Kenny declares war on welfare culture

creep

Sounds like you are struggling and want someone to blame so taking it out on people on welfare. Do you think people like been on welfare and that the country is booming with jobs. As for people sending in C.VS by hand that's just not viable anymore for nearly all companies. I don't think the tax system is bad at all. Much better than most countries in Europe actually

fliball123

creep wrote: »

Sounds like you are struggling and want someone to blame so taking it out on people on welfare. Do you think people like been on welfare and that the country is booming with jobs. As for people sending in C.VS by hand that's just not viable anymore for nearly all companies. I don't think the tax system is bad at all. Much better than most countries in Europe actually

Respond to my point..I am not blaming anyone for anything...But you cannot squeeze blood from a stone unfortunately..The money is not there for luxuries such as broadband..So as I say if you want to make any kind of argument you answer the question where do we get 20 Euro * 400k a month for this luxury..otherwise its a pointless exercise..

As for you comment about the tax system..so after 32k a year the tax man taxes an effective rate of 52 cent in every euro you earn..Thats not including the other taxation such as Dirt, Property tax, Car tax, Capital Gains Tax, Stamp duty, Capital Acquisitions Tax, VAT, Carbon tax, water rates (comming soon)...My taxes are better spend on schools, hospitals and infrastructure instead of luxuries for those on the dole who have 24 hours a day to do courses or all day to go to libraries for their computing needs...

How does your argument stack up when we are closing A&Es aswell as increasing school sizes and while the country is trying to ween itself off its current 1 billion a month credit dependancy you think its currently viable to provide free broadband to those on the dole a cost of 20 Euro a month * 400k thats 96000000 a year... So once again I ask you the question who pays for this?

creedp

fliball123 wrote: »

How does your argument stack up when we are closing A&Es aswell as increasing school sizes and while the country is trying to ween itself off its current 1 billion a month credit dependancy you think its currently viable to provide free broadband to those on the dole a cost of 20 Euro a month * 400k thats 96000000 a year... So once again I ask you the question who pays for this?

Why the fixation on paying for broadband at €20 pm or €5 per week? I've never seen any reference to ringfencing broadband in any SW payment. People receive a cash payment and they decide what to do with it. If this involves putting €5 per week towards a telephone/broadband service then so be it. Given that younger people on welfare could be living at home or sharing accommodation, its possible thatthey have access to broadand at no cost/much reduced cost to them. While we're at it lets forensically disect the €188 pw payment (or lower amount for under 25s) and decide what it should be spent on. Who knows, if people spend it in a frugal maner maybe Kenny could cut a few more bob off it.

fliball123

creedp wrote: »

Why the fixation on paying for broadband at €20 pm or €5 per week? I've never seen any reference to ringfencing broadband in any SW payment. People receive a cash payment and they decide what to do with it. If this involves putting €5 per week towards a telephone/broadband service then so be it. Given that younger people on welfare could be living at home or sharing accommodation, its possible thatthey have access to broadand at no cost/much reduced cost to them. While we're at it lets forensically disect the €188 pw payment (or lower amount for under 25s) and decide what it should be spent on. Who knows, if people spend it in a frugal maner maybe Kenny could cut a few more bob off it.

The reason for ring fencing is currently we do not give an allowance for broadband and the money is not there for it..If people want to get broadband from their social welfare then let them..Once the tax payer is not paying out any more then currently....Advesely it could be argued that if people on the dole can afford broadband then we are paying them too much in social welfare

creedp

fliball123 wrote: »

The reason for ring fencing is currently we do not give an allowance for broadband and the money is not there for it..If people want to get broadband from their social welfare then let them..Once the tax payer is not paying out any more then currently....Advesely it could be argued that if people on the dole can afford broadband then we are paying them too much in social welfare

That's my point there is no allowance for broadband so its up to welfare recipients to prioritise the funding of broadband it they so choose. I'd much prefer if they did so particularly if used for educational/researching/applying for jobs that spend it on fags or other less productive purposes.

creep

creedp wrote: »

That's my point there is no allowance for broadband so its up to welfare recipients to prioritise the funding of broadband it they so choose. I'd much prefer if they did so particularly if used for educational/researching/applying for jobs that spend it on fags or other less productive purposes.

