Kenny declares war on welfare culture

tayto lover

Uriel. wrote: »

You need to shop around to be honest. Got all that done a few months ago in Dublin City centre for €50.

They obviously saw you coming? Wasn't Nidgy's dentist was it?

I wonder if he needs crowns?

Gatling

who_ru wrote: »

Correct - i went to the dentist a while back, was in the chair for approx 20mins, got a cleaning, polishing and other bits. no fillings, extractions, or any other work.

150 euro.

i was shocked to say the least.

Welfare is not just dole payments either, child benefit is in the welfare budget as well as a host of other benefits, i mean we were handing out millions to people to kit their kids out for communion!!
.

They stopped handing out money for Communions/ religious ceremonies a good while back

Tracy Alman

Judging from all the shyte comments on here, it seems that its the unemployed that brought the economy and the country to its knees and to the door of the IMF.
Have you all forgotten about the 3 retired taoiseach's that are presently in receipt of well in excess of 100000 Euro per annum not including the cars and two driver for each car, the muliple fat pensions being paid to serving EU ministers, the past presidents still very much alive and receiving benefits as I write all the ex ministers of fat pensions and serving on numerous state quango's.

HAVE you all forgotten the BANKSTERS and PROPERTY DEVELOPERS ( not one has been charged to date) some of whom are employed by that great thing called NAMA. AHHHHH YESSS POSTERS with typical Irish Style and with "OOR INDA" as cheerleader you attack the most vulnerable AHHH YESS the "craw thumpin Irish" good honest Catholics attack the least able to defend themselves, WELL BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES you misguided cretins

dave ireland

I'm even doing some hours for nothing I fin at 0800 but it takes 30mins to pack up and make the job safe, I do not mind that, that's just the way things are. If I'm called up to the office and told to take another pay cut (I'm out).

No mather how good or safe you think you are, if there's Guys out there willing to work for €7 or €8 P/H your boss will take them on.

Idbatterim

Judging from all the shyte comments on here, it seems that its the unemployed that brought the economy and the country to its knees and to the door of the IMF.
Have you all forgotten about the 3 retired taoiseach's that are presently in receipt of well in excess of 100000 Euro per annum not including the cars and two driver for each car, the muliple fat pensions being paid to serving EU ministers, the past presidents still very much alive and receiving benefits as I write all the ex ministers of fat pensions and serving on numerous state quango's.

HAVE you all forgotten the BANKSTERS and PROPERTY DEVELOPERS ( not one has been charged to date) some of whom are employed by that great thing called NAMA. AHHHHH YESSS POSTERS with typical Irish Style and with "OOR INDA" as cheerleader you attack the most vulnerable AHHH YESS the "craw thumpin Irish" good honest Catholics attack the least able to defend themselves, WELL BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES you misguided cretins

You think anyone will disagree with you about ex taoisigh pensions or other perks? or the bankers etc having taken and still continuing to take the piss?! thats for another thread though, if you start one, I'm sure we will all be right behind you!

who_ru

Uriel. wrote: »

You need to shop around to be honest. Got all that done a few months ago in Dublin City centre for €50.

They obviously saw you coming? Wasn't Nidgy's dentist was it?

a case of once bitten, twice shy.

won't happen again, i suppose the point i was trying to make is that the troika wanted to bring down costs to consumers in many protected areas like legal services, dentist, consultants etc but it hasn't happened.

it hasn't happened because the Govt/Edna doesn't want it to happen so they declare war on welfare recipients instead.

_Kaiser_

This is honestly the funniest thread I've read here in ages!
Come on now.. let's step back from the keyboards for a minute and THINK about this!

Enda Kenny...

