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Budget Day - The Official After Hours Thread - (Ireland's undisputed Voice of Reason)
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How is this different then to treating all adults equally with regards the social welfare cuts?
Because the free gp visits and child benefit are for the child not the parents and all children are treated equally.
Also anyone who's income would fall outside what ever limit is set will be funding a lot more than their own childs free visits in the tax they pay so I don't see why they shouldn't get some benefits for forking out their hard earned money in taxes.0 -
Very sweeping generalisation. Also, where have you been? PS pay and reform has been handled through a separate process (Croke Park / Haddington Road) - and wages have been cut in that sector, as recent as July
Massive cuts yeah, that is why you have teachers etc on Prime Time crying cos they can't manage anymore. Yeah their massive pay cut of 8% max. LOL... seriously.
That is why I know a solicitor with 5 years post qualified experience earning half what a PE teacher in the same city is.
That is why I know of a ex Garda aged 50 earning more in pension for the rest of his life than an accountant with 15 years experience who actually works for that pay.
That is why I know of a guy who gives career advice in a college earning 3 times the average industrial wage.
In two of those cases they work less than 39 weeks per year.
That said, I do pity them or course and that is why they should be on Primetime filling up the seats of those who actually are struggling.0 -
So where did the free GP visits for the long term illness go ? That was promised and votes gained on the back of it and now they scrap that and give it all children .Some parents dont need it what a waste of money once again .
Far better would be a limited free GP for all kids , a certain amount of visits per year for example , free checks , free vaccine etc .0 -
So where did the free GP visits for the long term illness go ? That was promised and votes gained on the back of it and now they scrap that and give it all children .Some parents dont need it what a waste of money once again .
Far better would be a limited free GP for all kids , a certain amount of visits per year for example , free checks , free vaccine etc .
They actually screwed those with LTI who are working by Increasing the days without illness benefit from three to six. Of course it's a minority vote so nobody actually cares really.......until they themselves get sick.
The whole thing was a PR exercise really. Keep the majority happy with the lack of tax increases and the free gp for under fives and hit the minority groups so no mass protests kick off.0 -
Basically because adults have the ability to generate income for themselves, whereas children do not. Sins of the father and that, the state can't discriminate against children on the basis of their parents.How is this different then to treating all adults equally with regards the social welfare cuts?
You can argue that children whose parents can't afford private healthcare are being discriminated against, but that's not the state doing any discriminating; the state is still providing equal access to care for all children. Parents choosing to supplement that is not the state's concern.
In reality this is an extremely minor thing. Would removing this free GP care from a tiny amount of families who can afford it, make a big difference? Nope, probably not. This free GP care will be most heavily used by those who need it - lower-income families who are more likely to have more children, and to have children who require more frequent trips to the GP.
After you have paid for means testing everyone in order to take 100,000 families out of this loop, will you actually save enough money to give anyone back their medical card? I doubt it.
Like I say, this is a tiny adjustment. In any other budget it would basically pass with barely a whimper. The fact that people are making a big deal of it goes to show how small most of the changes in this budget were. A mere tweaking of the dials.0 -
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Massive cuts yeah, that is why you have teachers etc on Prime Time crying cos they can't manage anymore. Yeah their massive pay cut of 8% max. LOL... seriously.
That is why I know a solicitor with 5 years post qualified experience earning half what a PE teacher in the same city is.
That is why I know of a ex Garda aged 50 earning more in pension for the rest of his life than an accountant with 15 years experience who actually works for that pay.
That is why I know of a guy who gives career advice in a college earning 3 times the average industrial wage.
In two of those cases they work less than 39 weeks per year.
That said, I do pity them or course and that is why they should be on Primetime filling up the seats of those who actually are struggling.
I know what you mean.
I know a few public servants.
One of them has his own private security detail. I think he only mostly uses them when he heads down to PS HQ to pick up his wages (gets paid cash I believe). He's struggling big time since the cuts though. He had to put one of his 3 security guys on half time.
My brother's friend is a teacher. Nice chap, but definitely not right in the head. To be honest I blame the fact that he owns seven 5 bed houses and spends one night a week in each - all that moving around couldn't be conducive to healthy living.
My neighbour is a Garda, hardly ever see him though, he worked over time last St. Stephens' day and he gets the compulsory 12 month expenses paid trip to Abu Dhabi. Hope to meet him for a few drinks at Christmas before he gets back to the slog.
