Reminder

adrian522

If you are playing the CPU can you make sure to post a note if you had a disconnect and need to restart, you may do this once only.

Also can we keep the play calling relatively realistic. your split between run and pass should not be heavily favouring one over the other.

In the NFL teams will generally have 60/40 split one over the other but I have noticed some teams running 80% of the time or more.

It is not much fun for people to have to defend the same play over and over so try and mix up your play calling.

From the rulebook:

"We are striving to be a sim league, that is to try to play as teams do in the NFL. Therefore, play calling should reflect that in your games. If you wouldn't see it in the NFL, you probably shouldn’t be seeing it in these league games."

Thanks.

Pudsy33

Am I guilt of the playcalling thing? I tend to run a fair bit

adrian522

I don't know, I just looked at a few games, just putting it out there that everyone's play calling should have some amount of balance in it.

Raoul

I don't know about this. If a team is constantly defending against the pass (i.e men in coverage and not up at the line), I am going to run on them. The idea here is to run run run so that they will defend the run and then I will pass.

You probably agree to some extent and I know you are just trying to be fair but I just think its up to the defences to deal with it. If they were always pressing and looking to stop the run, then I would pass. I just do what the defence can't defend.

davetherave

Yeah I think this came up at a beers a while back and the general consensus was that if for example you were gaining 8-10 yards on a single play using the same play say a Weak I Twins Left TE Right, 35 run where your pulling guard keeps making a great block and the defence doesn't make any adjustments then it is all on the defence player. There is no point in going Cover Three and dropping off if you keep facing the same off tackle run.

Raoul

You are right Dave and I think this is realistic in the NFL. If a team is gaining yards in a game on the ground, they won't feel the need to pass and won't be thinking about the percentages of passes/runs.

adrian522

No team in the NFL is running 80% of time. Every team in real life will have a good run pass ratio as below.

Passing Plays Rank Team 2012 1 Detroit 66.29% 2 Dallas 66.16% 3 Arizona 65.39% 4 New Orleans 65.32% 5 Jacksonville 63.98% 6 Oakland 63.57% 7 Atlanta 62.80% 8 Philadelphia 61.72% 9 Indianapolis 60.70% 10 Tennessee 60.50% 11 Cleveland 60.32% 12 Pittsburgh 59.73% 13 St Louis 59.08% 14 Green Bay 58.80% 15 Tampa Bay 58.73% 16 San Diego 58.40% 17 Cincinnati 58.08% 18 NY Giants 57.75% 19 New England 57.03% 20 Denver 55.65% 21 Baltimore 55.60% 22 Miami 55.19% 23 Buffalo 55.04% 24 Houston 54.11% 25 Carolina 53.24% 26 Chicago 52.95% 27 NY Jets 52.22% 28 Minnesota 51.55% 29 Kansas City 50.74% 30 San Francisco 48.66% 31 Washington 48.28% 32 Seattle 45.76%

To be honest if people are going to be running the same "money" plays over and over it takes the fun out of the game for me.

As I think the rule above is pretty clear we are not making any changes, just reminding people to keep their play calling relatively balanced.

Pudsy33

It might not be the case people are running "money" plays though, maybe the defence isn't set up correctly. If i see an opening I'm going to exploit it, but that desn't necessarily mean its a money play.

Overall though I agree with your points.

Pudsy33

Actually where can you find the play ratios for our league?

adrian522

You'll just have to go into stats and look at pass attempts and run attempts per team.

Pudsy33

Wow I'm about 65% pass, I would've said I'd be the complete opposite!

Rock Lesnar

Well i would imagine i probably pass to much, but i'll be honest i have'nt a clue how to read a defense or set one up , i just decide im either gonna run or pass, what defense is set up i could'nt tell ya, i'm trying to run more, but im just not good at it, i just find i'm better at the pass then the run

Raoul

adrian522 wrote: »

To be honest if people are going to be running the same "money" plays over and over it takes the fun out of the game for me.

I think its different if people are running the same play over and over again but different types of run are fine with me. I have no idea how much I run or pass, I would say its pretty even actually (could be totally wrong)

PADRAIC.M

Seattle pass 45% of the time in real life, think I'm pretty close to that!

adrian522

Raoul wrote: »

I think its different if people are running the same play over and over again but different types of run are fine with me. I have no idea how much I run or pass, I would say its pretty even actually (could be totally wrong)

You could have different plays that are essentially runs up the middle, you think it's ok to run up the middle on 80% of your plays? If so fine but that is not what is in the rules.

