traffic

Mrs OBumble

Mohammed Muscular Beginner wrote: »

I can't see why anyone has the right to dictate where people live and that is the direction a few people are moving in.

There a many very good reasons why people live in rural areas and even if they weren't good reason, wanting to is reason enough and if someone chooses to live in the country ....

So you're not a big fan of people having to get planning permission then. Sure'n just let people build one-off housing all over the country ..... no need to conserve anything .... :rolleyes:

If soemone chooses to live in XXX, then they shoud be getting the serivces they need close to XXXX. That includes a source of income.

zarquon

zarquon wrote: »

A fine idea in theory but unfortunately the infrastructure of Galway cannot support increased traffic flows and an increase in parking availability would further choke the city centre.

You cannot squeeze blood from a stone by trying to allocate additional parking to cater for everyone who wishes to commute to the city centre and thereby increase city traffic.

Well as is already happening, new business are mostly locating on the outskirts of the city in industrial estates where parking is plentiful so in reality there isn't going to be huge increases in the number of people working in the city centre going forward as (and rightly so) new businesses will be located there. Living rurally and commuting by car is very suitable when there place of work is located in these areas for instance.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you're not a big fan of people having to get planning permission then. Sure'n just let people build one-off housing all over the country ..... no need to conserve anything .... :rolleyes:

If soemone chooses to live in XXX, then they shoud be getting the serivces they need close to XXXX. That includes a source of income.

Your point is so weak you have to take my post apart. Of course you have to stay within planning regulations but they wont stop you living where you want within reason.

You have such a simplistic view of things if you think everyone is willing to let the place they work dictate where they live (again within reason, you wont live in galway and work in dublin obviously).

There are many reason and most of them very good reason why people choose to live where they do. Are you saying that its unreasonable for someone to live say 20 to 30km from galway and commute in for work?

galwaycyclist

Mohammed Muscular Beginner wrote: »

There are many reason and most of them very good reason why people choose to live where they do. Are you saying that its unreasonable for someone to live say 20 to 30km from galway and commute in for work?

Yes it is an unreasonable expectation if it imposes on the general well being of other people.

As you say people can choose to live where they like. However, why should the people who live in the city have their quality of life and environment degraded to cater for other peoples lifestyle choices?

If you can get a cheap site for yourself out the country good luck to you. But if you want the rest of us to pay the price for your lifestyle choices then thats a different matter.

Mahogany Gaspipe

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Yes it is an unreasonable expectation if it imposes on the general well being of other people.

As you say people can choose to live where they like. However, why should the people who live in the city have their quality of life and environment degraded to cater for other peoples lifestyle choices?

If you can get a cheap site for yourself out the country good luck to you. But if you want the rest of us to pay the price for your lifestyle choices then thats a different matter.

Totally agree with this well thought out out logic.

I live in Kilcolgan. The Galway/ Limerick route gets pretty damn busy so I propose alleviating a lot of traffic, which is ruining my quality of life and environment degrading, by implementation of your brilliant idea.

Only people who choose to live outside the city; may use the roads outside of the city.
If you live in the city and would like to travel to say Limerick that's fine; but forgot about using the N18 past Dougiska to travel there; That's part of the county road network and I've not have city dwellers added to my traffic woes, block up my country road, polluting my country air. They can piss off and swim,fly take the train to Limerick.

If they wanted to use the local country facilities; they should have bought there house out there.

The traffic jams outside my house in the country are as much of an issue for my neighbors and I, as what you have to put up with in town.

Discodog

Proper park & ride would make a big difference. There is plenty of land for parking.

Liverpool have opened all their bus lanes to other traffic in a trial.

galwaycyclist

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Yes it is an unreasonable expectation if it imposes on the general well being of other people.

As you say people can choose to live where they like. However, why should the people who live in the city have their quality of life and environment degraded to cater for other peoples lifestyle choices?

Well I could say the same about people living in the city, why should their lifestyle choice to live near to work impact on the choice of people who want to live in the country, i.e. Planning which is benefiting people in the city while making life harder on those in the country. Living in cities in Ireland is a new thing traditionally people lived in the country.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

If you can get a cheap site for yourself out the country good luck to you. But if you want the rest of us to pay the price for your lifestyle choices then thats a different matter.

