Difference between chuig, go dtí, go and chun?

beguilingrogue

I got this from another website:
"Ok, I'll explain you how it works in Ulster Irish; it is different in the other dialects.

In Ulster, you use "chun" when the noun is a place, and is preceded by the article (an or na).

You use "chuig" (pronounced "chuige" in Ulster) when the noun is an event or a person.

You use "go dtí" only when you go as far as a place, and no further.

You use "go" when the noun is a place and is not preceded by the article.

So:

Téim chun an tí, chun na háite sin, chun an Bhuna Bhig, chun na dtithe tábhairne, etc (places with the article).

Téim chuig comórtas, chuig an choirm cheoil, téim chuig mo chara (events and people).

Téim go dtí an abhainn. When you say "téim go dtí an scoil" in Ulster it means that you go till you are in front of the door of the school, and then you stop there.

Téim go Toraigh, go Baile Átha Cliath, go teach mo chara (places, without any article before them).


Now, in other dialects, "go dtí" doesn't mean "until... and no further", but just "to", so they often use "go dtí" instead of "chun"."

This seems, to my ignorant view, like a good answer. Would anybody have corrections on this? Is it possible to use "go dtí" without "an" after it? Or is it always "go" then? What is the difference between "go dtí" and "go"? Does any dialect use "chuig" followed by a proper noun? "chuig an nGaeltacht"? "chuig an nGaillimh"?

mr chips

A few thoughts:
Chuig is simply written and pronounced chuig, not chuige (which means to him/it). It's used as you have indicated, to say that you're going to some sort of event. Tá mé ag dul chuig ceolchoirm / chuig cruinniú / chuig cóisir / chuig tórramh / chuig drámá / chuig taispeántas ealaíne. I'm going to a concert / meeting / party / funeral / play / art exhibition.

Go dtí would normally be used with non-specific/non-named destinations using the definite article. So "Tá mé ag dul go dtí an banc / go dtí an siopa" = I'm going to the bank / to the shop.
Using the title/given name of your destination, such as Ulster Bank or Tesco, means you would simply use "go", not "go dtí" - Tá mé ag dul go Banc Ulaidh / Tá mé ag dul go Tesco. You shouldn't use "chuig" here, although a lot of people do.

Where your destination uses the genitive, such as "oifig an phoist" or "lár na cathrach", you also use go - "Tá mé ag dul go hoifig an phoist / go lár na cathrach". Again, you should never use "go dtí" here - not 100% sure about "chuig", I'd have to double-check.

With me so far? Grand!

Ok, the difference between "Tá mé ag dul ar scoil" and "Tá mé ag dul go dtí an scoil" is the same as the difference between "I'm going to school" and "I'm going to the school". The former means to attend school, as a pupil or as a place of work, while the latter means e.g. to meet a teacher, drop off a delivery, or whatever - it's merely a destination as opposed to something in which you participate or have a particular connection with.
So "ag dul ar" implies some sort of participation/attendance - "Tá mé ag dul ar obair" means I'm going to work, "Tá mé ag dul ar Aifreann" means I'm going to Mass. (You also have phrases like "Tá mé ag dul ar saoire/ar an drabhlas" - I'm going on holiday / on the pi$$.)
You can also say "Tá mé ag dul chun na hoibre/chun na Gaeltachta". But if you use "chun", you should follow it with the genitive case.

For the majority of town names, you use "go" - Tá mé ag dul go Béal Feirste / go Baile Átha Cliath etc.
Where the name of a town includes the definite article "an" (an Ómaigh, an Baile Meánach, an Chorr Críochach), you don't use "go" but "go dtí" - Tá mé ag dul go dtí an Ómaigh / I'm going to Omagh.
I believe it's also acceptable to use "chun" here as well - Tá mé ag dul chun na hÓmaighe. However, to return to the example you gave, Gaillimh doesn't include "an", so you would never use "chun na Gaillimhe / go dtí an Ghaillimh" - both of these are incorrect, so stick with "go Gaillimh".

Countries (which are normally feminine, IIRC) usually include the definite article (the) - an Fhrainc, an Ghearmáin. This means you follow the same rule as before and use "go dtí" or "chun" - Tá mé ag dul go dtí an Ghearmáin / go dtí na Stáit Aontaithe / Tá mé ag dul chun na Fraince.
Notable exceptions off the top of my head are Éirinn, Alba and Sasana - these do not include the definite article, so you simply use "go" - Tá mé ag dul go Sasana. (EDIT - a couple of others are Meicsiceo and Veiniséala. Some other South American & African countries follow suit, don't know for sure which ones, nor why this should be!)
Plus if you want to say "I'm going to the United States of America", as opposed to simply "the United States", you're now using a genitive, so it's like "oifig an phoist" - Tá mé ag dul go Stáit Aontaithe Mheiriceá".

As far as I know, this all applies across all dialects in Ireland - not just in Ulster. Be interested to see a more qualified answer on that one ....

beguilingrogue

mr chips wrote: »

A few thoughts:
Chuig is simply written and pronounced chuig, not chuige (which means to him/it). It's used as you have indicated, to say that you're going to some sort of event. Tá mé ag dul chuig ceolchoirm / chuig cruinniú / chuig cóisir / chuig tórramh / chuig drámá / chuig taispeántas ealaíne. I'm going to a concert / meeting / party / funeral / play / art exhibition.

