Standard Deviation

Dory Dory · 03-09-2014 7:56pm

Of course you'd pick the video with the hot chick and dirty talk about thrust, push and drive.

Kurt Godel · 03-09-2014 8:05pm

Dory Dory wrote: »

Of course you'd pick the video with the hot chick and dirty talk about thrust, push and drive.

Hey, I'm all about the kettlebells

mossym · 03-09-2014 8:38pm

get your cardio in too Kurt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0hu6_WOQqI

Dory Dory · 03-09-2014 11:28pm

mossym wrote: »

get your cardio in too Kurt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0hu6_WOQqI

"Dees vorkout vas so hart...<pant, pant>....i vahned to stop...<pant, pant>...it vas only 8 minutes long vut it vas soooo hart."

Get a load of those baggy sweat pants. Poor girl, her legs must be riddled with cellulite.

Kurt Godel · 04-09-2014 1:29pm

Thurs 9.6k run 49:38

15 mins easy
5*(30 sec build/30 slow)
10*(min hard/min slow)
9:38 easy

It was very warm in the forest, we are having a late heatwave (just after I've drained the pool). The "hard" minutes felt tough, but not as tough as the hard minutes from the turbo on Tuesday. Suffering while running; thats a skill I'll have to learn all over again.

pgibbo · 04-09-2014 2:35pm

What's up next for you Kurt? I've fallen way behind on logs,etc

Kurt Godel · 04-09-2014 2:42pm

pgibbo wrote: »

What's up next for you Kurt? I've fallen way behind on logs,etc

Sept 13th- Liffey Swim
Sept 20th- Clogherhead Sprint. It'll be my 5th NS, and I'll need a decent showing if I want to nab an AG spot for the Euros next year... my running will let me down again though. I want to get a Euro spot to have a goal race to work towards, where you know the swim won't be cancelled (or even better, it might be skins;)).

Thats the season done after the 20th. Training over the winter should be more focussed as I've now got a coach sending me plans. The goal is to get my biking and my running up the standard of my swimming.

griffin100 · 04-09-2014 2:49pm

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Clogherhead Sprint. It'll be my 5th NS, and I'll need a decent showing if I want to nab an AG spot for the Euros next year

I wouldn't worry too much, I placed 22nd in my age group out of 42 at Tri The Lough last year which was the qualifying race for the Euros and got 'selected' :pac: It's more about who can afford to travel than results....

catweazle · 04-09-2014 5:19pm

I was thinking that - as long as you are willing to pony up TI will be more than happy to select you (take your money). Christ not only the rip off entry prices but Geneva as well...........start saving!

Kurt Godel · 04-09-2014 6:03pm

Ah lads, you can't put a price at representing your country at international level. When Ireland calls...

We will be caravaning that side of France anyway, should cut down on the costs.

Dory Dory · 04-09-2014 8:04pm

When you say "caravanning" is that sort of like what gypsies do??

Kurt Godel · 04-09-2014 10:07pm

Thurs PM 2,600m Masters swim

400m easy
10*50 (25 kick, 25 drill, 10 secs)
10*75 PB (50 steady, 25 hard, 15 secs)
10*50 (breathe on 3 first 25, breathe on 5 second, 10 secs)
10*25 (15 sprint, 10 easy, 15 secs)
200m swim down

I got to watch the fish again for two hours beforehand, its just amazing to see. They are so high on the water. Afterwards there was just me and JK for the session above, so I got to watch his catch. So much to learn. The PB I dislike, although swimming alongside him forced me to make the most of my catch. The sprints went well, I love sprinting. Speed generally means you are high on the water, so form is what it should be.

Dory Dory · 05-09-2014 1:39am

It is a rush to be skimming the surface of the water like a speed boat!!!

Kurt Godel · 05-09-2014 8:15am

Dory Dory wrote: »

It is a rush to be skimming the surface of the water like a speed boat!!!

There's no better feeling, you feel like a missile! Watching those kids at work is an education. It's interesting to note the difference in their techniques; "Mr 16 strokes" (actually down to 14 at times) enters thumbs first, has a huge reach, and floats like a log. "Mr. SeaSwimmer" does not kick at all, and has a much more undulating stroke with entry fingertips first, powering through the water. "Miss Speedboat" has a powerful kick so her ankle exits the water.