- the man who reneged on virtually every pre-election promise the minute he got into power

- who has been more concerned with being a "good European" than representing the people who put him there

- who refuses point blank to debate outside the Dail and even there can't do it without resorting to petty name-calling or deflection tactics about whose party did what (as if ANY of the current parties have a spotless history)

- who's had several members of his party turn against him

- who 2.5 years on is STILL blaming FF on almost a daily basis

- who just had his pet-project referendum on abolishing the Seanad defeated, quite possibly due to the above arrogance and sending Bruton out to do the job for him

- who has a health minister (and party colleague) with apparently less maths ability than Cowen and Bertie having his competence openly questioned by TD's and the media

.. has suddenly decided he's going to be the one to sort out the welfare system?? A guy who has been in "public service" since 1975 and was "double-jobbing" himself for 30 years.

And you people believe it? It didn't occur to you that this might just be another populist attempt to win back his core voters after the 2 latest fiascos? An attempt to distract from these rather embarrassing issues, especially with the local/Euro elections coming up?

Oh and let's not forget Enda's idea of "incentivising" is to push young people back into their parents home (assuming the parents can afford to keep them that is!) or onto a plane. Or extending the massively-abused "Job Bridge" scheme to 18 months - but hey, if it reduces (hides!) the true extent of the problem then sure why not!

I give up. Yes of course Welfare needs to be reformed, but if anyone believes this cardboard cut-out of a "leader" who can't do anything without a prepared speech in front of him, is going to enact any meaningful change then I think you're in for a big disappointment!

Tracy Alman

I agree it is for another thread, but it makes my blood boil when I see/read attacks on the very people who had nothing to do with the present situation. The Gov. does this deliberately to deflect attention and all the Posters swallow it hook line and sinker

Tracy Alman

Thank God someone like you has a handle on this ass----e Kenny and indeed the present Gov.:)

road_high

Tracy Alman wrote: »

I agree it is for another thread, but it makes my blood boil when I see/read attacks on the very people who had nothing to do with the present situation. The Gov. does this deliberately to deflect attention and all the Posters swallow it hook line and sinker

But it's a 20 billion € public expenditure. It would be crazy of the govt not to reform/reduce this. In fact, that's why they were elected by most. Not for the gravy train to go on. Fair welfare yes. Indefinite "entitlements" no.

Padraig Mor

Tracy Alman wrote: »

HAVE you all forgotten the BANKSTERS and PROPERTY DEVELOPERS ( not one has been charged to date) some of whom are employed by that great thing called NAMA. AHHHHH YESSS POSTERS with typical Irish Style and with "OOR INDA" as cheerleader you attack the most vulnerable AHHH YESS the "craw thumpin Irish" good honest Catholics attack the least able to defend themselves, WELL BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES you misguided cretins

The banks, NAMA, etc only account for a small portion of Ireland's debt. The vast majority of Ireland's deficit and national debt is due to the massive public spending, two thirds of which goes on welfare and public pay. Cretins indeed....

SCOOP 64

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Or better still give them full time jobs and do the work that is being neglected
and replace council employees who retired.

That's what the gateway scheme is for. http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Gateway.aspx

Sand

I'm glad to see Enda Kenny is tackling welfare culture - would this welfare culture include tackling people who work as teachers for 4 years being entitled to 100K Euro lump sum plus a 30K annual pension in perpetuity? A man who has reached the age of 62 whilst only spending 4 years ( what, 6%?) of it in recognisable employment claiming such a pension would surely be a sign of welfare dependency. Surely the fight against welfare dependency begins at home?

Honestly, I believe there is a welfare dependancy culture in this country, but unlike Kenny I believe it extends to all levels of society. From the likes of Neary, Kenny and Bertie all the way down to the guys who have never known what a day's work feels like. If there is much difference.

While I agree with anything that would encourage young people back into education, I think schemes like TUS, FAS CE Schemes and now Gateway are not helping things. Take a married couple, with 2 children. One parent takes up one of these schemes. They take home roughly €425 for a 19.5 hour week. They keep their rent allowance, medical card, fuel allowance, etc. All for doing a job for €22 an hour! Where is the sense in that? There is NO incentive to take up employment.

meoklmrk91

Anyone who thinks that Enda Kenny will do anything meaningful to reform the welfare system is kidding themselves.

