Americans take to soccerball.

mike65

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/12/premier-league-us-nbc

After signing a deal with the Premier League in autumn 2012, paying $250m (£157m) to air matches over the next three years, viewing figures after the opening seven weeks of the campaign are up 93% compared with the same period last term.

All 380 Premier League matches are available to NBC viewers this season, across various platforms, the majority on NBC Sports Network, which was established in January 2012 and costs viewers a subscription of $0.31 (19p) a month.

Ratings are steadily growing as the season develops, with Everton's home match against Chelsea in September, broadcast across the whole NBC network, pulling in an average audience of 917,000. Highlights are shown and matches previewed on Sundays during live coverage of the NFL, something Miller describes as unprecedented, and 12 million people have tuned in – a significant increase on the 5.5m managed by ESPN and Fox Soccer this time last year

That's a typo Shirley?

As the article points out, the fact most games take place before American sport has got out of bed is a significant advantage. Granola and soccer. USA/Canada tours every other summer shall de pretty much de-rigure by most clubs.

Panthro

MLS is where it's at these days. The mighty Vancouver Whitecaps featuring the lovable Andy O Brien, Nigel Rio Coker, and who can forget..Joe Cannon and his "Ssssssssist...BOOM!" kick outs, I'm all about it me.
Init? Futball. Get In. are all phrases of a game gone by, it's all "For Sure eh?" High 5's and "That was AWESOME!"...
MLS baby, MLS.

RGM

I think it's more impressive that Seattle can sell more than 60,000 tickets to multiple games.

SlipperyPeople

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izN9Ylh7k0c

Lumbo

RGM wrote: »

I think it's more impressive that Seattle can sell more than 60,000 tickets to multiple games.

The US is among the top ten attended league in the world.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865578830/MLS-ranked-7th-best-soccer-league-in-the-world-by-Sporting-Intelligence.html

dan1895

RGM wrote: »

I think it's more impressive that Seattle can sell more than 60,000 tickets to multiple games.

From what I've heard, it's a sports mad city and the Sonics NBA team are gone a few years now.

RGM

dan1895 wrote: »

From what I've heard, it's a sports mad city and the Sonics NBA team are gone a few years now.

Both true, but not necessarily a reason for why soccer is so popular there. There are many other cities that fit that bill. I don't think basketball fans would be any more inclined to become soccer fans. If anything, I think the game of hockey is most similar out of the North American sports. Seattle doesn't have a hockey team either.

My personal theory is that it has to do with Seattle being a relative newcomer to major professional sports. Professional baseball was popular from the late 19th century, but Seattle's team was formed in the 70s. Football started in the 1920s, but again Seattle's team was formed in the 70s. Maybe popular American sports just aren't ingrained in the population like they are in other major cities.

There's also the fact that Seattle is different culturally. Consider that you could drive two circles around all of Ireland in the time it takes to drive from Seattle to New York.

Xavi6

Panthro wrote: »

MLS is where it's at these days. The mighty Vancouver Whitecaps featuring the lovable Andy O Brien, Nigel Rio Coker, and who can forget..Joe Cannon and his "Ssssssssist...BOOM!" kick outs, I'm all about it me.
Init? Futball. Get In. are all phrases of a game gone by, it's all "For Sure eh?" High 5's and "That was AWESOME!"...
MLS baby, MLS.

Glad you're embracing it. MLS is fantastic.

RGM wrote: »

Both true, but not necessarily a reason for why soccer is so popular there. There are many other cities that fit that bill. I don't think basketball fans would be any more inclined to become soccer fans. If anything, I think the game of hockey is most similar out of the North American sports. Seattle doesn't have a hockey team either.

My personal theory is that it has to do with Seattle being a relative newcomer to major professional sports. Professional baseball was popular from the late 19th century, but Seattle's team was formed in the 70s. Football started in the 1920s, but again Seattle's team was formed in the 70s. Maybe popular American sports just aren't ingrained in the population like they are in other major cities.

There's also the fact that Seattle is different culturally. Consider that you could drive two circles around all of Ireland in the time it takes to drive from Seattle to New York.

MLS have done expansion right in the Pacific north west. Seattle, Vancouver and Portland all entered the league within a short space of time and quickly built up the 'Cascadia' rivalry.

Each year the results between the three sides are tallied and the team with the most points takes out the Cascadia Cup. However, the cup is actually kept by the fans in a bar for the year and makes them feel more involved.