All this rain is worrying me though I got to tell you, my best friend, a Clerical Officer in Social Welfare was due to pick up his new ferrari this morning, it'll be ruined on him. Considering our roads here I told him several times not to waste his monthly bonus on the car, but he wouldn't listen.0 -
I know what you mean.
I know a few public servants.
One of them has his own private security detail. I think he only mostly uses them when he heads down to PS HQ to pick up his wages (gets paid cash I believe). He's struggling big time since the cuts though. He had to put one of his 3 security guys on half time.
My brother's friend is a teacher. Nice chap, but definitely not right in the head. To be honest I blame the fact that he owns seven 5 bed houses and spends one night a week in each - all that moving around couldn't be conducive to healthy living.
My neighbour is a Garda, hardly ever see him though, he worked over time last St. Stephens' day and he gets the compulsory 12 month expenses paid trip to Abu Dhabi. Hope to meet him for a few drinks at Christmas before he gets back to the slog.
All this rain is worrying me though I got to tell you, my best friend, a Clerical Officer in Social Welfare was due to pick up his new ferrari this morning, it'll be ruined on him. Considering our roads here I told him several times not to waste his monthly bonus on the car, but he wouldn't listen.
Bit of a half baked, pretty sarcastic reply to a reasonable post.
The poster you quoted brought up some very valid and believable points.
Do you doubt some of the salaries and pensions listed above?0 -
Banjo String wrote: »The poster you quoted brought up some very valid and believable points.
Do you doubt some of the salaries and pensions listed above?
LOL valid and believable points? or anecdotal gob****ery? I'll go with the second.0 -
Banjo String wrote: »Bit of a half baked, pretty sarcastic reply to a reasonable post.
The poster you quoted brought up some very valid and believable points.
Do you doubt some of the salaries and pensions listed above?
Teacher, nurses, Gardai etc should be well paid and should get good pensions.
Some people need to get over this begrudgery of other peoples wages especially when in most cases they are well deserved.
Public sector workers wages are down a lot on what they were a few years ago but some people won't be happy unless some of the most important jobs in the country are being worked for free.0 -
Gannon Quick Beech wrote: »Teacher, nurses, Gardai etc should be well paid and should get good pensions.
Some people need to get over this begrudgery of other peoples wages especially when in most cases they are well deserved.
Public sector workers wages are down a lot on what they were a few years ago but some people won't be happy unless some of the most important jobs in the country are being worked for free.
No begrudgery here. My wife is a nurse.
I know how little she gets for the extremely long hours she does.
I do find some of the examples above plausible though.0 -
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A lot of people need to wake up and realise that
- You are not entitled to expect the State (other taxpayers) to pay for any aspect of your life
- Because of point above make sure that you plan your life and the life of your children carefully
- Make sure you can afford children - dont assume medical cards, child benefit etc.
- Make sure your children go to school, pay attention and help them plan their careers
- You are going to retire one day so plan for that eventuality by saving, investing or getting a private pension. Understand that investments and pensions have risks attached so have a plan B in case it all goes tits up.
- You are going to die one day so save for your funeral and dont expect the state to pay for it
- You are going to get sick one day so either save money for this eventuality or pay for medical insurance
- You may lose your job one day so keep a rainy day fund to tide you over until you find a new job
- If you can't find your new perfect job then be prepared to emmigrate to find it or be prepared to do another job and in the end be prepared to do any job
- Constantly be focused on your career and employability. Do not think that because you have a permanent job that pays a decent income that that entitles you to sit back and not develop your skills further. Jobs and Industries do not last forever. Always plan for the worst case scenario.
- Many many people do all of the above and are not reliant on the state in any way. Understand that it p****s them off when people whinge about what they dont get for free
- Life is harsh, nobody owes you anything, especially a living. Look around and see the reality of poverty in other countries and understand how good you actually have it in comparison.
- Communism didnt work so stop bitching about what the wealthy have you and have not. If you want more money then work for it. If you dont have the ability to make a fortune then I'm sorry but those are the breaks.
- A social safety net for the truly needy such as the disabled is impacted and reduced due to the bad planning of lots of able people who expect others to pay for some aspect of their lives. Spending many nights a week in the pub over the course of your life and then expecting the state to pick up the costs of your funeral has a real effect on what the state can afford to pay for people who are disabled and have special needs.
