Multi-functional events centre (Budget 2014)

D'Agger

Pitcairn wrote: »

Yea, it's the former ma/comm site. Permission already exists for offices there so John Cleary who did City Gate is developing it.

http://planning.corkcity.ie/internetenquiry/rpt_viewApplicDetails.asp?app_num_file=1436201

Cheers for clearing that up for me Pitcairn hadn't had a chance to look into it since getting back to Cork

Bacchus wrote: »

Plenty of space up there alright for another City Gate sized development. I REALLY hope though that a) this goes ahead (more jobs for Cork!) and b) part of the planning approval involves improving the road network in Mahon. If they can't do anything to improve the traffic/road situation, as nice as it would be to see the Mahon Silicon Valley expand even more, I'd rather see this development go somewhere else in Cork.

This. Would be another great addition to the area but the roads in Blackrock and particularly the bike lanes, would need an upgrade. Traffic is nuts around that area as is so something would need to change.

ofcork wrote: »

I see Owen o Callaghan is building offices on the site on Albert quay just down from the jcd offices where he wanted to put the event centre.

More good news I guess, assuming there are companies to fill the buildings!

If that, the events centre & a third citygate go ahead then Cork could soon find itself in the middle of a mini-boom in the next couple of years.

BUNK1982

ofcork wrote: »

I see Owen o Callaghan is building offices on the site on Albert quay just down from the jcd offices where he wanted to put the event centre.

That is good news - this, the JCD offices, the events centre are 3x projects that benefit the city centre.

You have to hope that infrastructure to support these once operational will follow eg buses, parking etc.

I'm not as enthusiastic about another CityGate development - i work in Mahon and the traffic is nuts. Not just in Mahon/ Blackrock but also onto the South Ring Road especially in the mornings.

pogsick

BUNK1982 wrote: »

That is good news - this, the JCD offices, the events centre are 3x projects that benefit the city centre.

You have to hope that infrastructure to support these once operational will follow eg buses, parking etc.

I'm not as enthusiastic about another CityGate development - i work in Mahon and the traffic is nuts. Not just in Mahon/ Blackrock but also onto the South Ring Road especially in the mornings.

I'm in the same boat, I work in Mahon, getting home to Douglas takes upto an hour when finishing between 5 and 6.30, they really need to do something to fix the traffic before adding even more to it

Ludo

pogsick wrote: »

I'm in the same boat, I work in Mahon, getting home to Douglas takes upto an hour when finishing between 5 and 6.30, they really need to do something to fix the traffic before adding even more to it

Get a bike

pogsick

Ludo wrote: »

Get a bike

I would if my workplace provided showering facilities etc. they don't and I don't fancy sitting and stinking out the office for 8 hrs 5 times a week

CHealy

pogsick wrote: »

I would if my workplace provided showering facilities etc. they don't and I don't fancy sitting and stinking out the office for 8 hrs 5 times a week

Coward.

Rhys Essien

It looks like the Event Centre wont start for at least 6 months.Things have to be agreed with Live Nation.I say it will be lucky to start at all this year.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rejected-centre-site-set-for-hi-tech-offices-305768.html

D'Agger

Rhys Essien wrote: »

It looks like the Event Centre wont start for at least 6 months.Things have to be agreed with Live Nation.I say it will be lucky to start at all this year.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rejected-centre-site-set-for-hi-tech-offices-305768.html

Well now it has the go ahead I'm not too bothered about them undertaking detailed planning rather than fire up the centre and have issues later. No doubt it'll have issues anyway but it's going to be interesting how they plan around traffic and such. Hopefully 6months is all it takes

zetalambda

ofcork wrote: »

I see Owen o Callaghan is building offices on the site on Albert quay just down from the jcd offices where he wanted to put the event centre.

He will also be building an office block on Anderson's quay this year.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rejected-centre-site-set-for-hi-tech-offices-305768.html

namloc1980

Rhys Essien wrote: »

It looks like the Event Centre wont start for at least 6 months.Things have to be agreed with Live Nation.I say it will be lucky to start at all this year.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/rejected-centre-site-set-for-hi-tech-offices-305768.html

And when they do start digging the archaeologists will then be in there as it is the site of a part of the old city walls and a viking site. It will be many years before this is built.

the beer revolu

namloc1980 wrote: »

And when they do start digging the archaeologists will then be in there as it is the site of a part of the old city walls and a viking site. It will be many years before this is built.