Nelbert

I've never been able to run the ball effectively until this season so I may be overdoing it slightly.

When you winning and you've a strong runner like AP I don't see why you'd throw it when Ponder is your QB on anything other than 3rd and 7+ yards.

Raoul

adrian522 wrote: »

You could have different plays that are essentially runs up the middle, you think it's ok to run up the middle on 80% of your plays? If so fine but that is not what is in the rules.

I was playing Dave last night, I used peppers loads last night to put pressure on the qb. Should I not have kept doing that? He could have put Jacobs out to help block him or came out of the shotgun to give himself more time? Am I wrong to exploit a weakness in my opponents team?

Same with if the opposition has a poor defensive player. I will try and exploit it. If he doesn't change up then it's his fault. Do you disagree?

adrian522

Yes I do.

I think we should follow the rules and keep the play calling as sim as possible. No matter what happens in a game you would never see an NFL team run the ball 80% of the time, from my point of view we should not be seeing that in the leagues either.

I think it is cheesy in the extreme to keep going after the same defensive player on every play because you see a weakness.

I'd like to think I would point out the weakness to my opponent rather than going after it again and again. There is nothing more frustrating to me than having a weakness that you are not able rectify and have it exploited over and over again.

Pudsy33

No defense in the NFL is going to keep showing the same look/formation if they're getting a pasting using it. It has to work both ways. If we are talking about abusing a glitch, I am with Adrian 100%, but if someone keep covering my WR with a linebacker I'm gonna throw that thing deep all day.

Raoul

adrian522 wrote: »

Yes I do.

I think we should follow the rules and keep the play calling as sim as possible. No matter what happens in a game you would never see an NFL team run the ball 80% of the time, from my point of view we should not be seeing that in the leagues either.

I think it is cheesy in the extreme to keep going after the same defensive player on every play because you see a weakness.

I'd like to think I would point out the weakness to my opponent rather than going after it again and again. There is nothing more frustrating to me than having a weakness that you are not able rectify and have it exploited over and over again.

I actually didn't control Peppers and exploit it that much actually, I was just using it as an example and I did say it to Dave. But no point lying, if I wasn't winning and I needed to win, I would not have said it. Same way if I have AP and a crappy QB, I would try and use AP as much as possible.

As Pudsy said, if it is a glitch then it shouldn't be abused but if I have the better of someone because there is a mismatch and they don't realise, I am not going to say it. I was playing someone the other day and they constantly passed it to Jimmy Graham, I couldn't stop him no matter what. I could hardly say look its cheesy to pass to your TE all the time. In my eyes it isn't, he was using his best player to the best of his ability and my defense couldn't handle it.

I think the same goes for the person that has the unbelievable running back, use them as much as you want. A team in the NFL is all about winning and if they could they would run it every single down.

Its good to have the discussion though and I totally understand where you are coming from though.

adrian522

Well take passing to the TE, I think it would be extremely cheesy to pass to the TE on every play, if you have a good pass catching TE and you are matched up against Linebackers most of the time you could easily do it, but it takes away a lot of the fun.

Why would you not keep that bit of knowledge until later in the game rather than passing to him on every play.

With running backs I think it is near impossible to stop the run at times, I've played games where no matter what I did I could not stop the run. If my opponent choose to run on every play I would seriously consider just dropping out as there is no enjoyment there for me.

You can say it's my fault for not being able to stop the run but I have called all out run blitzes or cover 3 or whatever and still given up huge runs so I was out of ideas.

It's also completely unrealistic, no way a real life team would run in those circumstances, if I have 9 men in the box they would take a deep shot but in this game you can still keep plugging the run and get away with it as I always seem to give up 4 or 5 yards on almost every run.

I just think people need to keep some amount of balance in their play calling. I think this should go for defense as much as offense by the way. Shouldn't come out in the same defense every play either.

Raoul

Ok fair enough. I haven't encountered that problem so far.

Not trying to be pedantic either. If it is a problem then we do need to look at it.

