Bord Gais energy bill.

Bavib

A bit of back story.

Myself and my girlfriend moved into a small one bed Apt. in May, and the landlady supplied us with Meter Readings for the Gas/Electricity(through her maintenance guy). I stupidly didn't read the meters myself, although I know how to, and signed up to Board Gais energy based on her reading of 15897.

My girlfriend lived in the apartment until the end of July, coming home for August, and we moved back up at the very Start of September. The bills we received during this period were estimated, and were high based on the usage that could have been clocked up, but I paid them thinking that I'd have credit stored up for when the actual reading was taken.

Little did I fecking know that the actual reading, from August (When the flat was empty) to the 11th Oct would be 3104 units!!! The bill is for €588.08, which is obviously way out.

Now the only thing that I can imagine being at play here is that the maintenance fella gave my landlady the incorrect meter reading, as he also did with the gas which was sorted before it became a problem.

I've emailed my landlady asking for the actual reading from the last tenant to vacate the property(her daughter). My question is the following, what in the name of god should I do tomorrow morning?:mad:

How do I sort this out A.S.A.P?

Bavib

Seems fairly obvious, but just as a note, I am not in fact running a multi-million euro cannabis growing factory out of this apartment, even if I was I'd have space for about three plants before I had to get rid of my couch so thats not what's driving the bill up.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Our last land lady wasn't happy that I wanted to take the readings myself. She couldn't understand why I wouldn't trust her readings. Sigh.

You could try ringing Bord Gais. Explain that you believe you were given the wrong meter reading. I'm sure they could verify the last actual reading (and the date it was read/submitted) before you moved in. It might help you gauge if the reading from your Land Lady was incorrect.
That's where I would start anyway.

After that, could there be faulty wiring in the apt?

Bavib

Rang Bord Gais first thing this morning, and basically unless I can get a new number from the LL for the start of my usage I'm in trouble. The girl on the line said that as the last account was held with Airtricity she wouldn't be able to get the last actual reading from them. I'm not 100% sure if that's correct though?

Aisha Unimportant Rating wrote: »

After that, could there be faulty wiring in the apt?

I doubt it, I took a reading myself today and the usage is only up ~60 units in the week since the actual reading was taken by Bord Gais themselves. That usage seems about right to me for our lifestyle, we've no dryer, no electric radiators/fans or anything like that. The immersion is timed for 1 hour in the mornings, and all the other hot water/heating comes from our gas. Our bills for that are quite small as the place is very 'cosy'. (Tiny and well insulated)

Going by the difference between the reading I got from LL of 15897 and the current reading of 19020 we would be using 156 units a week, not excluding the month the flat was empty. Then when the flat is full for the past week we end up using 60 units a week? Makes no sense like.

I know I should have taken my own readings Aisha Unimportant Rating, I've no one to blame but myself, but I really didn't expect to get screwed over like this.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Next step maybe is to ring Airtricity I guess with your MPRN and see if they can help.

Edit: ESB Networks do the meter readings I believe? Perhaps get onto them, surely they would have a record of the last reading before you moved in.

Bavib wrote: »

...
I know I should have taken my own readings ProjectMoose, I've no one to blame but myself, but I really didn't expect to get screwed over like this.

It was only after I read another thread (similar to yours) on boards a few years back that I decided to start reading the meters myself.

Bavib

Aisha Unimportant Rating wrote: »

ESB Networks do the meter readings I believe? Perhaps get onto them, surely they would have a record of the last reading before you[ /quote]

Great idea!! I'll ring them in the morning, cheers.

Bavib

Bavib wrote: »

Aisha Unimportant Rating wrote: »

ESB Networks do the meter readings I believe? Perhaps get onto them, surely they would have a record of the last reading before you[ /quote]

Great idea!! I'll ring them in the morning, cheers.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Bavib wrote: »

Bavib wrote: »

Aisha Unimportant Rating wrote: »

ESB Networks do the meter readings I believe? Perhaps get onto them, surely they would have a record of the last reading before you[ /quote]

Great idea!! I'll ring them in the morning, cheers.

I believe Data Protection will prevent then giving readings that referred to another customer.

Bavib

Leonardo Microscopic Backpack wrote: »

Bavib wrote: »

Bavib wrote: »

I believe Data Protection will prevent then giving readings that referred to another customer.

You may be right, I've contacted the last tenant(landlady's daughter) and she is quite defensive about the whole issue. She wants scans of my bills MPRN etc. but will not respond to my request to see her own final statement from the apartment to check the cancellation date/meter reading.

There was about a 2-3 month gap between my tenancy here and the last real tenant, with the landlady's daughter living there in between I'm fairly certain she lived there without signing up for electricity, and I'm being billed for her usage also. I suppose I'll have to come around her somehow.