Go dtí would normally be used with non-specific/non-named destinations using the definite article. So "Tá mé ag dul go dtí an banc / go dtí an siopa" = I'm going to the bank / to the shop.
Using the title/given name of your destination, such as Ulster Bank or Tesco, means you would simply use "go", not "go dtí" - Tá mé ag dul go Banc Ulaidh / Tá mé ag dul go Tesco. You shouldn't use "chuig" here, although a lot of people do.

Where your destination uses the genitive, such as "oifig an phoist" or "lár na cathrach", you also use go - "Tá mé ag dul go hoifig an phoist / go lár na cathrach". Again, you should never use "go dtí" here - not 100% sure about "chuig", I'd have to double-check.

With me so far? Grand!

Ok, the difference between "Tá mé ag dul ar scoil" and "Tá mé ag dul go dtí an scoil" is the same as the difference between "I'm going to school" and "I'm going to the school". The former means to attend school, as a pupil or as a place of work, while the latter means e.g. to meet a teacher, drop off a delivery, or whatever - it's merely a destination as opposed to something in which you participate or have a particular connection with.
So "ag dul ar" implies some sort of participation/attendance - "Tá mé ag dul ar obair" means I'm going to work, "Tá mé ag dul ar Aifreann" means I'm going to Mass. (You also have phrases like "Tá mé ag dul ar saoire/ar an drabhlas" - I'm going on holiday / on the pi$$.)
You can also say "Tá mé ag dul chun na hoibre/chun na Gaeltachta". But if you use "chun", you should follow it with the genitive case.

For the majority of town names, you use "go" - Tá mé ag dul go Béal Feirste / go Baile Átha Cliath etc.
Where the name of a town includes the definite article "an" (an Ómaigh, an Baile Meánach, an Chorr Críochach), you don't use "go" but "go dtí" - Tá mé ag dul go dtí an Ómaigh / I'm going to Omagh.
I believe it's also acceptable to use "chun" here as well - Tá mé ag dul chun na hÓmaighe. However, to return to the example you gave, Gaillimh doesn't include "an", so you would never use "chun na Gaillimhe / go dtí an Ghaillimh" - both of these are incorrect, so stick with "go Gaillimh".

Countries (which are normally feminine, IIRC) usually include the definite article (the) - an Fhrainc, an Ghearmáin. This means you follow the same rule as before and use "go dtí" or "chun" - Tá mé ag dul go dtí an Ghearmáin / go dtí na Stáit Aontaithe / Tá mé ag dul chun na Fraince.
Notable exceptions off the top of my head are Éirinn, Alba and Sasana - these do not include the definite article, so you simply use "go" - Tá mé ag dul go Sasana. (EDIT - a couple of others are Meicsiceo and Veiniséala. Some other South American & African countries follow suit, don't know for sure which ones, nor why this should be!)
Plus if you want to say "I'm going to the United States of America", as opposed to simply "the United States", you're now using a genitive, so it's like "oifig an phoist" - Tá mé ag dul go Stáit Aontaithe Mheiriceá".

As far as I know, this all applies across all dialects in Ireland - not just in Ulster. Be interested to see a more qualified answer on that one ....

Brilliant answer, one for me to copy and paste into my notes. So much there to learn and remember. Thanks so much.

Anybody else know the full uses of 'chuig'? I like that "event/person" guideline for its use a lot. Could one, for instance, say "chuig an Mhí" or "chuig an Lú" or "chuig an gClár" (if so, does it get the urú?)? And looking at the potafocal entry, why isn't it "chuig an gceolchoirm" rather than "chuig an cheoilchoirm" etc? (preposition & article = urú) I see "chuig an Bhriotáin" on the above potafocal entry for "chuig" so I'm wondering is that technically correct.

beguilingrogue

Would anybody know what the difference is between "i nGaeltacht" and "sa Ghaeltacht", or indeed "i nGaeilge" and "sa Ghaeilge"?

Is it as simple as "in a Gaeltacht" v. "in the Gaeltacht", and "in Irish" v. "in the Irish"? Is one more correct than the other?

mr chips

Not always - if you want to tell someone that you live in the Connemara Gaeltacht, you'd say "Tá cónaí orm i nGaeltacht Chonamara". Literally translated, this would be "I live in the Gaeltacht of Connemara" - the definite article is implied when using the genitive case, so the word "an" (or in this instance, "sa") is not required. However if you just wanted to say that you live in the Gaeltacht, you'd use "sa" - "Tá cónaí orm sa Ghaeltacht".

On the other hand, "i nGaeilge" and "sa Ghaeilge" are often used interchangeably - this a bit of an exception though, as sa does mean "in the". Of course, what's commonly accepted in one language is not necessarily going to translate directly into another, so if speaking or writing in Irish it's perfectly normal to say e.g. "scríobh sé chugam sa Ghearmáinis", or "he wrote to me in the German" - a structure which only exists in English as a Hiberno-English colloquialism.

Apologies if this is confusing, I don't know if I'm explaining it very clearly!