National Transport Authority Fares Determinations for 2014

ballooba

Stevek101 wrote: »

Presumably the weekly cap x4 is cheaper than 30 day?

30 day rambler is non-consecutive days. Could last you 6 weeks or more.

LXFlyer

Uriel. wrote: »

I am an annual tax saver ticket holder, despite the increase, I still think that bus commuting is cheaper for me than driving. Gap probably has narrowed but still cheaper, so I will most likely be renewing my ticket in January.


However, apart from the inflexibilities and other cons of public transport generally (over private car), I am becoming more and more disillusioned with the DB service in recent times. I don't know whether it's a management issue, a driver issue, something else or a combination, but I have experienced a significant dip in the service.

So much so that 5 weeks ago I began to keep a diary of the problems I have experienced.

On my inward bound journey, I board the bus at the 4th stop on the route. Approx 1.1 km (Gmaps) from terminus to stop. One set of pedestrian only traffic lights, one turn, no roundabouts. In the last 5 weeks I have recorded

1. 2 x 11mins Late
2. 2x 7mins late
3. 5 x 5mins late

This is late as in, due time +, and/or allowing a 4min journey time from 1st stop to 4th stop.

While I appreciate there is a delay in boarding times etc. I think the above delays are excessive - but the problem while frustrating is not diabolical.

However, my biggest problem has been the outbound journey from the city center.
I take the bus at the terminus (first stop).

In the past 5 weeks there has been 6 instances of a scheduled bus not showing up (scheduled on timetable and showing on Real Time Board).
And one instance of 2 buses in a row not showing up (plus the third being 5 mins late).

While I didn't discuss with the driver themselves, other passengers queried the matter on some of the occasions, and the reply was that the driver didn't know as it wasn't his bus that went "missing".

I leave my house before 7.30am and don't get home until after 10:30. My day is long enough without adding 15 - 30 mins extra, standing around wondering where a scheduled bus is.

While, like any individual, I don't like paying increased fares, it is the lack of quality service that I fear will be the deciding factor for me moving away from Public transport.

That sort of performance is unacceptable - have you got in touch with Dublin Bus with the details - I wouldn't let that go without following it up with them in the first instance, and the NTA in the second.

LXFlyer

ballooba wrote: »

30 day rambler is non-consecutive days. Could last you 6 weeks or more.

I wasn't referring to that ticket - I'm referring to the 30 day bus/luas ticket, which is consecutive, and which is listed for withdrawal sometime in 2014.

Uriel.

lxflyer wrote: »

That sort of performance is unacceptable - have you got in touch with Dublin Bus with the details - I wouldn't let that go without following it up with them in the first instance, and the NTA in the second.

No not yet. This problem arose early last year, but to a much lesser degree and I called DB about it. To be quite honest about it was a waste of a call.

This time, and because of the problems being at a bigger scale, I am keeping a diary of the buses and exact times etc.. and I plan to write formally to DB management and the Minister towards the end of the year.

Mousewar

My bus fare goes from €2.80 to €3.05.
I don't think anything has ever made me more angry than that 5c.

On the plus side for Dublin Bus, I'm sure this will really solve their falling passenger number problem.

Stevek101

ballooba wrote: »

30 day rambler is non-consecutive days. Could last you 6 weeks or more.

The ticket lxflyer is referring to is consecutive.

Stevek101

Mousewar wrote: »

My bus fare goes from €2.80 to €3.05.
I don't think anything has ever made me more angry than that 5c.

On the plus side for Dublin Bus, I'm sure this will really solve their falling passenger number problem.

The Leap card has been out for over 2 years...

LXFlyer

Mousewar wrote: »

My bus fare goes from €2.80 to €3.05.
I don't think anything has ever made me more angry than that 5c.

On the plus side for Dublin Bus, I'm sure this will really solve their falling passenger number problem.

Get a leap card - your fare will be €2.50.

LXFlyer

Uriel. wrote: »

No not yet. This problem arose early last year, but to a much lesser degree and I called DB about it. To be quite honest about it was a waste of a call.

This time, and because of the problems being at a bigger scale, I am keeping a diary of the buses and exact times etc.. and I plan to write formally to DB management and the Minister towards the end of the year.

I would start with Dublin Bus, follow that up with the NTA if you don't get a satisfactory response, and then finally follow up with the Minister if you don't get a satisfactory response from the NTA.

But that level of performance is not on.

Mousewar

lxflyer wrote: »

Get a leap card - your fare will be €2.50.

I did. I used it on the dart once. Machine was broken at my destination and it charged me the max fare. Spent the next day on hold trying to get a refund. Failed. Threw out Leap card.

jacko1

LEAP is really the only way to go

Luas leap fares are by and large untouched and have actually gone down in some cases

LXFlyer

Mousewar wrote: »

I did. I used it on the dart once. Machine was broken at my destination and it charged me the max fare. Spent the next day on hold trying to get a refund. Failed. Threw out Leap card.

Well I would suggest that you get a new one.

munchkin_utd

Mousewar wrote: »

My bus fare goes from €2.80 to €3.05.
I don't think anything has ever made me more angry than that 5c.

