Forum 'redirection' is or is not backseat modding?

P_1

Just my 2c here. There's no need to be adding yet more rules (feck knows the place has enough of them already) for something that any mod with a decent bit of cop on can solve fairly handily. Are some of the 'feck off to Dublin' posts annoying, yes they can be but there's no sense in having a big song and dance over them

MadsL

hullaballoo wrote: »

Conspiracy Theories forum

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http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056259147

MadsL

P_1 wrote: »

Just my 2c here. There's no need to be adding yet more rules (feck knows the place has enough of them already) for something that any mod with a decent bit of cop on can solve fairly handily. Are some of the 'feck off to Dublin' posts annoying, yes they can be but there's no sense in having a big song and dance over them

To my knowledge they have never been infracted, I have never seen that happen anyway.

Most people find it annoying, and the temptation to be a condescending dick is something even I (as perfect as I am :P) fall prey to.

If ignored as they generally are, the user gets away with being a dick. If challenged they derail the thread into a justification of the thread being in the forum.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

MadsL wrote: »

AH is not a popularity contest. I only brought up the number of votes to show that 103 user were interested enough to vote.

Uninteresting threads sink to the next page and so on, that's how AH works, unless a mod closes them as obviously stupid. Daddy or chips polls like you suggest above would be closed by the mods as a pointless poll so you would probably lose that bet.

Anyway, we are not discussing how interesting the thread was, we are discussing a form of dickish behaviour.


Very well. How about "not much tolerance" for "pissing all over" threads.
At the moment it appears that there is abundant tolerence. The argument, or rather question I'm asking is if it should have any measure tolerated. We can argue about the degree of tolerance later.



Is there a shortage of threads on AH or something, or a problem with your new thread button?

Boards is probably the most heavily moderated website I've come across on the interwebs and you're saying that it should be moderated even more heavily because you expect only serious answers from a tedious thread posted in one of the least serious forums on the website.

Tá me confused mór.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

MadsL wrote: »

To my knowledge they have never been infracted, I have never seen that happen anyway.

Most people find it annoying, and the temptation to be a condescending dick is something even I (as perfect as I am :P) fall prey to.

If ignored as they generally are, the user gets away with being a dick. If challenged they derail the thread into a justification of the thread being in the forum.

But being a 'dick' is subjective in how you are portraying the meaning to be. In reality, (I assume) that rule is there so people don't abuse each other, say racist crap or start bullying. Being a smarty pants in AH is par for the course, or else I've grossly over estimated my grasp of reading and comprehension.

MugMugs

MadsL wrote: »

The problem I am talking about is pissing all over a thread just in order to piss over a thread. No-one is even trying to be funny or helpful, just being a dick because they don't like the thread. And I'm sure I have probably been just as dickish in the same way in my posting history before anyone runs off to check, it doesn't make it OK.

I'm genuinely shocked that you're still arguing this point after what's been posted above.

A new member comes on, asks a question and is given that response. That account is closed now. Wonder if it was because of the reception given after their first thread?

You're basically saying "this is out of order despite the fact that I've done it myself"

Sorry lad but your point IMHO has lost all credibility.

Tombi!

I've seen a post or two infracted (warned? Whatever is the yellow card) for the stuff like dickish "redirecting" posts.

At the end of the day it's not that big of a deal. I mean unless you have the same people repeating it in every thread to do with a Dublin/Cork/whatever thread it's not that much of an issue.

It'd be nice to stop it completely but this is AH and you're gonna get a few smart people in the first page or so.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Boards is probably the most heavily moderated website I've come across on the interwebs

Really? I've come across far worse. Especially ones that don't really give you an avenue to talk about why a mod said/did something.

I get that in the DRP a lot of the mods/admins seem to be fairly stubborn at times with sticking to upholding cards/bans but for the most part they explain why it happened which is a lot more than other sites.

MadsL

MugMugs wrote: »

I'm genuinely shocked that you're still arguing this point after what's been posted above.

A new member comes on, asks a question and is given that response. That account is closed now. Wonder if it was because of the reception given after their first thread?

You're basically saying "this is out of order despite the fact that I've done it myself"

Sorry lad but your point IMHO has lost all credibility.

You have never been infracted? Seriously? Or never gotten a speeding ticket?

So yes, my view, having been on the receiving end recently has changed. Is there a problem with that?

I'm not the only one posting that this behaviour is annoying am I?

