Budget Day - The Official After Hours Thread - (Ireland's undisputed Voice of Reason)

tayto lover

awec wrote: »

I'm sick of hearing this "most vulnerable" crap too.

As if upon retire you suddenly become vulnerable and haven't got a penny to your name.

Emotive nonsense. This is taking free healthcare off of people who can afford to pay for it so that we can continue to provide it to those who actually need it and who are actually vulnerable.

"This has been a party political broadcast on behalf of the Fine Gael party"

Well it sounds like it.

tayto lover

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Pensioners have had it very easy these last 4 years in comparison to the rest of the population

These measures are hardly crippling too

Death by 1,000 cuts.

wolfpawnat

AdamD wrote: »

I think your opinion on what these people should pay is going to be vastly different to mine. I don't think they should have to prop up social welfare for dozens of people because they've made a success of themselves.

Not even sure Bono lives here enough to pay tax here but we can swap him for any other high earner.

The way I see it, should you have a few extra bob for working hard to get to the top of your field, of course, it promotes a good work ethic, HOWEVER we should review it in the grand scheme of things. USC, though the government receive more from higher income people, it will eat all those who pay it equally in that they all suffer a blow in proportion to their take home pay.

The poor have been hit with the loss of the bereavement benefit, increase in medicine costs, how much income you can have before you qualify for a medical card, etc. Name half the cuts that those on higher incomes have suffered, very few, as that would affect the government themselves and no TD would ever agree to hurting themselves, regardless of their party.

Of course those who have contributed more should have a little extra in hard times, for no other reason than they tend to have higher outgoings because of their previously higher income. But they are not above anyone else in anyway but in income.

Foxtrol wrote: »

The irony being the tax relief for this was cut drastically today.

If you can afford the top of the range healthcare (as Noonan and them can) the last thing you can be accused of being is on the breadline.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

tayto lover wrote: »

"This has been a party political broadcast on behalf of the Fine Gael party"

Well it sounds like it.

tayto lover wrote: »

Death by 1,000 cuts.

Do you really think anyone will take your opinion serious is all you can come out with is soundbytes like this?

btw, you stole the "death by 1,000 cuts" bit from Radio 1 this morning

boss_dog

tayto lover wrote: »

"This has been a party political broadcast on behalf of the Fine Gael party"

Well it sounds like it.

that's some arsenal of cheap shots you have there

tayto lover

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Do you really think anyone will take your opinion serious is all you can come out with is soundbytes like this?

btw, you stole the "death by 1,000 cuts" bit from Radio 1 this morning

It is a well know phrase actually.

http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/slow-slicing-photos-female-criminal-late-qing-dynasty.html

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

tayto lover wrote: »

It is a well know phrase actually.

http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/slow-slicing-photos-female-criminal-late-qing-dynasty.html

Obviously, but you're only applying it to this budget because you heard it on the radio this morning

of course now you'll say you thought of it all on your own

tayto lover

boss_dog wrote: »

you may wake up every day asking yourself how can I pay endless tribute to the elderly for the alledged legendary feats they performed back in the day but the rest of us are less in awe and see little ground for unconditional protection from this resscesion

as for the 58% tax argument , many thirty somethings are paying close to that nowadays , lets see whether they can demand sacred cow status when they reach pension age based on a past excessively high tax burden

Thanks for that.
The point is they should have the peace of mind due to them for their sacrifices over many years.

kellyj77

Does anyone know if the single parent tax bands will be affected as well as the loss of the tax credit?

tayto lover

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Obviously, but you're only applying it to this budget because you heard it on the radio this morning

of course now you'll say you thought of it all on your own

No someone beat me to it many years ago BUT that's the English language for you.

RiverOfLove

Save for your funural and you'll be taxed DIRT on it.

Ace2007

Charlie Rock wrote: »

So a pensioned couple on over €900 per week, with no mortgage and no children, should be entitled to a medical card while young families struggle?

What you mean is you're okay with putting your hand in the pocket of people who're struggling and giving it to people who're not.

So where are this couple getting the 900 from?
A Pension? dare I say a pension that now has a pension levy attached to it (the pension levy when brought in that was only for 4 years, but now has been extended) or did you care to forget about that tax?

Foxtrol

tayto lover wrote: »

Death by 1,000 cuts.

Hilarious use of ‘death by 1,000 cuts’ seeing as the pensioners have received a small fraction of the number of cuts compared to those taken by every other group in Irish society during the recession.

wolfpawnat

Ace2007 wrote: »

So where are this couple getting the 900 from?
A Pension? dare I say a pension that now has a pension levy attached to it (the pension levy when brought in that was only for 4 years, but now has been extended) or did you care to forget about that tax?

