Is wearing make-up a 'betrayal'?

beks101

LexieOnRale wrote: »

I don't spend time doing my makeup because I want to attract people, to have people love me for how I look with makeup ( ), the ritual of applying it is relaxing and something I enjoy.

Me too. The application process can be incredibly therapeutic and creative, I always look forward to it. And it's confidence boosting to watch yourself enhancing your best features - bigger eyes, higher cheekbones, plump lips.

It's something I do to help me feel good about myself, just like going to the gym and eating healthily.

A betrayal? Feck off. They make me feel more like ME - the best, happiest version of Beks101.

ScumLord

beks101 wrote: »

Me too. The application process can be incredibly therapeutic and creative, I always look forward to it.

That is one of the better excuses reasons I've heard for putting on makeup. Like I've been saying it's an aesthetic challenge that women like to do and there is a competitive element to it.


Regardless women don't need to wear makeup for mens benefit. Men should never be blamed for women spending so much time on makeup. It's more for the individual womans benefit and the women she knows than it is for mens benefit.

Legs.Eleven

ScumLord wrote: »

That is one of the better excuses reasons I've heard for putting on makeup. Like I've been saying it's an aesthetic challenge that women like to do and there is a competitive element to it.


Regardless women don't need to wear makeup for mens benefit. Men should never be blamed for women spending so much time on makeup. It's more for the individual womans benefit and the women she knows than it is for mens benefit.

You're just putting your own subjective slant on what she said - it's really bizarre. How can you prove this so-called "competitive element"?


Who's blaming men? The article blames women of treachery, for the love of jaysus. Blame has been put squarely on the woman.


So much time? Most women? Eh...no.

Bullseye

Im surprised the issue of deception and the morality of it hasn't really come up. There is an argument that it is immoral to knowingly depict a false image of your self to attract a mate. I don't think its immoral myself, I think its simply part of the mating game, nonetheless its a strong argument.

Legs.Eleven

Looks like most women on this thread put it on to feel better about themselves - I can't see any competitiveness here at all. Am I wrong, ladies?

SV

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Looks like most women on this thread put it on to feel better about themselves - I can't see any competitiveness here at all. Am I wrong, ladies?

Well..they're not going to admit it

The Big Smoke

Makeup is like a cucumber down your pants, but for women.

Legs.Eleven

Bullseye wrote: »

Im surprised the issue of deception and the morality of it hasn't really come up. There is an argument that it is immoral to knowingly depict a false image of your self to attract a mate. I don't think its immoral myself, I think its simply part of the mating game, nonetheless its a strong argument.

Deception = betrayal. That's what the thread is about.


The question of morality hasn't come up because it's not relevant.

CathyMoran

I dislike the fact that I get criticized by women for not wearing much makeup. I do wear lipstick but that would be the extent of it. I do take a pride in my appearance but do not feel that heavy makeup is for me.

lukesmom

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Looks like most women on this thread put it on to feel better about themselves - I can't see any competitiveness here at all. Am I wrong, ladies?

Your not wrong. No competitiveness at all . I wouldn't have posted the before pic if I was in competition. My skin is clearly the worst out of all 3 photos put up. It's just to show how make up helps me so much. My skin used to be perfect but I'm on medication that causes acne and I definitely cannot come off the med at the moment. So make up is my best friend to save embarrassment of a 33 year old with teenage skin problems

Legs.Eleven

SV wrote: »

Well..they're not going to admit it

Right then, I wear mascara because I'm in competition with my two best female friends here. I'm winning, obviously.

The Big Smoke

lukesmom wrote: »

Your not wrong. No competitiveness at all . I wouldn't have posted the before pic if I was in competition. My skin is clearly the worst out of all 3 photos put up. It's just to show how make up helps me so much. My skin used to be perfect but I'm on medication that causes acne and I definitely cannot come off the med at the moment. So make up is my best friend to save embarrassment of a 33 year old with teenage skin problems

Blokes don't have the luxury of covering it up. I get spots too and it sucks.:(

At least you get to cover them up.

Legs.Eleven

lukesmom wrote: »

Your not wrong. No competitiveness at all . I wouldn't have posted the before pic if I was in competition. My skin is clearly the worst out of all 3 photos put up. It's just to show how make up helps me so much. My skin used to be perfect but I'm on medication that causes acne and I definitely cannot come off the med at the moment. So make up is my best friend to save embarrassment of a 33 year old with teenage skin problems

Exactly!


