Male GSD Neuter or not?

scaredycat

hi all,

I have a gsd, 7 &1/2 months old that I only got last week. We got him mainly as a guard dog and companion as we live in the country and my husband works long hours so I am alone a lot and very nervous. he seems to have settled in well with us and I really adore him...
my only flaw with him is that he is very aggressive towards other dogs... great towards (most) humans, but very aggressive with other dogs. I have him in training classes but he is very stressed and aggressive in there and its making walking him in public very difficult as he tries to make a run for other dogs and not in a good way. The main reason we were thinking of neutering him in 2 weeks time is because we have a lot of cattle in the surrounding fields and I cannot risk him hunting them or worse.

I fear that if I did neuter him, he may turn against me and I would absolutely hate for that to happen.

Any advise greatly appreciated, as I have been told conflicting information so far and I am very confused as to what is the right thing to do.

Thanks

ps the dog was not rescue and previously lived in a town house with tow other male dogs and they got on great (even though one was more dominant)

muddypaws

You've only had him a very short time, he's been taken away from his home and friends and put somewhere new, it will take time for him to settle. You say you have him in training classes, if you only got him last week, how many has he been to?

Why do you think he will turn against you if you have him neutered?

DBB

Hi op,
If a dog is reactive towards other dogs, chances are it's because he's worried/afraid of them, or frustrated by them. Just because he has lived with other dogs doesn't mean he'll be good with all dogs, because as is often the case, it's strange, unknown dogs that are the problem.
Normal obedience classes tend not to address the problem, and in practise, often make dog/dog reactivity worse. Think about it... If he's worried or frustrated by unknown dogs (and these are by far the two main causes of dog/dog aggression) surrounding him with them will send him off the scale!
You're far better off getting one-to-one advice, getting a qualified behaviourist in to develop a gradual, workable plan that works for you and your dog. Chances are that you're wasting your money and time at classes, and would be better investing it in a one-to-one home visit instead.

As for neutering, it may help, but my emphasis is on the word "may". At best, it'll help, but it will not stop the problem behaviour. I certainly wouldn't be racing to neuter a young, large-breed male dog until he's over a year old unless I had no other options. You still have options! Neutering will certainly not curtail any desire he might have to chase the local livestock either. That's a training issue, not a hormonal one!

I'm also unsure as to where you got the idea that neutering him might make him turn on you? I'm sure you got this as well-intentioned advice, but I've never come across a link between neutering a male dog and a consequent appearance of aggression towards humans!

As always, I will warn you that the world of dog behaviour is unregulated, with a consequent abundance if total chancers who'll promise the sun, moon and stars. But there are some very good, qualified and experienced behaviourists about too. If you indicate whereabouts you are, hopefully one of us can recommend one of these to you.

ShaShaBear

As someone with a dog-aggressive dog, I can tell you now that a simple neutering most likely will not fix the problem.

Shadow is terrified of other dogs due to an unprovoked attack by what I believed to be trustworthy dogs within the family when he was about your pup's age. The fight or flight symptoms developed, and Shadow, as a big dog, has opted for fight. He is extremely aggressive toward other dogs in the hopes that it will discourage them from approaching. It's painful for him to be out on walks, and painful for whoever is walking him. We got him neutered, and the ONLY thing it changed was he became totally uninterested in sex.

He's still only a baby, and one week of lessons is not going to change his aggressive behaviour. I would suggest getting in touch with a home-visit behaviourist and they can help you with his interactions with strange dogs on a walk. That's starting out small, and then work your way up to a room full of dogs in a class.

Finally, make sure your property is secure. Neutering won't stop him attacking cattle if he feels like it. My dog is a herder too, and having no testicles hasn't suddenly made him forget he is a collie

Bullseye1

Purely from a growth perspective I would at least wait until he was 2 before considering neutering. The more I've read up on the subject the more I'm convinced not to neuter a dog.

celica00

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Purely from a growth perspective I would at least wait until he was 2 before considering neutering. The more I've read up on the subject the more I'm convinced not to neuter a dog.

as far as i know, that makes no difference, why would you think that?
it actually can have health benefits for the dog too

muddypaws

celica00 wrote: »

as far as i know, that makes no difference, why would you think that?
it actually can have health benefits for the dog too

It can have possible effects on bone growth. It is discussed quite regularly on this forum, and a lot of people that were pro-neutering early have been changing their minds with new research that comes out, and as Bullseye1 says, some are changing their minds completely on whether neutering is beneficial or not.

In my rescue capacity, I would get all dogs neutered as early as possible when they come into us, however, I choose now to allow my own dogs to mature before neutering.