Nelbert

Even with AP I wouldn't be running if 9 were in the box. Not consistently anyway, maybe once or twice and then burn you with Play Action from the Pondernator!

If I'm winning I can chew clock and be productive (i.e. score either a TD or FG) by prodominately running the ball.

The fact I was so poor running the ball was one of the reasons I picked the Vikings, to have a good enough runner that it would make up for my shortcomings (although I'm progressing well in reading defensive run coverage and predicting who will be blocked by who).

I hammered home running for pretty much an entire drive against someone recently (in the boards league) which set up some serious gains with PA passes. Ponder isn't a threat, AP and play action make him one when people overcommit though and that takes time to build.

guns4all

NFL coaches go after weaknesses in the opposition all the time.
If a rookie CB is going up against Megatron, you know that they are going to target him early, and if he can't measure up they are going to throw the ball at him even more.
Its up to the defensive co-ordinator to come up with a way to stop it, whether its making sure he has safety help over the top or switching the CB with another player.
You wont see the offensive coordinator going over telling the opposition what he's going doing.

Im also feeling a bit put out by this post. It appeared 2 hours after my game with Adrian, where i did run the ball quite a bit. It was a very tight game and my thinking was that one mistake (INT) could turn the game. My running game had been a strength in previous games and Ridley was on a hot streak, so it made perfect sense to keep giving him the ball. It also allowed me to set up some good play action as well.

If there was a problem i hoped that a PM could have sorted it, instead of a public airing.
But maybe im reading too much into it, but thats just how this made me feel.

mikemac1

adrian522 wrote: »

No matter what happens in a game you would never see an NFL team run the ball 80% of the time, .

When Jake Delhomme and John Fox were at the Panthers they had a drive from their redzone to score a TD

14 rushing plays in a row from the start of that drive to the end zone


Edit, not a smart post, just it was such a bizarre drive it was talked about for a while

The_Gatsby

If a team in the NFL could get away with running the ball 80% of the time they would. Same way if a team in our league can get away with it, they will. It's up to the defense to stop it IMO. In the NFL there is a lot of no huddle called purely because it disrupts the defense, no because the team calling it is in a hurry to get up the field. So since we're a sim league does that mean we can call a no huddle when ever we like? My point is it has to work both ways.

adrian522

mikemac1 wrote: »

When Jake Delhomme and John Fox were at the Panthers they had a drive from their redzone to score a TD

14 rushing plays in a row from the start of that drive to the end zone


Edit, not a smart post, just it was such a bizarre drive it was talked about for a while

In fairness that is one drive I am talking about over the course of a season. No issue with running the ball like that where the situation calls for it. If 80% of your plays are runs that is a bit different.

Berty44

This is always a difficult question. I am of the opinion, which was referred previously that it's up to the defence to stop the offence even if they are running the same play over and over.

It is difficult to stop the run this version, but it is possible nonetheless.

On the other hand if you use the same plays over and over you are never going to achieve success in the game. When you come up against the top players you need to be able to do loads of stuff on offence or you will inevitably fail. It's in you own interest to try and vary your gameplay, you should be trying to improve your game all the time.

At the end of the day if you win the Super Bowl who is going to even know except a few guys on here. Win in style so your opponent will hang up his controller saying that guy was pretty good rather than saying he was a one trick pony and I just could not stop tonight.

Hit the practice field and work on stopping the run.

Mikeyt086

Berty44 wrote: »

This is always a difficult question. I am of the opinion, which was referred previously that it's up to the defence to stop the offence even if they are running the same play over and over.

It is difficult to stop the run this version, but it is possible nonetheless.

On the other hand if you use the same plays over and over you are never going to achieve success in the game. When you come up against the top players you need to be able to do loads of stuff on offence or you will inevitably fail. It's in you own interest to try and vary your gameplay, you should be trying to improve your game all the time.

At the end of the day if you win the Super Bowl who is going to even know except a few guys on here. Win in style so your opponent will hang up his controller saying that guy was pretty good rather than saying he was a one trick pony and I just could not stop tonight.

Hit the practice field and work on stopping the run.

Squidgy Black

My numbers probably come across a bit skewed, only because I still haven't mastered the art of the run yet though. I couldn't find my run/pass attempts though, only yards gained.