Not the worst thing to spending it on fags, government gain most of it back.

creedp

creep wrote: »

Not the worst thing to spending it on fags, government gain most of it back.

OK beer so .. Oh wait!!

Gumbo

fliball123 wrote: »

absolute horse*** I went to college and they had labs which most third level have which were avaiilable to the student at a rate of 24/7....I did this part time whilst working full time and I never had a laptop at home..and the course I did was computer Science..As I say if you do a course in a structured environment it usually means that the environment is tailored to your course..In my case a lab full of computers were there for the student 24/7...

Where are these 24/7 free computers?
Most colleges have closing times, even internet coffee shops close at some stage, but they charge for the use.

So where are they?

Paulzx

fliball123 wrote: »

I find it gailing that people like creep want to in-pun an already over taxed and over burdened set of tax payers to pay for broadband so that they can sit at home..

Ehhh.........just because someone has broadband doesn't mean they sit at home all day looking at facebook and porn.

Don't apply your habits to everyone else:D

I doubt any entreprenur in Silicon Valley regards broadband as a luxury to be withheld from the masses. It makes the modern world go around

wexie

Paulzx wrote: »

Ehhh.........just because someone has broadband doesn't mean they sit at home all day looking at facebook and porn.

Don't apply your habits to everyone else:D

Forgot Reddit

Sheldons Brain

Ehhh.........just because someone has broadband doesn't mean they sit at home all day looking at facebook and porn.

Of course not, they go on Boards.ie.

Paulzx

fliball123 wrote: »

.My taxes are better spend on schools, hospitals and infrastructure instead of luxuries for those on the dole who have 24 hours a day to do courses or all day to go to libraries for their computing needs...who pays for this?

What is your issue with the dole? Over 200,000 people on it are only gone onto it since the recession started. Most of them worked for numerous years and never claimed a penny. Due to circumstances beyond their control they are now stuck paying mortgages whilst out of work...........yet you begrudge them an educational tool to up skill them and help them get a job. In fact you seem to begrudge them any support whatsoever.

I have no time for the long term dolers who never worked even when jobs were plentyfull but the reality is that the dole is now also claimed by a generation who would never have previously thought it possible that they would be on welfare i.e they have a strong work ethic and are loath to claim from the state.

You seem to look down your nose automatically at anyone that is not the brilliant "taxpayer" you claim to be. I have never claimed a cent on the dole but I'm glad i can feel more empathy than you towards people who are genuinely in trouble

robp

kceire wrote: »

Where are these 24/7 free computers?
Most colleges have closing times, even internet coffee shops close at some stage, but they charge for the use.

So where are they?

I think laptops and home internet are unnecessary in almost all courses. Its a nice tool but unless you have a crazy commute or a very demanding job there is ample time to study and do course work in college facilities. Early hours are for sleeping. The worst is argument is that laptops are useful for lectures. While in fact they are entirely unneeded in this environment and not only that but some profs ban them as they may cause problems.

fliball123

kceire wrote: »

Where are these 24/7 free computers?
Most colleges have closing times, even internet coffee shops close at some stage, but they charge for the use.

So where are they?

Well they are labs within Trinity College where I went and you could go in any time night or day...

srsly78

fliball123 wrote: »

Well they are labs within Trinity College where I went and you could go in any time night or day...

Yep, very popular for having a nap if you missed the last bus too :pac:

fliball123

Paulzx wrote: »

Ehhh.........just because someone has broadband doesn't mean they sit at home all day looking at facebook and porn.

Don't apply your habits to everyone else:D

I doubt any entreprenur in Silicon Valley regards broadband as a luxury to be withheld from the masses. It makes the modern world go around

I may have mistook Creep people on the dole of course have the option to pay for broadband out of their dole money..thats their choice..But under no circumstances shoud extra funds be given to provide free broadband for those on the dole

fliball123

Paulzx wrote: »

What is your issue with the dole? Over 200,000 people on it are only gone onto it since the recession started. Most of them worked for numerous years and never claimed a penny. Due to circumstances beyond their control they are now stuck paying mortgages whilst out of work...........yet you begrudge them an educational tool to up skill them and help them get a job. In fact you seem to begrudge them any support whatsoever.