Like everything else in the last few years it will be the middle class and those who are most vulnerable who will be penalised in the last few years. The upper classes and the bottom feeders, for example my thirty something, drug dealing scumbag neighbour, with his rakes of children paid for by the state. who is currently driving a brand new car despite never having a job will continue to get away with it.

SCOOP 64

Deleted User wrote: »

While I agree with anything that would encourage young people back into education, I think schemes like TUS, FAS CE Schemes and now Gateway are not helping things. Take a married couple, with 2 children. One parent takes up one of these schemes. They take home roughly €425 for a 19.5 hour week. They keep their rent allowance, medical card, fuel allowance, etc. All for doing a job for €22 an hour! Where is the sense in that? There is NO incentive to take up employment.

First Ive heard about the gateway scheme, how does it work out at €425 a week, just for one parent claiming other not working?
Genuine queston, just had a quick look it, didn't see these figures?

downonthefarm

good man enda,i knew i didnt waste me vote on ya.
there is plenty of jobs out there for the young ones,

jonnny68

Elephant Man from china wrote: »

It was great to read an article like this.. Enda wants to do this but is being held back the scrounger supporting communists he is in coalition with.

It's a total joke that the middle classes are paying some of the highest effective tax rates in Europe but get the fewest services. While the scrounger class get literally everything for free and there is no push yo get them back to work / work for their benefits.they are being protected to the hilt by a government party. There is no reason for anyone in Dublin to be unemployed, the capital has full employment. Everyone knows this, but few will say it.





If Enda carries through with this he gets my vote in the next election

This is actually the biggest crock of sh*the I've read on here in a long time.

Surely you cannot be serious here

shruikan2553

jester77 wrote: »

The German system is a lot fairer when you are suddenly unemployed, it pays around 66% of your previous years salary for 12 months. This means that you don't suddenly fall into a situation where you can't pay your bills as any properly functioning household can easily live from 66%.

It also does't reward long term unemployment, unlike the Irish system. Once the 12 months are up and you are still unemployed then you have to liquidate assets in order to get further assistance. So if you have a big car, or 2 small cars, or a larger house than deemed necessary, etc. then these will all need to be sold off and only then will you get further assistance once you have used up the proceeds.

And even then you don't get anything like the handouts in Ireland. They will also set you up with work, and if you refuse to take the job your benefits are reduced until you are eventually left on the street.

I'm all for this kind of system but the 2 arguments against this are that families will be homeless (which is just helen lovejoy crap) and that they will turn to crime and end up costing us more. Are the german police just not the kind that take any ****? Could see harsh sentences make people less likely turn to crime and less people being on the less generous dole.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jank wrote: »

From what I hear Germany has it right. Welfare payments in Ireland are one of the highest in the world, not something that is sustainable given that we are broke and borrowing 1 Billion a month to pay the bills. Labour as usual blocking reform.

In Germany, they get 350 a month plus rent/bills (as far as I know). They also get free local transport. In real terms in Berlin, this is probably higher.

That said, you only sign on for 5 months at a time. Afte that, they automatically expire and you have to repply. Also, the jobcenter/welfare center are handled by the same people, so they can better gauge our efforts at looking for work.

creep

downonthefarm wrote: »

good man enda,i knew i didnt waste me vote on ya.
there is plenty of jobs out there for the young ones,

There's literally none

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

downonthefarm wrote: »

good man enda,i knew i didnt waste me vote on ya.
there is plenty of jobs out there for the young ones,

Ya haven't really researched that one, have you?

maguic24

creep wrote: »

There's literally none

I thought the same when I graduated last year, but there are jobs out there, you just have to look hard enough. I have a folder in my emails dedicated to job rejections and PFO emails...there are currently 117 emails in that folder and that's not even all of them. If you want a job badly enough, you will find one, guaranteed. I did.

murphaph

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

In Germany, they get 350 a month plus rent/bills (as far as I know). They also get free local transport. In real terms in Berlin, this is probably higher.

That said, you only sign on for 5 months at a time. Afte that, they automatically expire and you have to repply. Also, the jobcenter/welfare center are handled by the same people, so they can better gauge our efforts at looking for work.