I can get as many free sites as I want but that's only one reason why someone might want to live in the country. We also have a farm at home, like a lot of people who also work in cities. People may move into an already existing family home or choose to stay living at home. People want to live near family for many reasons, many of them very practical and financial like when kids come along they are right beside their grandparents for looking after them during the day. These are just some examples.

Basically life is about living and having why let your place of work dictate where you life when it's all the other aspects of life may be much better and more enjoyable in a different area (again within reason as longer distances are not practical.

Even people with no connection to an area can buy an vastly superior house in a much nicer environment for much less than in a city which is a very good reason in any bodies books.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

Proper park & ride would make a big difference. There is plenty of land for parking.

It also negates a lot of the benefits of having the car. Say I come in from the headford direction and I'm working in NUIG. After work I'm meeting a friend for a run on the prom and after that I need to visit someone in hospital in Merlin park followed by a stop off in supervalue in ballybane on the way home.

If I have the car, I drive to work. After work drive to the prom, after my run continue on out to Merlin and finally head back out towards home all nice, simple and easy.

If my car is in a park and ride out towards headford then it's going to make my plan extremely awkward if not impossible.

Mrs OBumble

Mohammed Muscular Beginner wrote: »

Basically life is about living and having why let your place of work dictate where you life

I never suggested this. IMHO, your desired place of residence should be chosen with a range of factors in mind, including the economics of making a living there: if you want to live on a farm, then you should be making your living there or close to it.

Dev may have dreamed of a rural Ireland untouched by the evils of city living (or so I'm told), but that is simply not a practical way to run a country with millions of residents.

Right now, I have a number of colleagues who commute to Galway every day from Limerick and similar. 'Tis madness - and extremely environmentally damaging as well as giving them sh*te quality of life because they're virtually never at home to appreciate it.

Eeden

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I never suggested this. IMHO, your desired place of residence should be chosen with a range of factors in mind, including the economics of making a living there: if you want to live on a farm, then you should be making your living there or close to it.

Dev may have dreamed of a rural Ireland untouched by the evils of city living (or so I'm told), but that is simply not a practical way to run a country with millions of residents.

Right now, I have a number of colleagues who commute to Galway every day from Limerick and similar. 'Tis madness - and extremely environmentally damaging as well as giving them sh*te quality of life because they're virtually never at home to appreciate it.

But what are you supposed to do if your workplace decides to relocate to the other side of town because of cheaper rents (as mine is trying to do)? Or if you have two people in the household working, each on a different side of town?

Changing jobs or homes is not an easy thing to do for most people at the moment (what with job insecurity, negative equity, etc), and I imagine a lot of people are stuck with a longer commute than they would like for those reasons.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I never suggested this. IMHO, your desired place of residence should be chosen with a range of factors in mind, including the economics of making a living there: if you want to live on a farm, then you should be making your living there or close to it.
.

The chance of me getting the type of job that would suit outside the city or the outskirts of it are almost zero but I also want to help on the farm and eventually work it myself on the side as my father does this involves living there.

Even if I was living in town I'd be in and out to home almost daily as I see friends of mine who have moved in but have home places nearby doing now.

Aside from the farm aspect I can't see how you would think it makes sense for someone who has either a family home or a place to build their own home in the county which will cost them less for a far superior place to live, with the advantages of living near family to move into town.

As an aside I'd agree with you that long term Limerick to Galway is too far to commute as it stands, on a relatively short term basis it would be doable. With a motorway all the way it's feasible but still expensive in fuel. I'm not talking about living closer than this though, for me it would be 25km, a 15 minute drive when there is no traffic.

kippy

Eeden wrote: »

But what are you supposed to do if your workplace decides to relocate to the other side of town because of cheaper rents (as mine is trying to do)? Or if you have two people in the household working, each on a different side of town?

Changing jobs or homes is not an easy thing to do for most people at the moment (what with job insecurity, negative equity, etc), and I imagine a lot of people are stuck with a longer commute than they would like for those reasons.

