Budget Day - The Official After Hours Thread - (Ireland's undisputed Voice of Reason)

Ace2007

irishfeen wrote: »

Retired public servants who retired with massive pensions?

so everyone who takes in over 500 a week in a pension?
Is it only public servants?

tayto lover

irishfeen wrote: »

Retired public servants who retired with massive pensions?

Define massive?

Foxtrol

tayto lover wrote: »

Reduction in fuel allowance.
Telephone allowance scrapped.
Funeral grant scrapped.
Property Tax.
Water tax soon.

Just off the top of my head. There were others in previous budgets too I believe. Must look them up.

I don’t see 1,000 cuts there. I see cuts to two allowances that affect them, one that effects their family and two charges that affect practically the entire population.

Any cut to their core pension? How much worse are they now since before the boom (I’ll give you a hint – they’re still doing much better)

irishfeen

tayto lover wrote: »

Define massive?

Some recently retired teachers are coming out with about €500 p/w... that's a massive pension.

tayto lover

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don’t see 1,000 cuts there. I see cuts to two allowances that affect them, one that effects their family and two charges that affect practically the entire population.

Any cut to their core pension? How much worse are they now since before the boom (I’ll give you a hint – they’re still doing much better)

Don't worry Fine Gael will get there in time :rolleyes:

irishfeen

Ace2007 wrote: »

so everyone who takes in over 500 a week in a pension?
Is it only public servants?

No and I didn't say that, was only giving an example.

tayto lover

irishfeen wrote: »

Some recently retired teachers are coming out with about €500 p/w... that's a massive pension.

I wonder if they paid into a pension fund?
If I paid into one I believe i'd deserve to have it when I retired.
I wonder how much it cost them.

Some politicians who were there during the wee bit of trouble we had came out with really massive pensions and up to 150 k in a lump sum.

Ace2007

irishfeen wrote: »

Some recently retired teachers are coming out with about €500 p/w... that's a massive pension.

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Most of it was raided. Seriously though, fuel is soaring these days, no one under 500 a week can say they are not worried about heating the house this winter.

What's massive in one person's eyes may not be in another..

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

tayto lover wrote: »

Don't worry Fine Gael will get there in time :rolleyes:

More exaggeration when faced with facts that discount your opinion

Foxtrol

Ace2007 wrote: »

Define a rich pensioner?

I'd class a pensioner getting 500 a week as rich/wealthy/well-off/not deserving of a free medical card subsidised by some workers making less than them a week.

wolfpawnat

spank_inferno wrote: »

do you have proof?

Have there been confiscations in the past where MOST of an existing pensioners retirement fund was taken?

Or have you the foggiest what you are on about?

According to the government. When SF suggested using some of it, the government stated it was all but gone.

If ir wasn't before, it is today anyway.
http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/pensions/coalitions-6bn-gamble-with-pension-fund-29343703.html

tayto lover

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

More exaggeration when faced with facts that discount your opinion

Ah shucks am I upsetting you?

Uriel.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Your interest will be taxed, not your savings. This is something that the economy needs, people have gone from one extreme to the other when it comes to spending and it’s better for the economy/job creation point of view if those people who are lucky enough to have disposable income start spending more of it rather than saving it.

Well according to some here, advocating the government to create an environment encouraging people to spend more in the economy is some how equal to telling people to take out multiple mortgages and max out credit cards

irishfeen

tayto lover wrote: »

I wonder if they paid into a pension fund?
If I paid into one I believe i'd deserve to have it when I retired.
I wonder how much it cost them.

At the countries expense?... times have changed, we cannot afford to pay these people... FFS there is thousands of young educated people leaving on planes to get work and the country has a debt of 124% of GDP. We cannot afford to pay them.

Stinicker

A good budget for the working man, very bad for those on handouts, hopefully it will materialise into jobs. The DIRT hike is a disgrace and will trigger another bank liquidity crisis as billions in deposits will now move offshore when they will be receiving practically no Interest here.

shamrock55

irishfeen wrote: »

To be honest it seems a very fair budget, I know its hard on older people but the fact is that under FF money/grants were thrown at them for votes... that was unsustainable and we all must take pain.

