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new pool in Ross

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    #32
    allthedoyles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    I can see only one culprit in this case , and that is what we call Mother Nature , or the nature of the beast .

    Those were serious winds on Weds afternoon , and many roofs in sheltered locations were torn off easily .

    Rivets , screws , nails or whatever , it would have needed to be welded to withstand that weather , especially with its location , where it had no shelter whatsoever .


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    #33
    volku
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭volku


    I heard it will take 6 months to get the roof back

    but if it's true I wished the main pool was extended to 25m (at the moment is 20m long) and with steps and lines for the swimming competitions in our town or region.

    I cannot understand why it was not done
    there are rows of seats for viewers and the swimming pool should be prepared for any competitions of young swimmers.
    And would bring extra visitors to New Ross

    the baby pool and small pool are way too big anyway


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    #34
    volku
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭volku


    sorry I checked again
    it is 25m long (theapex.ie)

    seemed shorter to me?


    I and my family can't await seeing it back safe and sound


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    #35
    cabledude
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭cabledude


    Dilbert75 wrote: »
    FB is rife with unfounded comments like that and assigning blame without evidence could land you and Boards in legal trouble if you're not careful.

    It's possible that the roof design wasn't suitable for the wind loads experienced on Wednesday. It's possible that it was adequately designed but that it wasn't built correctly. It's possible that it was designed and built exactly right but there was a defect in one piece of materials which caused a weakness which led to the roof failure. It might have taken just one rivet to fail to allow the wind under some flashing to allow the wind under the sheeting. Once the wind got under it, it was already lost.
    100% correct. The contractor that built the place, in this case Mythen Construction, or the roofing subcontractor have no blame here. They built the roof to the specifications laid down in the plans and planning permission. The engineers who signed off on the build will have ensured that the build was completed to the specs. Contractor and subs have no issues here.

    The designers on the other hand may have some questions to answer.

    Did they do wind tunnel modeling on the building to cater for 140+ Kmph winds?

    If not, why?

    I know that we in Ireland very rarely ge these types of windstorms. But buildings are always designed for abnormal loads. Abnormal being usual plus a pre determined percentage above this.

    The playbarn building beside the pool complex did not suffer any damage. Nor did any of the premises on Woodbine business park. Or Lake region for example. All big buildings with large roofs.

    An observation in this case would be that the profile and curvature of the roof mayhave been a factor. Not a flat or typical apex roof.

    I will be very interested to see what the investigation into what happened here determines.


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    #36
    Dilbert75
    Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    I didn't say the contractors definitely didn't have some responsibility - I just said it's not definite that they did.

    Remember the other side of the same building, built in the same location with the same materials by the same people, did not suffer damage. That leads me to believe that it's very possible that a very small fault somewhere led to a very large problem.


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    #37
    cabledude
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭cabledude


    Dilbert75 wrote: »
    I didn't say the contractors definitely didn't have some responsibility - I just said it's not definite that they did.

    Remember the other side of the same building, built in the same location with the same materials by the same people, did not suffer damage. That leads me to believe that it's very possible that a very small fault somewhere led to a very large problem.
    I just can't help wondering if the curvature of the roof was an issue.


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    #38
    allthedoyles
    Registered Users Posts: 6,893 ✭✭✭allthedoyles


    I passed by there today at 12 , and there were at least 20 men plus a few machines working on it . ( including the town clerk and town manager )


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    #39
    Dilbert75
    Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    cabledude wrote: »
    I just can't help wondering if the curvature of the roof was an issue.

    It could turn out to be. But as yet we have no way of knowing.


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    #40
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,433 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Dilbert75 wrote: »
    I didn't say the contractors definitely didn't have some responsibility - I just said it's not definite that they did.

    Remember the other side of the same building, built in the same location with the same materials by the same people, did not suffer damage. That leads me to believe that it's very possible that a very small fault somewhere led to a very large problem.

    It would be a very poor design indeed if a single fault led to such a failure
    Any sort of sheeting should be independently secured and not depending in its neighbour for security.Saw a farm building yesterday with two or three corrugated sheets peeled off like an orange,the rest of it however was fine.
    What I saw of the sheeting on the telly looked very light and flexible,maybe this was a factor.


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    #41
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Dilbert75 wrote: »
    FB is rife with unfounded comments like that and assigning blame without evidence could land you and Boards in legal trouble if you're not careful.

    It's possible that the roof design wasn't suitable for the wind loads experienced on Wednesday. It's possible that it was adequately designed but that it wasn't built correctly. It's possible that it was designed and built exactly right but there was a defect in one piece of materials which caused a weakness which led to the roof failure. It might have taken just one rivet to fail to allow the wind under some flashing to allow the wind under the sheeting. Once the wind got under it, it was already lost.

    so mentioning, and not even their name, that the roofing subcontractor is going to be under pressure over the roof they installed being blown away could get boards into legal troubles? leave it out. there will be a serious amount of legalities about who will be at fault, but neither the main contractor nor the subcontractor will be completley left out of the discussions. I attributed no blame to any, just said they will be under the most pressure, which they are, along with the other elements of the construction team involved.


