Child removed from Roma gypsies-This time in DUBLIN *Mod Warning Post #1*

Jester252

What with all the child abduction cases lately? I hope the two poor kids found in Dublin and the kid in Greece can have some sort of normal life.

Merkin

Jester252 wrote: »

What with all the child abduction cases lately?

It's not that there's suddenly a spate of them lately, this is going on wholesale and it's just fortuitous that a number of cases have caught the attention of the media at once. Hopefully human trafficking will now get the attention and coverage that it deserves. Ireland has a poor record in this regard so if this makes people keep their eyes and ears opened then this can only be a good thing.

tayto lover

Can't figure out the purpose of the Roma having these children except for begging purposes.
Both children seem to have been looked after well enough too.

josip

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

The whole thing is so weird. Am just wondering what the Roma stand to gain from kidnapping these kids? That little girl in Greece was with them for a number of years it seems, so it doesn't look like they wanted to 'sell her off'? And not to sound bad but if they were gonna kidnap a kid and claim it's their own then why didn't they go for less conspicuous looking kids - someone with black hair or more sallow skin who would fit in better with their group?? I would not be surprised if it did transpire that someone gave their kid up to the Roma.

Roma who are trafficking children see the children as a commodity, like a landlord might see a house. They purchase them at the best price they can. If that child is "hot" and troublesome they will sell them on to a Roma trafficker in another country where the child is not being sought. When the child is small they will make as much income as possible from them via multiple Social Welfare claims and begging. When they get older they will then sell the child into prostitution before the child can cause problems. The traffickers have no emotional attachment to the children.

tayto lover

josip wrote: »

Roma who are trafficking children see the children as a commodity, like a landlord might see a house. They purchase them at the best price they can. If that child is "hot" and troublesome they will sell them on to a Roma trafficker in another country where the child is not being sought. When the child is small they will make as much income as possible from them via multiple Social Welfare claims and begging. When they get older they will then sell the child into prostitution before the child can cause problems. The traffickers have no emotional attachment to the children.

Any links to support that claim please?

Kenny Logins

ted1 wrote: »

I wonder could it be a case of the mother having an affair with a local ?

Possibly, but she'd still have to give birth to that child at some point...

Agueroooo

fúcking hell ...

that poor 12yr old girl found at the GPO yesterday and now this poor 7yr old in Tallaght.

What the hell are they doing at our airports, borders, ports and social services?

I know its hard to police but for crying out loud this family in Tallaght are living in a housing estate, not some locked down compound.

If this turns out as feared then there is going to have to be (and rightly so) a shít storm as to how this child can be missed at so many levels.

But hey lets put some social service road blocks up to catch a worker doing nixers- feck the containers, and cars containing trafficked kids.


Banana Republic Argghhhhhhhhhhhh !!!

/rant over.

elfy4eva

Just out of interest to what we do know in regards to this case.
Is it unusual the the Coombe hospital have no evidence of the birth.

Do hospitals usually keep a full record of all children born?

I Heart Internet

elfy4eva wrote: »

Do hospitals usually keep a full record of all children born?

Christ, I'd hope so!!!!

Merkin

tayto lover wrote: »

Any links to support that claim please?

I thought this was pretty much common sense?

wildlifeboy

I got banned last week for my opinions on Roma... I wont be saying anything derogatory about them today...and then these two stories pop up in the media. ...grand bunch of lads!

elfy4eva

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Christ, I'd hope so!!!!

Sorry if it seemed an idiotic question to ask, as I don't have children I don't know the procedures.

tayto lover

Merkin wrote: »

I thought this was pretty much common sense?

How is it?
If it's true then there must be loads of links surely.

josip

tayto lover wrote: »

Any links to support that claim please?

It's what I would have known from my background when growing up.
Here's a couple of links that support that.
They're not hard to find if you need to search more.

http://www.errc.org/cms/upload/file/breaking-the-silence-19-march-2011.pdf
Page 55

http://www1.american.edu/TED/czech-child-trade.htm

Shout Dust

Nodin wrote: »

.....there's nothing concrete proven yet....

