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Is wearing make-up a 'betrayal'?

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    #32
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    ScumLord wrote: »
    I didn't admit anything. :D make up seems stupid to me
    You said it looked stupid, but you know it doesn't at all when applied well and only in small amounts - and can actually look fantastic.
    The whole concept is daft as far as I'm concerned
    It's really simple: it makes them look better.
    If women didn't wear makeup they'd still have men hanging off them.
    No we would not!
    We don't care.
    Oh but you do. If there are two women and the one wearing make-up looks better to you, then you care. (I wasn't talking about perfume btw - I personally don't see the point in perfume either).


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    #33
    BBDBB
    Registered Users Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭BBDBB


    surely makeup has more of an impact upon the self image of the girl wearing it, if she feels good about herself, confident that she is looking her best then she is much more likely to appeal to men regardless of how she actually looks because she conveys confidence stemming from that self belief


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    #34
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    You said it looked stupid, but you know it doesn't at all when applied well and only in small amounts - and can actually look fantastic.
    No, it all looks silly. :pac:
    It's really simple: it makes them look better.
    Debatable!
    No we would not!
    Yes you would. If you were right the human race wouldn't be here. A mans job is to impregnate a woman. We can't fight that urge and have no desire to. Any holes a goal at the end of the day.
    Oh but you do. If there are two women and the one wearing make-up looks better to you, then you care. (I wasn't talking about perfume btw - I personally don't see the point in perfume either).
    Who cares? The other woman? Aren't you just confirming what I said in the beginning?


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    #35
    Legs.Eleven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Legs.Eleven


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Because that's the way nature is, just like men try to be the alpha in a group through domination women use their aesthetic prowess to rise up the ladder to alpha female. All humans have basic animal behaviour at their core.




    When I was younger, I used to get dressed up to go out to attract men (and have fun but meeting and flirting with fellas was a big part of it). I put on some make up and wore low cut tops so men I liked would like me back and it often worked. Other women barely registered on my radar beyond admiring what the odd one was wearing. I spent the night hoping I'd see a guy I fancied and something would happen with him, so I altered my appearance so that would be more likely to happen. You think all those women you see on a Saturday night in tight clothes, make up, high heels AREN'T looking for the attention of men? Really?


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    #36
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Legs.Eleven wrote: »
    You think all those women you see on a Saturday night in tight clothes, make up, high heels AREN'T looking for the attention of men? Really?
    No, and I already said there's that element to it but at the same time a woman will dress the same if she's going out with just her friends or are we to take it that if a woman is dressed attractively that she could only want male attention? I'm pretty sure in a different thread we'd be arguing that women don't dress just for men.


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    #37
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    ScumLord wrote: »
    No, it all looks silly. :pac:
    No it doesn't "all" - and you know it doesn't. Lots of the women you fancy are wearing a bit of make-up and you don't think they look silly. Stop lying now.
    Debatable!
    Back to the "Make-up is only clown paint" mindset. Well applied and subtle and in small amounts... there's no debate really. Natalie Portman, Michelle Pfeiffer - all those ladies in the pictures that make men melt... are wearing well-applied make-up.
    Yes you would. If you were right the human race wouldn't be here. A mans job is to impregnate a woman. We can't fight that urge and have no desire to. Any holes a goal at the end of the day.
    But a man will still have his preferences in terms of looks. I'm not talking about the Neanderthal age anyway, I'm talking about 2013.
    Who cares? The other woman? Aren't you just confirming what I said in the beginning?
    The guy who fancies more the woman wearing make-up cares. Make-up has obviously made a difference to him despite you pretending make-up looks silly and makes no difference. ;)


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    #38
    Bullseye
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 45 ✭Bullseye


    Legs.Eleven wrote: »
    When I was younger, I used to get dressed up to go out to attract men (and have fun but meeting and flirting with fellas was a big part of it). I put on some make up and wore low cut tops so men I liked would like me back and it often worked. Other women barely registered on my radar beyond admiring what the odd one was wearing. I spent the night hoping I'd see a guy I fancied and something would happen with him, so I altered my appearance so that would be more likely to happen. You think all those women you see on a Saturday night in tight clothes, make up, high heels AREN'T looking for the attention of men? Really?

