Bipod question

Hillhunter

Having fitted my dolphin Trakker bipod to my ftr rifle , the gun doesn't track back to point of impact even though I have 4 bullets touching at 300 yards. I can never seem to see the bullet landing, I am using a sand bag at the rear and don't know what is wrong , is it my technique ? Is it the sand bag , ? would appreciate someone's input on this , the rifle could go left ,right , up , at any time once the shot is gone off. I have tried pulling back hard and soft on the recoil pad , all seems to make no difference,

Mr.Flibble

If you're getting a 1 inch group at 300yds who cares where the bipod is going?

IIABDFI

Hillhunter

I'm getting less than 1inch , but I thought the thing should track back to point of impact, several times I nearly went for another board on the range, I keep having to check the board number after every shot

Cass

If you are holding sub 1 inch groups at 300 yards then trigger pull, breathing, and other techniques are not the issue. The issue may lie in your recoil management and also in the position of your butt pad to the bore line.

The bore line is the imaginary line that runs through the centre of the bore (barrel) and on out to the butt of the rifle. The butt pad should be positioned so that your shoulder (on the butt pad) is directly in line with this line. If the butt pad is higher or lower than the centre line it will create flyers at 6 and 12 o clock on the target or cause muzzle flip after the shot is fired. Even the best bipod cannot fully compensate for this so i would look at that first. So if you don't already have the butt pad in this bore line then i would suggest moving it.

The second thing is the pressure you exert when firing. The pressure on the butt pad must be constant throughout your shot. A slight variance when firing and even if your groups do not open up it can create the same muzzle flip effect from an incorrectly aligned butt pad.

The third thing i would work on is your body position. Some people prefer to shot lying to the side while others prefer to be directly behind the rifle and allow the whole body to absorb the recoil. I cannot say one is better than the other as each shooter must figure out which position suits them the best. The results will show themselves in not only continued good grouping, but much better battery and the ability to stay on target after each shot.


The last thing would be the position of the bipod in terms of height. I found when the bipod was too high or too low i was craning to see through the scope and this had a knock on effect on my recoil management even though the groups remained tight.


One piece of advise i would give i to have someone with a bit of experience watch you shoot and take notes of how you act. Do you lift your head as soon as the shot is fired? Do you stay on the rifle for a few seconds after? Do you drop your head due to cramp in your neck? Your body position, grip, how the bipod acts after each firing, etc, etc.


Never hurts to have a second set of eyes.

Hillhunter

thanks Cass, that is great info, i will check all of that and come back

IRLConor

Cass wrote: »

One piece of advise i would give i to have someone with a bit of experience watch you shoot and take notes of how you act. Do you lift your head as soon as the shot is fired? Do you stay on the rifle for a few seconds after? Do you drop your head due to cramp in your neck? Your body position, grip, how the bipod acts after each firing, etc, etc.


Never hurts to have a second set of eyes.

It's also worth setting up a camera to video yourself. A lot of laptops have cameras built into the top of the screen so you can just prop it up beside you. If you can get your hands on a good video camera great, but a laptop with a built-in webcam will do 90% of what you need. It can be done with a phone too, but it's harder to get it set up and videoing usually murders the battery.

You'd be surprised how easy it is to spot errors in your own position/technique. You just can't see it when you're down behind the rifle. Being able to scan back and forth and look at stuff in slow motion is a huge help too. Plus you can get input from other shooters a little more easily.

wildcatares22

Cass wrote: »

The third thing i would work on is your body position. Some people prefer to shot lying to the side while others prefer to be directly behind the rifle and allow the whole body to absorb the recoil. I cannot say one is better than the other as each shooter must figure out which position suits them the best. The results will show themselves in not only continued good grouping, but much better battery and the ability to stay on target after each shot.


The last thing would be the position of the bipod in terms of height. I found when the bipod was too high or too low i was craning to see through the scope and this had a knock on effect on my recoil management even though the groups remained tight.


One piece of advise i would give i to have someone with a bit of experience watch you shoot and take notes of how you act. Do you lift your head as soon as the shot is fired? Do you stay on the rifle for a few seconds after? Do you drop your head due to cramp in your neck? Your body position, grip, how the bipod acts after each firing, etc, etc.

That's some good advice there cass.

one question though, would you say that the POI would vary from different shooting positions? as in if you set up the scope and zero from the bench and then change to prone or standing.

I find if I set up my scope in standing position when I go prone I have to uncomfortably crank my head back to get good sight through the scope.

would you recommend setting and zeroing the scope in any particular position?