No, but as the HSE and Gardai have said, its very unusual for them to remove a child from its family. Combined with the hospital records not matching up it looks very suspect

I Heart Internet

elfy4eva wrote: »

Sorry if it seemed an idiotic question to ask, as I don't have children I don't know the procedures.

Well, the hospital would keep their own medical record and (in some parts of the country at least) you can register a birth with the Dept of Social Welfare before you leave the hospital.

elfy4eva

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Well, the hospital would keep their own medical record and (in some parts of the country at least) you can register a birth with the Dept of Social Welfare before you leave the hospital.

Well that alone makes this very interesting as there's definitely something sour there. Interested to see how this will develop.

Karl Stein

I said to my Dad the other day:

Dad, I have a question. How come I don't look or speak like you or Ma?

He says:

停止问问题，然后回去工作。

Dotsie~tmp

tayto lover wrote: »

Can't figure out the purpose of the Roma having these children except for begging purposes.
Both children seem to have been looked after well enough too.

Think harder. There is another way to make money from enslaved girls as they get older (or maybe not older sadly). They'll be more saleable if looked after too.

nelly17

It really is getting truely depressing with the whole stranger danger thing in Athlone a couple of weeks ago and now this - the world really is a dangerous place. it makes me wonder was it always as dangerous or were we just ignorant to it?

josip

elfy4eva wrote: »

Well that alone makes this very interesting as there's definitely something sour there. Interested to see how this will develop.

One thing that would normally happen is that a Roma family with something to hide would move on, often to another country.

That may not be an option at the moment with such a pan-European media awareness, but within the Schengen area, the lack of border controls would facilitate such movement. Our free travel zone with the UK would facilitate some movement here.

If anyone is aware of a Roma family that ups sticks, and leaves wherever they are living over the coming days/weeks, it's not a bad idea to bring it to the attention of the Gardai.

Agueroooo

If anything then this may put the authorities eye onto the Roma community.

I am not looking to start a shít storm but they contribute nothing to Irish society - maybe the current young (Irish born) generation will, but the current immigrant generation do not.

nelly17

Agueroooo wrote: »

If anything then this may put the authorities eye onto the Roma community.

I am not looking to start a shít storm but they contribute nothing to Irish society - maybe the current young (Irish born) generation will, but the current immigrant generation do not.

But their shiney jackets are lovely

Galwayguy35

Pavee point are sticking their oar in now, was only a matter of time I suppose.

SEPT 23 1989

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Pavee point are sticking their oar in now, was only a matter of time I suppose.

Knowing them they are probably blaming the settled community for this

AnonoBoy

nelly17 wrote: »

It makes me wonder was it always as dangerous or were we just ignorant to it?

Sadly it's still the case that more children are hurt or abused by their own family than by strangers.

josip

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Pavee point are sticking their oar in now, was only a matter of time I suppose.

Why would Pavee point be involved? Travellers and Roma are as different as Irish and Greeks.

spank_inferno

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Pavee point are sticking their oar in now, was only a matter of time I suppose.

they have to justify our tax money paying for their existance

I wonder is Pavee Point the only lobby group not paid for by those the lobbying is done for?

Galwayguy35

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Knowing them they are probably blaming the settled community for this

Yep, picking on "vunerable people".

Galwayguy35

josip wrote: »

Why would Pavee point be involved? Travellers and Roma are as different as Irish and Greeks.

Well they contacted The Last Word on Today FM to offer their words of wisdom about an hour ago when the topic was being discussed.

Grand Moff Tarkin

Agueroooo wrote: »

If anything then this may put the authorities eye onto the Roma community.

I am not looking to start a shít storm but they contribute nothing to Irish society - maybe the current young (Irish born) generation will, but the current immigrant generation do not.