The government. The rates that were laid out by Noonan today state the income for one person is up to €500 a week, while with couples it is €900. Without anything else being specified, people can only assume it is the same for pensioners as it is for everyone else.

Foxtrol

Ace2007 wrote: »

So where are this couple getting the 900 from?
A Pension? dare I say a pension that now has a pension levy attached to it (the pension levy when brought in that was only for 4 years, but now has been extended) or did you care to forget about that tax?

If they dont have a pension of 900 or more they get to keep their medical card so there's no 'will someone think of the pensioners' issue to fake outrage about.

Foxtrol

RiverOfLove wrote: »

Save for your funural and you'll be taxed DIRT on it.

Your interest will be taxed, not your savings. This is something that the economy needs, people have gone from one extreme to the other when it comes to spending and it’s better for the economy/job creation point of view if those people who are lucky enough to have disposable income start spending more of it rather than saving it.

tayto lover

Foxtrol wrote: »

Hilarious use of ‘death by 1,000 cuts’ seeing as the pensioners have received a small fraction of the number of cuts compared to those taken by every other group in Irish society during this recession.

Reduction in fuel allowance.
Telephone allowance scrapped.
Funeral grant scrapped.
Property Tax.
Water tax soon.


Just off the top of my head. There were others in previous budgets too I believe. Must look them up.

Ace2007

Foxtrol wrote: »

If they dont have a pension of 900 or more they get to keep their medical card so there's no 'will someone think of the pensioners' issue to fake outrage about.

by the same logic families who earn over 100K a year shouldn't get free GP Care for children under 5, but has anyone said that yet?

Also what if the pensioners do have a mortgage? Do we treat them differently?

tayto lover

Ace2007 wrote: »

by the same logic families who earn over 100K a year shouldn't get free GP Care for children under 5, but has anyone said that yet?

No. That rocks the boat. Stop that kind of talk.

irishfeen

To be honest it seems a very fair budget, I know its hard on older people but the fact is that under FF money/grants were thrown at them for votes... that was unsustainable and we all must take pain.

TheGoldenAges

tayto lover wrote: »

Reduction in fuel allowance.
Telephone allowance scrapped.
Funeral grant scrapped.
Property Tax.
Water tax soon.


Just off the top of my head. There were others in previous budgets too I believe. Must look them up.

But why do they need these allowances? Where is their pension fund that most of us working right now are paying into?

wolfpawnat

irishfeen wrote: »

To be honest it seems a very fair budget, I know its hard on older people but the fact is that under FF money/grants were thrown at them for votes... that was unsustainable and we all must take pain.

Some deserve more pain than others, like ever fécker in Leinster House, seriously, I only saw the RTE 1 coverage, what have the cut from their pay? All they seem to be affected by is the drink charges and no tax credits for their health insurance.

Foxtrol

Ace2007 wrote: »

by the same logic families who earn over 100K a year shouldn't get free GP Care for children under 5, but has anyone said that yet?

Yes, and if you'd brought up that point rather than outrage about rich pensioners having their medical cards taken away from them (though not their free GP cards AFAIK) I'd have agreed with you.

We’re simply not in a financial position to give Universal anything at the minute. Absolute pandering to the electorate.

wolfpawnat

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

But why do they need these allowances? Where is their pension fund that most of us working right now are paying into?

Most of it was raided. Seriously though, fuel is soaring these days, no one under 500 a week can say they are not worried about heating the house this winter.

tayto lover

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

But why do they need these allowances? Where is their pension fund that most of us working right now are paying into?

Not everyone was earning enough to pay into a pension fund.
Those who did deserve their benefits.

irishfeen

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Some deserve more pain than others, like ever fécker in Leinster House, seriously, I only saw the RTE 1 coverage, what have the cut from their pay? All they seem to be affected by is the drink charges and no tax credits for their health insurance.

Of course you are right but overall I think its a fair budget and for the first time there seems to be a real intention to help people get back to work.

Ace2007

Foxtrol wrote: »

Yes, and if you'd brought up that point rather than outrage about rich pensioners having their medical cards taken away from them (though not their free GP cards AFAIK) I'd have agreed with you.

We’re simply not in a financial position to give Universal anything at the minute. Absolute pandering to the electorate.

Define a rich pensioner?

irishfeen

Ace2007 wrote: »

Define a rich pensioner?

Retired public servants who retired with massive pensions?

JustAddWater

RiverOfLove wrote: »

Save for your funural and you'll be taxed DIRT on it.

When I die, it'll be fun alright

spank_inferno

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Most of it was raided.

do you have proof?

Have there been confiscations in the past where MOST of an existing pensioners retirement fund was taken?

Or have you the foggiest what you are on about?