Nice to see a bit of Cork optimism going strong.

namloc1980

the beer revolu wrote: »

Nice to see a bit of Cork optimism going strong.

Just being realistic. Projects in Cork just take forever. Pairc Ui Chaoimh and new south entrance at Kent station being talked about for 10-15 years and are only just commencing in 2015. Tramore Valley Park and Marina Park launched with great fanfare in the last 3 or so years. No sign of either being delivered.

kub

the beer revolu wrote: »

Nice to see a bit of Cork optimism going strong.

I agree with that posters comment as i also mentioned the same a few weeks back. Across the street from the Beamish and Crawford site there is a car park which can also be accessed from Grand Parade.
A few years ago that site was supposed to have been developed, once the ground work commenced, archaeologists had to be appointed as it is just like the new site, of significant historical interest.

I know for a fact that archaeologists were on that site for over 2 years as they discovered the old city walls.

There are plenty more treasures to be found beneath the Beamish and Crawford site, so the building of this new centre will take a while hopefully, not too long, now that is Cork optimism. Realistic optimism at that.

mire

kub wrote: »

I agree with that posters comment as i also mentioned the same a few weeks back. Across the street from the Beamish and Crawford site there is a car park which can also be accessed from Grand Parade.
A few years ago that site was supposed to have been developed, once the ground work commenced, archaeologists had to be appointed as it is just like the new site, of significant historical interest.

I know for a fact that archaeologists were on that site for over 2 years as they discovered the old city walls.

There are plenty more treasures to be found beneath the Beamish and Crawford site, so the building of this new centre will take a while hopefully, not too long, now that is Cork optimism. Realistic optimism at that.[/QUOTE

You'd swear that Cork is the only city in Europe to have to deal with archaeology - it's part and parcel of the development story in most cities. The Citi-car park site, off Grand Parade has not be redeveloped because the owner is making easy money from car parking. The lack of progress has nothing to do with archaeology. The Beamish site will have to be subject to archeological studies during excavation, but this is standard practice.

kub

I reckon the recession has more to do with the fact that car park was not developed rather than the revenue from it.

mire

kub wrote: »

I reckon the recession has more to do with the fact that car park was not developed rather than the revenue from it.

Don't agree. This site has remained undeveloped for 20 years. It remained as a surface car park right throughout the boom as well.

kub

mire wrote: »

Don't agree. This site has remained undeveloped for 20 years. It remained as a surface car park right throughout the boom as well.

So the developer a certain Mr Kenny was very charitable a few years ago when he had to pay quite a lot of money for archaeologists to do a dig in his car park for no reason.

It really doesn't matter if you agree with fact or not though.

mire

kub wrote: »

So the developer a certain Mr Kenny was very charitable a few years ago when he had to pay quite a lot of money for archaeologists to do a dig in his car park for no reason.

It really doesn't matter if you agree with fact or not though.

Not sure what you're actually getting at [or why you are seemingly peeved at someone who disagrees with you]. Are you saying that Paul Kenny has not proceeded with redevelopment because of the archaeological issues? Rubbish. Loads and loads of sites have expenses and complications associated with archaeological issues; it's a matter of course in most urban redevelopment projects; an assumed and expected cost in fact. The whole of central London is built over archaeological remains of layers and layers of medieval remains. It's an everyday part of development. A good developer would simply have dealt with the issue. Unfortunately, in this case, surface car parking is 1. easy 2. riskless 3. profitable. I think the soon - to be introduced vacant site levy should be applied retrospectively on this [and other sites]. It's an insult to the city.

54kroc

mire wrote: »

Not sure what you're actually getting at [or why you are seemingly peeved at someone who disagrees with you]. Are you saying that Paul Kenny has not proceeded with redevelopment because of the archaeological issues? Rubbish. Loads and loads of sites have expenses and complications associated with archaeological issues; it's a matter of course in most urban redevelopment projects; an assumed and expected cost in fact. The whole of central London is built over archaeological remains of layers and layers of medieval remains. It's an everyday part of development. A good developer would simply have dealt with the issue. Unfortunately, in this case, surface car parking is 1. easy 2. riskless 3. profitable. I think the soon - to be introduced vacant site levy should be applied retrospectively on this [and other sites]. It's an insult to the city.

