The Lanark ewe and the hill

Conmaicne Mara

I sometimes hear lads here giving out they wouldn't have a Lanark ewe, no good in the hill, get saggy etc. Is this just specific to my area or is the same thinking evident in other hill areas?

(I happen to like them, though I only have one or two!).

jomoloney

Don't know about the Lanark ewe

but this I think the fourth sheep thread started to day , 2 have already gone down a page

would it not be better practise if all sheep related threads were posted in the sheep forum sticky ?

or am I wrong here again ?

Conmaicne Mara

I don't think so, that sticky is just on the topic of a sheep forum, it is not a forum nor sub forum itself.

eire23

dont know much about them tbh, all mayo blackface here. have heard of people putting a lanark ram with the mayo ewes to give the lambs a better frame and more of a shoulder, dont know how sucessfull this is though

tabby aspreme

jomoloney wrote: »

Don't know about the Lanark ewe

but this I think the fourth sheep thread started to day , 2 have already gone down a page

would it not be better practise if all sheep related threads were posted in the sheep forum sticky ?

or am I wrong here again ?

A good Sheppard will look for all the sheep threads a bring the weakest one back to the front page again:D

ulleJ1

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

I sometimes hear lads here giving out they wouldn't have a Lanark ewe, no good in the hill, get saggy etc. Is this just specific to my area or is the same thinking evident in other hill areas?

(I happen to like them, though I only have one or two!).

The right Lanark ewe is a fantastic sheep...
Almost every breed of sheep can be saggy if you have a bad example of that breed...
A well shaped Lanark is hard got and if you get one they cost an arm and a leg...
Ive two Lanark rams - one bought at harkins sale for 850 and the other at Ketchs sale for 500.... must say they are producing great lambs off a good mayo ewe.... the ewe has to be right though but the Lanark will bring muscle, good bone and tight wool into your flock.... the only down side to them is the cost I think and they can be a short in the leg

MayoAreMagic

I have seen a few of them and the nice ones are very eye-catching. They don't seem to last as long on the hills in mayo though, probably just not enough proof in it for them. In grass they fatten well, but I have also seen good mayo ewes rare lambs just as well in the same environment, so there you go. The difference is there has probably been more time and effort put into the Lanark as a breed.

What I cant understand though, is why they are bred so short in the leg. Is there a reason for this or is it just something that happened over time? I cant see any real advantage to taking the height out of a breed, maybe I am missing something...

ulleJ1

Id say the lanark were originally too tall, light and long wooled so they tried to improve there characteristics by only keeping the rams that were stocky and better wooled for breeding.... naturally when your looking for the squarer better wooled sheep there is a strong chance you will end up with sheep that are short in the leg.... theres no doubt the smaller sheep will survive longer in harsh conditions than the big long sheep, so I guess lanarks were breed smaller to inprove there survival rates and make them easier fed and therefore less expense needed to winter them.... theres no doubt alot of them heve gone too small, a problem in alot of breeds really

MayoAreMagic

I don't know ulleJ1. A ewe doesn't have to be as long as a train to have a decent leg. You can have long ones with short legs so why not short ones with longer legs? They have managed to combine so many other good traits in the breed that you would think something as obvious as a good, or even average leg would be meat and drink for them. Maybe there is some logic behind it that we don't know about.

ulleJ1

If you take a look at any of the recent u tube clips of the popular Lanark ram sales in Scotland they are all big powerful sheep but the prices are well out of our range, the breeders are obviously breeding size into this breed in the last few years as I see the top prices are going to the bigger rams, their coats are exceptional recently with bodies that could compete with top quality texels, one thing I would say about the lanarks - the have a tendency to be very highly strung, very flighty animal which makes them more awkward to handle compared to the average sheep, all in all there a great breed, of course there are some bad examples too but there are a lot of substandard farmers out there who are content with substandard stock! These farmers have the ability to turn good stock into bad stock...I see more mayo horned sheep with short legs than long legs, the real problem here is they have no decent body either, the body is the important part, after all how much is the leg worth in the factory, long or short leg its still worthless.

MayoAreMagic

ulleJ1, so it is ok to praise their coats, but when someone references their short legs we get the old one liner about it all looking the same on the plate...

Im not denying their good points or trying to knock them, Im just wondering why, when clearly so much effort has gone into their appearance, that they have such a short leg, and am asking if there is some reason for this.