General notes from them all:
1. They tumble turn a lot closer to the wall than I do, and they all come up for air sooner than I do.
2. They all breath on two after turning (for at least the first two breaths).
3. They all breathe like Popeye.
4. Except for maybe Mr. SeaSwimmer, you could balance a cup on their head as they swim.

zico10 · 05-09-2014 12:41pm

Kurt Godel wrote: »

There's no better feeling, you feel like a missile! Watching those kids at work is an education. It's interesting to note the difference in their techniques; "Mr 16 strokes" (actually down to 14 at times) enters thumbs first, has a huge reach, and floats like a log. "Mr. SeaSwimmer" does not kick at all, and has a much more undulating stroke with entry fingertips first, powering through the water. "Miss Speedboat" has a powerful kick so her ankle exits the water.

General notes from them all:
1. They tumble turn a lot closer to the wall than I do, and they all come up for air sooner than I do.
2. They all breath on two after turning (for at least the first two breaths).
3. They all breathe like Popeye.
4. Except for maybe Mr. SeaSwimmer, you could balance a cup on their head as they swim.

These are obviously great swimmers you are talking about, but Interested is trying to drill into me fingertip entry. Do you think "Mr 16 strokes" swims well in spite of his thumb first entry or because of it? Or would it matter? Not educated enough about the intricacies of swimming to know whether how you describe the technique of the others is text book or not. But do you think the improvements you have made in the water have come about because you managed to iron out deficiencies in your stroke or have you just got better at doing things badly?

interested · 05-09-2014 12:49pm

zico10 wrote: »

These are obviously great swimmers you are talking about, but Interested is trying to drill into me fingertip entry. Do you think "Mr 16 strokes" swims well in spite of his thumb first entry or because of it? Or would it matter? Not educated enough about the intricacies of swimming to know whether how you describe the technique of the others is text book or not. But do you think the improvements you have made in the water have come about because you managed to iron out deficiencies in your stroke or have you just got better at doing things badly?

Joining late ... just my 2c

alot of the really important stuff happens under the water - which is difficult to see
the finger tip entry I encourage with index finger entering first is designed to ensure the palm of the hand is always facing the wall you're swimming away from. The initial 'catch' phase of freestyle is important, some people (not all) who enter thumb first sweep out first and then down - it might suit them and its possibly a throw back to when they learned to swim (teaching / coaching techniques do change ... alot of coaches dont though ).

Ideally its the index finger first, the thumb (imho) less ideal .. but as long as its not the elbow or forearm hitting the water first and pushing water in the wrong direction .... :cool:

Kurt Godel · 05-09-2014 1:27pm

zico10 wrote: »

These are obviously great swimmers you are talking about, but Interested is trying to drill into me fingertip entry. Do you think "Mr 16 strokes" swims well in spite of his thumb first entry or because of it? Or would it matter? Not educated enough about the intricacies of swimming to know whether how you describe the technique of the others is text book or not. But do you think the improvements you have made in the water have come about because you managed to iron out deficiencies in your stroke or have you just got better at doing things badly?

Zico, I'll give you my opinion on this, but as ever I defer to the two fish on this forum.

Some of these kids swim at the highest (Irish) level, so what works for them has been working for them since they were small kids, and may not be applicible to adults (and perhaps even less so to adult triathletes). Mr 16 strokes is extremely flexible, and appears almost double jointed at the shoulders (he may well be; a lot of the best swimmers are). Much as I admire the grace with which he cuts through water, I'd never try the thumb first entry myself- it would lead to shoulder injury quite soon, I'm just not that flexible. "Thumb first" used to be the way swimming was taught, but is considered incorrect in general now for injury risk- see this Swim Smooth page for more.

As regards getting faster, personally the things that worked best have been:
1. Volume, until that plateaued, and then;
2. Coaching, especially the first 10 minutes when low-hanging fruit in my stroke was plucked, and then;
3. Technique, including lots of drills and reading and useful swim toys, and then;
4. Masters sessions- trying to stay up with proper swimmers really forces you to up your game. It also affords you the chance to observe what is happening to a catch and pull underwater, which as interested says above is where all the action is.

I hope to get one-on-one coaching soon, and get the stroke looked at underwater. The thing that comes across from watching the kids, with all their different techniques, is just how high they are in the water. Speed keeps you up which keeps you hydro which keeps you efficient. What I want to do is be able to stay higher for longer, and I think technique in the catch and pull phase needs to be worked in here (my entry is fingertips first and recovery high elbow, so I'm happy enough with them).

But in general, no coach will recommend thumb-first entry (although it works well for Mr 16 strokes), just as no coach would recommend zero kicking (which works for Mr SeaSwimmer). They are at a higher level than we will ever be at, and are the exceptions to the rule.