In Berlin at least it's not free local public transport. Hartz IV recipients must pay €36 for a monthly pass. That's half the normal price.

SCOOP 64

downonthefarm wrote: »

good man enda,i knew i didnt waste me vote on ya.
there is plenty of jobs out there for the young ones,

creep wrote: »

There's literally none

Wasn't that sarcasm ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

murphaph wrote: »

In Berlin at least it's not free local public transport. Hartz IV recipients must pay €36 for a monthly pass. That's half the normal price.

Fair enough, I stand corrected if so. But 36 euro for fully integrated public trasnport for a full month is still a bloody good deal.

downonthefarm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Wasn't that sarcasm ?

sorry it doesnt carry too well over tinternet

Richard Hillman

No matter what you think about Welfare in Ireland, it cannot be denied that there is a welfare culture amongst a very sizable portion of the nation. Anybody from a working class background knows or are related to many people who have accepted welfare as their life.

People and certain politicians can smokescreen all they like. Everybody knows that we are not talking about Joe the builder that cant get any work anymore or Mary the customer service rep who's job got outsourced to India. We are talking about the "Hope ur Ok Hun"s of this world, who despite being a facebook parody, is a reality to many people both in a male and female format.

The truly sad thing is that they set such low standards for their kids that they continue as another Welfare Generation.

stateofflux

my granda was convinced that announcing "anyone that does not have a job by monday morning will be shot" will bring the unemployment rate to zero overnight. ...

downonthefarm

when times were good the same people were still on the scratcher,

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

stateofflux wrote: »

my granda was convinced that announcing "anyone that does not have a job by monday morning will be shot" will bring the unemployment rate to zero overnight. ...

Interesting. What were his opinions on creating 100% employment?

who_ru

Padraig Mor wrote: »

The banks, NAMA, etc only account for a small portion of Ireland's debt.

i wouldn't regard 64 billion as a small portion of anything, some estimates indicate a higher cost of 70+ billion euro.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/bank-bailout-cost-of-73bn-manageable-says-esri-26649376.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/70bn-the-total-cost-to-the-taxpayer-of-the-bank-bailout-but-bondholders-will-pay-nothing-150015.html

woodoo

I think it has finally dawned on the government that job creation alone will not be enough to get some people of welfare and back to work. They must simultaneously make a life on benefits more difficult and less of an easy ride. They see thousands of people still coming into Ireland to work yet some of the people here are not willing to take up these same jobs. Think of hotel staff, car washers, waitresses, shop assistants etc. All jobs that pay a wage but were left to immigrants to do. I'm sure Enda wants people coming off the dole queues doing that work again they way it was before the boom.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

woodoo wrote: »

I think it has finally dawned on the government that job creation alone will not be enough to get some people of welfare and back to work. They must simultaneously make a life on benefits more difficult and less of an easy ride. They see thousands of people still coming into Ireland to work yet some of the people here are not willing to take up these same jobs. Think of hotel staff, car washers, waitresses, shop assistants etc. All jobs that pay a wage but were left to immigrants to do. I'm sure Enda wants people coming off the dole queues doing that work again they way it was before the boom.

Hang on - aren't you massively anti-immigration...?

SCOOP 64

woodoo wrote: »

Think of hotel staff, car washers, waitresses, shop assistants etc. All jobs that pay a wage but were left to immigrants to do. I'm sure Enda wants people coming off the dole queues doing that work again they way it was before the boom.

But these are all internships now, not full time permanant work.

Richard Hillman

woodoo wrote: »

I think it has finally dawned on the government that job creation alone will not be enough to get some people of welfare and back to work. They must simultaneously make a life on benefits more difficult and less of an easy ride. They see thousands of people still coming into Ireland to work yet some of the people here are not willing to take up these same jobs. Think of hotel staff, car washers, waitresses, shop assistants etc. All jobs that pay a wage but were left to immigrants to do. I'm sure Enda wants people coming off the dole queues doing that work again they way it was before the boom.