On the plus side for Dublin Bus, I'm sure this will really solve their falling passenger number problem.

it should have gone up more if you still are considering paying in cash.

Mousewar

munchkin_utd wrote: »

it should have gone up more if you still are considering paying in cash.

No, they won't have to concern themselves with my money in any form.

LXFlyer

Mousewar wrote: »

No, they won't have to concern themselves with my money in any form.

I think that to dispose of a LEAP card based on one single journey and continue paying higher fares really is somewhat daft.

What happened should not have happened, but nor should you have been paying those higher fares in the first place.

You could have (and still can) saved money with a 10 Journey ticket.

Mousewar

lxflyer wrote: »

I think that to dispose of a LEAP card based on one single journey and continue paying higher fares really is somewhat daft.

What happened should not have happened, but nor should you have been paying those higher fares in the first place.

You could have (and still can) saved money with a 10 Journey ticket.

Fair enough. I was just making a point that that little 5c tagged onto the 3euro was very annoying.

munchkin_utd

Mousewar wrote: »

Fair enough. I was just making a point that that little 5c tagged onto the 3euro was very annoying.

i get you now.

Still, the travel 90 is 25euro for 10 journeys so you can travel for 30c cheaper per journey than pre price rise, and still not bother with a leap card.

devnull

Mousewar wrote: »

Fair enough. I was just making a point that that little 5c tagged onto the 3euro was very annoying.

Before the leap card came out I was always of the opinion that cash fares should be rounded to stop fares like €3.05, and instead they should be rounded to €3 for instance to aid with dwell time and people looking for 5c coins constantly.

However now the Leap Card is out we should be doing all we can to push people on to this to make journeys quicke and faster in the future, and if people are annoyed about the 5c so much, they know what to do.

loyatemu

devnull wrote: »

Before the leap card came out I was always of the opinion that cash fares should be rounded to stop fares like €3.05, and instead they should be rounded to €3 for instance to aid with dwell time and people looking for 5c coins constantly.

However now the Leap Card is out we should be doing all we can to push people on to this to make journeys quicke and faster in the future, and if people are annoyed about the 5c so much, they know what to do.

but the leap card is slower than cash and increases dwell time...

Vahevala

The combined bus and luas monthly cost is getting way too high and yet Dublin Bus don't give a stuff It really is sickening..

LXFlyer

Mousewar wrote: »

Fair enough. I was just making a point that that little 5c tagged onto the 3euro was very annoying.

I'd agree with you - but as the others said really people just need to stop using cash!!

AlekSmart

Mousewar wrote: »

Fair enough. I was just making a point that that little 5c tagged onto the 3euro was very annoying.

It is worth noting that Dublin Bus SOUGHT an increase to €3.00 but the NTA decided to alter this to €3.05.

hmmm

No fare increase should have been given to DB until such time as they got their costs under control. Paying passenger numbers will fall, and we'll be back here again next year with the geniuses scratching their head and looking for another large increase.

the groutch

I assume the 5c was an intentional ploy to p!ss people off enough to use Leap or prepaid instead.

cdebru

hmmm wrote: »

No fare increase should have been given to DB until such time as they got their costs under control. Paying passenger numbers will fall, and we'll be back here again next year with the geniuses scratching their head and looking for another large increase.

Or alternatively the government could pay the company what they owe them for the PSO or indeed the free travel scheme either one would do.

cdebru

Vahevala wrote: »

The combined bus and luas monthly cost is getting way too high and yet Dublin Bus don't give a stuff It really is sickening..

Seriously it is a bus and luas ticket, the RPA( luas) applied for an increase in the price of the ticket as well, why are you blaming Dublin bus ??

cson

Free travel pass is the elephant in the room here for all CIE companies. Should be a standard 50c or €1 charge per journey.

ballooba

cson wrote: »

Free travel pass is the elephant in the room here for all CIE companies. Should be a standard 50c or €1 charge per journey.

Are there actually any reliable statistics for how much these are used?

Lifelike

Rambler tickets up by 10%! :mad: Honestly, when are all of these increases going to stop?

Carawaystick

Did the nta carry out any public consultation regarding these price hikes?
There has been no mention in this thread afaics

hfallada

ballooba wrote: »

Are there actually any reliable statistics for how much these are used?

Well if you get on a bus, I say roughly 20-30% of passengers are flashing some form of free travel card. I cant understand why a student ticket is 25% off full fare in ireland, when every where else in Europe its 50%(as students struggle to pay for transport as most cant find a job). But yet OAPs pay nothing for public transport regardless of their ability to pay.

Cookie_Monster

Carawaystick wrote: »

Did the nta carry out any public consultation regarding these price hikes?

to what end, no one in the public is going to say they want higher fares for a worse service, it's not like such feedback could accomplish anything as far as the NTA are concerned.

cuckoo

hfallada wrote: »

Well if you get on a bus, I say roughly 20-30% of passengers are flashing some form of free travel card. .

A lot of them are flashing something, but it isn't a legit free travel pass that's been issued to them. Most drivers I've observed are not checking the passes - loss of revenue there straight away.

