Motors forum at a loss due to bans handed down to regulars

oscarBravo

Cleveland and cabb8ge, stop replying to each other or stop posting on this thread. Your decision.

Cleveland, I've snipped your PM. You were told to report it or drop it, not to post it.

Everyone: post actual feedback about the Motors forum or don't post.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

SNIP

YbFocus

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Maybe that's what it is.

I've been to two meets (February and last Sunday) but I've only 186 posts in the forum this year out of 350-odd total in 12 years of being a member. I read the forum regularly but don't participate and this is part of the reason; I just don't feel comfortable posting all that much amongst the regulars. Nice guys IRL sure, but even at the meet there was a distinct split of groups and anybody who denies it wasn't there.

Yes I can also say that there was a split in the groups, it seemed to be petrol bmw owners and everyone else

I on the other hand have 1000 motors forum posts in about a year, I'm on most nights.
Your no less accepted than anyone else from my perspective anyway T virus.

TouchingVirus

YbFocus wrote: »

Yes I can also say that there was a split in the groups, it seemed to be petrol bmw owners and everyone else

I on the other hand have 1000 motors forum posts in about a year, I'm on most nights.
Your no less accepted than anyone else from my perspective anyway T virus.

Yeah, I'm not saying I didn't or don't feel accepted at all; it was a grand day out and I will go again. When I need to I will post in motors, I'm not afraid to. It's that I'm just not incredibly comfortable dropping in and shooting the breeze with the other regulars, in that regards it's always felt a bit like a closed shop to me personally.

I'll admit my general Boards.ie activity has taken a nose dive in the last few months, it's the last place I want to spend my evenings sometimes, but I felt like this for a while now and my feelings on it are documented here in Feedback. I'm a man of a few problems but not many solutions which is why I suggested killing the chat thread for a bit to see how that goes.

YbFocus

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not saying I didn't or don't feel accepted at all; it was a grand day out and I will go again. When I need to I will post in motors, I'm not afraid to. It's that I'm just not incredibly comfortable dropping in and shooting the breeze with the other regulars, in that regards it's always felt a bit like a closed shop to me personally.

I'll admit my general Boards.ie activity has taken a nose dive in the last few months, it's the last place I want to spend my evenings sometimes, but I felt like this for a while now and my feelings on it are documented here in Feedback. I'm a man of a few problems but not many solutions which is why I suggested killing the chat thread for a bit to see how that goes.

I can see where your coming from bit for real regulars it's a good way to chat and keep in touch. I could never agree with the opinion of closing it.
By the closure of the chat thread I think a lot more would drop away.
I usually answer plenty of questions asked through the threads during the evening while I chat everyone in the chat thread.

MugMugs

I think that this thread has veered into the ditch with it's €25 Chinese brand tyres*.

It started over discussion of banned users on thread.

It shouldn't be allowed. They can't defend themselves or speak up for themselves so you shouldn't have the right any of you to discuss them and that statement is made irrespective of my feelings on the named posters. I have reported posts in the past discussing banned users and quite simply gave up because nothing (in my view) was being done about it.

Then it was regarding the "Chat Thread" and a knee jerk reaction to it's brief closure.

I intimated that it should be closed because of the clique that forms. I stand by that statement and I do so for the reasons outlined in my previous thread in this very forum.

The "clique" despite it's occupants in my view is having an impact on the main forum. The "fun and banter" has spread out into the rest of the forum like a virus and is prevalent in pretty much any thread that takes traction in that forum and it frustrates the hell out of me to see. Why? We've lost good members like it or not as a direct result of that thread. People have either closed accounts, got banned or just stopped posting and I blame that thread.

Some of you may or may not know it but I enjoyed the previous Off Topic thread and canvassed heavily to have it reopened after it's closure.

I PM'd the mods daily and Limerick Man I am sure can testify to that and has my full permission to post them if he still has them. But it's turned into a kindergarten. It's a Motor's forum where everything but Motors is discussed in that thread. Other forums exist for that kind of chat.

I agree that there is a great sense of "community" in the forum but I think it has been completely over taken by people becoming too friendly and I really feel it needs to be stopped. I've made friends from 47. I've met people personally and go for a few pints etc but I keep that friendship masked when posting and especially when answering a query to a new user. They don't need to know that I am friends with somebody and they certainly won't get a running joke of "My friend lives in the boot of his Octavia"

I couldn't care less if people are in a "clique" but what I do care about is Motors and the rubbish being kicked up by "cliques" in other threads.

