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Garda using the force.

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  • 11-10-2013 9:47pm
    #1
    juneireland
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭


    Can someone tell me if this is correct. My sons girlfriend received a summons in the letter box the other day, for being seen..... having a child in the back that was not restrained, no road tax. Can this hold up in court, just being seen.
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Doom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭Doom


    Did she travel with no tax and an unrestrained child?


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    #3
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    juneireland wrote: »
    Can someone tell me if this is correct. My sons girlfriend received a summons in the letter box the other day, for being seen..... having a child in the back that was not restrained, no road tax. Can this hold up in court, just being seen.

    Putting the child restraint to one side. Does she have her motor tax, if no, how long is it out?

    As for being seen, not sure, but gardas word counts for a lot in court.


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    #4
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,067 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    What other proof of having an unrestrained child would you expect?
    Only way to know you have unrestrained child is "to see it".


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    #5
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    These are not the penalty points you're looking for?

    That being said, could be their word against hers.


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    #6
    onemorechance
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭onemorechance


    juneireland wrote: »
    Can someone tell me if this is correct. My sons girlfriend received a summons in the letter box the other day, for being seen..... having a child in the back that was not restrained, no road tax. Can this hold up in court, just being seen.

    If the Garda who saw her shows up in court to give evidence then yes it can hold up in court.


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    #7
    vibe666
    Registered Users Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    juneireland wrote: »
    Can someone tell me if this is correct. My sons girlfriend received a summons in the letter box the other day, for being seen..... having a child in the back that was not restrained, no road tax. Can this hold up in court, just being seen.
    I'd be less concerned with the garda or the car tax and more concerned that your son's girlfriend is the sort of person who would intentionally endanger the life of a child by having them unrestrained in the car.


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    #8
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Was she stopped at any time by Gardai, or did letter just arrive out of the blue?
    Does she have tax?
    It's not likely the Gardai would be able to notice tax unless car was at a standstill, maybe at a check point.

    But yeah, a Garda witness will most probably stand up in court. Is she intending to fight the fine but she did the crime(s).


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    #9
    ace86
    Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭ace86


    juneireland wrote: »
    Can someone tell me if this is correct. My sons girlfriend received a summons in the letter box the other day, for being seen..... having a child in the back that was not restrained, no road tax. Can this hold up in court, just being seen.

    If she had no tax at the time she will have to pay a fine regardless even if it goes to court.
    If the lady in question was seen with an un restrained child in the back seat by the a witness why didnt the gardai come after her and stop her there and then and summon her or give her penalty points on the spot after all it is there job and the interest of safety and the child. If it goes to court I can't see her being convicted because your sons girlfriend can argue the child was restrained and a witness saw something and could have been mistaken.
    I'd contact a solictor for clarity anyway.


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    #10
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Garda could have been on foot or otherwise unable to stop the car and just recorded the number plate and perhaps description of the driver. A quick check later of the database could show no tax against her plate. If someone else was driving the car at the time then the registered owner gets the notice unless they declare the true driver.
    A Garda has a special duty to uphold the law and simply seeing an offence is often ample evidence for the law.


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    #11
    Mister Man
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Mister Man


    I've heard of something similar happening to someone a few months back actually. For no NCT, rather then tax.
    Got a letter in the post about court.
    Went, said he wasn't driving it, and got away with it. He said the main reason was they never had any record of pulling him over, or that it was even him driving it when it was seen. Could go either way though.
    Tell he to cop on and restrain the child though. Just asking for trouble.


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    #12
    Supergurrier
    Registered Users Posts: 7,292 ✭✭✭Supergurrier


    Read title thinking Garda used Jedi powers.

    Left dissapointed :(


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    #13
    keithclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    Yes, he saw it happen.

    If he talked to her about it he would have wasted time to see other things happening :D


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    #14
    Mikros
    Registered Users Posts: 503 ✭✭✭Mikros


    juneireland wrote: »
    Can someone tell me if this is correct. My sons girlfriend received a summons in the letter box the other day, for being seen..... having a child in the back that was not restrained, no road tax. Can this hold up in court, just being seen.

    What exactly was the summons for? Was she stopped and spoken to by the Guard at the time? Did she receive a fixed charge notice before? Did she pay that or ignore it? There is more to the story there I'd suspect.

    To answer your question yes the Guard will give his eye witness evidence in court. It is up to the Judge to determine if it is credible but generally it will be taken as a given.

    I'd have little sympathy for someone driving with unrestrained kids in their car.


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    #15
    vibe666
    Registered Users Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    So are the garda known for sending random fines to random people for no reason? :confused:


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    #16
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    juneireland wrote: »
    Can someone tell me if this is correct. My sons girlfriend received a summons in the letter box the other day, for being seen..... having a child in the back that was not restrained, no road tax. Can this hold up in court, just being seen.

    So your sons girlfriend is looking for a defense for no tax and recklessly endangering a childlike by having them unrestrained in the rear of her car?


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    #17
    juneireland
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭juneireland


    Hi
    My point exactly, if guard saw child without restraints she should have been stopped and given a warning etc. not left to drive on. (child is always trying to climb out of baby chair, so obviously caught at the time of trying to escape. Tax only just run out, 3 weeks overdue. She was not stopped and knew nothing until summons arrived in post. Guard was able to jot down car plate, so must of been driving behind, so to look at escaping child and no road tax he had very good eye sight.