I have no time for the long term dolers who never worked even when jobs were plentyfull but the reality is that the dole is now also claimed by a generation who would never have previously thought it possible that they would be on welfare i.e they have a strong work ethic and are loath to claim from the state.

You seem to look down your nose automatically at anyone that is not the brilliant "taxpayer" you claim to be. I have never claimed a cent on the dole but I'm glad i can feel more empathy than you towards people who are genuinely in trouble

First off I dont begrudge them the tool if they want it let them pay for it out of what they are already recieving ..my issue is the tax payer cannot afford the extra 100 million that would be needed to provide free broadband for everyone on the dole..FFS we are cutting special assistance aids to handicapped kids and people want free broadband..Only in this country could you get such an entitlement driven need instead of looking after people who are genuinely in trouble.

I dont look down my nose..I look at people on the dole who are getting med cards and allowances for every area whether its rent allowance or free prams..Yet the gobsh1t tax payer gets no assistance for the taxes they are paying..There is currently an inequality of service for people who are on the dole to those who are working and in my case in particular.

I have an 18 year old niece one kid already...She gets dole, free gaff, electy allowance, child allowance, free creche if she decides to get up off her bum to do a course..Not to mention money from the father which is under the table....And she is seriously thinking of going for number two as it means more money to her..

Now compare that to me and my wife..we both work have one kid...We have the costs of going to work (2 cars unfortunately) a big mortgage, creche fees as he is only 3...Now with the levels that our taxes have gone up over the last 5 years we cannot have a 2nd kid as we simply cannot afford it...So why is the system supporting people on the dole to have kids while the hard working tax payer are literally getting a taxation snip?

So thats where I am coming from..I have no problem with people paying for broadband out of their current payments...But under no circumstance should free broadband be provided for anyone as it is a luxury not a necessity

srsly78

Did anyone actually suggest people get a broadband allowance? I think people were rather saying that broadband is not a waste of money, compared to paying extra for Sky channels or buying fags.

fliball123

creep wrote: »

You really have no clue do you how important broadband is especially with people trying to upskill or when trying to get work. All proper courses you will need the internet for not joke FAS ones. Could you run a server or programming software or business suites on a computer in a library. Come back when you realise how important it is.

Could you do a job aptitude test in a library with computers that are 10 years old same as most internet cafes around. Your living in the stone age if you don't realise how important broadband is too people. You try doing a FYP or thesis without the internet at home or an assignment that is due the following day without the internet. Your talking ****e to be honest.

Each to their own I say about the mortgage fees, creche fees etc. It is their problem if they cannot get work. Maybe they should try and upskill and get the internet. The best I.T certs are all available on the internet. They should do some of them and maybe they might get a job.

You can get broadband for 20 quid a month so it is not that much money. But yea in my field it was a necessity and is the same for a lot of the unemployed.

Creep is touching on free broadband for people on the dole here ..so yeah there are people looking for it

fliball123

srsly78 wrote: »

Did anyone actually suggest people get a broadband allowance? I think people were rather saying that broadband is not a waste of money, compared to paying extra for Sky channels or buying fags.

See my earlier post..not looking for an allowance as such but for broadband for free...Do people on the dole get a sky allowance?

Harry Angstrom

fliball123 wrote: »

See my earlier post..not looking for an allowance as such but for broadband for free...Do people on the dole get a sky allowance?

Unemployed people will not be getting free broadband. I don't know why you're wasting so much time arguing against something that won't be happening in the first place.

fliball123

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Unemployed people will not be getting free broadband. I don't know why you're wasting so much time arguing against something that won't be happening in the first place.