Either way, you're beautiful with and without make up. Genuinely.

Legs.Eleven

If you walk around, the majority of women don't have a lot of make up on if any at all. If we were in competition, surely we'd all be made up all the time?

Bullseye

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Deception = betrayal. That's what the thread is about.


The question of morality hasn't come up because it's not relevant.

Morality is relevant. It could easily be deemed immoral to deceive potential mates into thinking you look more attractive than you actually are.

Ihatecuddles-old

I look plain as f*ck without make up, I often go out without it though. I dont think I wear much anyway, dont ever wear eyeshadow or eyeliner, never wear dark lipstick.

If I was in competition with someone I wouldnt have posted my picture!!

lukesmom

The Big Smoke wrote: »

Blokes don't have the luxury of covering it up. I get spots too and it sucks.:(

At least you get to cover them up.

I know and I do sympathise with lads in that regard. I don't know how they cope.

The Big Smoke

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

If you walk around, the majority of women don't have a lot of make up on if any at all. If we were in competition, surely we'd all be made up all the time?

It must be the oompa loompas from charlie and the chocolate factory walking around then.

pharmaton

lukesmom wrote: »

Your not wrong. No competitiveness at all . I wouldn't have posted the before pic if I was in competition. My skin is clearly the worst out of all 3 photos put up. It's just to show how make up helps me so much. My skin used to be perfect but I'm on medication that causes acne and I definitely cannot come off the med at the moment. So make up is my best friend to save embarrassment of a 33 year old with teenage skin problems

you don't look anywhere near 33, I think you look great btw.

lukesmom

pharmaton wrote: »

you don't look anywhere near 33, I think you look great btw.

Thanks a lot seriously

SV

Well, just go on a tangent here..any girl I've asked about why they wear high heels or freeze themselves half to death on nights out wearing pretty much nothing when most lads really don't give a shíte has always said "It's not for the lads benefit, other girls would be looking"
It isn't far to think that make up gets applied for the same reason.

lukesmom

SV wrote: »

Well, just go on a tangent here..any girl I've asked about why they wear high heels or freeze themselves half to death on nights out wearing pretty much nothing when most lads really don't give a shíte has always said "It's not for the lads benefit, other girls would be looking"
It isn't far to think that make up gets applied for the same reason.

That's a load of sh!te

Legs.Eleven

Bullseye wrote: »

Morality is relevant. It could easily be deemed immoral to deceive potential mates into thinking you look more attractive than you actually are.

Immoral is a very strong word and way too much for this

Everyone puts their best foot forward when meeting a potential mate. It's the mating game, as you said. My boyfriend didn't know about how I sometimes fly off the handle, my untidiness, my propensity to sometimes get too drunk and rant etc. and I didn't know about his farting problem and the fact that he likes to complain a fair bit.

He didn't fart till about month 3, in fact and then I decided if it was a problem for me or not (it obviously wasn't). I was free to leave him if I chose to. That's hardly immoral.


Most men see their partner without make up in the early stages of the relationship and then they can decide for themselves if they want to continue with them. It'd be different now if the woman never showed her face, waited till they got married and THEN decided to reveal all. Even then, the man is free to leave but this rarely happens.

Legs.Eleven

SV wrote: »

Well, just go on a tangent here..any girl I've asked about why they wear high heels or freeze themselves half to death on nights out wearing pretty much nothing when most lads really don't give a shíte has always said "It's not for the lads benefit, other girls would be looking"
It isn't far to think that make up gets applied for the same reason.

I've never heard a woman say that. In fairness, most women I know wouldn't be stupid enough to not a wear a coat on a night out. It's only a handful of women of a certain age who do that - most women on a night out in Winter would wear a coat.


And what about the women who change their shoes during the night to flats or walk home with their shoes in their hands? I presume they're doing that for no one but themselves.

Czarcasm

The Big Smoke wrote: »

Blokes don't have the luxury of covering it up. I get spots too and it sucks.:(

At least you get to cover them up.

Smoke you can get concealer specifically designed for male skin types to cover acne and acne scars. I couldn't possibly recommend one for you, but if you tip into your local chemist they should be able to offer some advice -

http://www.mensmake-up.co.uk/blog/cover-acne-scars-with-concealer-for-men/


I used have woeful problems with blackheads myself and used have to use concealer, I got so frustrated by them that I razed the top layer of my skin on my face with a single blade razor and a nailbrush, which obviously only made the problem worse. That was when I decided to go to my GP who put me on a course of "Retin A" and after a couple of weeks my skin improved immensely.