    I think you and scumlord are both right. Women want the attention from men, but the more attention a woman wants the more she needs to be more "attention worthy" than other women. So its an arms race really.


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    #39
    Legs.Eleven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Legs.Eleven


    ScumLord wrote: »
    No, and I already said there's that element to it but at the same time a woman will dress the same if she's going out with just her friends or are we to take it that if a woman is dressed attractively that she could only want male attention? I'm pretty sure in a different thread we'd be arguing that women don't dress just for men.

    Are you saying it's our main motivation? I thought you were...


    I don't know many women who get dressed up to that extreme and don't intend on going out.

    If a woman is attractive, she's going to look attractive regardless of what she's wearing.



    When I go out here in Madrid, women dress quite casually and the extremely dolled up would be a minority of young women. My normal going out gear would be a dress, tights and flat boots (or bare legs and sandals in the Summer), mascara, bit of lipstick sometimes and a bit of eyeliner and sometimes some foundation. I want to look nice and stylish and I still like when men check me out. Most women here would be the same, if that. Not seeing any battleground or vying for position of alpha female among us, just woman who want to look nice leaving the house.

    Perhaps what you speak about goes on among some groups (usually young women) but definitely not the majority.


    Same goes for Ireland as far as I can see - the extremely dolled up would be the minority.



    The idea that most women are massively into cosmetics and make up and all the rest of it isn't evident day to day.


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    #40
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    ScumLord wrote: »
    a woman will dress the same if she's going out with just her friends or are we to take it that if a woman is dressed attractively that she could only want male attention?
    If meeting men, absolutely.
    I'm pretty sure in a different thread we'd be arguing that women don't dress just for men.
    I wouldn't say we "only" dress for men, but anyone who says we never ever do is talking bullsh1t. I'd say we do most of the time. The thing about women always dressing for other women is also bullsh1t - it's just a soundbite some deluded people use because they think it makes them seem kinda clever and going against the grain. Even though it's just a whopper of a cliche.


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    #41
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    ScumLord wrote: »
    If women didn't wear makeup they'd still have men hanging off them. We don't care. I think most womens perfume smells like a chemical you'd use to unblock drains. I don't think there are many men that like the smell of womens perfume until they've attached that smell to a woman they like.


    What's this "we" business, paleface? :p


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    #42
    The One Who Knocks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭The One Who Knocks


    *Hovers over link*

    *Sees http://www.dailymail.co.uk/*

    *Moves on*


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    #43
    Ihatecuddles-old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭Ihatecuddles-old


    Jamez735 wrote: »
    *Hovers over link*

    *Sees http://www.dailymail.co.uk/*

    *posts*

    *Moves on*

    fixed.


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    #44
    Legs.Eleven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Legs.Eleven


    Bullseye wrote: »
    I think you and scumlord are both right. Women want the attention from men, but the more attention a woman wants the more she needs to be more "attention worthy" than other women. So its an arms race really.


    That idea is grossly exaggerated. I never had that kind of competition among my female friends tbh EVER. Perhaps some groups of younger women do (can't imagine a woman over 30 thinking this way) but it's not the majority.


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    #45
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    If meeting men, absolutely.

    I wouldn't say we "only" dress for men, but anyone who says we never ever do is talking bullsh1t. I'd say we do most of the time. The thing about women always dressing for other women is also bullsh1t - it's just a soundbite some deluded people use because they think it makes them seem kinda clever and going against the grain. Even though it's just a whopper of a cliche.

    Not according to the daily mail. :pac: Apparently two thirds are trying to encourage compliments from their peers.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2002391/Sorry-chaps-women-dress-impress-other.html


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    #46
    Fox_In_Socks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭Fox_In_Socks


    Just a touch of guyliner round the eyes for that smoky look.

    http://www.fera.defra.gov.uk/images/section_banner_right/foxEyes.jpg


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    #47
    Daveysil15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Daveysil15


    Fox_In_Socks wrote: »
    Just a touch of guyliner round the eyes for that smoky look.

    http://www.fera.defra.gov.uk/images/section_banner_right/foxEyes.jpg[/QUOTE]

    Foxy. ;)


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    #48
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    If meeting men, absolutely.