Of course, Americans are fiercely patriotic so MLS is simply playing on that and reaping the rewards.

Portland have sold out (I think) close to 50 home games in a row while Vancouver's average attendance is just shy of 20k.

While Seattle is fairly sports mad, and new enough to pro sports (as you say), most of their success can be put down to smart planning expansion wise imo.

RGM

Xavi6 wrote: »

While Seattle is fairly sports mad, and new enough to pro sports (as you say), most of their success can be put down to smart planning expansion wise imo.

Smart planning can explain their success, but I don't think it's enough to explain 60,000 people at a game. It's a really interesting topic.

Xavi6

RGM wrote: »

Smart planning can explain their success, but I don't think it's enough to explain 60,000 people at a game. It's a really interesting topic.

It helped create a bandwagon of sorts though with the rivalries, and all of the Cascadia teams are directly competing with each other in the Western Conference. Seattle's first home game in 2009 had 32,523 people at it and now the average is 42,000+ with the Cascadia games drawing the biggest crowds generally.

Success obviously played a part too with them making the playoffs in the first year; had they bombed it could have gone the opposite way with crowds. And then of course there's the Dempsey factor this year which has given them a handy top up.

Plenty of factors all up anyway, and credit to everyone involved in it.

mike65

Seattle is often considered, like San Francisco to be one of the least American/most European (read progressive) cities of the USA maybe that accounts for the popularity of the teams based there.

JPA

From what I understand NBC "get it", whereas FOX were hopeless. Gotta help viewing figures.

losthorizon

Of course since the NASL the US has changed quite a bit due to (1) the amount of Hispanics in the country who know and understand football hugely who want to go to games and want to watch it on TV and (2) Soccer Moms who have raised kids who are interested in the game.

Every year that goes by the US is becoming a more normal football nation.

By golly I wish this was a thread on the LOI

simongurnick

The success of Seattle is intriguing. I lived there for a while about 10 years ago and my uncle owns a pub close to the Sounders stadium which is packed out with fans before the game.
One interesting fact is the Sounders were twinned with Galway United when they were in the USL, based off the twinning of the same cities.
I think one poster touched on an important factor above...football/soccer in North America is now seen to be very hip and cool, in a similar way to British music or European fashion. Seattle has always been a trendy city so this fits together.
It is a sports mad city but in different ways to other US cities. The Mariners have been very popular over the last decade, in particular down to Ichiro, the Seahawks not as popular but you also need to factor in the NCAA. College sports are HUGE in the states and Seattle has a large student population who are used to attending games feverishly.
The location of the stadium is important too, as it is a stones throw from a load of pubs. The usual tailgating does not happen...instead it's more like us, with fans flocking to the pubs beforehand and being well juiced up for the games.
The success has helped,as well as the rivalries with Portland and Vancouver.
It's amazing to see and to be honest I think the League of Ireland could take a thing or two from the franchise system in the US.

Corholio

simongurnick wrote: »

The success of Seattle is intriguing. I lived there for a while about 10 years ago and my uncle owns a pub close to the Sounders stadium which is packed out with fans before the game.
One interesting fact is the Sounders were twinned with Galway United when they were in the USL, based off the twinning of the same cities.
I think one poster touched on an important factor above...football/soccer in North America is know seen to be very hip and cool, in a similar way to British music or European fashion. Seattle has always been a trendy city so this fits together.
It is a sports mad city but in different ways to other US cities. The Mariners have been very popular over the last decade, in particular down to Ichiro, the Seahawks not as popular but you also need to factor in the NCAA. College sports are HUGE in the states and Seattle has a large student population who are used to attending games feverishly.
The location of the stadium is important too, as it is a stones throw from a load of pubs. The usual tailgating does not happen...instead it's more like us, with fans flocking to the pubs beforehand and being well juiced up for the games.
The success has helped,as well as the rivalries with Portland and Vancouver.
It's amazing to see and to be honest I think the League of Ireland could take a thing or two from the franchise system in the US.

Matbe learn a few things, but the different in circumstances is gargantuan. Completely different factors on both sides, culturally, financially and geographically.

Its too easy to pick out a supposedly successful league and say a less successful league should copy that.

On a different point, I find the standard still not all that great in the MLS.
Actually I think it's still quite poor, no matter how many last big cheque players they have signed.

simongurnick

Corholio wrote: »

Matbe learn a few things, but the different in circumstances is gargantuan. Completely different factors on both sides, culturally, financially and geographically.