Yep, moving jobs on a whim ain't an easy thing to do no matter where you are.
I'd suggest that people would, if they could, generally work closer to home however the reality of the situation is most of the jobs are in the urban centre's and its actually not possible, for numerous reasons for EVERYONE to line in and urban center.

Discodog

Mohammed Muscular Beginner wrote: »

It also negates a lot of the benefits of having the car. Say I come in from the headford direction and I'm working in NUIG. After work I'm meeting a friend for a run on the prom and after that I need to visit someone in hospital in Merlin park followed by a stop off in supervalue in ballybane on the way home.

If I have the car, I drive to work. After work drive to the prom, after my run continue on out to Merlin and finally head back out towards home all nice, simple and easy.

If my car is in a park and ride out towards headford then it's going to make my plan extremely awkward if not impossible.

Not everyone's day is so involved. Many drive in to work or shop. Park & ride can work really well, for example as in Oxford.

galwaycyclist

Mahogany Gaspipe wrote: »

Totally agree with this well thought out out logic.

I live in Kilcolgan. The Galway/ Limerick route gets pretty damn busy so I propose alleviating a lot of traffic, which is ruining my quality of life and environment degrading, by implementation of your brilliant idea.

Only people who choose to live outside the city; may use the roads outside of the city.
If you live in the city and would like to travel to say Limerick that's fine; but forgot about using the N18 past Dougiska to travel there; That's part of the county road network and I've not have city dwellers added to my traffic woes, block up my country road, polluting my country air. They can piss off and swim,fly take the train to Limerick.

If they wanted to use the local country facilities; they should have bought there house out there.

The traffic jams outside my house in the country are as much of an issue for my neighbors and I, as what you have to put up with in town.

Actually believe it or not I partially agree with you. One of the problems with traffic management in this country is the idiotic idea that all roads are available for anyone in a car to use.

Guess what? They shouldnt be.

Some roads, such as the N18, have a strategic "link" function and should be available to anybody.

Other roads such as minor roads around Kilcolgan or residential streets in Galway city have a " place" function. These roads are places where people live, where children play, where social interaction takes place, where livestock get moved between fields.

On roads that have a clear "place" function, traffic that has no business there - "through traffic" - should be absolutely forbidden. And this is exactly what happens in some countries.

If this is what should apply on many roads in the city it is also something that should apply on many country roads.

fergiesfolly

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Actually believe it or not I partially agree with you. One of the problems with traffic management in this country is the idiotic idea that all roads are available for anyone in a car to use.

Guess what? They shouldnt be.

Some roads, such as the N18, have a strategic "link" function and should be available to anybody.

Other roads such as minor roads around Kilcolgan or residential streets in Galway city have a " place" function. These roads are places where people live, where children play, where social interaction takes place, where livestock get moved between fields.

On roads that have a clear "place" function, traffic that has no business there - "through traffic" - should be absolutely forbidden. And this is exactly what happens in some countries.

If this is what should apply on many roads in the city it is also something that should apply on many country roads.

Jesus wept!
I happen to love driving around the countryside discovering new places.
You're telling me now, that I can't leave my own neighborhood unless I have a specific, direct route to a preplanned location.
Ja wohl, mein Fuhrer!

snubbleste

Unholy row as Council blames clergy for traffic chaos

Negligent clerics have been blamed for the traffic chaos throughout the city on Tuesday – as up to 40,000 people visited the Cathedral ‘without warning’.
The Head of the GTU has said he was not given advance warning of the ‘tour’ of the relics – which added anything up to 10,000 cars to the city’s road network.
Jim Molloy said the traffic was the worst he’d ever seen and compared it to the catastrophe that would be caused if the Council had to shut down the Quincentenary Bridge.

what_traffic

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Jesus wept!
I happen to love driving around the countryside discovering new places.
You're telling me now, that I can't leave my own neighborhood unless I have a specific, direct route to a preplanned location.
Ja wohl, mein Fuhrer!

Can you please translate the English section as well.