DBB

celica00 wrote: »

as far as i know, that makes no difference, why would you think that?
it actually can have health benefits for the dog too

It absolutely makes a difference. A 2002 paper showed how male Rottweilers, neutered before reaching 1 year old, have a one in four chance of developing osteosarcoma. ONE in FOUR! No thanks!
Link to paper:

http://m.cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/11/11/1434.full

The same, and other researchers have found that other large breeds are far more susceptible to bone cancers when neutered prior to a year old, though the risk isn't quite as high as it is for Rotties. This research has been extremely influential, so much so that I believe that a vet in France can be prosecuted by their Veterinary regulators for castrating Rotties prior to their first birthday.

Does neutering prevent health problems? Sure it can, of course a dog with no testicles will not get testicular cancer! But, as I've posted here before, owners need to be aware that many of the "health benefits" expounded by pro-neutering lobbyists are very overstated. For example, the risk of some cancers increases by a significant factor if the bitch is allowed have a heat or more. But the reality is the the risk of some of these cancers (or indeed, prostate cancer in males) is low to start with. When you multiply it by the risk factor caused by neutering, the risk is still low. That said, for females, spaying them probably has more health benefits than not spaying them does. But this doesn't necessarily apply to male dogs.
Also, the incidence of prostatitis is quite a bit higher in older, neutered male dogs. As are cruciate ligament problems.

fatmammycat

OP, I have a GDS, fully intact male, and I don't feel neutering will at all help your situation, if anything it could worsen it. Testosterone is actually a terrific hormone for the growing dog, and I am leaning more towards the view that it helps create a calmer more confident male dog than not. The confident male dog is is no way aggressive or hard to handle, and it seems to me, less skittish than many of their neutered counterparts (IMO, of course).

Agression like you describe is hard to figure out over the internet and as others have said a good behaviourist would benefit you both, but in my experience, most aggressive behaviours from dogs are not aggessive behaviours at all, but are fear based responses and frustration.
Your dog is still very much a pup, and you have not had him a very long time at all. He's trying to cope as best he can with huge changes and outside stimulous, and barking and lunging is his mechanism. I'd work very hard on building this dog's confidence, and getting him to look to you for a solution on how to behave.
GSDs seem to go through little patches of self doubt as they mature, and consistent behaviour from you will help your dog get over it. A pup is a pup is a pup, your dog might look fully grown, but he's a good year or more away from maturity, and you will see changes in him over the months.
I disagree with flooding dogs so I'd skip the classes at the moment, but if you can operate within your dog's threshold and help build his trust in you, you should do so.
Don't not take him out because you don't like his behaviour, address it, but do so slowly and carefully. Perhaps you know someone with a steady bitch who won't be impressed by his show of teeth. I used to pack walk my dog as a pup, and it was always the older bitches who ignored him and made him watch his ps and qs.
I would also invent in a halti, and train your dog to wear it when walking as it gives a lot of control over his head, and you can distract him with whatever he values without him dragging you around. When training to wear a halti, don't just put it on and hope to walk. Put it on, feed a treat, take it off again, repeat until your dog happily wears it, then graduate to walking with it.
What does your dog most focus on? Food or toys? When my dog was younger, he was obsessed with pulling games, so we did that when out with a simple length of rope, see a dog in the distance, hey look, rope, and gradually he cared less about the dogs and more about what I was doing. Today he is 20 months old and the hounds from hell could be barking in his ear, but if he's in work mode it's like he can't even hear them. He will never be a social butterfly like some dogs, he's too GSD for that, but he knows how to behave around dogs and is untroubled by their behaviour.
(yesterday he had a husky/lab cross puppy of 5 months leaping all over him, even bouncing on his head and although he was exasperated, he never complained once)
This didn't happen over night, it takes time and care and praise and patience, but it's so worth it in the end. We're just back in from a soggy morning's training and towards the end I met a large walking group with labs/collies/ lurchers/boxers and it was a pleasure to be able to stop and have a chat and watch all our dogs meet and greet without a hint of aggression- my guy was actually lying on the ground licking the face off a a lady dog who has taken quite a shine to him. If you had told me that when he went though his own insecure period around 8/10 months I'd have said 'God I hope you're right, but I have my doubts'.
It can be done, don't be daunted. Up the obediance training, train a solid, 'to me' or a 'let's go' and be patient, especially on the days when you think you're making a holy hames of everything. You're not. Enjoy your dog, take it slowly, don't expect too much from a puppy, and make sure your property in properly fenced so he cannot wander.
Best of luck.

celica00

wow, i didnt know that, thanks for pointing that out! I assume that counts for all breeds?