MadsL

MugMugs wrote: »

A new member comes on, asks a question and is given that response. That account is closed now. Wonder if it was because of the reception given after their first thread?

Should I have been infracted for the post that whoopsadaisy pointed out?

If yes, I rest my case.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Really? I've come across far worse. Especially ones that don't really give you an avenue to talk about why a mod said/did something.

I get that in the DRP a lot of the mods/admins seem to be fairly stubborn at times with sticking to upholding cards/bans but for the most part they explain why it happened which is a lot more than other sites.

Do you think Boards.ie is not heavily moderated?

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it probably adds to it being one of the best discussion sites all in all.

I'm saying asking for 'zero tolerance' over smarty pants replies in one of the least serious forums on here to me seems rather strange at best.

MadsL

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Do you think Boards.ie is not heavily moderated?

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it probably adds to it being one of the best discussion sites all in all.

I'm saying asking for 'zero tolerance' over smarty pants replies in one of the least serious forums on here to me seems strange at best, and kinda 'd###ish' at worst.

Wait. I'm being kinda dickish for talking about annoying forum behaviour in Feedback now?? At least I have moved on from sabotage.

So far in this thread I've been accused of being a hypocrite, a dick, a bore, a saboteur, being the cause of users closing accounts, and been baited by a mod. :pac:
I am in Feedback right? I didn't click back into AH by mistake??

Tombi!

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Do you think Boards.ie is not heavily moderated?

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it probably adds to it being one of the best discussion sites all in all.

I'm saying asking for 'zero tolerance' over smarty pants replies in one of the least serious forums on here to me seems rather strange at best.

I wouldn't say heavily moderated. I'd say there's a lot of rules but a lot of things is left up to the mods. I mean I've been on sites where if I was obviously joking with you and called you stupid for getting something really obvious wrong (like I dunno, you say there's 20 letters in the English alphabet) I'd have the post deleted.

I don't think there's much of a zero tolerance on anything other than offensive stuff like porn or the likes and not being able to discuss ongoing court cases.

Lacerda

MadsL wrote: »

I have to say I do have a gripe with posts in AH that whine about posts not being in the regional forums. Surely if an event has made the national papers then it is a national event/topic?

Why is whining about a thread about something that happens in Dublin and posting things like "Dublin forum" or "who cares about Dublin" or "try the Dublin forum" not backseat modding and against the charter?

If call it moddycoddling

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

MadsL wrote: »

Wait. I'm being kinda dickish for talking about annoying forum behaviour in Feedback now?? At least I have moved on from sabotage.

So far in this thread I've been accused of being a hypocrite, a dick, a bore, a saboteur, being the cause of users closing accounts, and been baited by a mod. :pac:
I am in Feedback right? I didn't click back into AH by mistake??

I ninja edited the 'd###ish' part as I didn't want to come across as mean. I'm just annoyed that you're arguing for a 'zero tolerance' approach to AH when it's by far and away the most enjoyable forum on this site.

Throw in a few more bans for this and cards for that and you'll turn it into a overly sanitised dullfest and it'll be all the worse for it.

From my point of view, I see you arguing to make the forum worse and to follow rules that even you can't/don't follow. Do you not think that that is odd no?

MadsL

Lacerda wrote: »

If call it moddycoddling

Love it. Let's make this a thing.

Whole new feedback thread..."we porpose the adoption of the word moddycoddling as description of a backseat modding behaviour worthy of infraction"

Tombi!

MadsL wrote: »

Love it. Let's make this a thing.

Whole new feedback thread..."we porpose the adoption of the word moddycoddling as description of a backseat modding behaviour worthy of infraction"

You should probably start a new thread.
Just mollycoddling you is all.

MadsL

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I ninja edited the 'd###ish' part as I didn't want to come across as mean. I'm just annoyed that you're arguing for a 'zero tolerance' approach to AH when it's by far and away the most enjoyable forum on this site.

Throw in a few more bans for this and cards for that and you'll turn it into a overly sanitised dullfest and it'll be all the worse for it.

We have plenty of rules already, it is by far the most cliquey forum on boards, with regard to bizarre phrases and memes - some of which are permitted, others which will get you a card. I don't thik that has sanitised it, it has prevented it becoming The Thunderdome.

From my point of view, I see you arguing to make the forum worse and to follow rules that even you can't/don't follow. Do you not think that that is odd no?