You have lost the argument here - Godwins Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law.

what_traffic

Mahogany Gaspipe wrote: »

I live in Kilcolgan. The Galway/ Limerick route gets pretty damn busy so I propose alleviating a lot of traffic, which is ruining my quality of life and environment degrading, by implementation of your brilliant idea.

I think the NRA are ahead of you on this one. Is that not why the M18 motorway Gort to Tuam is being built?

FlashD

Traffic in Galway is a mess and a nightmare....and it only seems like they are making it worse by putting traffic lights everywhere, no flow to the traffic anymore.

After all the work at the Bodkin roundabout, the result is a confusing forest of traffic lights and a maze of junctions criss crossing over each other, absolute shambles! Waste of money!

antoobrien

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Actually believe it or not I partially agree with you. One of the problems with traffic management in this country is the idiotic idea that all roads are available for anyone in a car to use.

Guess what? They shouldnt be.

Some roads, such as the N18, have a strategic "link" function and should be available to anybody.

Other roads such as minor roads around Kilcolgan or residential streets in Galway city have a " place" function. These roads are places where people live, where children play, where social interaction takes place, where livestock get moved between fields.

On roads that have a clear "place" function, traffic that has no business there - "through traffic" - should be absolutely forbidden. And this is exactly what happens in some countries.

If this is what should apply on many roads in the city it is also something that should apply on many country roads.

So you'd be in favour of providing alternatives for through traffic to avoid certain parts of Galway, just as long as they are not Galway city?

galwaycyclist

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Jesus wept!
I happen to love driving around the countryside discovering new places.
You're telling me now, that I can't leave my own neighborhood unless I have a specific, direct route to a preplanned location.

One mans "countryside discoverer" is another mans "rat runner" booting down minor roads and making it impossible for local residents to enjoy the full and proper use of the amenities of their local neighbourhoods.

I am telling you that you can leave your neighbourhood any time you like. You just can't be permitted make unrestricted use of other peoples neighbourhoods for your own personal gratification in your car. Or if you are allowed access to local roads it happens on clear conditions, such as certain speed restrictions or leaving the area by the route you came in. These are established concepts in traffic management elsewhere.

galwaycyclist

antoobrien wrote: »

So you'd be in favour of providing alternatives for through traffic to avoid certain parts of Galway, just as long as they are not Galway city?

You'll need to expand your question there.

galwaycyclist

galwaycyclist wrote: »

One mans "countryside discoverer" is another mans "rat runner" booting down minor roads and making it impossible for local residents to enjoy the full and proper use of the amenities of their local neighbourhoods.

I am telling you that you can leave your neighbourhood any time you like. You just can't be permitted make unrestricted use of other peoples neighbourhoods for your own personal gratification in your car. Or if you are allowed access to local roads it happens on clear conditions, such as certain speed restrictions or leaving the area by the route you came in. These are established concepts in traffic management elsewhere.

This is one of the most stupid things I have ever read (this and the previous post on banning people from getting around on public roads). It's absolute and utter nonsense, you would be laughed out the door if you suggested this to anyone in real life.

I am as entitled to use the public road outside your house as you are and vice versa. That will never change unless we turn into a communist or a fascist state in the future.

what_traffic

Mohammed Muscular Beginner wrote: »

I am as entitled to use the public road outside your house as you are and vice versa. That will never change unless we turn into a communist or a fascist state in the future.

Such weak arguments.
I dont think Holland, Denmark, USA or Germany correspond to your above bluster, they all have this principle that galwaycyclist outlines.

GekkePrutser

Mohammed Muscular Beginner wrote: »

This is one of the most stupid things I have ever read (this and the previous post on banning people from getting around on public roads). It's absolute and utter nonsense, you would be laughed out the door if you suggested this to anyone in real life.

I am as entitled to use the public road outside your house as you are and vice versa. That will never change unless we turn into a communist or a fascist state in the future.

In Holland that's actually quite common, certain streets that are known to be used as alternate routes are designated as 'local access only' during rush hour. It means that if you get stopped there during rush hour you have to be either a resident or must be able to prove you have to be in the area (e.g. a work order, delivery etc). The streets in question often run parallel to the motorway between 2 exits. Or between 2 different motorways. They often even have camera systems or these automatic roadblocks to enforce this.