Legs.Eleven

lukesmom wrote: »

That's a load of sh!te

Total garbage.

Daveysil15

Photos can be deceiving. The girl who posted the before photo with the cold sores - horrible lighting and an unflattering angle. You'd have to see someone in person to make a better judgment.

The Big Smoke

Czarcasm wrote: »

Smoke you can get concealer specifically designed for male skin types to cover acne and acne scars. I couldn't possibly recommend one for you, but if you tip into your local chemist they should be able to offer some advice -

http://www.mensmake-up.co.uk/blog/cover-acne-scars-with-concealer-for-men/


I used have woeful problems with blackheads myself and used have to use concealer, I got so frustrated by them that I razed the top layer of my skin on my face with a single blade razor and a nailbrush, which obviously only made the problem worse. That was when I decided to go to my GP who put me on a course of "Retin A" and after a couple of weeks my skin improved immensely.

Thanks for that, might head to the GP.

SV

lukesmom wrote: »

That's a load of sh!te

I'm only repeating what has been said to me. Obviously it doesn't count for you, then.

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I've never heard a woman say that. In fairness, most women I know wouldn't be stupid enough to not a wear a coat on a night out. It's only a handful of women of a certain age who do that - most women on a night out in Winter would wear a coat.


And what about the women who change their shoes during the night to flats or walk home with their shoes in their hands? I presume they're doing that for no one but themselves.

It was actually the shoes thing that brought it up, I asked them why they bother with high heels at all when they cause them so much pain, which led on to the clothes discussion.

Legs.Eleven

SV wrote: »

I'm only repeating what has been said to me. Obviously it doesn't count for you, then.




It was actually the shoes thing that brought it up, I asked them why they bother with high heels at all when they cause them so much pain, which led on to the clothes discussion.

People do things for different reasons. Just cos the girls you know wear heels for other women, doesn't mean we all do.

SV

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

People do things for different reasons. Just cos the girls you know wear heels for other women, doesn't mean we all do.

I never said that.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

SV wrote: »

I'm only repeating what has been said to me. Obviously it doesn't count for you, then.




It was actually the shoes thing that brought it up, I asked them why they bother with high heels at all when they cause them so much pain, which led on to the clothes discussion.

Because they make me taller, they strengthen the calf muscles in my legs. They're more comfortable on my right foot than flats because I broke my ankle and the slant is more comfy for me. I love shoes, and enjoy wearing beautiful ones. They improve my posture, and they can really make an outfit.

And one time when a crazy older lady threatened to hit me with her 2 inch court shoe on a night out, mine was 3inches higher and more spikey, so they're like self defence weapons too ha.

ScumLord

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

You're just putting your own subjective slant on what she said - it's really bizarre. How can you prove this so-called "competitive element"?

Why do some to most women feel insecure without makeup?

Legs.Eleven

SV wrote: »

I never said that.

Who continue to wear their heels even though they cause them pain for other women then.

Lexie explained why she wears hers. Being individuals, we do things for different reasons.



Most women I know change into flats or take them off. Actually most women I know don't wear heels on a night out. Not very common here.

Legs.Eleven

ScumLord wrote: »

Why do some to most women feel insecure without makeup?

Some to most? Which is it?

How can you possibly prove that? Again, you're own theory dressed up as fact.


And even if it was true, how does it prove your point about competitiveness among us in the form of make up wearing competitions? Surely it just means that the women don't like how they look without it.

The Big Smoke

Some posters make these threads really unpleasent. It's a light hearted conversation but as usual the Know-it-alls turn it into a grind to read.

Legs.Eleven

The Big Smoke wrote: »

Some posters make these threads really unpleasent. It's a light hearted conversation but as usual the Know-it-alls turn it into a grind to read.

Was that directed at me?

Bullseye

Even if no conscious competition is taking place amongst women, I believe competition is taking place nonetheless. Whether it is competition to feel good or for male attention. I contend the better a woman feels in comparison other women the better she feels, this applies to women who dress up and apply make up of course.

lukesmom

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Photos can be deceiving. The girl who posted the before photo with the cold sores - horrible lighting and an unflattering angle. You'd have to see someone in person to make a better judgment.