Cass

I always zero from the prone position.

When sitting at a bench your body position is different and the scope tends to be "closer" to the rear of the stock. When i first started i used to zero while sitting at the bench but when i lay down i had to crane backward to see a clear target image. In the end i had to loosen the scope, rings and all, and move it forward about 1/4" (6mm) on the rail.

Now in the beginning this would affect POI, but later on when i had my rifle tuned to perfection i used to do a "trick". Ask Dev110, ruger1894c, fish slapped, etc.

I can lay down at the 1,000 yard firing position. I can loosen the scope/rings move the scope forward or back, and without having to adjust my zero at all hit the exact same POI at 1,000 yards. Now it's not so much a trick, and the movement is only 1/4" either direction, but the peace of mind it gives when you know you can do it without suffering any loss in POI is great.


The point being zero the rifle for the position you shoot in. No point in it being a tack driver when seated but unclear or "off" when prone (or whatever position you fire from). It's all about repeatability. The last thing you need to worry about is how your rifle is set up. So when zeroing, get down at 100 yards, lay out your mat, set up the rfile/bipod, etc. Get yourself into your regular firing position (body wise), and then fire your zeroing shots.

Once you have it zero your turrets, and if you want to shoot from the bench you can adjust the scope, but frankly i rarely shot my FTR rifle from the bench as 99% of my shooting is prone. The only time it was shot of a bench was during BR comps. Hence the reason i had my rifle set up that i could move it that 1/4" back so i wasn't pulling back, and affecting the shoulder pressure on the butt pad/rear of the stock which would have lead to a change in POI or opening of the groups.


I hope i explained that somewhat clearly. I have a habit of rambling and typing as i think so sometimes what i try to say does not come out so clearly.

Hillhunter

Had someone look at my position behind the rifle last night, (didnt half look stupid lying in the sitting room dry firing), my body seemed to be too far off centre, will have to remember that when on the range, so it is practice, practice, also it seemed my cheek piece was way too low as in i was always stretching to see through the scope, i now have that raised and i have a more natural posture on the rifle. As far as the butt pad is concerned it was at the correct height , but i was told to turn this slightly at an angle to make it sit better in the shoulder pocket, i have it now about 15 degrees off to the left as i shoot from my right shoulder, is this correct?, I must say that the rifle feels better in this position,(in the sitting room) and i am more comfortable lying on it than before, whether i shoot better and keep my point of impact i will have to wait until the weekend to see, thanks again for the help.

Cass

Hillhunter wrote: »

........... i have it now about 15 degrees off to the left as i shoot from my right shoulder, is this correct?...........

That is how mine was.

It had to be in a position that when i was down behind the rifle it fitted perfectly and repeatably into my shoulder pocket each time. Again all about consistency and repeatability.

The cheek piece is also important. No point in having one if you are still holding your head rather than using the cheek piece. The key, i found, was not to jam the head down onto it but have it touching my cheek/face in the same point while giving my the most central view through the scope without any cramping in the neck.

While a slight degree of neck cramping occurs when you start shooting in the prone position over time this should disappear as you become more and more use to shooting in that position, however if it continues after weeks/months (basically everytime you lie down) then your position is wrong, and it's not just the cheek riser/face position, but also your body position in relation to the rifle.

It wasn't me!

I get a stiff neck after shooting prone for a couple of hours, but before that, it really shouldn't be a problem. I rest the full weight of my head on the cheekpiece and consciously relax the neck. Your head is a big feck-off weight so there's no need to mash it down in addition, but take all the strain out of your neck and shoulders. You certainly won't shoot worse, but you'll be more comfortable anyway.

Hillhunter

sound lads, will see how Sat goes and report back.

Hillhunter

Went to comp today,thanks for all the help , between my body position and my grip I shot much better and seen at least 90 percent of shots landing on the board , thanks again, it's all down to practice now

Cass

How did you find recoil? Were you able to retain target picture after each shot?

Hillhunter

Recoil was fine , I was able to retain target picture on all shots, definitely posture, grip etc helped

Hillhunter

Update on my technique , went to range today , seen all shots landing at 900 and 1000 ,not a bad score , just have to learn wind effect ( that will be a struggle ) but to cap it off I hit a clay at 1200 , thanks for the help

Cass

Hillhunter wrote: »

........just have to learn wind effect.......

If ya figure out a sure fire way to do that let us all know.

Hillhunter

Be back to you in 10 years