Standard Deviation

Kurt Godel

shotgunmcos wrote: »

What is a proper outdoor swim session?!

I know a bit about comparison, and a quick fumble in a heated 25yard 2 lane pool with your drunken Congressman (who has so kindly let you use his heated taxpayer-funded diamond-encrusted endless pool), is lower down on the Early-Open-Water Scale; than a mickey-shrinking April Wicklow Harbour dip.

(There are both yardsticks and cm-sticks available for any pervert pedants who want to test the issue...)

Kurt Godel

Oryx wrote: »

90 seconds was a p!ss poor effort though. Try harder next time.

Well its a joy that you are back and posting on Boards.

90 seconds "piss poor" typed from the warm safety of your keyboard... I'd expect >90secs OW posted on you log tomorrow Kate, unless... dare I suggest it... could it be so?... shall I wear my trousers rolled?...you are getting soft in your dotage?;)

Oryx

a p!ss poor attempt at baiting too. Try harder next time.

Kurt Godel

Warm+Dry+Smug on Sunday: any important messages for Oryx tomorrow should be delivered via the IronManTattooParlour.

Kurt Godel

Sun 3 hour turbo

It was a windy and wet morning here, and seeing as my last adventure into cold and wet hardship only led to online abuse and ridicule, I opted for the softer warmer turbo version. Four episodes of "House of Cards", with lunch at the fantastic Sha-Roe Bistro in Clonegal between episodes 1 and 2,3,4. Nice relaxed spinning with a mild sweat, but it did all total over three hours, which should appease the endurance-obsessed cyber-bullies.

Oryx

Holding out the hand of peace here. The bully nametag chafes! Youre awesome I'm a decrepit, soft numpty. Can we move on now?

Kurt Godel

Weekly Summary|Session|Comment

Monday|2.8k swim|drills and splashing with the kids
Tuesday|6k run|5k at 4:32/k pace
Wednesday|9k easy run; 2,100m swim|Paddles, and 3*100 swims in 1:25, 1:24, 1:22
Thursday|60 min turbo; 1.5k swim and deck|Sufferfest "Fight Club" hard; tough swim set with deck work
Friday|50 mins turbo; 3,000m swim|4*(5*100) off 1:50, 1:45, 1:40, 1:35; couldn't make the 1:35's set
Saturday|10k run; 18m OW|Run felt laboured; didn't get the online accolades my brave swim deserved
Sunday|3 hour turbo|Easy pace, two sessions of 45mins and 2:15
Weekly km|Swim 9.4k Bike 135k Run 25k| A ticking over sort of week
2014 km|Swim 151 Bike 1,632k Run 323.53k

Kurt Godel

Oryx wrote: »

Can we move on now?

Its all good clean fun and banter, no bones broken.

Dory Dory

Oryx wrote: »

Holding out the hand of peace here. The bully nametag chafes! Youre awesome I'm a decrepit, soft numpty. Can we move on now?

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Sun 3 hour turbo

It was a windy and wet morning here, and seeing as my last adventure into cold and wet hardship only led to online abuse and ridicule, I opted for the softer warmer turbo version. Four episodes of "House of Cards", with lunch at the fantastic Sha-Roe Bistro in Clonegal between episodes 1 and 2,3,4. Nice relaxed spinning with a mild sweat, but it did all total over three hours, which should appease the endurance-obsessed cyber-bullies.

Feck that, Oryx! It was a bloody 90 second (at best!) dip into water with a wetsuit on (not to mention that child-trauma incident). Hell, the old folks down at the 40 foot go in 365 days a year without a stitch on!!

Kurt Godel

Dory Dory wrote: »

Feck that, Oryx! It was a bloody 90 second (at best!) dip into water with a wetsuit on (not to mention that child-trauma incident). Hell, the old folks down at the 40 foot go in 365 days a year without a stitch on!!

Is there water in your pool at the moment Dory? There's records waiting to be broken...;)

Dory Dory

Kurt Godel wrote: »

How is this even at issue? (thank you Oryx voice of reason!) Anyone who gets into Irish waters in April will know its off the HulkHogan-ometer compared with a session in the pool (pardon me Dory: compared with a session in a heated pool).

I

*F*uck*ing

WIN!!!

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Is there water in your pool at the moment Dory? There's records waiting to be broken...;)

Nope. Someone has already declared them self the winner. Too late.

:)

Kurt Godel

Mon 2,200m swim

1km easy @ 1:50 average
5*100 off 1:50 (in 1:40-1:43)
1 min rest
5*100 off 1:45 (in 1:35-1:42)
200m ez

I wasn't feeling the love tonight, just couldn't get a smooth stroke, nor catch my breath correctly. The 100's felt a good deal harder effort-wise than they should have.