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    #42
    cabledude
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭cabledude


    bruschi wrote: »
    so mentioning, and not even their name, that the roofing subcontractor is going to be under pressure over the roof they installed being blown away could get boards into legal troubles? leave it out. there will be a serious amount of legalities about who will be at fault, but neither the main contractor nor the subcontractor will be completley left out of the discussions. I attributed no blame to any, just said they will be under the most pressure, which they are, along with the other elements of the construction team involved.
    The main contractor was Mythen Construction. I know the Mythen brothers. They are an excellent company.

    They followed the designs handed to them. Simple as that.

    Honohan Architects were the designers. If anyone has questions, these guys will be first up.....


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    #43
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    cabledude wrote: »
    The main contractor was Mythen Construction. I know the Mythen brothers. They are an excellent company.

    They followed the designs handed to them. Simple as that.

    Honohan Architects were the designers. If anyone has questions, these guys will be first up.....

    if anyone has any questions? as if there is doubt to it?

    If you really think that either the main contractor or the sub contractor who did the roofing will be coming out of this without any questions being posed or asked of them, then I dont know. As I said, everyone will be doing what they can to blame someone else, and it will take a full report to come to a conclusion to it. But for now, they will all be asked questions and will all be involved in the clean up porcess and eventually the reinstallation. If you think just because they followed an architects plans that that absolves them of all responsiblilty then again, I dont know.


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    #44
    cabledude
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭cabledude


    bruschi wrote: »
    if anyone has any questions? as if there is doubt to it?

    If you really think that either the main contractor or the sub contractor who did the roofing will be coming out of this without any questions being posed or asked of them, then I dont know. As I said, everyone will be doing what they can to blame someone else, and it will take a full report to come to a conclusion to it. But for now, they will all be asked questions and will all be involved in the clean up porcess and eventually the reinstallation. If you think just because they followed an architects plans that that absolves them of all responsiblilty then again, I dont know.
    I hear ya. I suppose what I'm trying to get across is that the builders, whether they are main or sub contractors, followed the plans and the contracts. If they didn't follow the contract they would not have been paid for the work.

    If the contract stipulated that the roof be made of pallets and clad in straw, thats what they would have done.

    The designers who designed and the engineers who supervised the build will have to most questions here. Thats the simple fact.

    Suppose the builders were to get a phone call from the investigator.

    It would probably go something like this

    Investigator - Hello Mr. Builder, I'm wondering if you have anything to say about the recent failure of the roof in the Apex complex in New Ross during the storm of 12th Feb?

    Builder - Not a lot as it happens. Terrible storm. We built the facility using the plans and specifications given to us by the client and their designers. Their engineers oversaw that we built the facility to the drawings and specs. We used the specified materials and techniques. Nothing more I can add I'm afraid.

    Simple......


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    #45
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    cabledude wrote: »
    I hear ya. I suppose what I'm trying to get across is that the builders, whether they are main or sub contractors, followed the plans and the contracts. If they didn't follow the contract they would not have been paid for the work.

    If the contract stipulated that the roof be made of pallets and clad in straw, thats what they would have done.

    The designers who designed and the engineers who supervised the build will have to most questions here. Thats the simple fact.

    Suppose the builders were to get a phone call from the investigator.

    It would probably go something like this

    Investigator - Hello Mr. Builder, I'm wondering if you have anything to say about the recent failure of the roof in the Apex complex in New Ross during the storm of 12th Feb?

    Builder - Not a lot as it happens. Terrible storm. We built the facility using the plans and specifications given to us by the client and their designers. Their engineers oversaw that we built the facility to the drawings and specs. We used the specified materials and techniques. Nothing more I can add I'm afraid.

    Simple......

    if only it was that simple. alas, thats not how things work.


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    #46
    cabledude
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭cabledude


    I heard today, from a very reliable source, that all the staff of the Apex were left go today.

    The insurance does not extend to protecting the wages of the staff while the repairs are being carried out.

    Sad.


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    #47
    Dilbert75
    Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    Heard that too. I was shocked and horrified.


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    #48
    oldyouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    Anyone know how long repairs are expected to take?

    Bad news for the staff


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    #49
    Dilbert75
    Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    I've not heard yet and, despite having a membership, haven't yet been contacted about what's happening, which is very poor form.


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    #50
    cabledude
    Registered Users Posts: 842 ✭✭✭cabledude


    oldyouth wrote: »
    Anyone know how long repairs are expected to take?

    Bad news for the staff
    There is talk of it taking 6 months. I know some of the staff. Sickening stuff.
    Dilbert75 wrote: »
    I've not heard yet and, despite having a membership, haven't yet been contacted about what's happening, which is very poor form.
    They have been all over Facebook saying that direct debits have been suspended.

    Also, here is what they said yesterday. (I put this up in case you are not on FB)
    Over
    the last week, we have tried contacting all customers regarding swimming lessons
    and membership queries. For those of whom we were unable to speak with directly,
    the following phone number & email is now active and we would be happy to
    assist you with your queries. The telephone number is 051445522. Once you are
    connected please press 9 to leave a message and we will return your call ASAP or
    else email us at info@theapex.ie
    We
    look forward to welcoming all our customers back when we reopen and thank you
    all for your continued support.


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    #51
    Dilbert75
    Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    I saw that but they got my name, address, phone numbers and email address - but have been unable to contact me (or one of the guys I work with either). I don't think it's adequate to put a post on Facebook and invite people to contact them. Communication with customers remains a very weak point with Apex management.


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