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    #18
    Mr Simpson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    juneireland wrote: »
    Hi
    My point exactly, if guard saw child without restraints she should have been stopped and given a warning etc. not left to drive on. (child is always trying to climb out of baby chair, so obviously caught at the time of trying to escape. Tax only just run out, 3 weeks overdue. She was not stopped and knew nothing until summons arrived in post. Guard was able to jot down car plate, so must of been driving behind, so to look at escaping child and no road tax he had very good eye sight.

    Or he saw the unrestrained child, and when he checked PULSE the car showed as having no tax. You dont have to see an old tax disc to find out if the car is taxed or not ;)


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    #19
    bmstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭bmstuff


    Title?
    I thought you got kicked in the teeth or something...


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    #20
    dilallio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,728 ✭✭✭dilallio


    juneireland wrote: »
    Can someone tell me if this is correct. My sons girlfriend received a summons in the letter box the other day, for being seen..... having a child in the back that was not restrained, no road tax. Can this hold up in court, just being seen.

    Tell the judge that the child crawled into the front and ate the tax-disk.
    It will be grand.


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    #21
    veetwin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,003 ✭✭✭veetwin


    juneireland wrote: »
    Hi
    My point exactly, if guard saw child without restraints she should have been stopped and given a warning etc. not left to drive on. (child is always trying to climb out of baby chair, so obviously caught at the time of trying to escape. Tax only just run out, 3 weeks overdue. She was not stopped and knew nothing until summons arrived in post. Guard was able to jot down car plate, so must of been driving behind, so to look at escaping child and no road tax he had very good eye sight.

    Maybe he or she was a guard on the beat and not in a position to stop the driver?

    If the child escapes their restraints then the driver has to stop...no excuses, no high horses, no debates. I say this as the parent of 2 children who know better at this stage. Belts on or we're going nowhere.

    Tax out by 3 weeks should be no problem in court. Obviously by now she has back taxed the car and the judge would strike out this summons.

    It's a big jump to assume that the guard was abusing their power by issuing two summons for these offences.


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    #22
    challengemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 16,930 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    Yup, it's allowed. Similarly if they form the opinion that a car is speeding, that's enough to issue a fine & points. No proof needed!


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    #23
    CiniO
    Registered Users Posts: 16,067 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    veetwin wrote: »
    If the child escapes their restraints then the driver has to stop...no excuses, no high horses, no debates.
    If driver is able to stop or not depends on road conditions.
    It's not possible to stop everywhere.
    Tax out by 3 weeks should be no problem in court. Obviously by now she has back taxed the car and the judge would strike out this summons.
    And that's the stupidity of our tax system.
    For driving untaxed should be a proper fine, not just possibility to backtax and be grand in court. That's the reason why old motortax system of declaring cars off the road retrospectively didn't work - and they change it to new system which is also not going to work.
    All what they had to do was to start issuing heavy fines for anyone found driving untaxed vehicle, and no system change would be necessery.


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    #24
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    CJC999 wrote: »
    So your sons girlfriend is looking for a defense for no tax and recklessly endangering a childlike by having them unrestrained in the rear of her car?
    Sounds like it from the posts so far and the claims that the guard should have stopped the car. Perhaps he wasn't wearing his hat?


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    #25
    delly
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,681 Mod ✭✭✭✭delly


    Was at an open day recently in my local station where they showed the CCTV system and how it could zoom in on the tax disk. No reason to say something similar couldn't have happened.


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    #26
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    get teh child to give evidence of how they hate the straps and are always put on....


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    #27
    Julio1
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Julio1


    :D:D:D
    Supergurrier wrote: »
    Read title thinking Garda used Jedi powers.

    Left dissapointed :(


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    #28
    juneireland
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭juneireland


    hi
    I'm not saying guard was abusing his power, I'm a grandmom of 10, I also have a child with autism, so I am all for restraints OBVIOUSLY. What I am saying is, if it was only for having a child that was unrestrained, is it not a case of her word against theirs, court costs etc. As for not being restrained, child was in baby seat, just able to pull off straps from shoulders, waist straps are still there. Its not only child seat belts, what will we be seen doing next


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    #29
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    juneireland wrote: »
    hi
    I'm not saying guard was abusing his power, I'm a grandmom of 10, I also have a child with autism, so I am all for restraints OBVIOUSLY. What I am saying is, if it was only for having a child that was unrestrained, is it not a case of her word against theirs, court costs etc. As for not being restrained, child was in baby seat, just able to pull off straps from shoulders, waist straps are still there.
    Child is still not properly restrained. It won't be catapulted out of the car in an impact but it could suffer horrific facial/spinal injuries and the impact to the back of the head during recoil could be fatal.
    juneireland wrote: »
    Its not only child seat belts, what will we be seen doing next
    Holding a mobile phone, texting, preening oneself in the mirror, reading, driving with both hands off the steering wheel? Seen it all, pity a Garda wasn't around to see it though.


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    #30
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    juneireland wrote: »
    What I am saying is, if it was only for having a child that was unrestrained, is it not a case of her word against theirs, court costs etc.
    You do know what a witness is, don't you?

    You can always take the case to court and accuse the Guard of lying under oath. I presume you would have some proof to offer.


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    #31
    Patrickheg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 225 ✭✭Patrickheg


    vibe666 wrote: »
    I'd be less concerned with the garda or the car tax and more concerned that your son's girlfriend is the sort of person who would intentionally endanger the life of a child by having them unrestrained in the car.

    Do you also judge your parents who most likely carried you unrestrained in their car?


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