Budget Day - The Official After Hours Thread - (Ireland's undisputed Voice of Reason)

jank

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

They seem pretty adamant on driving it true - sure dead people don't have votes is their mentality.

They are forgetting that someone has to pay for a funeral. People pay PRSI all their life, and now they can't even pass away in peace in the knowledge that they won't be indebting the family they leave behind if they are struggling financially.

It is actually a disgusting, horrible and spiteful cut.

That is what life insurance is for? Most people will have a few hundred bob put away for their funeral. If not they are irresponsible so not sure why the tax payer should pick up the tab.

EoghanIRL

ThisRegard wrote: »

Lots can, lots can't.

As posted above, 2 million medical cards out there practically means we have free health care in Ireland.

What about the other 2 and a half million people . Less than 50 percent have med cards , hardly free healthcare.

Medical card should be abolished , either everyone gets one or no one . If you have a medical car you get a free bus ticket , free exams etc . What is wrong with this country .

ash23

jank wrote: »

That is what life insurance is for? Most people will have a few hundred bob put away for their funeral. If not they are irresponsible so not sure why the tax payer should pick up the tab.

You do know young people die too? And children?

jank

ash23 wrote: »

You do know young people die too? And children?

And? Do you have a point?

ash23

jank wrote: »

And? Do you have a point?

I thought the obvious is obvious. Young people won't have planned for their funeral and might not have life insurance other than to cover their mortgage. Younger people tend to invest in pensions or pay health insurance with their extra funds, not plan their funerals. Most people wouldn't have money put aside for their childs funeral either.
So saying people should is not really acknowledging that it's not just old people who die. Deaths can be sudden and unexpected and adding to the woes of people in that scenario is somewhat heartless.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

tayto lover wrote: »

Thanks for that.
The point is they should have the peace of mind due to them for their sacrifices over many years.

They are spoilt.
sacrifices my arse.
There is NO justification to paying out a range freebies to people merely based on age.
Payments should be means tested, and freebie extras should not exist, discounts maybe, freebies no.

Sir Oxman

ash23 wrote: »

I thought the obvious is obvious. Young people won't have planned for their funeral and might not have life insurance other than to cover their mortgage. Younger people tend to invest in pensions or pay health insurance with their extra funds, not plan their funerals. Most people wouldn't have money put aside for their childs funeral either.
So saying people should is not really acknowledging that it's not just old people who die. Deaths can be sudden and unexpected and adding to the woes of people in that scenario is somewhat heartless.

Anyone caused financial hardship due to funeral expenses can still apply for a grant, AFAIK.

ash23

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Anyone caused financial hardship due to funeral expenses can still apply for a grant, AFAIK.

Yes but there's no guarantee. Plus they've to go to the cwo who is usually available once a week in the local health centre, sit and wait god knows how long and then go in and explain their predicament.
Hardly what a newly bereaved parent or spouse needs after a sudden loss.

Sir Oxman

ash23 wrote: »

Yes but there's no guarantee. Plus they've to go to the cwo who is usually available once a week in the local health centre, sit and wait god knows how long and then go in and explain their predicament.
Hardly what a newly bereaved parent or spouse needs after a sudden loss.

So just keep it as is and dole it out to everyone?

ash23

Sir Oxman wrote: »

So just keep it as is and dole it out to everyone?

Maybe not. But taking it from everyone and forcing those in need to jump through hoops at probably the worst and most vulnerable time of their lives is just cold and heartless.

efb

Jesus ya think AH is bad you should read the comments section on The Journal.

DrumSteve

efb wrote: »

Jesus ya think AH is bad you should read the comments section on The Journal.

Id argue that the comments section of that site is more accurate with regards public opinion than boards.

efb

DrumSteve wrote: »

Id argue that the comments section of that site is more accurate with regards public opinion than boards.

Still most of them are loud mouths pontificating their ill thought out narrow point of view

allibastor

What did I learn from Bugdet 2014?

If you are young, piss off and leave the country and come back when you have 5 or more years work expeience.

If you are Old, Hurry up an die.

If your on the dole, stay on it as it wont be worth your while to leave and then come back at a later date as we will give you the same money now as before.


If you want to work, be prepared to work for 50 euro a week unless you have some mad indemand skill for which a company has no way to use job bridge.

Oh, and if you do die, Best you had kept money for it, after years of paying tax and PRSI we can now offer you a nice ditch to spend eternity in.

ThisRegard

EoghanIRL wrote: »

What about the other 2 and a half million people . Less than 50 percent have med cards , hardly free healthcare.

Medical card should be abolished , either everyone gets one or no one . If you have a medical car you get a free bus ticket , free exams etc . What is wrong with this country .

"Practically", you know how that works in a sentence like that ?

And seriously ill people get their healthcare and medicines paid for by the state and you're asking what's wrong with the country ? You have a problem with that ?

Geuze

Hosp care is more or less free for everybody.

Except 100 ED fee and 75 fee if overnight.

_Kaiser_

allibastor wrote: »

What did I learn from Bugdet 2014?

If you are young, piss off and leave the country and come back when you have 5 or more years work experience for a holiday every now and then (but don't forget to bring plenty of cash!). Enjoy catching up with friends and family secure in the knowledge that soon you'll be leaving again to the much better life you've built yourself

FYP there.

If you're young and unemployed, you better hope mammy and daddy can afford to keep you as otherwise going abroad is probably your only option.