As for the bodies on mayo ewes, as you say, there are good farmers and bad ones. I have seen mayo ewes with bodies every bit as good as the lanarks I have encountered, and with better kill outs on the lambs. In truth the breeds are quite similar, but our indigenous breeds just haven't had the same level of research etc, to increase their productivity and quality, but that does not meant the quality doesn't exist within the breed itself... It is the same with the Galway ewe, just no research and development gone in.

ulleJ1

Fair enough in general they are a bit short in the leg in comparison to a lot of other breeds , I don't know for sure but Id doubt very much that they were intentionally bred this way for a reason. Id say with the improvements, this way one of the down sides to the improvements of breeding them with better bodies and wool. Ive bought quite a few mayo sheep about ballinrobe mart and ive yet to see a good mayo ram as square as a good Lanark ram. A good mayo horned ram is hard got but even the best ones are quite narrow at the front shoulder in comparison to the good Lanark. Stephen Grealish does have great mayo hogget rams each year, he got about a thousand for a few this year

MayoAreMagic

The thing with the mayo ewe, and in fairness it was probably the same with the Lanarks and basically all sheep before they put effort (and money) into developing it, is there isn't really a standard. Some people want them long and square for breeding crosses, others short and round for living out on the hills etc etc. But the thing is you have to ask yourself what are they being used for. We see the Lanark now getting really broad, but aren't they supposed to be hill sheep? Aren't hill sheep supposed to be for easy lambing? So why are they developing big broad shoulders on them? It is basically exactly like the suffolks and texels were developed, but they are lowland breeds.
Compare that to the NZ sheep, they have learned the hard way and now look for wedge shaped sheep so they can lamb on their own. The direction it is moving in is all wrong, and those lads getting the 1300 are to the forefront of that.


Sorry about going off on a tangent there!

ulleJ1

Your right the Lanark are getting very square, they still seem to be easy lambers though, I had 80 Lanark lambs last year, not a problem with one of them lambing bar one coming backways, I noticed the majority of them are born very small but grow well if they are good breeding. I hadn't a lamb born until the second week of april and I got 74 euro a piece for the best 50 ram lambs as stores, its not mighty money but good for horned lambs all the same . They got no feed either although they were in good grass.
I know the hardiest horned sheep are small narrow and short but do you not think they are terrible to look at and financially you are wasting your time breeding them. Any farmer with a bit of pride wants to have decent stock, the farmers looking for bargains are constantly codding themselves as there complaining about their prices year in year out. I see a lot of men that wouldn't pay any more than 300 for any ram, sure a good ram is well worth the extra few hundred if you gat a few euros extra for your lambs.
To be honest personally I think farming is a waste of time if your not trying to improving your breed each year.

MayoAreMagic

That is a good price for mountain lambs ulleJ1. What kind of weights would they have been roughly?

As regards the hardiest horned sheep, they aren't all terrible to look at, although some are. But that comes back to the time, effort and money gone in to the Lanark strain over our indigenous type. There are some with skins just as tight as the Lanark, heads just as bare and eye-catching, the problem is people aren't picky enough, they are mixing in rams with big ugly heads and wool down to the ground etc, whereas with the Lanark these traits were conserved. The reality is there are different types within the breed, just like the Perth/Lanark divide, but these haven't been formally identified, and so we get a mix. I just think it is a shame that we are falling over ourselves to get Scottish sheep onto our farms, when we have our own indigenous breeds here that we could develop to be as good as or even better than the Scottish breeds.

As regards wasting time financially, well in truth Im not, because other sheep wont survive on the hills in my area. Guys have tried Lanarks and they haven't been able to keep them - they are now crossing indigenous rams with them in an attempt to make the more suitable. So basically it is that type or nothing.

Also, I fully agree that you should try to improve every year.

Ard_MC

ulleJ1 wrote: »

Your right the Lanark are getting very square, they still seem to be easy lambers though, I had 80 Lanark lambs last year, not a problem with one of them lambing bar one coming backways, I noticed the majority of them are born very small but grow well if they are good breeding. I hadn't a lamb born until the second week of april and I got 74 euro a piece for the best 50 ram lambs as stores, its not mighty money but good for horned lambs all the same . They got no feed either although they were in good grass.
I know the hardiest horned sheep are small narrow and short but do you not think they are terrible to look at and financially you are wasting your time breeding them. Any farmer with a bit of pride wants to have decent stock, the farmers looking for bargains are constantly codding themselves as there complaining about their prices year in year out. I see a lot of men that wouldn't pay any more than 300 for any ram, sure a good ram is well worth the extra few hundred if you gat a few euros extra for your lambs.
To be honest personally I think farming is a waste of time if your not trying to improving your breed each year.