Victor

loyatemu wrote: »

but the leap card is slower than cash and increases dwell time...

Not when paying the maximum fare.

Jamie2k9

cuckoo wrote: »

A lot of them are flashing something, but it isn't a legit free travel pass that's been issued to them. Most drivers I've observed are not checking the passes - loss of revenue there straight away.

The point is they are used a lot, and the % given will be about right. Took a train today to Cork and you could fill at least 2 carriages with pass holders. It's madness, pity the Gov didn't touch this and left them keep the telephone.

LXFlyer

Carawaystick wrote: »

Did the nta carry out any public consultation regarding these price hikes?
There has been no mention in this thread afaics

Consultations refer to investment projects/changes in the service.

Fares unfortunately do not go to public consultation.

Ultimately this is to a degree about the government cutting expenditure and as such expecting both the operating companies and the public to bear more of the cost of running public transport in Ireland.

Polar101

Interesting that the Dublin Bus LEAP cap will be €27.50, which is the same price as the new 5-day Rambler price. That just means free weekend travel for me.

ballooba

hfallada wrote: »

Well if you get on a bus, I say roughly 20-30% of passengers are flashing some form of free travel card. I cant understand why a student ticket is 25% off full fare in ireland, when every where else in Europe its 50%(as students struggle to pay for transport as most cant find a job). But yet OAPs pay nothing for public transport regardless of their ability to pay.

I do literally mean reliable statistics. It seems to suit Dublin Bus not to have reliable statistics for this. Is there a reason why they don't measure usage? I am assuming they don't.

paulieb

ballooba wrote: »

I do literally mean reliable statistics. It seems to suit Dublin Bus not to have reliable statistics for this. Is there a reason why they don't measure usage? I am assuming they don't.

anywhere between 10% to 90% on a bus would have a free travel pass, depending on the time and route.
not uncommon for 20 people to be on a bus with only 1 or 2 paying a fare.
fares going up next month, subsidy cut for next year in the budget, no end in sight to the issuing of free travel passes, those who still pay better get used to paying more and more each year.

carlmango11

Victor wrote: »

Not when paying the maximum fare.

The majority don't pay this though.

bk

paulieb wrote: »

fares going up next month, subsidy cut for next year in the budget, no end in sight to the issuing of free travel passes, those who still pay better get used to paying more and more each year.

Those of us who pay are increasingly leaving the service!

I know I'm using my bike far more now. I know others who are using their car more!!

Stevek101

bk wrote: »

Those of us who pay are increasingly leaving the service!

I know I'm using my bike far more now. I know others who are using their car more!!

I'd have to agree with you on that one. I will not be purchasing another 30 day ticket especially at the new price of 137!

ballooba

paulieb wrote: »

anywhere between 10% to 90% on a bus would have a free travel pass, depending on the time and route.
not uncommon for 20 people to be on a bus with only 1 or 2 paying a fare.
fares going up next month, subsidy cut for next year in the budget, no end in sight to the issuing of free travel passes, those who still pay better get used to paying more and more each year.

I'm not sure why you quoted my post. You certainly haven't answered my question. I am not saying you should have an answer, or anyone else. Just not sure why you quoted my post.

Idbatterim

was just reading about the fare increases this morning, its laughable / scandalous, I dont drive due to the appalling (in most cases) transport here, but with their total disregard for you who are paying for this sham, Id move away from it, if it were in any way feasible...

Carawaystick

lxflyer wrote: »

Consultations refer to investment projects/changes in the service.

Fares unfortunately do not go to public consultation.

Ultimately this is to a degree about the government cutting expenditure and as such expecting both the operating companies and the public to bear more of the cost of running public transport in Ireland.

Increasing public transport fares will affect the environment by increasing private transport usage.
As the state is implementing this adverse impact to the environment, the people should be consulted.
That's fairly clear in the second pillar of the Aarhus convention.

LXFlyer

Carawaystick wrote: »

Increasing public transport fares will affect the environment by increasing private transport usage.
As the state is implementing this adverse impact to the environment, the people should be consulted.
That's fairly clear in the second pillar of the Aarhus convention.

They were consulted - we had a general election. ;-)

I'm no happier about this than anyone, but I think the line has to be drawn now in terms of subsidy reduction.

dowlingm

Short of abolishing the Labour Court and a stack of labour relations legislation I'm not sure how DB can get their costs to where people on this board want them. As for talk of Swords Express etc - will we see the private companies rush to take on DB's routes which have a history of antisocial activity and against which the Company has no enforcement powers even if the Courts would vindicate them? I doubt it!

ballooba

At this point people will gladly cut off their nose to spite their face. It's the good people in Dublin Bus who do their best (i.e. the majority) that I feel sorry for. They've been screwed as much as the rest of us. But enough is enough.

dowlingm

AlekSmart wrote: »

It is worth noting that Dublin Bus SOUGHT an increase to €3.00 but the NTA decided to alter this to €3.05.

That's kinda bonkers. Can DB refuse? The extra 5c is probably going to be a balls for both back office cash handling and dwell time.

Victor

Can we stick to the topic at hand.

Moderator