Watched the kids getting an hours coaching afterwards; thats a lesson in itself. Lots to learn while observing them- what works, what doesn't, stroke limiters, etc. Chatting with the coach about improvement, he reckons adults should be doing 10 hours a week to see significant improvements. Once they are satisfied with the level they are at, they can dial it back to 4 hours to maintain the standard. Food for thought.

griffin100

10hrs per week...........30,000m a week...............over 1.5 million metres per year!!! Food for thought alright.

Kurt Godel

griffin100 wrote: »

10hrs per week...........30,000m a week...............over 1.5 million metres per year!!! Food for thought alright.

I think what he meant was a period of 10 hour weeks (I don't know how long a period) would improve you to a level that could then be maintained. Like, if I devoted 4 weeks with 10 hours each in the pool, I might be swimming at 1:25 pace, and could then drop back to maintain that. He wasn't being analytical by the way, more a throwaway remark, but it got me thinking. A runner or cyclist would think nothing of training for 10 hours weekly; I doubt too many Triheads devote that to the pool (especially at the hobby level).

It'd be nice to be cruising at 1:20 pace though. I'll keep looking for that magic pill

pgibbo

I'd say most people barely make the 4 hours a week nevermind 10. I reckon most people only swim 3 hours per week.

Getting to and from the pool can be a limiter also as it can eat in to a chunk of time for some people.

griffin100

Kurt Godel wrote: »

It'd be nice to be cruising at 1:20 pace though. I'll keep looking for that magic pill

What's your definition of cruising pace re. effort / distance?

I'd say most people barely make the 4 hours a week nevermind 10. I reckon most people only swim 3 hours per week.

Getting to and from the pool can be a limiter also as it can eat in to a chunk of time for some people.

I was surprised at how much time swimming was taking up last year when my sessions started to lengthen. A 4,000m session might take me 80-90 minutes and then when you add travel time to and from the pool you're getting close to 2hrs.

mossym

pgibbo wrote: »

I'd say most people barely make the 4 hours a week nevermind 10. I reckon most people only swim 3 hours per week.

Getting to and from the pool can be a limiter also as it can eat in to a chunk of time for some people.

plus the question of whether those extra 7 hours would reap bigger rewards if applied to another discipline. obviously not a factor if you're doing some swin only events

Kurt Godel

pgibbo wrote: »

I'd say most people barely make the 4 hours a week nevermind 10. I reckon most people only swim 3 hours per week.

Getting to and from the pool can be a limiter also as it can eat in to a chunk of time for some people.

Travel time is certainly a factor alright. Myself, its a 50k road trip to the pool and back. I'm lucky that I do one session before kids training on Monday, and one session after their training on Wednesday, so I'm not too much of an absent Dad.

griffin100 wrote: »

What's your definition of cruising pace re. effort / distance?

Ah realistically 1:20 is fantasy land. If I could go 1:30/100m for two or three km I'd be very happy.

mossym wrote: »

plus the question of whether those extra 7 hours would reap bigger rewards if applied to another discipline. obviously not a factor if you're doing some swin only events

Yes, thats true, and even more so on the less-balanced IM and HIM ratios. I guess I'm just thinking aloud with a view to moving to swim-only focus.

Kurt Godel

Tue 3,200m pool

1,000m straight with flip turns (1:50 pace)
1 minute rest
1,000m straight with flip turns (1:48)
1 min rest
400m @ 1:45
1 min rest
300m @ 1:41
1 min rest
200m @ 1:38
1 min rest
100m @ 1:32

The flip turns all went well, except I was slower pace than when I pushed off. More practice needed, I guess. The rest still felt a little laboured, although the 4,3,2,1 descending is where I expected it to be pace-wise.

BTH

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Thurs ....1,500m swim .....

......
8*50m (25 fly, 25 choice, 15sec rest)
.......

Fly. :mad:
I've been doing some fly in my warmup of late. I've been led to believe it'll help me finish my stroke. Only when I have a lane to myself though, as I'm liable to hurt myself and those around me. Similar to this, I can only do 25m and need an easy 25m after. Even at that I need 25-30 sec rest between 50s and I'm only doing 6 reps. First one is great, arms well clear of the water, by number 6 I'm breathing in water. Don't think I'm getting a great deal from my legs. Will it get easier?? Ever?? It's alright for someone like you who actually has a pair of shoulders. :mad:

Interested, you can stop laughing at the idea of me doing fly now.

Kurt Godel

Good man; I see you're racking up serious SBR swim meters. Whats the standard like with you now? Are you going to update your log so I can steal your sets?

We do fly during warm-up too; I'd imagine there's little use in novices like us doing it any later, on tired arms. I like to think cycle of intensity and recovery will be useful during Tri starts, when the world and his cousin goes out like Michael Phelps for the first 200m.