That would be me. It was the exact same lighting in both photos. I'm gonna do a full on front one instead of the bad unflattering angle and change it. I should have done the same angle for both.

Manassas61

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Who continue to wear their heels even though they cause them pain for other women then.

Lexie explained why she wears hers. Being individuals, we do things for different reasons.



Most women I know change into flats or take them off. Actually most women I know don't wear heels on a night out. Not very common here.

The thread is about make up and ordinary looking women using make up to make themselves feel better. I don't think there is anything wrong with just admitting that.

Its obvious that is why make up is slapped on.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Bullseye wrote: »

Even if no conscious competition is taking place amongst women, I believe competition is taking place nonetheless. Whether it is competition to feel good or for male attention. I contend the better a woman feels in comparison other women the better she feels, this applies to women who dress up and apply make up of course.

But if I (again just my own perspective) was to go and try compete with other women, I'd be severely disappointed all the time and I'm sure I would have even worse self esteem issues. I learned years ago, accept what you were given. I'm not the best looking young(ish) one out there, but I work with what I've got and sure feck it, isn't that all you can do, at the end of the day?

Legs.Eleven

Manassas61 wrote: »

The thread is about make up and ordinary looking women using make up to make themselves feel better. I don't think there is anything wrong with just admitting that.

Its obvious that is why make up is slapped on.

But I never denied that was the case. I'd agree, in fact.

Czarcasm

ScumLord wrote: »

Why do some to most women feel insecure without makeup?

Are you sure you've got yourself covered enough there? "some to most", jesus... :pac:


I don't know why ScumLord you're quite so adamant about this whole make up malarkey but honestly, your posts in this thread so far have been nothing short of ridiculous generalisations, misguided perceived insight and just downright conjecture.

You started off trying to speak for most men, thinking that just because you think a certain way, ALL men must think that way (that "we don't care" in one of your earlier posts), and when that was completely debunked, you've changed tack and gone for putting forward how "some to most" women think, just because YOU think they must think that way.

How can you honestly expect Legs to answer a question on behalf of "some to most" women when you yourself haven't listened to ANYONE else's opinion on this thread who has disagreed with you and told you that you're wrong to think everybody thinks the same way you do?

Fat Nav

We are all unique.
If someone likes to wear makeup or not as the case may be for whatever reason that's grand with me either way.
What really matters is the persons personality and if you get on together.

Femme_Fatale

ScumLord wrote: »

What makes someone beautiful is subject to change, what's considered flattering changes. Human society is very transient, what's popular today can seem horrid tomorrow. Humans attached meaning to clothing, you don't see people going around with puffed out pantaloons like the kings did back in the day, because the meaning has changed.

Of course. But make-up has pretty much always been around in some shape or form, just different styles of it. For example, in the early 80s it was all garish colours and absolutely trowelled on. Whereas it became really toned down compared to that in the years since, but it's still here.

Czarcasm

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Of course. But make-up has pretty much always been around in some shape or form, just different styles of it. For example, in the early 80s it was all garish colours and absolutely trowelled on. Whereas it became really toned down compared to that in the years since, but it's still here.

I instantly thought of Boy George and "Karma Chameleon" when I read that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmcA9LIIXWw

ScumLord

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Some to most? Which is it?

The majority.

I'm only going off what you're saying in the thread, so far you've all said you wear makeup because you'd feel insecure without it.

Daveysil15

lukesmom wrote: »

That would be me. It was the exact same lighting in both photos.

It's a very harsh light that will show up any sort of imperfections. It's too yellow looking.

Legs.Eleven

ScumLord wrote: »

The majority.

I'm only going off what you're saying in the thread, so far you've all said you wear makeup because you'd feel insecure without it.

And there's where the problem lies. That wouldn't be the majority then, would it?


And not ALL of us said that.


Now I know you're just winding me up. ;-)

Tony EH

Originally Posted by The Big Smoke View Post
Blokes don't have the luxury of covering it up. I get spots too and it sucks.

At least you get to cover them up.

lukesmom wrote: »

I know and I do sympathise with lads in that regard. I don't know how they cope.

Because spots are temporary. So to are the majority of little skin blemishes that may blight a face at a given time. Getting het up about nonsense like that just isn't worth your time.

And if someone was to turn their nose up at you cos of a couple of spots...that's not the person for you at the end of the day.