I didnt start the argument..Creep made the argument that broadband should be free for those on the dole as it aids in sending out C.Vs and upskilling...I have simply tried to point out that it is a luxury and that the tax payer currently cannot afford the 100million a year that would be needed to implement this...

srsly78

Electricity was regarded as a luxury in the past, things change.

fliball123

srsly78 wrote: »

Electricity was regarded as a luxury in the past, things change.

How can you equate broadband with electricity..one you need for using the internet the other you need for heat, light, cooking, hot water (all of which would be fairly essential to people surviving)

srsly78

You could heat your house with coal or gas. Electricity is just a fancy luxury!

fliball123

srsly78 wrote: »

You could heat your house with coal or gas. Electricity is just a fancy luxury!

Ok well what about light?

srsly78

Gas lamps of course

But yeah noone needs broadband, sure you can still get internet via 56k dialup.

Borboletinha

I dont know the poster but I dont think its bitterness. We are a family with one child as well, NO MORTGAGE. I had to stop working cause creche is too expensive. At the same time we are about 10 euros above the cut off for any allowance. We want to buy our place bank says we earn too little, we try saving for a deposit social welfare says we have too much. Its like being in limbo really too poor to afford creche too rich to be "entitled" to anything.
Only in ireland it is easier and cheaper for the unemployed to have children. I tried to put my daughter in a community creche so I wouldnt have to give up my job but they are reserved for people getting benefits! Now why if you're not working you need creche?? Its unbelievable that you get a cheap place in a creche if you are unemployed. I for one would gladly give up child benefit for a place to leave my daughter that didnt cost the same as my wages.

mariaalice

Borboletinha wrote: »

I dint know the poster but I dint think its bitterness. We are a family with one child as well, NO MORTGAGE. I had to stop working cause crèche is too expensive. At the same time we are about 10 euros above the cut off for any allowance. We want to buy our place bank says we earn too little, we try saving for a deposit social welfare says we have too much. Its like being in limbo really too poor to afford crèche too rich to be "entitled" to anything.
Only in Ireland it is easier and cheaper for the unemployed to have children. I tried to put my daughter in a community crèche so I wouldn't have to give up my job but they are reserved for people getting benefits! Now why if you're not working you need crèche?? Its unbelievable that you get a cheap place in a crèche if you are unemployed. I for one would gladly give up child benefit for a place to leave my daughter that didn't cost the same as my wages.

It is awful to be in you situation and you are frustrated with the situation however how would blaming and getting annoyed at people who are unemployed help your situation. If welfare was abolished it would not make crèches cheaper nor make you job pay more.

Borboletinha

mariaalice wrote: »

It is awful to be in you situation and you are frustrated with the situation however how would blaming and getting annoyed at people who are unemployed help your situation. If welfare was abolished it would not make crèches cheaper nor make you job pay more.

Im not blaming nobody in fact I think welfare is very much necessary people should be able to eat and have a roof over their heads regardless. I was only defending the poster who was called bitter for stating the fact that in ireland there are no incentives or rewards for people who work and/or save. Families are in a lot of cases better off not working and throwing caution to the wind and spending every last cent cause then you are considered "vulnerable" , get all help under the sun, pay no tax, spend all time with your kids as a family and still find reasons to complain and whine that "the country is a disgrace"
Finally, I couldnt possibly be annoyed at "the unemployed people" since I am one of them, albeit without the "benefits" and not by option, it just didnt make sense given the creche prices.

Paulzx

fliball123 wrote: »

...But under no circumstance should free broadband be provided for anyone as it is a luxury not a necessity

Who the hell said that should happen?

Paulzx

fliball123 wrote: »

I dont look down my nose..I look at people on the dole who are getting med cards and allowances for every area whether its rent allowance or free prams..Yet the gobsh1t tax payer gets no assistance for the taxes they are paying..There is currently an inequality of service for people who are on the dole to those who are working and in my case in particular.

I have an 18 year old niece one kid already...She gets dole, free gaff, electy allowance, child allowance, free creche if she decides to get up off her bum to do a course..Not to mention money from the father which is under the table....And she is seriously thinking of going for number two as it means more money to her..