Ironically*, this thread is going the same way as the Chat Thread(s)

Addendum : I'd really welcome feedback from Motors mods on everything that has been said in this thread too. They moderate the community after all. Their feedback on points raised in this thread is critical.

rovoagho

Beasty wrote: »

In the Cycling forum we have dealt with the major recurring topics by starting megathreads on them (helmets, the Bike to Work scheme and stolen bikes being examples). Anyone starting a new thread gets it merged into the megathread. In the case of the Bike to Work Scheme, which is a "technical" topic, we have set out all the relevant rules in the first few posts

We then link to these threads from our FAQ section, along with other long running topics (such as lighting, the Cycling video megathread). Basically anyone who is sick of those topics can stay out of the thread - there are still plenty of posters that will help out those with genuine questions on the topics

I think Motors has a number threads linked via the FAQ's and others in stickies but perhaps posters need a bit more steer on a smaller number of topics with proactive merging/redirecting - that way posters generally get the message after a while

There you go, that's how it's done.

Honestly, the way some of ye go on, you'd think this was all fresh new ground, an exploration of new policy, when in reality discussions about forum policy first started 3.5 decades ago.

EDIT: I'd give anything for a Drivers forum, to the side of Motors. Namby-pamby holier-than-thou high-horsers need not apply.

LoLth

rovoagho wrote: »

EDIT: I'd give anything for a Drivers forum, to the side of Motors. Namby-pamby holier-than-thou high-horsers need not apply.

why would the Vatican Doped-Nag Jockey club post in a motors forum?

LoLth

as MugMugs has posted, this thread has been meandering quite a bit. Its not so much Feedback as "lets list stuff we dont like about...."

Its useful and I will direct the mods to have a read but its not really going anywhere overall. The OP was answered, and the subsequent topics have really just been driven by user arguments being carried over from the motors forum.

I'll leave this thread open overnight and review whether or not to close it in the morning.

TestTransmission

MugMugs wrote: »

Addendum : I'd really welcome feedback from Motors mods on everything that has been said in this thread too. They moderate the community after all. Their feedback on points raised in this thread is critical.

Honestly?

1.this thread is embarrassing and basically demonstrates the issues I believe exist within motors.

2.I'd rather the chat thread closed as I feel it adds nothing to the forum.

3. People don't get banned hastily , discussions go on for a long time and everything is taken into consideration.We're not out here to ban people and I believe any recent banning has been just and called for.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

LoLth wrote: »

as MugMugs has posted, this thread has been meandering quite a bit. Its not so much Feedback as "lets list stuff we dont like about...."

Its useful and I will direct the mods to have a read but its not really going anywhere overall. The OP was answered, and the subsequent topics have really just been driven by user arguments being carried over from the motors forum.

I'll leave this thread open overnight and review whether or not to close it in the morning.

I think the one thing missing is feedback from the motors mods.

Edit, nvm, I see TT posted at the same time as me

Cleveland Hot Pocket

TestTransmission wrote: »

Honestly?

1.this thread is embarrassing and basically demonstrates the issues I believe exist within motors.

2.I'd rather the chat thread closed as I feel it adds nothing to the forum.

3. People don't get banned hastily , discussions go on for a long time and everything is taken into consideration.We're not out here to ban people and I believe any recent banning has been just and called for.

Agree on points 1 & 3

Obviously I have to take issue with point 2 though. Every large forum (and even some smaller ones) have a chat thread. Otherwise there is no community and it is just a bunch of random Q&A

MugMugs

TestTransmission wrote: »

Honestly?

1.this thread is embarrassing and basically demonstrates the issues I believe exist within motors.

2.I'd rather the chat thread closed as I feel it adds nothing to the forum.

3. People don't get banned hastily , discussions go on for a long time and everything is taken into consideration.We're not out here to ban people and I believe any recent banning has been just and called for.

That pretty much says it all.

TestTransmission

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Agree on points 1 & 3

Obviously I have to take issue with point 2 though. Every large forum (and even some smaller ones) have a chat thread. Otherwise there is no community and it is just a bunch of random Q&A

The community existed and was very strong well before any chat thread existed in motors.

Calhoun

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Agree on points 1 & 3

Obviously I have to take issue with point 2 though. Every large forum (and even some smaller ones) have a chat thread. Otherwise there is no community and it is just a bunch of random Q&A

Was there no community before that thread ? I believe there was and it was present in the multiple threads posted.

Motors used to be a forum I regularly browsed as it was generally interesting but not anymore due to numerous points already mentioned on this thread.