How do I follow a rule that doesn't exist. More importantly how do I break a rule that doesn't exist. That in hindsight I (and others) can see my previous behaviour wasn't appropriate doesn't negate the argument, it strengthens it.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

MadsL wrote: »

We have plenty of rules already, it is by far the most cliquey forum on boards, with regard to bizarre phrases and memes - some of which are permitted, others which will get you a card. I don't thik that has sanitised it, it has prevented it becoming The Thunderdome.



How do I follow a rule that doesn't exist. More importantly how do I break a rule that doesn't exist. That in hindsight I (and others) can see my previous behaviour wasn't appropriate doesn't negate the argument, it strengthens it.

Yore Ma
Blast it with piss
Bullying
Sl*ne G*rl
Grammar Nazi
Racism
Sexism

You posted that list on the first page. They're banned for simple and obvious reasons. Most would agree that they cross a line.

You're saying there should be zero tolerance applied to smarty pants replies about where a thread should be or not. I think that is silly, pointless and will detract from the forum as it currently is. I don't really have anything more to add other than that.

P_1

MadsL, you seem to be making far too much of this. If something annoys you just try to ignore it. You'd only stress yourself and others out otherwise. Remember it is just the internet afterall

MadsL

P_1 wrote: »

MadsL, you seem to be making far too much of this. If something annoys you just try to ignore it.

I generally do. But I don't see why, when it annoys others as well we cannot bring it up with the mods for consideration - that's the point of feedback.

You'd only stress yourself and others out otherwise. Remember it is just the internet afterall

I'm not stressed. Quite the contrary. Others seem to object to more rules though...and I have argued myself for not banning 'thinly veiled'.

My view however is that there is little need to be pointing a seasoned user at other forums, it is simply done for annoyance, I mean it is not like I don't know we have a Dublin forum now is it? So, why are people posting "Dublin forum" - in my view just to needle the OP.

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

I generally do. But I don't see why, when it annoys others as well we cannot bring it up with the mods for consideration - that's the point of feedback.



I'm not stressed. Quite the contrary. Others seem to object to more rules though...and I have argued myself for not banning 'thinly veiled'.

My view however is that there is little need to be pointing a seasoned user at other forums, it is simply done for annoyance, I mean it is not like I don't know we have a Dublin forum now is it? So, why are people posting "Dublin forum" - in my view just to needle the OP.

So why, if you knew there was a Dublin forum, would you post something Dublin related in AH?

hullaballoo wrote: »

If ever there was a thread made for cat pics.

MadsL

Deleted User wrote: »

So why, if you knew there was a Dublin forum, would you post something Dublin related in AH?

Because it is of national interest, the ESB is a national organisation and the new item made the national papers.

Currently on AH front page we have threads about:
fav Comedians (Humour)
Best Joke (Humour)
Japan (we have Japan forum)
Sausages (Food and Drink)
Dublin Mothers (Dublin? Parenting?)
Tap Water being bad (Health and Fitness? Infrastructure?)
Price of chicken fillets (Consumer Issues? cooking?)
Mid week pints (Beer and Wine)
Buying a Car on Benefits (Motors? Social Welfare?)
Cut Foreign Aid (politics)
Global warming (Environmental Science, Green Issues)

Which leaves about 2-3 threads full of silly word games that could just as easily fit in Puzzles.

If AH mods wanted no work they could move ALL the threads!!

In fact the only thread that could be started on AH that wouldn't be able to be moved elsewhere would be "Think of a thread subject that couldn't be moved from AH into another forum".

MadsL

Deleted User wrote: »

Cat pic

I'm sure we had a Pets forum somewhere....

You do know the national newspapers are also very Dublin biased too, right?

The issue is that for a long time, if anything non-Dublin based was discussed in AH it would be harangued and told to move to their own regional forum, yet Dublin issues were exempt? Why is that fair? You do realize that 3/4 of the population live outside Dublin? If the rules go with one, they have to with everything. Only way to do it.

MadsL

Deleted User wrote: »

You do know the national newspapers are also very Dublin biased too, right?

Here we go...

The issue is that for a long time, if anything non-Dublin based was discussed in AH it would be harangued and told to move to their own regional forum, yet Dublin issues were exempt? Why is that fair? You do realize that 3/4 of the population live outside Dublin? If the rules go with one, they have to with everything. Only way to do it.

But...but...

I'm on your side asking for that NOT to happen, or only by the mods decision.