Old thread i know, but just wondering did you stick with the lanark?

ulleJ1

Still have some Lanark ewes but changed the Lanark ram for a cheviot. .. very hard to get a good lanark ram with size 

MayoAreMagic

ulleJ1 wrote: »

Still have some Lanark ewes but changed the Lanark ram for a cheviot. .. very hard to get a good lanark ram with size

That is the point of them though. They are bred that way to prosper on the mountains...

ulleJ1

I agree with you but small sheep make small money at the mart. ..... I've seen big strong Lanark rams up the north so they do exist..... problem is they are rare and too expensive

MayoAreMagic

ulleJ1 wrote: »

I agree with you but small sheep make small money at the mart. ..... I've seen big strong Lanark rams up the north so they do exist..... problem is they are rare and too expensive

They do exist alright, but any guy running them should probably be running a cheviot flock, or in a lot of cases, has the land to be running texels, which is how they are winning shows and getting traction in the first place... But who is to say they are any good when they go into the environment they are actually supposed to be in?

Ard_MC

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They do exist alright, but any guy running them should probably be running a cheviot flock, or in a lot of cases, has the land to be running texels, which is how they are winning shows and getting traction in the first place... But who is to say they are any good when they go into the environment they are actually supposed to be in?

Where would be the best place to source a good mayo ram? Ballinrobe the only show in town or are there other sales worth going too? Will be in the market for 1 this yr and its my first time lookin for one so any local advise would be great?

MayoAreMagic

Ard_MC wrote: »

Where would be the best place to source a good mayo ram? Ballinrobe the only show in town or are there other sales worth going too? Will be in the market for 1 this yr and its my first time lookin for one so any local advise would be great?

Wouldnt buy anything in there personally. What applies for the bigger lanarks above applies also for the majority of rams at that sale. They are in the best of land. The amount of time I have heard of people coming from across the country, buying a couple of rams there and not able to keep condition on them is unbelievable. The reality of it is the majority of the stock in there are far removed from what the breed is supposed to offer because guys are chasing rosettes and big prices.

Re sourcing a good one it depends on what you are looking for really. Generally the more west you go, the worse the land, so the animals are getting less grass naturally, however there are a few outliers in that logic also.

You would stand a better chance at the more localised sales or shows. Id be suggesting taking in some of the shows in the Newport, Tiernaur, Achill areas and if you see something you like just ask a guy what they have for sale. One of the achill ones has a website with photos of their last 5-6 shows, so would be worth a look before travelling.

Ard_MC

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Wouldnt buy anything in there personally. What applies for the bigger lanarks above applies also for the majority of rams at that sale. They are in the best of land. The amount of time I have heard of people coming from across the country, buying a couple of rams there and not able to keep condition on them is unbelievable. The reality of it is the majority of the stock in there are far removed from what the breed is supposed to offer because guys are chasing rosettes and big prices.

Re sourcing a good one it depends on what you are looking for really. Generally the more west you go, the worse the land, so the animals are getting less grass naturally, however there are a few outliers in that logic also.

You would stand a better chance at the more localised sales or shows. Id be suggesting taking in some of the shows in the Newport, Tiernaur, Achill areas and if you see something you like just ask a guy what they have for sale. One of the achill ones has a website with photos of their last 5-6 shows, so would be worth a look before travelling.

To be honest i dont want a show stopper, just ordinary 1 with a good size, bone and a bit of fleshin ability as i finish some of my own. Usually cross my mayo ewes but want to breed my own.

MayoAreMagic

Ard_MC wrote: »

To be honest i dont want a show stopper, just ordinary 1 with a good size, bone and a bit of fleshin ability as i finish some of my own. Usually cross my mayo ewes but want to breed my own.

I hear ya, and I would be the same. That is why Id be directing you down that direction and away from Balinrobe

Cattlepen

"The amount of time I have heard of people coming from across the country, buying a couple of rams there and not able to keep condition on them is unbelievable. "

This is the problem with all rams at the moment. Too well fed and pampered. When they go away from the high protein meal and cabbage they melt

Paddy84

Ard_MC wrote: »

To be honest i dont want a show stopper, just ordinary 1 with a good size, bone and a bit of fleshin ability as i finish some of my own. Usually cross my mayo ewes but want to breed my own.

I'd have a few. Not fed or pampered great breeding stock. Be selling later in year.

Ard_MC

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I hear ya, and I would be the same. That is why Id be directing you down that direction and away from Balinrobe

Thanks for that, ill keep an eye out for those shows.

Ard_MC

Paddy84 wrote: »

I'd have a few. Not fed or pampered great breeding stock. Be selling later in year.

Thanks Paddy, sure when it comes time for them to be sold you can us know if they are for the mart or on Done Deal.

Hillman86

Ard_MC wrote: »

Thanks for that, ill keep an eye out for those shows.

Maam Cross mart, a lot of Connemara nd south West mayo farmers. You'll get good natural rams there that won't melt when you get them home. I

Louthmouth1

I have been to the ballinrobe mayo ram sale a few times and I won't be running back in a hurry after several expensive mistakes. Overweight friendly pets is how I would describe most of the rams on sale. That sale does not reflect fairly on the rest of that region.