Closing the chat thread isn't necessarily a bad thing the community only dies if you let it.

K-9

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Agree on points 1 & 3

Obviously I have to take issue with point 2 though. Every large forum (and even some smaller ones) have a chat thread. Otherwise there is no community and it is just a bunch of random Q&A

They shouldn't spread outside the chat thread though which is a concern raised. I'm not a fan of chat threads, I don't use them and never had to mod them as politics and AH don't allow them and that's the main reason, the thread becomes a clique, spreads outside into the rest of the forum and the clique get a belief that they are more important or worthy and their opinion counts for more.

Scortho

I'd be a fairly regular poster in two other forums, irish economy and accommodation and property.
Neither feel nowhere near as close to a community as motors.
In all three you've got regular posters, but motors feels like you know each other.
Maybe the chat thread needs to be updated with rules as to what is and isn't acceptable for motor enthusiasts to discuss?
As it stands I find it a good place for like minded individuals to come together and discuss off topic stuff.

Or maybe there should be a private motors forum for off topic posts and threads.....

AltAccount

Scortho wrote: »

Maybe the chat thread needs to be updated with rules as to what is and isn't acceptable for motor enthusiasts to discuss?

Like not discussing banned users and their bans? Look how that's worked out.

Rules are hard to implement in a fast-moving thread, especially if there's dissent - that gathers momentum fast!

Scortho

AltAccount wrote: »

Like not discussing banned users and their bans? Look how that's worked out.

Rules are hard to implement in a fast-moving thread, especially if there's dissent - that gathers momentum fast!

You cant give out to users for being curious as to where certain users have gone too.
It isnt the first time that user has came on and asked where is rj gone.
Likewise a few users came on and asked where 166man has gone too.
Naturally when you say a user has been banned other users come on and say what for?
Maybe it should be added to the motor charter, dont discuss bans at all. :mad:

You also have a none of this kind of attitude from the mods when a ban is discussed.

AltAccount

Scortho wrote: »

You cant give out to users for being curious as to where certain users have gone too.
It isnt the first time that user has came on and asked where is rj gone.
Likewise a few users came on and asked where 166man has gone too.
Naturally when you say a user has been banned other users come on and say what for?
Maybe it should be added to the motor charter, dont discuss bans at all. :mad:

You also have a none of this kind of attitude from the mods when a ban is discussed.

People are curious or start sniping or trolling or whatever, but in a fast thread like Motors Chat by the time a mod has posted a "stop please" post or cleaned up any user posts, the conversation's already rolling

People are saying "sorry, I didn't see your warning before I posted", other people are replying but the mod can't really infract them because they let the first guy away with it.

Another warning post, several more infractable posts who didn't see (or ignored) the warning post. Things escalate quickly, someone gets banned, others complain, another banning and then the thread gets closed before all hell breaks loose.

I'm pretty sure it's a sitewide rule that discussing bans, certainly mod instructions, isn't allowed. Even in DRP you can't bring up other people's bans to defend your position or why you feel you shouldn't get banned.

cabb8ge

I think many not post anymore as people tired of certain posters always speaking of their own car. Someone come along "is Mondeo good car, €10k budget", than someone say buy 535d. Than someone elese comealong oh your 535d a beast. than lots of lol and pat on back. Or MX5, oh buy MX5 for weekend do do do. I not even start on Alfa.

Chat thread not the problem, people who take monopoly is. Also rules in chatthread not followed. Mention of nissandoctor or whoever else no harm, people miss the quality input. forum worse for all the poo talk
Post above about escalation quickly make sense. lot of time wrong people infractedmmaybe

Big Nasty

Now what have we learned from this thread so far?

Perma-banned users will not be re-instated (quelle surprise) as they were banned for good reason, after numerous chances. You can't expect admins to be held to ransom to try and get banned users re-instated either. That's just never gonna happen.

Some posters, to include a few good and knowledgeable posters, either close their accounts or stop posting. That can be unfortunate but it's nobody's business bar their own why they choose to do this. Although losing good posters to bans or other means is unfortunate no individual poster is indispensable. The show must (and will) go on. That's life!

Lastly, Motors seems to appear to not-so-regular users as cliquish. I would agree, however it's the same on any major forum, especially the chat threads. I wouldn't dream of jumping in to any of the chat threads in other boards forums I browse either to be fair. That's a boards.ie problem though, not solely a Motors problem. That said I believe chat threads have their place and I would hate to see the chat thread removed from Motors. I'm sure regular posters in any of the other forums that have chat threads would feel the same.

