnfnrhead

In Dublin, Germany bent us over and had their way with us. Last night we actually tried to give them a game but the difference in class was obvious. For me, last night was a much better effort and not one that warrants the critisism King is getting.

Tuesday will tell us much more than last night.