Now compare that to me and my wife..we both work have one kid...We have the costs of going to work (2 cars unfortunately) a big mortgage, creche fees as he is only 3...Now with the levels that our taxes have gone up over the last 5 years we cannot have a 2nd kid as we simply cannot afford it...So why is the system supporting people on the dole to have kids while the hard working tax payer are literally getting a taxation snip?

I'm one of those taxpayers that receives nothing and pays for everything also.

However, I'm not blinkered or bitter enough to class every person on the doll as the same as your deadbeat niece

Sheldons Brain

"I'm one of those taxpayers that receives nothing"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

chopper6

fliball123 wrote: »

Now compare that to me and my wife..we both work have one kid...We have the costs of going to work (2 cars unfortunately) a big mortgage, creche fees as he is only 3

So you borrowed more than you could afford to pay back?

Reckless borrowing is what caused the economic crisis.

You've moaned aboput the PS in almost every thread you've been involved in and now you've switched your sights to people on the dole.

Nobody forced you to borrow money,nobody at all.

wexie

chopper6 wrote: »

So you borrowed more than you could afford to pay back?

Reckless borrowing is what caused the economic crisis.

You've moaned aboput the PS in almost every thread you've been involved in and now you've switched your sights to people on the dole.

Nobody forced you to borrow money,nobody at all.

where does it say he can't afford to pay his mortgage?

bit of a leap there.

Sand

chopper6 wrote: »

Reckless borrowing is what caused the economic crisis.

No, its not. Reckless borrowing causes personal bankruptcy. What caused the economic crisis in Ireland at least was a mixture of reckless lending, regulatory failures from at least 2003 onwards, and the Greena Fail guarantee in Sept 2008.

No one gives a toss if you borrowed 100 thousand you cant pay back. That's a Tuesday. It's only a problem when the bank has lent 100 billion it cant recover. That's a crisis for the bank. Its only a problem for me when idiots in the Greens and Fianna Fail decide to throw me and other taxpayers under the bus for it. Then its an economic crisis.

@Sheldons Brain

"I'm one of those taxpayers that receives nothing"

Your "What have the Romans ever done for us?" would be more impressive if the Irish government reputation for efficiency (brutal or otherwise) was in any way comparable to the Romans. Irish public services are shockingly poor and ineffective for the vast amounts of money spent on them. The vast majority of taxpayers receive very little back for the taxes they pay - Gardai who are essentially powerless in the face of persistent, low level criminality, a judiciary which rings in their judgements from another planet, a health service that's toxic, and a civil service that one can only assume isn't *trying* to be terrible. The best an Irish taxpayer can hope for is never to be in a position where they are relying on the public sector to help them.

maguic24

There is a serious welfare culture in this country and I, for one, am glad Kenny is starting to do something about it!!! At one stage you were nearly better off on the dole then trying to scrap by working. The working class in this country pay ridiculously high taxes and are entitled to nothing. I wouldn't mind paying high taxes if I got something for it i.e. Sweden. I remember in school one girl being asked what she wanted to do when she left school. She replied saying she wanted to have a kid, get a free house and stay on the dole....the fudge like??

I feel sorry for people who have worked their whole lives and end up losing their job, however, I totally agree with the dole cut to the under-25's of this country. And before someone goes ape-sh*t at me, I am 22 and I was unemployed for 5 months after leaving college. I got a job out of sheer desperation! There are jobs out there and there is always the option to emigrate and see the world. I don't know why people are so adverse to this notion, if you are under 25, the world is your oyster and you should embrace it. If you are determined to find a job, you will. Rant over!!

sarumite

maguic24 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind paying high taxes if I got something for it i.e. Sweden.

Have you lived and worked in Sweden? Sweden is far from the socialist paradise people on here portray it to be.

creedp

Sand wrote: »

Your "What have the Romans ever done for us?" would be more impressive if the Irish government reputation for efficiency (brutal or otherwise) was in any way comparable to the Romans. Irish public services are shockingly poor and ineffective for the vast amounts of money spent on them. The vast majority of taxpayers receive very little back for the taxes they pay - Gardai who are essentially powerless in the face of persistent, low level criminality, a judiciary which rings in their judgements from another planet, a health service that's toxic, and a civil service that one can only assume isn't *trying* to be terrible. The best an Irish taxpayer can hope for is never to be in a position where they are relying on the public sector to help them.