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ThisRegard wrote: »The ERSI themselves have said that high earners have been hard hit over the last few budgets with more than half their salaries going on taxes of some form or another.
Yet statistics show that the budgets under this Government have been regressive, even more so than the FF ones and this one is hardly going to help in that regard.There will be some children getting free GP care where their parents can afford it, but on the flipside there are plenty of medical card holders who don't need to hold them. There's no perfect solution.
This government's stated aim is for universal free health care, so this is probably the first step. Next budget will be free GP care for all children under 16. In Dec 2015 (just before the next election), they'll extend that to everyone, with the promise of universal free healthcare if they get re-elected.
The cost for u-5's is about €37/38 Million because about half of them have cards anyway.Massive cuts yeah, that is why you have teachers etc on Prime Time crying cos they can't manage anymore. Yeah their massive pay cut of 8% max. LOL... seriously.
That is why I know a solicitor with 5 years post qualified experience earning half what a PE teacher in the same city is.
That is why I know of a ex Garda aged 50 earning more in pension for the rest of his life than an accountant with 15 years experience who actually works for that pay.
That is why I know of a guy who gives career advice in a college earning 3 times the average industrial wage.
In two of those cases they work less than 39 weeks per year.
That said, I do pity them or course and that is why they should be on Primetime filling up the seats of those who actually are struggling.
It's the new entrants who are taking the biggest cuts, new Gardai don't get that brilliant a wage for the work they do. So much for trade union solidarity!Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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Wow, didn't know we had a Coalition spokesman on boards.ieA lot of people need to wake up and realise that- You are not entitled to expect the State (other taxpayers) to pay for any aspect of your life
- Because of point above make sure that you plan your life and the life of your children carefully
- Make sure you can afford children - dont assume medical cards, child benefit etc.
- Make sure your children go to school, pay attention and help them plan their careers
- You are going to retire one day so plan for that eventuality by saving, investing or getting a private pension. Understand that investments and pensions have risks attached so have a plan B in case it all goes tits up.
- You are going to die one day so save for your funeral and dont expect the state to pay for it
- You are going to get sick one day so either save money for this eventuality or pay for medical insurance
- You may lose your job one day so keep a rainy day fund to tide you over until you find a new job
- If you can't find your new perfect job then be prepared to emmigrate to find it or be prepared to do another job and in the end be prepared to do any job
- Constantly be focused on your career and employability. Do not think that because you have a permanent job that pays a decent income that that entitles you to sit back and not develop your skills further. Jobs and Industries do not last forever. Always plan for the worst case scenario.
- Many many people do all of the above and are not reliant on the state in any way. Understand that it p****s them off when people whinge about what they dont get for free
- Life is harsh, nobody owes you anything, especially a living. Look around and see the reality of poverty in other countries and understand how good you actually have it in comparison.
- Communism didnt work so stop bitching about what the wealthy have you and have not. If you want more money then work for it. If you dont have the ability to make a fortune then I'm sorry but those are the breaks.
- A social safety net for the truly needy such as the disabled is impacted and reduced due to the bad planning of lots of able people who expect others to pay for some aspect of their lives. Spending many nights a week in the pub over the course of your life and then expecting the state to pick up the costs of your funeral has a real effect on what the state can afford to pay for people who are disabled and have special needs.
They have you really brainwashed my man. Your attitude is essentially pay your taxes and bend over and take it.
Right..:rolleyes:0 -
A lot of people need to wake up and realise that
- You are not entitled to expect the State (other taxpayers) to pay for any aspect of your life
- Because of point above make sure that you plan your life and the life of your children carefully
- Make sure you can afford children - dont assume medical cards, child benefit etc.
- Make sure your children go to school, pay attention and help them plan their careers
- You are going to retire one day so plan for that eventuality by saving, investing or getting a private pension. Understand that investments and pensions have risks attached so have a plan B in case it all goes tits up.
- You are going to die one day so save for your funeral and dont expect the state to pay for it
- You are going to get sick one day so either save money for this eventuality or pay for medical insurance
- You may lose your job one day so keep a rainy day fund to tide you over until you find a new job
- If you can't find your new perfect job then be prepared to emmigrate to find it or be prepared to do another job and in the end be prepared to do any job
- Constantly be focused on your career and employability. Do not think that because you have a permanent job that pays a decent income that that entitles you to sit back and not develop your skills further. Jobs and Industries do not last forever. Always plan for the worst case scenario.