Its too easy to pick out a supposedly successful league and say a less successful league should copy that.

On a different point, I find the standard still not all that great in the MLS.
Actually I think it's still quite poor, no matter how many last big cheque players they have signed.

I'm not advocating looking at a successful league and then copying it, but what is interesting from an LOI perspective is that the MLS is run completely differently from most other leagues in the world. The LOI is trying to run itself on a traditional model, which for various reasons has not worked.
I think when you look at it, some of the circumstances are similar. In both countries soccer has to compete with other major sports, they both have massive activity levels at youth and amatuer levels which does not correspond to success on a domestic professional level.
Also, I think some of the more exciting players are the local players and not the "designated players". They have mainly been show players to sell some tickets and many have made shag all difference on the pitch.

losthorizon

You have to remember that American sport is actually run on quite a socialist level ironically despite the massive amounts of money (ie drafts, teams doing worst getting first pick etc, spending caps on players).

A lot of these things cannot be done in the LOI because they would be illegal under European law.

simongurnick

losthorizon wrote: »

You have to remember that American sport is actually run on quite a socialist level ironically despite the massive amounts of money (ie drafts, teams doing worst getting first pick etc, spending caps on players).

A lot of these things cannot be done in the LOI because they would be illegal under European law.

A draft wouldn't work because there is nowhere to draft players from right now, although if we had a central academy for young players they could come from that.
I just think the franchise system could make sense. Purist might shoot me for this, but have a load of teams in Dublin doesn't work...two teams in Galway doesn't work etc.

losthorizon

simongurnick wrote: »

A draft wouldn't work because there is nowhere to draft players from right now, although if we had a central academy for young players they could come from that.
I just think the franchise system could make sense. Purist might shoot me for this, but have a load of teams in Dublin doesn't work...two teams in Galway doesn't work etc.

I'm not from Dublin from Cork so I'm hardly Dublin Friendly but Irelands Population is one third in the Dublin region so clubs should reflect this. An academy system is a good idea - UCD though already have something like this in place.

No expert but maybe other UNis do as well maybe something more formal could be put in place.


The good thing about UCD is that if a player does not make it he has a very good education and is set up for life (hopefully).

simongurnick

losthorizon wrote: »

I'm not from Dublin from Cork so I'm hardly Dublin Friendly but Irelands Population is one third in the Dublin region so clubs should relect this. An academy system is a good idea - UCD though already have something like this in place.

No expert but maybe other UNis do as well maybe something more formal could be put in place.


The good thing about UCD is that if a player does not make it he has a very good education and is set up for life (hopefully).

Jesus, a Cork man sticking up for Dublin! I've seen it all now.

But, yes I would agree with your point. I just compare to Seattle though. I think the population is about 100k more than Dublin, but they are landing 40 to 60k at their matches.

An academy connected to the Uni's could work for sure. Like you said, lads would still have an education if the footie didn't work out. Education is a foundation to the Ajax academy.

themont85

mike65 wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/12/premier-league-us-nbc



That's a typo Shirley?

Not a typo no. ESPN get close to 6 dollars per subscriber per month.

The difference in the US is there isn't really "premium" sports packages like here. Mostly, things are bundled together. So non sports fans who wouldn't subscribe get it anyway, and pay for it.

Its available in nearly 80 million homes so that's about a revenue of $25 million per month before ads for them.

themont85

simongurnick wrote: »

A draft wouldn't work because there is nowhere to draft players from right now, although if we had a central academy for young players they could come from that.
I just think the franchise system could make sense. Purist might shoot me for this, but have a load of teams in Dublin doesn't work...two teams in Galway doesn't work etc.

Can't believe you haven't been swarmed by the LOI zealots for this yet.

"Sporting Fingal"

IvySlayer

I always try to follow Americans sports but I never will understand how drafts work.

There's always so much emphasis on All-Stars too.

I do watch some matches on ESPN though, usually good viewing

Corholio

themont85 wrote: »

Can't believe you haven't been swarmed by the LOI zealots for this yet.

"Sporting Fingal"

Zealots?:rolleyes:

Simple really, it would never work. Irony really that you joyfully mentioned Sporting Fingal because it wouldn't work for the opposite reason, teams have histories and more to them than just moving around clubs like Lego pieces.