Whatever else you may not be .. you are certainly a glass half full person!!

fliball123

chopper6 wrote: »

So you borrowed more than you could afford to pay back?

Reckless borrowing is what caused the economic crisis.

You've moaned aboput the PS in almost every thread you've been involved in and now you've switched your sights to people on the dole.

Nobody forced you to borrow money,nobody at all.

Do you see me asking for anyone else's help to pay back my mortgage? No so you or any of the other 1.8 million people paying income tax will not be effected by my mortgage or what I pay for my mortgage so frankly its none of yours or anyone elses business on here...

More to that point I think anyone who cant afford a mortgage for their house should have the house taken off them and sold and the debt left with that person..I as a tax payer on top of paying for all of the loony leftie decisions do not want to pay for the raving righties thoughts that people should remain in their house at all costs..As those costs normally transfer to the tax payer.

I moan about what I see as clear abnormalities within what is our Country..As I pointed out the welfare system is encouraging girls to have kids as it means a bigger pay day and and suppressing people who are working to have them. Why is that?

Also the P.S are paid more here than their private sector counterparts and are also the highest paid of all of the countries that are currently in a bailout...Why is that?

So you will forgive me if at a time that I am struggling and not only me but the country is still borrowing a billion a month and over 200billion in debt and I see people who are not working getting things that I simply cannot afford which is being paid for out of my back pocket in taxes

You will also forgive me if in my opinion the unions have the government so firmly under wraps that they cannot cut wages in any meaningful way and insist that PS pay and pensions should be on a forever upward curve with Annual increments costing 1/4 of a billion year on year for the last 5 years...Even after 3 so called pay cuts we are paying nearly the same as we were for ps pay and pensions as we were back in 2008 and thats with 30k less staff.

All the while I have had 5 years of pay cuts (20% in my job) and a shed load more when the increases in tax both direct and indirect are taken into account, granted all tax payers have suffered this at what point do we say enough is enough?

As for your the reckless borrowing caused this problem statement is a myth..It is 1/3 of what we owe...68billion the other 132Biillion is from over borrowing over the last decade to pay scandalous rates of public sector pay and pensions and social welfare...but dont let simple facts get in your way of your left socialist agenda

maguic24

sarumite wrote: »

Have you lived and worked in Sweden? Sweden is far from the socialist paradise people on here portray it to be.

No, but it would have to be better than here where you get absolutely nothing for your taxes!!!! They have a really good health system whereas if you go to a public hospital here you are more likely to come out worse then you went in.....

fliball123

maguic24 wrote: »

No, but it would have to be better than here where you get absolutely nothing for your taxes!!!! They have a really good health system whereas if you go to a public hospital here you are more likely to come out worse then you went in.....

Yet another abnormality over here..those on the dole or those deemed not wealthy enough get free medical care via the medical card..yet people who are paying a shed load of taxes to cover the costs of our health care have to pay again if they need medical assistance...The country is so backward..People paying twice for something and people getting things for free

Idbatterim

Can you not ask your employer to cut your weekly pay by ten euro?

ardmacha

and are also the highest paid of all of the countries that are currently in a bailout...Why is that?

That would be because everyone is Ireland is paid more than in Spain, Portugal or Greece, as they are less prosperous countries.

All the while I have had 5 years of pay cuts (20% in my job) and a shed load more when the increases in tax both direct and indirect are taken into account, granted all tax payers have suffered this at what point do we say enough is enough?

So those persons in the PS who have had 20% pay cuts and a shed load more when the increases in tax both direct and indirect, are they also entitled to say "enough is enough".

chopper6

And here we go........

Sand wrote: »

Irish public services are shockingly poor and ineffective for the vast amounts of money spent on them. The vast majority of taxpayers receive very little back for the taxes they pay - Gardai who are essentially powerless in the face of persistent, low level criminality, a judiciary which rings in their judgements from another planet, a health service that's toxic, and a civil service that one can only assume isn't *trying* to be terrible. The best an Irish taxpayer can hope for is never to be in a position where they are relying on the public sector to help them.