If you're a single father who actually takes an interest in his children and provides financially for them (directly and through the provision of a home where they can stay with you too) you're now going to be just under €140 a month less well off due to the changes in the tax credits

If you're old and actually NEED social support well then you may as well just hurry up and die alright

If you have a bank account expect more charges as your bank passes on the new levy to you (probably with a few quid added on for themselves)

If you drive you won't be screwed any worse but if you have an older car then you are still paying way over the odds for it in tax. Also don't forget that most of the price at the pump is tax

When you do die, you better have provided for your funeral or hope your family have the cash to give you a decent burial

ibarelycare

ash23 wrote: »

Yes but there's no guarantee. Plus they've to go to the cwo who is usually available once a week in the local health centre, sit and wait god knows how long and then go in and explain their predicament.
Hardly what a newly bereaved parent or spouse needs after a sudden loss.

It was never guaranteed in the past either.

K-9

awec wrote: »

Who said they all were? Not all pensioners are losing the card.

Here is the fact here:

1. Well off pensioners receiving large pensions on incomes which are higher than most working people and outgoings that are lower than most working people will not receive medical cards.
2. Pensioners who are not well off will continue to receive free healthcare.
3. Hyperbole ensues. "Won't somebody think of the pensioners on 900 quid a week?!"

Had the cards been kept:

1. All pensioners get the medical card
2. Tax increase to pay for it
3. "It's not fair that I have to pay more taxes! Tax and make cuts to the well off!"

I'd more of a gripe with the bereavement grant but probably the biggest cost for pensioners would be health related, the prices of some medicines are ridiculous and health insurance has gone up dramatically with no doubt another increase on the way, these costs effect the elderly with no medical cards far more.

A cut of a tenner probably would have saved more and people would just get on with it.

Banjo String

Why don't this govt means test when implementing Both cuts and gives.

Plenty of families with under fives could well afford the free gp visits for example.

Ditto with oaps, some are far far far better off than others.

Lazy half arsed measures if you ask me.

allibastor

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

FYP there.

If you're young and unemployed, you better hope mammy and daddy can afford to keep you as otherwise going abroad is probably your only option.

If you're a single father who actually takes an interest in his children and provides financially for them (directly and through the provision of a home where they can stay with you too) you're now going to be just under €140 a month less well off due to the changes in the tax credits

If you're old and actually NEED social support well then you may as well just hurry up and die alright

If you have a bank account expect more charges as your bank passes on the new levy to you (probably with a few quid added on for themselves)

If you drive you won't be screwed any worse but if you have an older car then you are still paying way over the odds for it in tax. Also don't forget that most of the price at the pump is tax

When you do die, you better have provided for your funeral or hope your family have the cash to give you a decent burial

I dont know how to requote what you quted from me, But it was very true.
I had that same conversation with a friends of mines mother who was anooyed her youngest has had to leave Ireland to find work. He didnt really but he is 25 and earns 120K dollars a year in Dubai. He was telling me he bought his first car a few weeks ago, Of course I asked what it was. Brand new BMW 520D fully stocked, Paid in Cash.

I told this to his Mom that where in the name of Jesus would you get that kind of job here, Google would be the best bet and they pay around 50K for good sales people.

mozattack

Tax, hikes, cut backs but no change to the braindead civil service wages really...

Turkeys voting for Xmas I suppose.

Uriel.

mozattack wrote: »

Tax, hikes, cut backs but no change to the braindead civil service wages really...

Turkeys voting for Xmas I suppose.

Very sweeping generalisation. Also, where have you been? PS pay and reform has been handled through a separate process (Croke Park / Haddington Road) - and wages have been cut in that sector, as recent as July

Uriel.

The thing that really annoys me with the budget is this:
I am probably going to get married in a couple of years and still no marriage grant. I was fully expecting a once off lump sum of €5,000 to help me fund my wedding. I can't believe they've delayed bringing it in. Why should I have to pay for my wedding!!! :mad::mad: :rolleyes:

angelclar

Any youth under 25 are better off out of this county that staying here . They cannot stay on €100 per week

OldRio

Just read the last few pages of this thread.
Fair play to the Government.
Divide and rule still works.
Let the great unwashed squabble amongst themselves whilst those with the real money and power go about their business unnoticed and untouched.

ThisRegard

OldRio wrote: »

whilst those with the real money and power go about their business unnoticed and untouched.

The ERSI themselves have said that high earners have been hard hit over the last few budgets with more than half their salaries going on taxes of some form or another.

Xenji

angelclar wrote: »

Any youth under 25 are better off out of this county that staying here . They cannot stay on €100 per week

Not even €100 a week for some after they are means tested, I know my sister lost €30 a week when she moved in with here boyfriend and he was on social welfare as well on the €188 rate, which is ridiculous and only due to the fact she is 2 years younger then him and seen as a dependent.

seamus

Banjo String wrote: »

Why don't this govt means test when implementing Both cuts and gives.

Plenty of families with under fives could well afford the free gp visits for example.

There are potential legal issues if the state doesn't treat all children equally. So denying free GP care to one child on the basis of parental wealth would be legally unequal and subject to challenge.
It's the same reason why child benefit is universal and hasn't changed.

This doesn't apply for things like college grants, because they're not given to children, therefore they can be means tested.

There will be some children getting free GP care where their parents can afford it, but on the flipside there are plenty of medical card holders who don't need to hold them. There's no perfect solution.

This government's stated aim is for universal free health care, so this is probably the first step. Next budget will be free GP care for all children under 16. In Dec 2015 (just before the next election), they'll extend that to everyone, with the promise of universal free healthcare if they get re-elected.

Xenji

seamus wrote: »

There are potential legal issues if the state doesn't treat all children equally. So denying free GP care to one child on the basis of parental wealth would be legally unequal and subject to challenge.
It's the same reason why child benefit is universal and hasn't changed.

How is this different then to treating all adults equally with regards the social welfare cuts?