I don't agree with these restrictions personally, I think it goes against the 'free world' principle but it does seem to be legally possible, at least over there.

fishy fishy

snubbleste wrote: »

Unholy row as Council blames clergy for traffic chaos

that was actually true - on Tuesday the traffic was extremely mental - worse than the novena time, christmas rush. It was at a standstill in places where on any other given day it was free-flowing. Not saying that traffic is not bad on other days but if you didn't notice the different how chronic it was on Tuesday ...... it was brutal.

McTigs

Mohammed Muscular Beginner wrote: »

At the end of the day, drivers pay a lot more to use the roads than bus users and cyclists who pay nothing and therefore should be accommodated most.

Wrong, Drivers contribute the most towards traffic congestion so they should be accomodated the least.

Traffic congestion is the problem, you don't address a problem by promoting the cause, you address it by promoting solutions ie. in this case any alternative to single occupancy car use.

I say this as a city centre living car owner who also cycles, walks and buses.

As for paying the most yeilding you greater importance. That's quite simply not how a republic works and it's a very dangerous way to think. Every citizen of the state has, or should have, equal right to the states infrastucture be it schools, hospitals, roads, courts etc...
Should people on the dole or low earners be pushed back to the end of the que in A&E? should their children have less right to schooling? It's the same rationale.

cyclists don't pay road tax because they cause no maintenance and it would be downright stupid to tax one of the few solutions we have to city centre traffic congestion. If people choose not to rely on the convenience of a car and instead take the bus they should be rewarded with bus lanes and traffic lights that work in their favour. If people choose to walk they should be rewarded with ease of crossing (which is not faciltated by roundabouts) Thankfully policy is moving in this direction. Years of facilitating car use over other modes has brought us to the chaos we have now. It hasn't worked.

galwaycyclist

Mohammed Muscular Beginner wrote: »

This is one of the most stupid things I have ever read (this and the previous post on banning people from getting around on public roads). It's absolute and utter nonsense, you would be laughed out the door if you suggested this to anyone in real life.

I am as entitled to use the public road outside your house as you are and vice versa. That will never change unless we turn into a communist or a fascist state in the future.

With regret, you might need to expand your horizons beyond a 30km commute to Galway.



In Germany this common road sign creates a residents only street. They've been around for years. If you live there you can drive into it. If you have business there you can drive into it. But if you try to drive through it going somewhere else you are breaking the law and you get fined EU20 in car or EU75 if you are in a lorry.

Its explained here
http://www.ffh.de/news-service/auto/toController/Topic/toAction/show/toId/18661/toTopic/was-darf-man-beim-anlieger-frei-schild.html

There is a similar sign/law that restricts local rural roads to agricultural traffic or landowners. Well established traffic management ideas that have been around for years.

Edit: And yes my car is fully taxed

galwaycyclist

galwaycyclist wrote: »

With regret, you might need to expand your horizons beyond a 30km commute to Galway.



In Germany this common road sign creates a residents only street. They've been around for years. If you live there you can drive into it. If you have business there you can drive into it. But if you try to drive through it going somewhere else you are breaking the law and you get fined EU20 in car or EU75 if you are in a lorry.

Its explained here
http://www.ffh.de/news-service/auto/toController/Topic/toAction/show/toId/18661/toTopic/was-darf-man-beim-anlieger-frei-schild.html

There is a similar sign/law that restricts local rural roads to agricultural traffic or landowners. Well established traffic management ideas that have been around for years.

Edit: And yes my car is fully taxed

Just because other countries do stupid things does not mean we have to follow them like sheep.

Iwannahurl

Mohammed Muscular Beginner wrote: »

Just because other countries do stupid things does not mean we have to follow them like sheep.

Hmmm, why do stupid German, Dutch and Danish things when you can do bloody stupid Irish things?

http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/1621-unholy-row-as-council-blames-clergy-for-traffic-chaos



EDIT: missed snubbleste's posting of the above earlier.

snubbleste

What would the Council have done anyway about Tuesday's traffic if they'd known that a dead man was going to be at a church?
It just smacks of shifting the blame.