Im sorry but we shouldnt all have to take the pain actually,the older folk in this country have spent their lives paying taxes,only to be ****ed in the arse now, their savings ****ed their pensions ****ed,fuel allowence lowered,funeral grants gone, medical cards taken from those who need it, the only arseholes who need to take the pain are those responsible for throwing money about willy nilly during the ct, the financial wizards who gambled away a countries future,the banking regulators,and the government for bending over backwards for the banks paying the ****ers back with my money without ever asking me:mad:

Ace2007

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'd class a pensioner getting 500 a week as rich/wealthy/well-off/not deserving of a free medical card subsidised by some workers making less than them a week.

would you say anyone earning over 500 a week should therefore not be given any hand outs either - so no free GP for you children under 5, or are you then going to change the goal posts?

tayto lover

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'd class a pensioner getting 500 a week as rich/wealthy/well-off/not deserving of a free medical card subsidised by some workers making less than them a week.

So someone who never contributed to the economy can get 230 per week and perks.
Someone who contributed to the economy over many years and who gets 500 p/w should get nothing more in your opinion?

So let's see. The advantage of working all those years and paying into a pension fund makes a difference of say 220 per week.
Had they remained on the dole they might have been better off and if they don';t live too long after retirement then the state is a winner.

irishfeen

shamrock55 wrote: »

Im sorry but we shouldnt all have to take the pain actually,the older folk in this country have spent their lives paying taxes,only to be ****ed in the arse now, their savings ****ed their pensions ****ed,fuel allowence lowered,funeral grants gone, medical cards taken from those who need it, the only arseholes who need to take the pain are those responsible for throwing money about willy nilly during the ct, the financial wizards who gambled away a countries future,the banking regulators,and the government for bending over backwards for the banks paying the ****ers back with my money without ever asking me:mad:

Being realistic as to the situation we find ourselves in...Who do you want to pay for the public sector, social welfare, state pensions, grants, free education etc? .... do you want the working man to pay even more?, the droves of educated people leaving on the plane?... who? We have to do this, we have no choice.

tayto lover

irishfeen wrote: »

At the countries expense?... times have changed, we cannot afford to pay these people... FFS there is thousands of young educated people leaving on planes to get work and the country has a debt of 124% of GDP. We cannot afford to pay them.

Someone suggested a bit of an auld cull on another forum.

bleg

Free GP care for all under 5s is a disgrace. Populist move to win votes and not even agreed with the relevant stakeholders. It's going to cost about €37 million apparently... This will probably be covered by the increase in the prescription tax.

Since its introduction in 2010 it has been increased from 50c to €2.50. Fine Gael and Labour both had it in their election manifesto to get rid of this tax. Tax the most vulnerable so the middle class voters can bring their little darlings to the GP when they have a sniffle. Hmm.

Enda Kenny said that the Seanad referendum was only introduced as he promised it before the election and how great it was that a politician was following through on a promise. How about delivering on some of your other promises.

Anyway hopefully the IMO and ICGP will call a halt to this cynical and populist move.

efb

I like this budget

tayto lover

Stinicker wrote: »

A good budget for the working man, very bad for those on handouts, hopefully it will materialise into jobs. The DIRT hike is a disgrace and will trigger another bank liquidity crisis as billions in deposits will now move offshore when they will be receiving practically no Interest here.

A good budget for the working man ...... until he retires seemingly.

Uriel.

bleg wrote: »

Free GP care for all under 5s is a disgrace. Populist move to win votes and not even agreed with the relevant stakeholders. It's going to cost about €37 million apparently... This will probably be covered by the increase in the prescription tax.

Since its introduction in 2010 it has been increased from 50c to €2.50. Fine Gael and Labour both had it in their election manifesto to get rid of this tax. Tax the most vulnerable so the middle class voters can bring their little darlings to the GP when they have a sniffle. Hmm.

Enda Kenny said that the Seanad referendum was only introduced as he promised it before the election and how great it was that a politician was following through on a promise. How about delivering on some of your other promises.

Anyway hopefully the IMO and ICGP will call a halt to this cynical and populist move.

How is the middle class the only class to benefit from the free GP care?

The middle class have been the ones to suffer most during the last four years.

The "most vulnerable" have been heavily insulated.