- Many many people do all of the above and are not reliant on the state in any way. Understand that it p****s them off when people whinge about what they dont get for free
- Life is harsh, nobody owes you anything, especially a living. Look around and see the reality of poverty in other countries and understand how good you actually have it in comparison.
- Communism didnt work so stop bitching about what the wealthy have you and have not. If you want more money then work for it. If you dont have the ability to make a fortune then I'm sorry but those are the breaks.
- A social safety net for the truly needy such as the disabled is impacted and reduced due to the bad planning of lots of able people who expect others to pay for some aspect of their lives. Spending many nights a week in the pub over the course of your life and then expecting the state to pick up the costs of your funeral has a real effect on what the state can afford to pay for people who are disabled and have special needs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_world_fallacy
Also, regarding the communism point, every political system in the modern world has failed.Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.
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Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_world_fallacy
Also, regarding the communism point, every political system in the modern world has failed.
In fairness, he addressed that. He said life isn't fair so the implication is that he just doesn't give a ****.0 -
Wow, didn't know we had a Coalition spokesman on boards.ie
They have you really brainwashed my man. Your attitude is essentially pay your taxes and bend over and take it.
Right..:rolleyes:
Bot parties are full of idiots. What i'm taking about is common sense no matter what western country you live in0 -
Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_world_fallacy
Also, regarding the communism point, every political system in the modern world has failed.
Your link has no relevance to what I posted. Communism has failed more than others and more spectaculalry. We are working within a version of the only viable economic and political system. By all means come up with an alernative and implement it.0 -
In fairness, he addressed that. He said life isn't fair so the implication is that he just doesn't give a ****.
Dont assume that I dont give a sht. When you are planning your life you have to assume other people dont give a sht. Otherwise you are just setting yourself up for a fall.0 -
Dont assume that I dont give a sht. When you are planning your life you have to assume other people dont give a sht. Otherwise you are just setting yourself up for a fall.
Seeing as you don't believe in any aspect of modern society I'll continue to assume you're one of the people who don't care.0 -
In fairness, he addressed that. He said life isn't fair so the implication is that he just doesn't give a ****.
Not really, he said life was harsh, which is different. Every point implies that people who are reliant on the state for something are so because they didn't take the advice he lists, or did something to wind up that way. Which is bull****.Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.
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Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »Not really, he said life was harsh, which is different. Every point implies that people who are reliant on the state for something are so because they didn't take the advice he lists, or did something to wind up that way. Which is bull****.
I didnt imply anything. I was very clear about what I was saying. Do not expect anything and plan your life accordingly. Sht happens, everybody is aware of that, I'm just saying... plan for the sht.0 -
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A lot of people need to wake up and realise that
- You are not entitled to expect the State (other taxpayers) to pay for any aspect of your life
- Because of point above make sure that you plan your life and the life of your children carefully
- Make sure you can afford children - dont assume medical cards, child benefit etc.
- Make sure your children go to school, pay attention and help them plan their careers
- You are going to retire one day so plan for that eventuality by saving, investing or getting a private pension. Understand that investments and pensions have risks attached so have a plan B in case it all goes tits up.
- You are going to die one day so save for your funeral and dont expect the state to pay for it
- You are going to get sick one day so either save money for this eventuality or pay for medical insurance
- You may lose your job one day so keep a rainy day fund to tide you over until you find a new job
- If you can't find your new perfect job then be prepared to emmigrate to find it or be prepared to do another job and in the end be prepared to do any job
- Constantly be focused on your career and employability. Do not think that because you have a permanent job that pays a decent income that that entitles you to sit back and not develop your skills further. Jobs and Industries do not last forever. Always plan for the worst case scenario.
- Many many people do all of the above and are not reliant on the state in any way. Understand that it p****s them off when people whinge about what they dont get for free
- Life is harsh, nobody owes you anything, especially a living. Look around and see the reality of poverty in other countries and understand how good you actually have it in comparison.
- Communism didnt work so stop bitching about what the wealthy have you and have not. If you want more money then work for it. If you dont have the ability to make a fortune then I'm sorry but those are the breaks.