The lot of them should be sent back to where they come from. They are leeches and nothing more.

Atlantic Dawn

Is it possible this child is related to the child found in Greece? That would be a good DNA test to compare, may have originated from the same source.

el pasco

elfy4eva wrote: »

Just out of interest to what we do know in regards to this case.
Is it unusual the the Coombe hospital have no evidence of the birth.

Do hospitals usually keep a full record of all children born?

Never heard of a parent NOT knowing the details if their child's birth vsuspect case

Lapin

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well they contacted The Last Word on Today FM to offer their words of wisdom about an hour ago when the topic was being discussed.

Martin Collins was on Drivetime on RTE too telling us how the poor Roma are downtrodden and misunderstood by the settled community.

You'd think butter wouldn't melt in their mouths.

I'm sick of Pavee apologists like Collins trying to tell me I'm a racist simply because I'm a white Irish male who happens to disagree with him and I ask questions like - Name one member of the Roma community who has made one positive contribution to Irish society?


Fúck off Pavee Point and stop trying to take intelligent people for complete morons.

Nodin

Shout Dust wrote: »

No, but as the HSE and Gardai have said, its very unusual for them to remove a child from its family. Combined with the hospital records not matching up it looks very suspect

Indeed. Suspect. And when the DNA comes back, we'll have a far better notion.

ceadaoin.

It's sickening that in this day and age women and girls are treated as commodities to be bought and sold. If the sources quoted earlier are correct then these girls would likely have been sold into prostitution when they were old enough. For all we know, they are the children of women who have already suffered the same fate, sent off for safe keeping until they can earn some proper money. I really hope there is a proper Europe wide investigation into this and it doesn't just fizzle out as one of those unsolved cases.

chopper6

tayto lover wrote: »

Any links to support that claim please?

I'll give ya one
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2440072/The-shamed-faces-Roma-men-accused-selling-women-stealing-skills-France-launches-major-crackdown-community.html

el pasco

Lapin wrote: »

Martin Collins was on Drivetime on RTE too telling us how the poor Roma are downtrodden and misunderstood by the settled community.

You'd think butter wouldn't melt in their mouths.

I'm sick of Pavee apologists like Collins trying to tell me I'm a racist simply because I'm a white Irish male who happens to disagree with him and I ask questions like - Name one member of the Roma community who has made one positive contribution to Irish society?


Fúck off Pavee Point and stop trying to take intelligent people for complete morons.

It's not that it's that their is one law for them and one law for everyone else
I don't care where people are from I have friends from all over the world and have gone out with people of different nationalities etc and by and large they obey the law live in house pay tax etc
So why should the law be different for them??
If I just set up a camp at the side of the road I'd be moved on by Garda
Or was involved in fights etc or other
Criminal activity they're be no peace talks just jail and rightly so
So why is it different for them
Like if I build an illegal camp at the side if the road what do you expect??
It's the side if the road so therefor no gas or electricity toilet etc simple
How come Polish Chinese Latvians Indians can all be by and large civilised and they can't
They don't bother sendin there kids to school yet complain they can't read it write I wonder why?
They have huge fight and brings guns and pick axes to wedding funeral christings etc the Garda armed supported unit had to be called to many a traveller funeral wedding christing etc

Even at a blessing of the graves thy had a huge fight like this is sicking behaviour

They drive big brand new BMW merc Lexus etc while still claiming dole how is this possible

They law is the law for everyone

Pretzill

tayto lover wrote: »

Any links to support that claim please?

I'm surprised people aren't as clued in to the trafficking problems. Perhaps it's part of the reason this has become so endemic. Authorities seem to be doing little to stop what seems to me a form of sex slavery robbing countless women of a decent life.

I don't know if this is related to these cases but I hope it shines a brght light on this horrendous crime, bring some of those behind it to justice and help these women.

I watched a movie recently called 'The Whistleblower' about the subject of trafficking girls into forced prostition - It got me so mad I felt like kicking the telly.