Without fail....almost every thread on this forum reverts to this.

fliball123

ardmacha wrote: »

That would be because everyone is Ireland is paid more than in Spain, Portugal or Greece, as they are less prosperous countries.



So those persons in the PS who have had 20% pay cuts and a shed load more when the increases in tax both direct and indirect, are they also entitled to say "enough is enough".

Where has their been 20% pay cuts in the PS?? also you have to factor in the 5/6 years of annual increments that brings the amount that we pay back to what we were paying back in 2008.

Less prosperous...What you are trying to suggest is that if you kill someone with 20 bullets as apposed to 1 bullet the person with 20 bullets in them is more dead?.. As in the PIIGS countries are all broke and borrowing and all massively in debt..Yet we continue paying the most for social walfare and for PS pay and pensions? We cannot afford the current levels.

Regardless of how prosperous a country is if they are borrowing 1 billion a month and over 200billion in debt they cannot be very prosperous now can they?

You can spin this anyway you like Ard Macha the Croke park and haddington road are complete nonsense and as of today the troika are putting pressure on the gov to get more savings out of haddington (already unions talking about their dismay at this) The gov should of just cut money from pay, suspended increments and stopped with the tinkering around the edges which if you look at the current health overspend which has happened year on year since 2008 is not making the savings that are needed..

Still would love to see where the 20% pay cut in PS pay has come from?

chopper6

fliball123 wrote: »

Also the P.S are paid more here than their private sector counterparts and are also the highest paid of all of the countries that are currently in a bailout...Why is that?

Why does that concern you?

fliball123 wrote: »

You will also forgive me if in my opinion the unions have the government so firmly under wraps that they cannot cut wages in any meaningful way

So a 20% cut is in no way meaningful? What about the pension Levy?

fliball123 wrote: »

All the while I have had 5 years of pay cuts (20% in my job) and a shed load more when the increases in tax both direct and indirect are taken into account, granted all tax payers have suffered this at what point do we say enough is enough?

I've had MORE pay cuts than you yet i'm not whinging about what you're being paid..Nor am i calling for yout top have your pay cut or tax increased...you're so caught up in your own situation you're lashing out blindly looking for others to blame/cut pay from/sack.

fliball123 wrote: »

As for your the reckless borrowing caused this problem statement is a myth..It is 1/3 of what we owe...68billion the other 132Biillion is from over borrowing over the last decade to pay scandalous rates of public sector pay and pensions and social welfare...but dont let simple facts get in your way of your left socialist agenda

So the 1/3rd that was gambled recklessley on an overheated property bubble doesnt count at all?

What about the banks writing off billions in loans? Who's paying the price ultimately for that?

And as far as your agenda is concerned 68 billion basically doesnt count as it's not relevant to your anti PS bias?

I wish you could listen to yourself..

fliball123

chopper6 wrote: »

And here we go........



Without fail....almost every thread on this forum reverts to this.

Thats because after 5/6 years the government choose to cut services and have pretty much the same pay and pensions bill as they had back in 2008 . Just look at health for a road map of the problems...supposed savings in areas some of which cannot be tangibly gauged as to how much they will save, have just not cut the mustard and health has an overspend problem every year. Things such as wage can be gauged and that is where the cutting should of happened with increments suspended until we are no longer borrowing.

ardmacha

Where has their been 20% pay cuts in the PS??

There has been a much higher proportion of 20% cuts in the PS than in the private sector and most of these got no increment whatsoever.

We cannot afford the current levels.

Fine, so. Privatise hospitals, buses, universities and the like and let people pay for them themselves. They'll still have to pay people to run these services.

chopper6

ardmacha wrote: »

Fine, so. Privatise hospitals, buses, universities and the like and let people pay for them themselves. They'll still have to pay people to run these services.

Dont forget to privatise the police and emergency services too....if ya dont pay you dont get help..