Bavib

And thanks for all the advice so far lads, its great just to chat with someone outside the situation about it. Makes me feel loads better about the whole thing in itself!:)

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Yeah I had mentioned Data Protection issue in my post but removed it. They don't actually need to tell you the last reading. You can give ESB networks your reading and they can at least tell you if you should raise a complaint or if the readings appears to be about right.

Very strange that the last tenant is being very defensive. Maybe go ahead and send a scanned copy of your bill (removing any private details) and continue to investigate via ESB networks and Airtricity. I would still definitely raise a dispute with ESB networks.

Bavib

Just a brief update. Got onto ESB networks who told me the last reading submitted on 22nd Jan 2013 was for 15870. On 6 May 2013 I received a reading from the LL of 15897 which was submitted to the electricity provider. My bills were estimated, based on that original reading, (of 15897) until the most recent billing which shows an actual meter read of 19021 units.

So basically the LL's daughter seems to be claiming that 27 units of electricity were used in the four months of her occupation between Jan and May, and that 3000 have been in the 5 months of my occupation. Doesn't quite add up...:rolleyes:

I'm pressing for a final bill belonged to herself from the property at the moment, and she said she's in the process of getting it for me. I'd hate to wrong anyone like, but I don't want to get screwed either you know? What do ye think?

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Great news that you were able to get the final reading from ESB networks.

Get straight back onto the Land Lady with the information you have. There should be no reason why her daughter cannot provide a copy of her final bill.

foggy_lad

I think you shuld be telling the Landlord that you must get a proper last reading and copy of the last bill from when her daughter left or you will be contacting the PRTB to raise the matter with them!

This LL might not be registered with the PRTB and may not want you rocking that boat.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Did you ever get this sorted Bavib ?

Bavib

Hey ProjectMoose, have started the PRTB process now so I don't want to say anymore about it until the case is heard, just to say it's a fairly strong case at this stage!

Cheers for the concern, I will be straight on here to let ye know once I can say more.

Bavib

Okay so this is a bit of a long winded one.

We sent in our complaint to the PRTB in November and got called up for a hearing at the end of March (our lease was up at the end of April).

Shortly after I was on to ye here, we had an issue whereby a neighbour down the road starting entering our back yard to deposit their rubbish in our bins. The bins were included in the rent, but the backyard was only accessible via a key-coded gate/door type thing and the neighbour was a tenant of the landlady at a different building. The biggest concern was that she entered with her two dogs off the leash, which obviously caused a bit of consternation with our own dog. I left the landlady's daughter a voicemail about it, and got no response. Same thing happened about two weeks later, so I e-mailed asking could she ensure that the back yard was kept private as per our agreement, and also as per the ad for the apartment. She was.....less than helpful. In fact she acted like a spoilt gaill. We told her that we'd lodged a complaint with the PRTB, and she responded by saying that she was coming to carry out an inspection the next afternoon.

Grand says I, more ammo for the hearing. The next day we waited for her until around 13:00, and text her to see where she was....no response. Text again around 15:00 saying that she had said the afternoon, to which she responded "yes I said afternoon meaning after 15:00", which is news to me. She turned up around 16:00, carried out a 5 minute inspection (the flat is tiny) and fecked off. There was a fair bit of e-mails sent back and forth, mainly centred around access to the backyard at this time.

We didn't have to deal much with the landlady or her daughter for the rest of the tenancy, but on the day that the PRTB letter arrived calling us for the hearing (the same day she received a letter from them) the daughter turned up in our back yard with a camera.....and with her dog on a lead.

Now at this point I was thinking "Am I mental, or is she possibly trying to get a video/photo of my dog barking at hers?". - I know that sounds insane, but the woman lied so much to us at this point, and so anything was possible like. Anyway, we decided to take 'minutes' of what happened that day and e-mailed them to ourselves as evidence should we need it.

Our day in the PRTB came, and it appeared as though the other side had submitted no evidence. On the day itself they claimed to have submitted evidence a week before, which was actually after the cut off point, and went mental at the adjudicator over it not being present. Mistake number 1. The adjudicator (Who was super professional) asked us if we'd mind the evidence being submitted on the day, we said we'd no objection, so she presented us with a letter from the daughter and a Wikipedia article on our dog's breed. (Which is a Weimaraner). Like seriously, she presented a wikipedia article as evidence at the adjudication, it was beyond hilarious.

Now, when I honed in on the electricity issue originally, the landlady's daughter had tried to pass it off to us that the tenant in the 1st floor apartment had actually signed up to two electricity accounts, one for upstairs and one for our apartment and this was why she couldn't produce any bills for her own occupation of the apartment. Coincidentally enough this tenant had moved out the week before she told us. I later found him through LinkedIn (Why did she give me his full name?) and he confirmed to me that this was total BS. We presented his e-mails as evidence, along with our contact from the ESB regarding the readings and a google cached copy of the advert for the apartment. All in all we'd a fairly watertight case, and then the eijit of a daughter put more wind in our sails.