IRE60

Lapin wrote: »

Martin Collins was on Drivetime on RTE too telling us how the poor Roma are downtrodden and misunderstood by the settled community.

You'd think butter wouldn't melt in their mouths.

I'm sick of Pavee apologists like Collins trying to tell me I'm a racist simply because I'm a white Irish male who happens to disagree with him and I ask questions like - Name one member of the Roma community who has made one positive contribution to Irish society?


Fúck off Pavee Point and stop trying to take intelligent people for complete morons.

I heard it - ridiculous in the extreme.

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

How is it?
If it's true then there must be loads of links surely.

watch this

one father selling his 9 year old daughter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGDj0B5WQaA

BurnsCarpenter

Lapin wrote: »

Martin Collins was on Drivetime on RTE too telling us how the poor Roma are downtrodden and misunderstood by the settled community.

You'd think butter wouldn't melt in their mouths.

I'm sick of Pavee apologists like Collins trying to tell me I'm a racist simply because I'm a white Irish male who happens to disagree with him and I ask questions like - Name one member of the Roma community who has made one positive contribution to Irish society?

Ok, here are some Roma, with the assistance of an Irish charity, making a positive contribution to Irish society:

http://www.corkindependent.com/20131010/news/blackpool-community-joins-forces-with-roma-S73702.html

emo72

dj jarvis wrote: »

watch this

one father selling his 9 year old daughter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGDj0B5WQaA

just watched it. excellent documentary. basically the right thing to do would be to remove the children from the roma. harsh but they are only using them to rob. the children have no quality of life, and if they were my kids i would lose them.

seamus

Lapin wrote: »

Martin Collins was on Drivetime on RTE too telling us how the poor Roma are downtrodden and misunderstood by the settled community.

It's valid up to a point. Not that they're downtrodden or misunderstood, but rather that they're just ignored.

If I were to take my one year old daughter out in the wind and rain and sit begging outside a supermarket it wouldn't be long before I found myself looking up at a Garda and a social worker and losing custody of my child. Quite rightly.

A Roma woman does it and what does she get? Moved on, at best. Maybe it's because we're too PC and terrified to enforce the law against minorities, or maybe it's the opposite and we as a society don't consider them worth the effort.

Either way, it's kind of a problem of our own making. If we took the effort to interfere, to make house calls on their camps checking up on their children, lifting child beggars (or infants) off the streets and putting them up for adoption instead of sending them home, then it would be impossible for them to get away child trafficking or even this bizarre practice of what appears in the tamest sense to be child swapping.
Instead, society has ignored them, and the children in their care, and allowed child trafficking to become rooted in their practices, alongside panhandling and petty thievery.

deseil

What about any of the darker kids that they may have taken chances are they ll never be found.

JAMM222

According to the Sunday world her "aunt" says she will be home tomorrow http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/news/roma-girl-s-family-says-it-will-be-all-okay-shell-be-home-tomorrow

emo72

rte news said there was developments tonight but they cant report it. it may tie in with the sunday world report that she is going home tomorrow. everyone should watch the documentary posted above before drawing conclusions.

ted1

At this stage I really do hope she is not theirs.

If she is the Irish legal system has a lot to answer for. Racial profiling etc, will they be taking the black babies of the white girls in town.

shruikan2553

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Pavee point are sticking their oar in now, was only a matter of time I suppose.

Human trafficking may be a part of their culture. Who are we to change that? They should get the benefits of society but if giving anything back goes against their culture we can't expect them too.

dj jarvis

ted1 wrote: »

At this stage I really do hope she is not theirs.

If she is the Irish legal system has a lot to answer for. Racial profiling etc, will they be taking the black babies of the white girls in town.

in fairness , with what happened in greece , they were WELL within their rights.

i would rather they were wrong 100 times , than letting one child who was trafficked / kidnapped slip away with the kidnappers.

some you just cant win