Visa debit

Vego

Quick question ....

I went to get a bit of petrol for the lawnmower today at the nearest garage got 5 euro worth and went to pay with the card and the counter assistant says she has to charge me 20 cent ontop of the 5 euro as no purchases are to be under 10 euro and I can go out and fill up another 5 euro (no sign outside saying minimum spend) and I didnt see one inside either ....Is that legal ?

Zhane

Vego wrote: »

Quick question ....

I went to get a bit of petrol for the lawnmower today at the nearest garage got 5 euro worth and went to pay with the card and the counter assistant says she has to charge me 20 cent ontop of the 5 euro as no purchases are to be under 10 euro and I can go out and fill up another 5 euro (no sign outside saying minimum spend) and I didnt see one inside either ....Is that legal ?

Yes.

allthedoyles

So did you pay €10 after and 20c fee ?

Vego

I paid the 5 with the 20c as i had the petrol already in the can ...and kindly said to the person thats a bit of a f**king joke I wont be back ...just asking a question about a shop charging the extra as I have never experienced it in say costa coffee

allthedoyles

Its often raised in consumer issues , and annoys me too.

Its bank fee related , but we all have to pay them

sandin

profit from sale of 3 litres = about 12c

cost of a visa debit card transaction is from about 14c to 25c depending on your volume.

A retailer that sells at a loss will not last long, so unfortunately on something like this or other tiny marging products like cigarettes, a retailer will try and avoid cards for small valeus.

The new contactless system that is starting to appear has a cost of less than 5c - but less benefits such as no insurance (not needed anyway for small purchases)

Vego

When you have the machine installed surely you should factor in ...into the years projections a rough cost per year of having the machine ...as starbucks/costa homebase tesco all do and I have never herd in any of these establishments if you going to buy just a coffee the advertised price of say 3.20 is now 3.30 because you are using your card or you will have to buy two to get no transaction fee ?

If you have the machine and in business you should take the rough with the smooth..all im really peeved about is the change in price as I used my card

whippet

Vego wrote: »

If you have the machine and in business you should take the rough with the smooth..all im really peeved about is the change in price as I used my card

it's not the 'rough with the smooth' as you put it. Its simple maths; why would any retailer transact business at a loss?

The margins on a cup of coffee at €3+ is many multiples of the margin on €5 worth of petrol. If you want the convenience of paying with plastic it will cost you more.

emeldc

Equally the retailer might ask, 'can you not just carry a few quid in cash'?

Vego

The banks want me to carry less cash ...why have a card ....why have a machine to accept the card ..yes business sometimes do have to take the hit .. your not reading my point... anyway the consumer also has to pay a fee to use the card

That petrol station would get a good bit of trade of me been the nearest to me and now thats gone and I said it to them so they lose out again

28064212

Vego wrote: »

The banks want me to carry less cash...

They might claim it sometimes, but it's blatantly not true. Both AIB and BOI have per-transaction charges on their cards. Lets say I'm buying 20 items for €10 each:

• Using cash: 1 withdrawal of €200, 1 charge of 20c
• Using card for each transaction: 20 separate charges of 20c

It costs me €3.80 more to use my card. Until this is changed, the banks are talking nonsense about wanting a less cash-based market

ScouseMouse

Its listening to the banks that got us into this crap.

I had a guy tell me he hopes I close when I had this very issue.

I cannot work for nothing and if that means turning away cards where it is not financially viable, so be it.

Grumpypants

Vego wrote: »

When you have the machine installed surely you should factor in ...into the years projections a rough cost per year of having the machine ...as starbucks/costa homebase tesco all do and I have never herd in any of these establishments if you going to buy just a coffee the advertised price of say 3.20 is now 3.30 because you are using your card or you will have to buy two to get no transaction fee ?



If you have the machine and in business you should take the rough with the smooth..all im really peeved about is the change in price as I used my card

A coffee has got a profit margin that can absorb the fee, a small local petrol station doesn't.

To you it's just 20cent but if it happens 100 times a day it starts hitting the store hard.

Vego

Its not just 20 cent to me every penny counts in my house look the essential point was there were no signs to warn me I had no cash I had the petrol in the petrol can. I went to buy 5 euro if petrol and it cost ne 5:20 ..they should have signs at the pump on the road etc they didnt I dont go to a restaurant and buy a meal for say 24 euro to be told its actually going to cost me 27 as im using a card..