You're post screams of hysteria...ill founded hysteria

Edit: isn't the GP care the supposed first step in one of the election promises, universal healthcare?

irishfeen

bleg wrote: »

Free GP care for all under 5s is a disgrace. Populist move to win votes and not even agreed with the relevant stakeholders. It's going to cost about €37 million apparently... This will probably be covered by the increase in the prescription tax.

Since its introduction in 2010 it has been increased from 50c to €2.50. Fine Gael and Labour both had it in their election manifesto to get rid of this tax. Tax the most vulnerable so the middle class voters can bring their little darlings to the GP when they have a sniffle. Hmm.

Enda Kenny said that the Seanad referendum was only introduced as he promised it before the election and how great it was that a politician was following through on a promise. How about delivering on some of your other promises.

Anyway hopefully the IMO and ICGP will call a halt to this cynical and populist move.

Don't really agree, how is it a bad thing that newborns have free GP care no matter what family he/she is born into?

Foxtrol

Ace2007 wrote: »

would you say anyone earning over 500 a week should therefore not be given any hand outs either - so no free GP for you children under 5, or are you then going to change the goal posts?

Not sure how you can compare free GP care for a single parent working and earning 500 a week, supporting a child and a mortgage to a single pensioner receiving 500 a week pension with no mortgage or dependents getting a full medical card.

I’m actually agreeing that well off family’s shouldn’t get their under 5 GP covered but you’ve lost it with that comparison. It’s like comparing oranges to a car, they’re not close to the same situation.

mohawk

Ace2007 wrote: »

would you say anyone earning over 500 a week should therefore not be given any hand outs either - so no free GP for you children under 5, or are you then going to change the goal posts?

In fairness I can see where Foxtrol is coming from. I don't know many pensioners paying a rent/mortgage. Back in my grandparents time they took out 10-15 year mortgages so most have them well paid off before they hit retirement.
When you don't have rent/mortgage €500 a week is more than enough to live off.

Ace2007

irishfeen wrote: »

Being realistic as to the situation we find ourselves in...Who do you want to pay for the public sector, social welfare, state pensions, grants, free education etc? .... do you want the working man to pay even more?, the droves of educated people leaving on the plane?... who? We have to do this, we have no choice.

There are plenty of choices though no one wants to look at them.

You could suggest no more free education, have a UK type system whereby you have to get a loan to go to college and then pay it back - there would be uproar here if that was suggested. As you said our educated people are leaving the country - is it fair my tax educated them to go to australlia to earn more and pay less tax

Public sector is a joke - but that will never change cause no one in the government has the balls to sort it out so they will continue to let it be the inefficient money wasting machine that it is.

Following on from the above comment, the social welfare/job bridge are all over the place. Simple if you want to claim money you scan your finger print, getting that brought in would save the state money long term, there was a case in the courts during the week where a guy claimed another person's dole for 3 years - how is that possible - where was the checks - the people that paid him out should have implications - but I doubt they did.

So you see there are way without screwing over the most vulnerable but the government don't have the balls to do it.

DebDynamite

irishfeen wrote: »

Don't really agree, how is it a bad thing that newborns have free GP care no matter what family he/she is born into?

The mother of that newborn though has had her maternity benefit cut from €262 to €230 per week. Would the average child really get enough free GP visits over the 5 years to make up for that reduction?

Give with one hand and take with the other.

Foxtrol

tayto lover wrote: »

So someone who never contributed to the economy can get 230 per week and perks.
Someone who contributed to the economy over many years and who gets 500 p/w should get nothing more in your opinion?

So let's see. The advantage of working all those years and paying into a pension fund makes a difference of say 220 per week.
Had they remained on the dole they might have been better off and if they don';t live too long after retirement then the state is a winner.

‘Nothing’ – The hyperbole around here is fantastic. They are getting far from ‘nothing’, they’re getting plenty of ‘perks’ just not a free medical card subsidized by people paying taxes, trying to support their children, in negative equity while earning less than the pensioner.

You are aware that this universal ‘entitlement’ for them all to have a medical card hasn’t been here for generations, it’s something that was thought up by the crowd that ruined the country with extravagant, unaffordable attempts to buy votes.