I agree with what you are saying but a lot of the welfare classes are simply not employable in the services industry. There are not many people that would take a chance on somebody that seems a bit "rough". I am not talking necessarily about accents, but demeanour, politeness and general people skills.

I have spent a fair bit of time on the dole queue in my life. A lot of the "characters" down there wouldn't be touched with a barge pole. I think we need a real shift in culture of what is acceptable in society as people. There are a lot of people in society that need an education in how to act like a normal citizen.

And as I said in my previous post, it is generational. For every obnoxious woman effing and blinding at her kids whilst they run riot on a bus, those children are going to end up just like her. I seen a prime example of this last week. It is a shameless generation of people.

The_Honeybadger

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

First Ive heard about the gateway scheme, how does it work out at €425 a week, just for one parent claiming other not working?
Genuine queston, just had a quick look it, didn't see these figures?

It's not a flat rate It is based on your current entitlements, a married person with dependants may well get 400 plus, while a single person will get the basic rate of JA plus a small top up to cover travel and other expenses.

woodoo

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Hang on - aren't you massively anti-immigration...?

No not anti immigration, i'm anti mass immigration. I think we need to control the numbers a bit tighter. In my post above i'm saying that people should be taken off the dole queue to fill these jobs rather than have new people coming in to fill them.

Big Mouth

Richard Hillman wrote: »

No matter what you think about Welfare in Ireland, it cannot be denied that there is a welfare culture amongst a very sizable portion of the nation. Anybody from a working class background knows or are related to many people who have accepted welfare as their life.

People and certain politicians can smokescreen all they like. Everybody knows that we are not talking about Joe the builder that cant get any work anymore or Mary the customer service rep who's job got outsourced to India. We are talking about the "Hope ur Ok Hun"s of this world, who despite being a facebook parody, is a reality to many people both in a male and female format.

The truly sad thing is that they set such low standards for their kids that they continue as another Welfare Generation.

Can't mention that around here . The German system sounds very good as expected. Our main problem is the welfare trap of people being afraid to take temporary or part time employment.

God love people who are on the dole and desperate to work as that must be a hard situation, however there are so many in the comfort zone of welfare. I'm involved in a company trying to hire seasonal staff for retail and we cannot fill the positions (our requirements are for the person to have some enthusiasm, common sense and ability to work weekends).

Fair enough its only temporary work so not that appealing but when the odd person we can persuade to take up the work is asked have you any friends or family who might like to work here the answer is always NO, too much effort to sort out dole stuff

Slightly off topic but an English colleague of mine remarked that Irish people are always very quick to tell you what they CAN'T do whereas in England you will get people who will work 12 hours a day 7 days a week over Christmas for 6 quid an hour (I'm not saying anyone is asked to work remotely those kind of hours just that in the UK they WANT to keep grafting , earning and are happy to get the 6 quid an hour)

I believe our system holds back peoples potential as if people were pushed to work that bit more then they might get involved and learn an industry and excel in the company or go on to do their own thing, nothing beats experience in life.

The_Honeybadger

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I agree with what you are saying but a lot of the welfare classes are simply not employable in the services industry. There are not many people that would take a chance on somebody that seems a bit "rough". I am not talking necessarily about accents, but demeanour, politeness and general people skills.

I have spent a fair bit of time on the dole queue in my life. A lot of the "characters" down there wouldn't be touched with a barge pole. I think we need a real shift in culture of what is acceptable in society as people. There are a lot of people in society that need an education in how to act like a normal citizen.

And as I said in my previous post, it is generational. For every obnoxious woman effing and blinding at her kids whilst they run riot on a bus, those children are going to end up just like her. I seen a prime example of this last week. It is a shameless generation of people.

Sadly I agree with a lot of this. It is a massive challenge to upskill those that lack the basic social skills required to hold down even the most menial positions. Many of the people you are referring to will never work again realistically, even if we get close to full employment in the future.

aligator_am

Well, I hope this is of some use to someone here, Irish Water are looking for staff, google it.

I applied for an IT role they advertised on publicjobs.ie but some of you may be more successful, sure all you can do is try

Wicklowandy

I think we all know that the job figures are being massaged.