"ignorance"

themont85

I've "debated" this many times over the years on this section and I really couldn't be bothered engaging much more with some of the LOI types who screech at any posts which don't fit their world view.

There was a thread about a Dublin team in the English leagues, a sort of franchise/club, could it work (pre supposed that UEFA/FIFA could ever allow such a thing)? Examples gleefully brought up included the aforementioned SF as some sort of proof that franchises couldn't work.

LOI fans opinion generally go down the lines off.

The League isn't successful because;

- poor marketing
- poor media coverage
- barstoolers

I see there's already another thread on this page about how to get more bums on seats (#6775 of that type of thread since soccer forums started), I don't really want to clog this up.

Xavi6

themont85 wrote: »

I've "debated" this many times over the years on this section and I really couldn't be bothered engaging much more with some of the LOI types who screech at any posts which don't fit their world view.

There was a thread about a Dublin team in the English leagues, a sort of franchise/club, could it work (pre supposed that UEFA/FIFA could ever allow such a thing)? Examples gleefully brought up included the aforementioned SF as some sort of proof that franchises couldn't work.

LOI fans opinion generally go down the lines off.

The League isn't successful because;

- poor marketing
- poor media coverage
- barstoolers

I see there's already another thread on this page about how to get more bums on seats (#6775 of that type of thread since soccer forums started), I don't really want to clog this up.

The "LOI types" are 100% correct though when it comes to franchises in their simplest form (create a team, dump it an area, expect people to support it). Sporting Fingal is a legitimate case for the prosecution so I don't get why you're being dismissive of it

The issue of clubs being replaced by franchises would alienate fans who have had their club in their family for generations. Would they be replaced in the same volume by new fans? Absolutely not imo.

However, if some sort of franchise system was to be brought in, maybe it could be done with the current clubs becoming the franchises. If you take the Portland Timbers as an example, they're now an MLS franchise yet their history is untouched and goes back to the NSL days in 1975. Fans didn't have their team replaced by a new one, they didn't lose their identity, and they still got to be part of the big time.

If Bohemian F.C. was still Bohemian F.C. yet was run by the league and regulated in the way the MLS franchises are it could work. The clubs might have a lot more stability, the fans would still have their club, and we wouldn't have the guaranteed asterisk on the league table every year for one reason or another.

I'm sure there's some Uefa rules against it that I can't be bothered looking up, but if a franchise system was to work it would have to include the current clubs and not replace them (i.e. none of that provinces nonsense).

Corholio

themont85 wrote: »

I've "debated" this many times over the years on this section and I really couldn't be bothered engaging much more with some of the LOI types who screech at any posts which don't fit their world view.

There was a thread about a Dublin team in the English leagues, a sort of franchise/club, could it work (pre supposed that UEFA/FIFA could ever allow such a thing)? Examples gleefully brought up included the aforementioned SF as some sort of proof that franchises couldn't work.

LOI fans opinion generally go down the lines off.

The League isn't successful because;

- poor marketing
- poor media coverage
- barstoolers

I see there's already another thread on this page about how to get more bums on seats (#6775 of that type of thread since soccer forums started), I don't really want to clog this up.

I don't really get the point of your post, besides your labelling of LOI fans. Are you saying that reasons for the league not being successful are nothing to do with marketing, media coverage or barstoolers?

On the franchise point, Xavi is spot on about it not being viable to just replace clubs with franchises. It may work in bigger countries with different circumstances, but I genuinely don't believe it would ever work here. I think some people who don't follow LOI teams struggle to grasp this, but surely if you follow any football team you can understand why it might not be a good idea.

simongurnick

Xavi6 wrote: »

The "LOI types" are 100% correct though when it comes to franchises in their simplest form (create a team, dump it an area, expect people to support it). Sporting Fingal is a legitimate case for the prosecution so I don't get why you're being dismissive of it

The issue of clubs being replaced by franchises would alienate fans who have had their club in their family for generations. Would they be replaced in the same volume by new fans? Absolutely not imo.

However, if some sort of franchise system was to be brought in, maybe it could be done with the current clubs becoming the franchises. If you take the Portland Timbers as an example, they're now an MLS franchise yet their history is untouched and goes back to the NSL days in 1975. Fans didn't have their team replaced by a new one, they didn't lose their identity, and they still got to be part of the big time.