Do you not think that the recession had any to do with what has happened to that site.

kub

54kroc wrote: »

Do you not think that the recession had any to do with what has happened to that site.

He probably doesn't know about that either. When the dig started times were good, the developer may not have known how long it would take but by the time the dig was complete the recession had started.

mire

54kroc wrote: »

Do you not think that the recession had any to do with what has happened to that site.

Honestly, no. I looked up the planning online system to check if my memory was letting me down. The last time there was any attempt to get planning on this site [according to the planning system] was 2002 - and the applicant, Paul Kenny withdrew the planning application. Since then, nothing. So, right throughout the boom, and for the last 12 years, the owner did absolutley nothing to try to get a planning permission. Instead, he ran a surface car park. Which provides revenue. So, the idea, that the recession cam e along in 2008/2009 and out a stop to an impending redevelopment doesn't ring true. During this time, many other sites were redeveloped right across the city and right across the historic core, many of which had to deal with archaeology. The evidence suggests that the recession was not in fact the reason for a lack of activity on this site - rather it was simply a lack of effort.

This site highlights the danger associated with allowing empty urban sites to be used for 'temporary' surface car parking. They serve to sterlise development potential becuase they are an easy revenue source with minimal investment.

ofcork

I see john cleary is the buyer of the capitol site should see work begin soon I would imagine or will he finish his albert quay site beforehand,more positive news for cork.

namloc1980

ofcork wrote: »

I see john cleary is the buyer of the capitol site should see work begin soon I would imagine or will he finish his albert quay site beforehand,more positive news for cork.

Planning to be applied for first, probably a year off before any work starts at the earliest. About time though, the site is such an eyesore in its current condition.

blindsider

ofcork wrote: »

I see john cleary is the buyer of the capitol site should see work begin soon I would imagine or will he finish his albert quay site beforehand,more positive news for cork.

Does he own Wilton Shopping Centre? the rumour I heard was that the owner of Wilton bought the Capitol...?

Separately, Penneys rumoured to be unhappy in Wilton, and proposing to move to Ballincollig?

Anyone else hear this?

evilivor

blindsider wrote: »

Does he own Wilton Shopping Centre? the rumour I heard was that the owner of Wilton bought the Capitol...?

Separately, Penneys rumoured to be unhappy in Wilton, and proposing to move to Ballincollig?

Anyone else hear this?

Wilton Shopping Centre is due to go on sale shortly as part of a Nama bundle.

The same person used to own both the Cineplex and Wilton.

54kroc

blindsider wrote: »

Does he own Wilton Shopping Centre? the rumour I heard was that the owner of Wilton bought the Capitol...?

Separately, Penneys rumoured to be unhappy in Wilton, and proposing to move to Ballincollig?

Anyone else hear this?

Do you know why?

blindsider

'fraid not - if I was to speculate, I'd say the lease is up for renewal, and there's an argument over rent/terms....pure speculation though....

Going Strong

blindsider wrote: »

'fraid not - if I was to speculate, I'd say the lease is up for renewal, and there's an argument over rent/terms....pure speculation though....

Wasn't there an awful lot of negotiation back in the day when Tesco took on the majority lease? IIRC, they had a heck of a job persuading another big name store to move in there after Roches Stores (as was) pulled out.

Regarding the Capitol Cinema block, at least with Cleary behind it you can be sure he has a sustainable plan and some tenants lined up as that's how he operates.

54kroc

Going Strong wrote: »

Wasn't there an awful lot of negotiation back in the day when Tesco took on the majority lease? IIRC, they had a heck of a job persuading another big name store to move in there after Roches Stores (as was) pulled out.

Regarding the Capitol Cinema block, at least with Cleary behind it you can be sure he has a sustainable plan and some tenants lined up as that's how he operates.

I think the rent price was the issue in Wilton, that's why M&S didn't go in there, although I wonder do they regret that now.
tbh I can't see Pennys leaving there.

blindsider

54kroc wrote: »

I think the rent price was the issue in Wilton, that's why M&S didn't go in there, although I wonder do they regret that now.
tbh I can't see Pennys leaving there.

...me neither, but if the lease is up, and the rent is being hiked, they might play hardball.

M&S refused to deal with the owner - weren't happy with aspects of the negotiation apparently.