P. Breathnach

Deleted User wrote: »

...

If we had a zero tolerance policy, posts like this would need to be actioned too.

And this, by your description above, would almost certainly be backseat modding - (not to mention pretty patronising to a brand new poster).

And in this post, we have a perfect illustration of attacking the poster rather than the post.

It doesn't matter a damn if a person making a point in the Feedback forum is a PITA: the point should be considered on its merits.

El Guapo!

I've read this entire thread and I'm just left confused as to what it's even about anymore. The argument seems to have changed a million times.

OP, what do you hope to achieve from this thread other than going around in circles and changing the argument?
I'm not having a go by the way, I'm genuinely curious.

From what I gather, it's really quite simple.....AH is a kind of "catch all" forum where all manner of topics can be discussed.
Some are suitable for discussion in AH, while others are more suited to a specific forum. The AH mods use their discretion when deciding what is appropriate there and what needs to be moved.

With regards to users directing other users to a more appropriate forum; that is also up to the mods to decide whether they cross the line or not. The majority are people being helpful, while some are people being smart-arsed. Again, it's down to mods discretion.

Blanket rules only work in a very small number of situations. Most things must be looked at on a case by case basis.
We can't have rules on every minor detail. If we did, then forum charters would be as long as a bible and so convoluted that it would be impossible to understand, never mind being able to post anything without breaching the charter in one way or another.

Some things you just have to accept, and leave it up to the mods to ensure a forum runs as smoothly as possible.

MadsL

P. Breathnach wrote: »

And in this post, we have a perfect illustration of attacking the poster rather than the post.

It doesn't matter a damn if a person making a point in the Feedback forum is a PITA: the point should be considered on its merits.

I'm a PITA. Cool. Although now I want a kebab dammit...

...I think whoops was only having the banter and couldn't pass up the opportunity for the Buuuuurrrrnnnnnnnn!

MadsL

El Guapo! wrote: »

I've read this entire thread and I'm just left confused as to what it's even about anymore. The argument seems to have changed a million times.

I think my argument is the same. That redirecting is basically backseat modding (especially when the poster isn't a lost new user).

OP, what do you hope to achieve from this thread other than going around in circles and changing the argument?

I'm tired of having to either ignore comments about the very existence of a thread in AH rather than it being posted in another forum. They also get ignored by mods as we haven't got to the point of them being regarded as backseat moding.

I'm not having a go by the way, I'm genuinely curious.

I get that.

From what I gather, it's really quite simple.....AH is a kind of "catch all" forum where all manner of topics can be discussed.
Some are suitable for discussion in AH, while others are more suited to a specific forum. The AH mods use their discretion when deciding what is appropriate there and what needs to be moved.

...and I'm saying that we should let the mods do that, instead of poster popping up and redirecting. I'm just as guilty, but I hope I do it when it is really obvious where a thread belongs. I really shouldn't, it's the mods call and I'm going to try and stop myself doing it in future.

With regards to users directing other users to a more appropriate forum; that is also up to the mods to decide whether they cross the line or not. The majority are people being helpful, while some are people being smart-arsed. Again, it's down to mods discretion.

I've never been slapped for it, and I have never seen anyone lese be slapped for it.

Blanket rules only work in a very small number of situations. Most things must be looked at on a case by case basis.
We can't have rules on every minor detail. If we did, then forum charters would be as long as a bible and so convoluted that it would be impossible to understand, never mind being able to post anything without breaching the charter in one way or another.

I think it already falls under the charter. Although I can't find backseat modding in the actual AH charter.

]Some things you just have to accept, and leave it up to the mods to ensure a forum runs as smoothly as possible.

But we change things all the time when they get annoying or blasting them with piss fails to impress.

El Guapo!

MadsL wrote: »

.

Sorry, I can't quote your post properly as I'm on the phone so it's a bit difficult....

I do get what you're saying but tbh, I don't see it as a big issue. And I don't see directing users to another forum as a breach of the charter, unless it's in a smart arse way and it falls under 'being a dick'. Most of the time it's a helpful redirection.
If any user feels something is out of line, then the report post function is the way to go about it.
And I wouldn't stop redirecting posters if I was you. After all, this is supposed to be a community, and a good community helps each other out. Everyone needs a little direction from tine to time. I've often wanted to start a thread or ask a question and not had a clue where to post it. If someone is clearly lost, then it's perfectly reasonable to give them a friendly nudge in the right direction.