If Bohemian F.C. was still Bohemian F.C. yet was run by the league and regulated in the way the MLS franchises are it could work. The clubs might have a lot more stability, the fans would still have their club, and we wouldn't have the guaranteed asterisk on the league table every year for one reason or another.

I'm sure there's some Uefa rules against it that I can't be bothered looking up, but if a franchise system was to work it would have to include the current clubs and not replace them (i.e. none of that provinces nonsense).

I'd agree with some of this.
Couple of thoughts though: Sporting Fingal failed because it was thrown into an already saturated market. Modern professional football has to be run like a business and no business will open two shops on the same street corner.
I think you are spot on that they would have to originate from the current clubs but there would have to be some give and take. From a business/market share perspective there are too many teams in Dublin. Some would have to amalgamate to be viable. The FAI are currently trying to implement this in Galway. A combination of Mervue, Salthill and Galway United should become Galway FC. Mervue and Salthill would remain as junior clubs and be feeders to the pro teams. Differing views from fans on all sides but at the end of the day,one Galway team makes sense.

SherlockWatson

All 380 Premier League matches are available to NBC viewers this season, across various platforms, the majority on NBC Sports Network, which was established in January 2012 and costs viewers a subscription of $0.31 (19p) a month.

That's crazy cheap.

themont85

Xavi6 wrote: »

The "LOI types" are 100% correct though when it comes to franchises in their simplest form (create a team, dump it an area, expect people to support it). Sporting Fingal is a legitimate case for the prosecution so I don't get why you're being dismissive of it :confused

Because it had nothing to do with the concept of a Dublin franchise in the English league system. Examples of "Sporting Fingals lol" were brought up as if they had any relevance to the discussion. Other "lol" moments were them thinking it was hilarious to talk about "synergy" ect. Sport is a business. The clubs they support are businesses, if they were flooded with cash tomorrow the same alienation that some English club fans feel towards their club would reoccur here. All they are supporting are clubs who just aren't financially successful clubs, so they feel more "apart" of it.

My personal opinion is that the LOI can stay but shouldn't pay the players. Expenses fine but nothing besides that. Now that is more of a club model. Money gained can be spent on youth football.

themont85

SherlockWatson wrote: »

That's crazy cheap.

As I said that isn't the price people pay. 80 million cable owners pay that, that's the equivalent of people here with UPC or Sky who don't take Sky Sports.

themont85

Corholio wrote: »

I don't really get the point of your post, besides your labelling of LOI fans. Are you saying that reasons for the league not being successful are nothing to do with marketing, media coverage or barstoolers?

On the franchise point, Xavi is spot on about it not being viable to just replace clubs with franchises. It may work in bigger countries with different circumstances, but I genuinely don't believe it would ever work here. I think some people who don't follow LOI teams struggle to grasp this, but surely if you follow any football team you can understand why it might not be a good idea.

Firstly I don't believe the "standard" has much to do with it. Standard is an overused word by LOI detractors. The reason is competitiveness here as against English clubs. English clubs took the best Irish players for years and were competitive in Europe. Whilst the number of Irish players has declined at the top English clubs there is an embedded fanbase going back generations now for many clubs. The gap in competitiveness grows wider and wider. Many people just like to see Irish people compete on a bigger stage and that's what happened for years through another medium, well it is no surprise people still look at that one.

The LOI is in a limited market place. One thing LOI zealots always said to me on here when I mention the Europe point was "we already have teams in Europe, support them". But pigs will fly before they become competitive given the the financial imbalance within European football. UEFA allow major football markets, who just so happen to be in smaller jurisdictions, to go and swing.

So in a way "barstoolers" does come into it. I wouldn't say though that all of those have no football knowledge which is an implication of that statement, neither would I think its fair to say all LOI are football experts. There are plenty who go to LOI grounds who know very little about the nuts and bolts of the game and, like any other football club in Europe, enjoy the tribal aspect of it. Neither are a bad thing. Both are just inevitable, you are not going to change human behaviour.

Local rivalries in this country have been fostered by the GAA through intercounty and club games. That is something other countries do not have to compete with. That is the second major reason. Bohs have a long and proud history of representing an area...but they are competing with dozens of GAA clubs nearby for that crown as well.

dfx-

Please take the LOI stuff to the numerous threads on improving or amending the LOI.

Panthro

Miller scores a retaken penalty for The Caps.
'mon the Caps.