    I wouldn't say we "only" dress for men, but anyone who says we never ever do is talking bullsh1t. I'd say we do most of the time. The thing about women always dressing for other women is also bullsh1t.

    I dunno, my friends would all wear full face of make up and tight dresses/high heels on a night out, now admittedly its to a pub that gets more club type as the night goes on, I wear jeans and converse and my normal minimal makeup. And I've had plenty of men approach me, and actually the last three times I've been out the men I've talked to (some I'd know to see) have commented on the fact that I dont dress/do myself up like the others there. And it wasn't in an insulting way to either the other girls or myself they just thought it was different. I've never really felt the need to dress up the same as my friends unless we were going to a club or restaurant with a dress code or that was particularly "fancy".
    I'm only newly in a relationship so its nothing to do with not being on the pull or anything.

    ETA: I wear stuff that most men would and often have said "that's ridiculous", but I don't think I wear it to impress women either. But probably more for women than men cause I know most men wouldn't like the style I go for on a day to day basis.


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    #49
    Legs.Eleven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,987 ✭✭✭Legs.Eleven


    Tasden wrote: »
    I dunno, my friends would all wear full face of make up and tight dresses/high heels on a night out, now admittedly its to a pub that gets more club type as the night goes on, I wear jeans and converse and my normal minimal makeup. And I've had plenty of men approach me, and actually the last three times I've been out the men I've talked to (some I'd know to see) have commented on the fact that I dont dress/do myself up like the others there. And it wasn't in an insulting way to either the other girls or myself they just thought it was different. I've never really felt the need to dress up the same as my friends unless we were going to a club or restaurant with a dress code or that was particularly "fancy".
    I'm only newly in a relationship so its nothing to do with not being on the pull or anything.


    I'm guessing you're good-looking anyway and good-looking people will look good in most things.


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    #50
    Bullseye
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 45 ✭Bullseye


    Women clearly are more attractive with make up assuming the make up is applied competently.


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    #51
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    No it doesn't "all" - and you know it doesn't. Lots of the women you fancy are wearing a bit of make-up and you don't think they look silly. Stop lying now.
    I know they are but that's the default state. It doesn't mean I don't know they're wearing makeup or have a preference for a minimal amount of makeup. It's no surprise to me that most women wear makeup I'm just saying it's irelivant to me.
    Back to the "Make-up is only clown paint" mindset. Well applied and subtle and in small amounts... there's no debate really. Natalie Portman, Michelle Pfeiffer - all those ladies in the pictures that make men melt... are wearing well-applied make-up.
    And they would more than likely have the same effect without it.
    But a man will still have his preferences in terms of looks. I'm not talking about the Neanderthal age anyway, I'm talking about 2013.
    Looks are separate from applied makeup though.
    The guy who fancies more the woman wearing make-up cares. Make-up has obviously made a difference to him despite you pretending make-up looks silly and makes no difference. ;)
    But this guy doesn't really exist, you created him to prove a point.
    Legs.Eleven wrote: »
    I don't know many women who get dressed up to that extreme and don't intend on going out.
    Yes you get dressed up to go somewhere. It doesn't have to be short dresses either, women tend to look good the majority of the time no matter what their wearing.
    If a woman is attractive, she's going to look attractive regardless of what she's wearing.
    This is what I'm saying all along.


    You just can't overlook the fact women are in competition with other women, it's the same for men, we compete amongst ourselves and the winner gets to mate. It's common throughout the animal kingdom.


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    #52
    Karl Stein
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    Women are sneaky like that. I was dating a real hottie for weeks before I realised:
    She had a penis.


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    #53
    Femme_Fatale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭Femme_Fatale


    ScumLord wrote: »
    And they would more than likely have the same effect without it.
    Perhaps. But only because they are exceptionally good-looking, which lots of women aren't (most women aren't ugly either).
    Looks are separate from applied makeup though.
    No they're not.
    But this guy doesn't really exist, you created him to prove a point.
    Yes he does. For instance the way any woman gets more positive male attention when she is wearing well applied make-up (not the orange shyte).