*Edit* I just wanted to say that as far as I have made out "Speed keeps you up which keeps you hydro which keeps you efficient" works just as well backwards too.

Kurt Godel · 05-09-2014 1:36pm

Fri Bric: 2:30 turbo, 20 min run

45 min easy,
3*(15min just above sprint effort, 15min easy)
15 min easy
10 min steady run
10 min easy run

The sprint efforts on the turbo went ok. I went straight into the run, and tried to keep a decent pace effort wise for the first 10 minutes. It felt hard enough, but certainly the legs felt stronger than they usually feel coming out of T2 recently.

Kurt Godel · 06-09-2014 5:21pm

Sat running, 30k total

1 hour easy 5:20/km average
20 min 4:40 av
6 min easy
*Break for 90 mins*
10k 5:35 av
3.4k jog 5:55 av

I had an exam scheduled in Dublin, so drove and parked in Ballinteer and ran to de Nortside. The easy hour run in was pleasant enough, and I picked up the pace for 20 mins around St. Annes park. A quick stop for isotonic drink, jog to the exam, do the exam after a quick baby wipe shower, run back for 10k easy, walk a bit up a hill, then jog back to the car.

Kurt Godel · 07-09-2014 12:14pm

Sun 2,700m swim

100sw,100p,100k
6x50 on 60 as des 1-3, fast 4-6 (41/41/42)
3x300p steady on 6 (in 5:20)
6x100sw mod on 2
6x50 alt fast/easy on 60 (41/50/42/50/41/50)
100k,100p,100sw

Legs were a little tired after yesterdays run, but otherwise everything was ok. The fast 50's were slower than a few days back, probably owing to less kick. I'm starting to make better use of the PB, seem to be better able to use it at fastish pace. That takes a lot of extra effort in my catch and pull, but hopefully that will transfer into greater overall swim speed.

Kurt Godel · 07-09-2014 12:30pm

Kurt Godel · 08-09-2014 11:51am

Mon 2,500 swim
200sw, 4x50fists, 200p
5x300 alt sw/p with 15s
sw steady /p easy
4x50 as 15m fast, 35s easy on 60
200 easy

I got a better feel for the water as this set progressed. The fist drill is useful to get a feel for catch, and that continued into the longer 300's. By the end of the set, I was floating high on the water. The key to this was longer strokes, and a longer, stronger exit.

PM 30 mins easy run
I got a new battery for my HRM, so I'll have some figures to work with as guidance to effort. This was easy, and was 145bpm av.
Very bucolic evening out there, with the warm air and red full moon, a gentleman's thoughts would turn to romance.

Dory Dory · 08-09-2014 10:15pm

Lucky wife!

Kurt Godel · 08-09-2014 10:50pm

Dory Dory wrote: »

Lucky wife!

Nope- the jar of testosterone replacement in my kit bag is empty... too much racing this summer...

griffin100 · 08-09-2014 11:03pm

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Nope- the jar of testosterone replacement in my kit bag is empty... too much racing this summer...

That's a sign of overtraining so I'm told. Of course I've never suffered from it

interested · 09-09-2014 9:06am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermoon

3rd time in last 12 weeks ...

Kurt Godel · 09-09-2014 12:57pm

interested wrote: »

3rd time in last 12 weeks ...

That's what she said...

Kurt Godel · 09-09-2014 1:03pm

Tue 47 min turbo (HR 170 max)

10 easy
4x(1HC, 30sec easy)
4x(30sec build, 30sec easy)
5-4-3-2-1 with half recovery. start with sprint intensity , finish with the 1 minute fast
5 easy

Easy HR is about 105. Max is 170. Max corresponds with flat out for a minute- about as hard as I go on a turbo.

Kurt Godel · 09-09-2014 9:41pm

Tue PM 2,400m swim

200sw,200p
6x50 as 25drill, 25 sw
fist, fist, single arm, single arm, catch up, front scull
4x50 on 70 des 1-4
10x100 alt sw/p on 2 hitting < 01:35
4x50 fast on 60
100k, 100p,100sw

The 10*100 went well, I caught water better than usual with the PB. In 1:30, 1:33, 1:29, 1:30, 1:27, 1:30, 1:26, 1:31, 1:29, 1:33.
Fast 50's were 41, 43, 42, 42.

Dory Dory · 09-09-2014 10:31pm

Good lord, with all this training you're doing you'll be lucky if she says "3rd time in last 12 weeks!" Might be time to invest in another jar.

Standard Deviation

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