- A social safety net for the truly needy such as the disabled is impacted and reduced due to the bad planning of lots of able people who expect others to pay for some aspect of their lives. Spending many nights a week in the pub over the course of your life and then expecting the state to pick up the costs of your funeral has a real effect on what the state can afford to pay for people who are disabled and have special needs.
your post is a breath of fresh air in a room full of banal , meaningless platitudes
when can I vote for you ?0 -
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I thought the obvious is obvious. Young people won't have planned for their funeral and might not have life insurance other than to cover their mortgage. Younger people tend to invest in pensions or pay health insurance with their extra funds, not plan their funerals. Most people wouldn't have money put aside for their childs funeral either.
So saying people should is not really acknowledging that it's not just old people who die. Deaths can be sudden and unexpected and adding to the woes of people in that scenario is somewhat heartless.
Couple of points.
If you are young and have a mortgage then you should have appropriate insurance.
If they had funds in a pension then funds are paid out due to death. Said funds can be used for funeral expenses.
What you are saying is the tax payer should pay for a funeral of a person who may die before their time. That is not reasonable or fair for the tax payer.
I dont have a mortgage, don't have kids or any loans what-soever. In fact I am in the black my almost 6 figures in savings, yet even I have life insurance which will pay about over 600k in the event I die. I don't want my fiancé or future wife having financial issues in the event I pass away and I certainly don't want the state to pay for it. Life insurance for someone young is very very cheap.0 -
Your link has no relevance to what I posted. Communism has failed more than others and more spectaculalry. We are working within a version of the only viable economic and political system. By all means come up with an alernative and implement it.
American style capitalism is in great health, though, no? Seriously - the problem is that people run the systems, people choose the systems and people are insecure and corrupt.
The only places which you could say have any degree of success are the Scandanavian ones, and they are based heavily on taxation and a high quality of social services across the board. And they tend to score well in the good-places-to-live-in polls every time.I didnt imply anything. I was very clear about what I was saying. Do not expect anything and plan your life accordingly. Sht happens, everybody is aware of that, I'm just saying... plan for the sht.
Your post does imply it. It implies that the whole point of the state is not to help you. If it implies that you plan for the ****, it implies that people who don't get into their own mess. EG - people can't "plan" to have kids, it just happens. No matter how much planning you make. The kid, when born, deserves free health care. He does not deserve to be ****ed over simply because his parents didn't plan for him.
And the high taxation model makes the same plans, does it not, and has a hell of a lot more security to it.Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.
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A lot of people need to wake up and realise that
- You are not entitled to expect the State (other taxpayers) to pay for any aspect of your life
- Because of point above make sure that you plan your life and the life of your children carefully
- Make sure you can afford children - dont assume medical cards, child benefit etc.
- Make sure your children go to school, pay attention and help them plan their careers
- You are going to retire one day so plan for that eventuality by saving, investing or getting a private pension. Understand that investments and pensions have risks attached so have a plan B in case it all goes tits up.
- You are going to die one day so save for your funeral and dont expect the state to pay for it
- You are going to get sick one day so either save money for this eventuality or pay for medical insurance
- You may lose your job one day so keep a rainy day fund to tide you over until you find a new job
- If you can't find your new perfect job then be prepared to emmigrate to find it or be prepared to do another job and in the end be prepared to do any job
- Constantly be focused on your career and employability. Do not think that because you have a permanent job that pays a decent income that that entitles you to sit back and not develop your skills further. Jobs and Industries do not last forever. Always plan for the worst case scenario.
- Many many people do all of the above and are not reliant on the state in any way. Understand that it p****s them off when people whinge about what they dont get for free
- Life is harsh, nobody owes you anything, especially a living. Look around and see the reality of poverty in other countries and understand how good you actually have it in comparison.
- Communism didnt work so stop bitching about what the wealthy have you and have not. If you want more money then work for it. If you dont have the ability to make a fortune then I'm sorry but those are the breaks.
- A social safety net for the truly needy such as the disabled is impacted and reduced due to the bad planning of lots of able people who expect others to pay for some aspect of their lives. Spending many nights a week in the pub over the course of your life and then expecting the state to pick up the costs of your funeral has a real effect on what the state can afford to pay for people who are disabled and have special needs.
This, this, this x 1 Million!0 -
Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_world_fallacy
Also, regarding the communism point, every political system in the modern world has failed.
Has democracy failed? Has the free market failed? News to me.0 -
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