Cabaal

Vego wrote: »

When you have the machine installed surely you should factor in ...into the years projections a rough cost per year of having the machine ...as starbucks/costa homebase tesco all do and I have never herd in any of these establishments if you going to buy just a coffee the advertised price of say 3.20 is now 3.30 because you are using your card or you will have to buy two to get no transaction fee ?

If you have the machine and in business you should take the rough with the smooth..all im really peeved about is the change in price as I used my card

You could factor in the cost,

But then doing this would mean increase overall costs which would affect cash buying customers,

One has to ask, why should cash buying customer's pay for people that want to use debit and credit cards...they shouldn't,

So if you pay via a card and its under a certain amount then you pay for that service, if you don't want to pay that fee then pay using cash.

another question

I think the point is, is that the shop should have had a sign up. There's a shop in Sligo that do this too with no sign and it's really rather irritating.

Prices are meant to be clear for every product and service, however small, something shouldn't be more at the till without warning. Like even the banks give advance notice to their customers about charges relating to use of cards etc in the form of a letter, why should shops be any different.

I've seen signs in small family run stores where there is a sign to the effect of 'no card transactions under €10 etc' fair enough, at least it's advance notice and it's not 'oh by the way that will cost you an extra €0.20 when it's too late to change your mind'.

Cabaal

Vego wrote: »

Its not just 20 cent to me every penny counts in my house look the essential point was there were no signs to warn me I had no cash I had the petrol in the petrol can. I went to buy 5 euro if petrol and it cost ne 5:20 ..they should have signs at the pump on the road etc they didnt I dont go to a restaurant and buy a meal for say 24 euro to be told its actually going to cost me 27 as im using a card..

If every cent count then why pay for services in the way that you are doing?

To get best use out of your bank charges you should be withdrawing a large amount of cash and budgeting with that, instead of getting bank transaction charges for each little transaction such as paying with debit cards etc.

Its unreasonable to expect them to have signs at the pumps for every little thing, if they did they'd practically have to have a notice board up.

You could also argue, that as you had no cash you first should have gone inside to see will they accept a debit/credit card for such a small amount and if so will they charge you an additional fee.

Nonoperational

It's legal and it's 20cent. It's tiny. You'd need 15 fills of petrol to equal one Costa coffee. It's slightly annoying, but that's about it.

Vego

Cabaal wrote: »

If every cent count then why pay for services in the way that you are doing?

To get best use out of your bank charges you should be withdrawing a large amount of cash and budgeting with that, instead of getting bank transaction charges for each little transaction such as paying with debit cards etc.

Its unreasonable to expect them to have signs at the pumps for every little thing, if they did they'd practically have to have a notice board up.

You could also argue, that as you had no cash you first should have gone inside to see will they accept a debit/credit card for such a small amount and if so will they charge you an additional fee.

Wow just wow so i have to take out large sums of cash.

they have a machine I have a card no signs saying a surcharge until im told there is one after I have filled the can .... my fault again there

they should have a clear pricing structure displayed at the pump including any possible surcharge

Also im not at all bothered on my side with bank charges as I budget them in its the added expense of paying for others when I didn't expect to

Vego

Nonoperational wrote: »

It's legal and it's 20cent. It's tiny. You'd need 15 fills of petrol to equal one Costa coffee. It's slightly annoying, but that's about it.

Thanks for the answer that's what I was after done and dusted !!!

Iconcurr

It will be interesting to see if this makes is way to the consumer

A proposal for regulation on interchange fees for card-based payment transactions

Vice President Joaquín Almunia added: "The interchange fees paid by retailers end up on consumers' bills. Not only are consumers generally unaware of this, they are even encouraged through reward systems to use the cards that provide their banks with the highest revenues. Complementing the enforcement of antitrust rules, the regulation capping interchange fees will prevent excessive levels of these fees across the board. A level playing field will be created for payment services providers, new players will be able to enter the market and offer innovative services, retailers will make big savings by paying lower fees to their banks, and consumers will benefit through lower retail prices."