Most posters on the Motors forum are very helpful, ok we've got the odd 'devils advocate' aka sh1t-stirrer, but for the most part the regular users are very decent people (apart from the 'yes men' and 'google experts' of course ). I've seen unbelievable offers of help to users in need from people they have never met but chatted with on the forum. To be honest, most of the d1ckish behaviour on Motors happens when you get a mega-thread, e.g. some news topic that gets discussed at length and the high-horses arrive from every corner of boards climbing over each other to dismiss the previous posters remarks.

I've been an event organiser and forum moderator on a couple of club websites as well as a contributor to boards for five years now, predominantly in the motors forum. One thing I've grown to learn: don't let sh1t people say on the web get to you - most of them you will never even meet in real life so why let a few words on the internet get to you?

One last thing - live and let live. If a thread doesn't interest you, don't contribute to it. If some of the chat in a thread doesn't appeal to you, keep scrolling. What appeals to one will not appeal to the next and that's what keeps it interesting. If we all liked the same thing and had the same opinions the world would be a very boring place. Motors is not a specialist / enthusiasts forum (although there are many enthusiasts contributing), it's a general motoring forum so you have to expect all kinds of threads with all types of contributors and levels of knowledge.

There's a fair few people that seem to be more interested in getting their own way here as opposed to thinking of the community as a whole.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Here here to all that Big Nasty has said above. Sums it up nicely imo.

Truckermal

cabb8ge wrote: »

I think many not post anymore as people tired of certain posters always speaking of their own car. Someone come along "is Mondeo good car, €10k budget", than someone say buy 535d. Than someone elese comealong oh your 535d a beast. than lots of lol and pat on back. Or MX5, oh buy MX5 for weekend do do do. I not even start on Alfa.

Chat thread not the problem, people who take monopoly is. Also rules in chatthread not followed. Mention of nissandoctor or whoever else no harm, people miss the quality input. forum worse for all the poo talk
Post above about escalation quickly make sense. lot of time wrong people infractedmmaybe

Agreed totally either that or buy a Prius because I love my one so everyone should get one..

Cleveland Hot Pocket

TestTransmission wrote: »

The community existed and was very strong well before any chat thread existed in motors.

I'm sure it did, but it is better now (again this is IMHO) with the chat thread than without.

I think that the loss of the regulars mentioned on thread has impacted more than the existence or not of the chat thread.

MugMugs

We're going in circles now. One side for. Other against. Personally I think this falls beyond us now and is up to the powers that be.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

MugMugs wrote: »

We're going in circles now. One side for. Other against. Personally I think this falls beyond us now and is up to the powers that be.

That we are.
Has the thread not been re-opened (And been the most active thread of the last while)?

TouchingVirus

MugMugs wrote: »

We're going in circles now. One side for. Other against. Personally I think this falls beyond us now and is up to the powers that be.

Aye, I've stated my piece on the chat thread - I'm with TestTransmission/MugMugs on closing it off. Everything else is well covered by Mods/Cmods/Admins regarding bannings/losing forum members. I'm out too, whichever direction ye take is grand - that's what feedback is for.

YbFocus

Ok I'll give my final two cents also,

I would hate to see it close, again as it's a hugely social place, even this evening if you read through. People talking about what cars they saw, accidents they saw today, what they're up to this evening, things to be done with the cars.
It's a real group of friends coming together in that thread and it would be awful to see it die out. If there is no off topic kind of area then how can we all keep in contact for meets etc?
That will all die also.

I think it'd be a shame to see it go, maybe the in house stuff flows to other threads sometimes, maybe a rule where any thread other than the chat one remains on topic and focused on providing an answer for the op?

That's just my opinion, I will have no further input and await the results of the admin.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

YbFocus wrote: »

Ok I'll give my final two cents also,

I would hate to see it close, again as it's a hugely social place, even this evening if you read through. People talking about what cars they saw, accidents they saw today, what they're up to this evening, things to be done with the cars.
It's a real group of friends coming together in that thread and it would be awful to see it die out. If there is no off topic kind of area then how can we all keep in contact for meets etc?
That will all die also.

I think it'd be a shame to see it go, maybe the in house stuff flows to other threads sometimes, maybe a rule where any thread other than the chat one remains on topic and focused on providing an answer for the op?

That's just my opinion, I will have no further input and await the results of the admin.

I'd be in favor of this too.
Ok that's me out aswell, think I have contributed enough here :P