The majority of the unemployed would be working if there were jobs available. TUS and now the Gateway scheme do have a place giving work skills to people that need them. But the schemes are just being used to distort the live register.

I don't actually believe that there is net job creation in Ireland, contrary to what many posters believe. Every village in Ireland seems to have 10 people sweeping leaves for the TUS scheme.

Instead of pointless exercises like this, especially for the under 25 age group who possibly have had little opportunity to gain work skills and training, why not apprenticeships run on a new model?

I can see many projects that could contribute to the economy and communities, and give young people a chance to acquire skills which they will need to participate or emigrate.

Idbatterim

Slightly off topic but an English colleague of mine remarked that Irish people are always very quick to tell you what they CAN'T do whereas in England you will get people who will work 12 hours a day 7 days a week over Christmas for 6 quid an hour (I'm not saying anyone is asked to work remotely those kind of hours just that in the UK they WANT to keep grafting , earning and are happy to get the 6 quid an hour)

if they are paying the marginal rate, why would you bother? Also in the Uk, Im not surprised they would take on more hours, the pay and welfare are a good deal less in most cases...

Big Mouth

Idbatterim wrote: »

if they are paying the marginal rate, why would you bother? Also in the Uk, Im not surprised they would take on more hours, the pay and welfare are a good deal less in most cases...

Why would you bother? :eek: Well thanks for proving my point, if people weren't so comfortable not working then they might be bothered. Jesus your attitude is unreal, so you would agree with someone collecting the dole saying that they didn't take up a job because the pay was marginal!! Crazy Place

Idbatterim

Im saying the marginal rate of tax is ridiculous, i.e the one where as a single person if you earn over E32,800, the government are taking over 50c in the euro from you, I work in the family business and most staff wont take extra hours if earning over the threshold... My brother had worked about 2 days worth of overtime last month and was asked if he wanted it paid in wages or time off, he took time off, only because of ridiculous marginal rate of tax...

July Rain

Idbatterim wrote: »

Im saying the marginal rate of tax is ridiculous, i.e the one where as a single person if you earn over E32,800, the government are taking over 50c in the euro from you, I work in the family business and most staff wont take extra hours if earning over the threshold... My brother had worked about 2 days worth of overtime last month and was asked if he wanted it paid in wages or time off, he took time off, only because of ridiculous marginal rate of tax...

With all the tax credits people don't really people 50pc tax at 32,800

RichardAnd

aligator_am wrote: »

Well, I hope this is of some use to someone here, Irish Water are looking for staff, google it.

I applied for an IT role they advertised on publicjobs.ie but some of you may be more successful, sure all you can do is try

Whilst I commend your telling people this, the golden rule of looking for a job is that when you see one advertised, don't tell other people about it!

sarumite

tayto lover wrote: »

I would agree with paying out a reasonable dole on condition that those receiving it work at least 20 hours doing designated jobs in the community.

So what you mean is that you would support reducing the dole as long as the government gave everyone part time employment. If a person is working for money, then they are employed. As employed workers they would need to have other rights such as pensions, collective bargaining, annual leave entitlements etc.

SCOOP 64

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

First Ive heard about the gateway scheme, how does it work out at €425 a week, just for one parent claiming other not working?
Genuine queston, just had a quick look it, didn't see these figures?

€188 + €125 + (2 x 29.4) + €20 + Fuel allowance, child benefit, rent etc
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/jobseekers_benefit.html#l62fd2

Maura74

sarumite wrote: »

So what you mean is that you would support reducing the dole as long as the government gave everyone part time employment. If a person is working for money, then they are employed. As employed workers they would need to have other rights such as pensions, collective bargaining, annual leave entitlements etc.

Also the people would have to subsidise the part time worker to make it a living wage. Therefore benefits would still apply to people that have come the register for unemployment. This would not help any part time worker as they would not be able to get a mortgage as they would not be earning enough therefore that person would not be able to make a future for themselves. Also the taxpayer would be helping big organisations to profit at low wage and at the tax payer expense. Just like what is happening in the UK