BTH

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Good man; I see you're racking up serious SBR swim meters. Whats the standard like with you now? Are you going to update your log so I can steal your sets?

We do fly during warm-up too; I'd imagine there's little use in novices like us doing it any later, on tired arms. I like to think cycle of intensity and recovery will be useful during Tri starts, when the world and his cousin goes out like Michael Phelps for the first 200m.

I'd probably drown if I tried it later in the set. As early as possible.

Not going to be updating any logs, but getting a little done. Need to try a little running though. Main set yesterday of 5*300 pull band and paddles off 5:30 so loads of rest. Main set today of 10*100 off 1:45, 8*200 off 3:30, hitting 1:30, and 3:05 or better. So I'm not where I used to be but I'm not a million miles off it either. Did nothing Jan or Feb or half of March for that matter so no surprise really.

Dory Dory

BTH wrote: »

Fly. :mad:
I've been doing some fly in my warmup of late. I've been led to believe it'll help me finish my stroke. Only when I have a lane to myself though, as I'm liable to hurt myself and those around me. Similar to this, I can only do 25m and need an easy 25m after. Even at that I need 25-30 sec rest between 50s and I'm only doing 6 reps. First one is great, arms well clear of the water, by number 6 I'm breathing in water. Don't think I'm getting a great deal from my legs. Will it get easier?? Ever?? It's alright for someone like you who actually has a pair of shoulders. :mad:

Interested, you can stop laughing at the idea of me doing fly now.

I don't know how interested would feel about this, but you can always do a one-armed butterfly - with your left arm out in front of you, stroke with the right arm.....obviously your kick should be butterfly, and you can even breathe to the side that is doing the stroke. When you get to the end of the pool, switch sides for your return.

interested

BTH wrote: »

Fly. ...as I'm liable to hurt myself ...

Interested, you can stop laughing at the idea of me doing fly now.

2 points
a) Both fly and breastroke as part of a warm up both increase risk of you .. as you say .. hurting yourself (shoulders and knees respectively take a little time to warm up)
b) It could be some time before I get all of my lunch off the keyboard from the laugh I just let out whilst eating.

p.s single arm is a good suggestion and may also ensure the lifeguards don't mistake you for someone having a fit that needs rescuing.

Dory Dory

^^^ Agree with fly/breastroke being "unusual" in a warm up. I would not recommend it for those reasons stated by interested. (@ interested, so relieved you did not suggest this as I could not tell from the way BTH wrote it!)

Kurt Godel

Thanks for the replies from both of you, makes sense. I should point out FWIW that we would have done a "proper" warm-up before doing fly early in our session, and any time I've done it, the session has been deck work/swimming mix. Not sure if that changes anything or not, but I'll certainly be cautious doing fly for shoulder injuries.

Kurt Godel

Wed 10.15k easy run @ 5:20/km pace

Up around the Hillbrook loop for a real plod. Great views along the high road, would nearly make me consider enjoying running again. Nearly.

BTH

interested wrote: »

2 points
a) Both fly and breastroke as part of a warm up both increase risk of you .. as you say .. hurting yourself (shoulders and knees respectively take a little time to warm up)
b) It could be some time before I get all of my lunch off the keyboard from the laugh I just let out whilst eating.

p.s single arm is a good suggestion and may also ensure the lifeguards don't mistake you for someone having a fit that needs rescuing.

Always have at least 400m done first, usually another 400 kick as well. In any case I don't have any shoulders and as for my knees, they're not doing much when I'm attempting fly.

Cheers for the reminder though. I'll make sure to remember to always warm up properly first. Sometimes the temptation to take advantage of an empty lane is there too early in the WU.

Kurt Godel

Wed pm 2,000m swim

10*50 (25kick, 25 free, 15sec rest)
6*50 PB
5*100 off 4 mins, 100% effort
700m PB

The main part of this was 5*100m off 4mins, giving it 100% for each one. It was one of the hardest swims I've ever done, and that was the consensus in the changing room afterwards too. Times were 1:17, 1:21, 1:20, 1:22, 1:25. The first one I busted a gut and got a reward- first time ever under 1:20. The rest were hell, really tough, cramping during the last two as well. I felt like puking during the second one, and that set the tone. One thing I noticed was control and technique- the pre-set kicks and pulls enabled decent technique all round.

Everyone else seemed to be hitting times much better than they might have expected too, so there is a fair amount of improvement within our couple of lanes. Pretty happy myself with hitting 1:17, my previous PB was 1:22 I think. I wonder if I can get a 100m under 1:10? Thats certainly a goal.

shotgunmcos

Well done on the pb, nice swimming. Mad how much 100m can hurt!

And to add feul to the fire in the belly, Tunney once declared that no adult learner could break 1:10