MagicMarker

28064212 wrote: »

They might claim it sometimes, but it's blatantly not true. Both AIB and BOI have per-transaction charges on their cards. Lets say I'm buying 20 items for €10 each:

• Using cash: 1 withdrawal of €200, 1 charge of 20c
• Using card for each transaction: 20 separate charges of 20c

It costs me €3.80 more to use my card. Until this is changed, the banks are talking nonsense about wanting a less cash-based market

Eh? Did you read your own post? They want a less cash-based market exactly because they make more from you using a card.

keithclancy

Vego wrote: »

Wow just wow so i have to take out large sums of cash.

they have a machine I have a card no signs saying a surcharge until im told there is one after I have filled the can .... my fault again there

they should have a clear pricing structure displayed at the pump including any possible surcharge

Also im not at all bothered on my side with bank charges as I budget them in its the added expense of paying for others when I didn't expect to

I always carry some cash, otherwise its just awkward.

What if it doesn't work or the machine is down etc.

28064212

MagicMarker wrote: »

Eh? Did you read your own post? They want a less cash-based market exactly because they make more from you using a card.

If they want a less cash-based market, why are they specifically discouraging people from using their cards by charging more? The government don't put the price of cigarettes up to encourage smoking

mathepac

keithclancy wrote: »

... What if it doesn't work or the machine is down etc.

If the technology fails then I'd be more than willing to hand back the goods, but what if I'd filled 50 or 60 quids worth of diesel rather than a fiver's worth of petrol?

Nody

28064212 wrote: »

If they want a less cash-based market, why are they specifically discouraging people from using their cards by charging more? The government don't put the price of cigarettes up to encourage smoking

Because it's a bloody gold mine of free profits for them (same as SMS was for telephone companies 10 years ago or mobile data in foreign countries is for the local mobile phone company charging silly high costs); why do you think all European banks were fighting tooth and nail to prent EU from putting in a law to stop them from charging for it? The banks stands to lose billions if those fees goes away, billions of profit they want to prop up the rest of the bussiness with.

28064212

Nody wrote: »

Because it's a bloody gold mine of free profits for them (same as SMS was for telephone companies 10 years ago); why do you think all European banks were fighting tooth and nail to prent EU from putting in a law to stop them from charging for it? The banks stands to lose billions if those fees goes away, billions of profit they want to prop up the rest of the bussiness with.

I'm not arguing with that point, I don't believe they do want fees to go away.

I'm arguing with the notion that banks are trying to move away from a cash-based system, when if fact they are actively discouraging it

Nody

28064212 wrote: »

I'm arguing with the notion that banks are trying to move away from a cash-based system, when if fact they are actively discouraging it

They are trying to move away from it because they can charge more for it but try to sell it in as "better for you". For example they'll point out that if you lose your wallet and you have 100 EUR cash it's lost but if you have your card with 100 EUR on it you can block your card and not lose it (same argument was used about travel cheques a decade or two earlier by they did not mention the crappier exchange rate and the 3 to 5% charge by the banks issuing and cashing them in as a downsides to you).

It's simply selling in a premium service as the "new normal" that everyone should do and taking steps to make it more difficult to use cash (remove possibility to take out/deposit cash at banks, charging higher ATM fees or simply removing ATM machines etc.) as a way to push you to the new state even though it will cost you more long term (but it's safer so sure, pay up like a good customer and don't bother us any more as we charge you more using less people to service you with our 24/7 automated systems; we're busy doing real work here speculating after all).

After all how many people do you know who've said oh gee, I wish I had another plastic card with pin to pay monthly fees for? Yet that's what banks push you to no matter what you want "because it's needed for the safety of society" (also known as we can make more profit giving you less service and focus on selling you other stuff instead) and as no company tries to counter them (why would you? Roll with the flow for more profits) they'll continue making cash more difficult for you to access and use (governments also like it as it makes it easier to track how money is spent where and by whom and to follow up frauds etc. years later).

Cabaal

28064212 wrote: »

I'm not arguing with that point, I don't believe they do want fees to go away.

I'm arguing with the notion that banks are trying to move away from a cash-based system, when if fact they are actively discouraging it

Banks have been pushing for a cashless society since the 1980's,

Yes they have fee's, but they know they can make more money in a cashless society. They ideally want people to use debit and more so credit cards for everything.

Its no secret

chargerman

Vego wrote: »

That petrol station would get a good bit of trade of me been the nearest to me and now thats gone and I said it to them so they lose out again

I'm not being smart but if they didn't charge you the €0.20, they would be better off without your custom as in your transaction alone, they would have made a loss. I worked for a convienience store, these stores are struggling to survive big time. It is necessary for the charges,
BUT I do agree and see your point, there should be a sign on the door or somewhere to say about the 20cent charge.

Fred Swanson

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