    If women are in competition with each other, it's not always a conscious decision. It seems like a very stupid way to be IMO.


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    #54
    Manassas61
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭Manassas61


    Some countries females don't really require that much make up because they look beautiful and don't have to do a lot of work on the face. One of the reasons Irish females are caked in make up is because in general (not all) they aren't that good looking and need to use the make up to hide up insecurities.


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    #55
    Ihatecuddles-old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭Ihatecuddles-old


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    Some countries females don't really require that much make up because they look beautiful and don't have to do a lot of work on the face. One of the reasons Irish females are caked in make up is because in general (not all) they aren't that good looking and need to use the make up to hide up insecurities.

    Arent that good looking? I was considering posting a before and after pic of me but I think Ive changed my mind!


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    #56
    Fox_In_Socks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭Fox_In_Socks


    Some countries females don't really require that much make up because they look beautiful and don't have to do a lot of work on the fame. One of the reasons Irish females are caked in make up is because in general (not all) they aren't that good looking and need to use the make up to hide up insecurities.


    "Let the Games begin! And may the odds be ever in your favor!"

    :pac:

    Seriously...no.


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    #57
    danslevent
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭danslevent


    Manassas61 wrote: »
    Some countries females don't really require that much make up because they look beautiful and don't have to do a lot of work on the face. One of the reasons Irish females are caked in make up is because in general (not all) they aren't that good looking and need to use the make up to hide up insecurities.

    I don't think so...It's just Irish girls/guys skins are paler than other countries. So blemishes show up way easier. I think the majority of Irish women are quite pretty, shut yo mouth!


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    #58
    Manassas61
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭Manassas61


    danslevent wrote: »
    I don't think so...It's just Irish girls/guys skins are paler than other countries. So blemishes show up way easier. I think the majority of Irish women are quite pretty, shut yo mouth!
    Many Asia girls are pale and I tend to think they look good, although in South Korea they do seem to have a make up problem as they put too much on.

    I can understand some women from certain countries having to put a lot on though.


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    #59
    renraw
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 496 ✭✭renraw


    Lads wear make-up, all the time. It doesn't matter if its called concealer or whatever...Some lads will play the "innocence" card and say they never indulged... Any man that values what he looks like will know that regardless of whatever, they want to look good and not "wearing make up" means a maintenance thing. Looking good is something all lads want to do, but not have wearing "Make-up" as being a "betrayal"?? what?? a betrayal?? seriously??? jumping jebus, its 2013! If all a man has to worry about is spot welding with make-up...then it might be a beautiful day...somehow?!?!?!...


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    #60
    JenEffy
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭JenEffy


    I think it can be a betrayal. Anyone who's watched Jenna Marbles' videos knows that she looks gorgeous with makeup and almost ugly without it. She's very talented at doing her makeup. The same can be said of Katy Perry, except in her case she has makeup artists doing hers.


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    #61
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Femme_Fatale wrote: »
    Perhaps. But only because they are exceptionally good-looking, which lots of women aren't (most women aren't ugly either).
    But most women think they're ugly. They don't have to be exceptional to look good without makeup. I'm certain that in a few decades if makeup went out of fashion (which is all it is) women would look back on these days and wonder what ye were at. It's an accepted norm at the moment.
    No they're not.
    Of course they are, makeup does not automatically make you good looking.
    Yes he does. For instance the way any woman gets more positive male attention when she is wearing well applied make-up (not the orange shyte).
    This is all hearsay.
    If women are in competition with each other, it's not always a conscious decision. It seems like a very stupid way to be IMO.
    Loads of what humans do is just subconscious animal behaviour. It's across the board and not just related to attracting the opposite sex.

    I think a big part of overcoming your animal side is to accept it. being aware of the fact you're an animal allows you to see the parts of you that are instinctive and reactionary. Everything we do is routed in common and basic animal needs.


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