In the letter to the PRTB, presented on the day of the hearing, she made three claims

1. That she had a second agent with her the day of the inspection, and that's why she was so late.
2. That she did not say "The landlord will be in touch" at the end of the inspection, which we took as a threating/punitive statement.
3. That our dog was "roaming freely and vicously barking" on the day that she turned up with her dog.

Imagine, my face when I responded to her:

"I would like to submit my own evidence, I have in my pocket here an audio recording of the original inspection which proves categorically that your first two statements regarding the inspection are lies, and I have an e-mail from my partner stating clearly that you arrived unannounced into our back yard the day that the PRTB called this meeting with your dog on the lead. My partner noted that our dog was in the living room during your unusual visit, and I can now say that I fully believe you went there that day to try and get a reaction out of us. Which did not work"

Oh my god her face, the b1tch, her face. It was just so beautiful, like, her parents were there and I was saying, I have evidence right here, that proves you're a liar. And a moron for that matter, why lie about the inspection in the first place? Why not just say "Ah, I said the afternoon, I got delayed." So anyway, she retracted her statements regarding the inspection, and as tears welled in her vindictive little eyes I nearly khaked myself laughing. Sweet sweet revenge.

The adjudicator ruled in our favour, and asked us how much did we think we were owed for the bill. I said look, its only around €220 (which was a low-ball estimate) and she awarded the sum to us. To be paid no later than the 28th April.

We organised a move out, and requested someone come to do a checkout on the apartment. The landlady's daughter suggested the checkout be completed by "an independent agent" - the same fella she had said came with her for the inspection in the letter. Now at this point, I was certain some shennanigans were under way and so I was highly suspicious of yer man when he landed. He proceeded to open the sparkling clean oven, and claim it was dirty, he then went into the bedroom, opened the again, clean drawers, and claimed they were dusty. Jesus the guy was clearly trying to screw us, what do? I didn't want to go back to the PRTB again to get my deposit out of these fkers, so I whipped out my iPhone and said "I'm filming the rest of this inspection for future use, as you are lying about what you see before you."

Next press he open "Oh now this is much cleaner". I sh1t you not, it was like a pantomime. The entire rest of the apartment was "oh yeah this is very good now" "oh this is much better" etc. So when he finishes (bear in mind I've the camera squarely in his face for the entire yoke, I say "Now, X, go back and point out the things you'd a problem with." Oh my god his face was nearly as good as the face puled by yer one in the PRTB meeting. I made him go back and open the oven "Ah can you see what I mean there" (pointing at a sparkling oven) "No I can't, can you show me where its dirty?" "It's hard to see in this light" "Daylight?" "Yes." What a moron.

Three weeks later, no sign of the deposit or the €220, I write her an e-mail "Dear Gaill, where's my money?".

She comes back with the predictable at this stage
"There was a load of problems with the apartment, x , y, z and a stain on the carpet which you are more than welcome to come and inspect."

I responded with a list of all the lies she has told us, and pointed out the fact that since she is so simple she's fit for anything, and that the house had been vacated 3 weeks prior with no mention of any problems, the next place she would see me was in court. I pointed out that I had a video of the entire inspection etc. etc.

She actually responded by saying "I have never met anyone like ye before" and asked for an address for the cheque, I gave her my parcel motel address, because she's a psycho, and got my cheque the next week.

We're delighted the whole thing is over, but to be honest had we not gone to the PRTB over our bill we would have never have gotten our deposit back. I now know that we were the 4th tenants of theirs at least, in the space of 12 months, whose deposit they attempted to retain. I guess you win some you loose some.

A sincere and a heartfelt thanks to ye all for your concern and advice, it went a long way to steadying my hand when I felt like quitting, I appreciate it boardsies!

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Well done Bavib!

I do have a general question. If the court rules in your favour, is there any record of such a ruling against a landlord/lady available to the public? Basically is there any consequence for him/her?

SuperS54

Thanks for the update Bavib, very entertaining as well, although I understand it wouldn't have been so funny for you at the time. Well done on sticking to your guns and remaining so professional, would love to have been at the hearing!

For PTRB results, you can check here;

http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/prtb-dispute-outcomes

Bavib

Hey ProjectMoose, basically every PRTB finding is accessible here: http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/prtb-dispute-outcomes

You search via keyword or landlord name. I for one will search for the name of any new landlords before I sign a contract in the future, as the crowd we just had already had a ruling against them. Shame, but you live and you learn.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Thanks Bavib. That really is a great resource for anyone renting. Bookmarked

Cuddlesworth

Aisha Unimportant Rating wrote: »

I do have a general question. If the court rules in your favour, is there any record of such a ruling against a landlord/lady available to the public? Basically is there any consequence for him/her?

Yes, you can find PRTB judgements if you google the landlord name/apartment address. I have in the past chosen to not move into two apartments after seeing PRTB judgments against the landlord.