Government to set min price on gargle

yoyo

HansHolzel wrote: »

Sigh. Get your facts right. Five EU countries only objected last July. Therefore the only judgement so far is this one.

BBC 3 May 2013:

"A legal challenge to the Scottish government's plans to introduce minimum pricing per unit of alcohol has failed.

The Scotch Whisky Association (SWA) took action against the proposal, which it said would breach European law, after it was passed by MSPs.

A Court of Session ruling dismissed the action and said plans to introduce 50p per unit minimum pricing were legal.

The SWA said it was surprised and disappointed by the ruling and would appeal the decision.

Lord Doherty said the minimum alcohol pricing policy was within the powers of Scottish ministers and not incompatible with EU law.

A summary of his decision said: "The court ruled that the Acts of Union were not an impediment to the minimum pricing measures. The court also decided that the measures were not incompatible with EU law."

Other member states have tried - and failed - to make this argument in the European Court before, for example to restrict the sale of cigarettes, and the European Commission's own lawyers have already argued that Scotland's policy would fail these tests.
Scottish ministers still have a fight on their hands.

Just because the court believes the policy isn't incompatible with EU law doesn't mean the EU would agree.
Also what do you think about publicans/nightclubs and off licenses being required to be more responsible instead, not serving intoxicated persons any alcohol and receiving heavy fines if caught doing so?
What would you think of punishing people who are drunk and disorderly in public, €100 fine or else court. Force alcohol related A&E/hospital submissions to be paid for by the drunk individual?
There are much more sensible solutions to the "problem", but of course the VFI/publicans couldn't give 2 sh!ts about the health of drinkers once they make maximum profit.
It's funny how in the good 'ole days alcohol abuse was never an "issue" when people got locked in pubs instead.
I'm sure the Gardai/Hospitals would be able to show statistically more of the alcohol related problems are from pub/club goers at pub/club kicking out time, particularly at weekends. So I think a though law preventing pubs/clubs serving drunk people is a more reasonable solution.

Nick

HansHolzel

A lot of assumptions there

yoyo

HansHolzel wrote: »

A lot of assumptions there

Do you agree or disagree with what I suggested? And until the EU confirm it is legal then of course we have to assume.

Nick

HansHolzel

yoyo wrote: »

Do you agree or disagree with what I suggested? And until the EU confirm it is legal then of course we have to assume.

Nick

I'm afraid I have to stick to my view that cheap drink is simply bad for Irish society and that the home drinking it encourages is worse than that in public places, where there are people (bar staff, police) empowered to say stop.

My opinion on home drinking is influenced by professionals such as a senior doctor of my acquaintance who has helped out at Aiséirí.

HansHolzel

Anecdotal evidence (news items) would also suggest that far more people in this country are killed at house parties than at pubs/nightclubs.

mikom

HansHolzel wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence (news items) would also suggest that far more people in this country are killed at house parties than at pubs/nightclubs.

Have you any figures for the ratio of houses to pubs/nightclubs in the country?

yoyo

HansHolzel wrote: »

I'm afraid I have to stick to my view that cheap drink is simply bad for Irish society and that the home drinking it encourages is worse than that in public places, where there are people (bar staff, police) empowered to say stop.

My opinion on home drinking is influenced by professionals such as a senior doctor of my acquaintance who has helped out at Aiséirí.

My experience of living in Temple Bar for just over 2 years would suggest that pub goers are just as likely to be wasting the emergency services time as home drinking (I don't have stats here, but lets face it none of us do). If the government were really keen on addressing the issue they should attempt to target both the rich and the poorer drinkers. Raising the prices of drink won't stop people drinking at home or house partys/incidents either lats face it.
Either way being on the piss everyday at home or in the pub is just as bad for you, I know a alcoholic who stumbled and fell needing hospital treatment returning from the pub. I also know a raging alcoholic who never drank at home, who also hypocritically criticized the idea while knocking back over 20 pints a day in the pub.
Pricing won't solve this issue, and it's quite clear this is a push by the VFI to attempt to drive more in to the pub, which lets face it is hardly going to be a "controlled environment" for an alcoholic nor help avoiding alcohol related issues.

Nick

rubadub

HansHolzel wrote: »

I'm afraid I have to stick to my view that cheap drink is simply bad for Irish society.

Then you should be glad we don't have cheap drink here. The stats office has us 62% above the EU average. I doubt our wages are that much higher.

HansHolzel wrote: »

It shouldn't pay to get locked at home for the price of a few pints in the pub.

+1, I know, the markup the publicans have is astonishing.

HansHolzel wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence (news items) would also suggest that far more people in this country are killed at house parties than at pubs/nightclubs.

Any examples of this? only ones that spring to mind are gangland type killings at parties.

HansHolzel

rubadub wrote: »

Then you should be glad we don't have cheap drink here. The stats office has us 62% above the EU average. I doubt our wages are that much higher.

+1, I know, the markup the publicans have is astonishing.

Any examples of this? only ones that spring to mind are gangland type killings at parties.

No cheap drink in Ireland? Ah here... do you get down to the shops much?

yoyo

HansHolzel wrote: »

No cheap drink in Ireland? Ah here... do you get down to the shops much?

On average a euro at least a can. Generally 4 cans for €5, 6 cans for €7. Considering some pubs sell pints for €3 (a pint contains slightly more ML) I don't see how Ireland has cheap off-license prices.
"Premium" (term used loosely) beers like Heineken, Bud, Miller generally cost nearly €2 a can, €4~ in a bar, so there's not a considerable difference considering with the can you get no service, accommodation etc. while you consume it.

Nick

rubadub

HansHolzel wrote: »

No cheap drink in Ireland? Ah here... do you get down to the shops much?

Ah here, do you travel to other countries much? You can check out prices online if you don't.

How are you determining that it is "cheap"?

MadYaker

Drink is cheaper in every other EU country I've been to, bar the Scandanavians. I wonder how the GDPs compare??

Banjo String

Banjo String wrote: »

€14.30 for two pints of beer. (Not even craft beer either)

Maybe the govt and the VFI have their priorities wrong.

Introduce a MAXIMUM that they can sell drink at. They really shouldn't be wondering as to why their pub trade is dying out with rip off prices like this.

Seems the indo has picked up on this receipt now too.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-715-pint-that-people-rarely-complain-about-29724868.html

HansHolzel

rubadub wrote: »

Ah here, do you travel to other countries much? You can check out prices online if you don't.

How are you determining that it is "cheap"?

if you got it for nothing it still wouldn't be cheap enough for some of you

HansHolzel

mikom wrote: »

Have you any figures for the ratio of houses to pubs/nightclubs in the country?

It may come as news to students and members of the welfare class but drinking parties aren't the norm in most houses.

Grown ups tend to be busy working, paying mortgages, rearing kids etc.

jester77

HansHolzel wrote: »

No cheap drink in Ireland? Ah here... do you get down to the shops much?

You need to get out more, drink is expensive in Ireland. Here in Germany I can get 8 bottles of Astra for €2 on promotion in my local supermarket, wouldn't be great though, on a par with budweiser. A real quality 6-pack costs about €3.60.

Amirani

HansHolzel wrote: »

It may come as news to students and members of the welfare class but drinking parties aren't the norm in most houses.

Grown ups tend to be busy working, paying mortgages, rearing kids etc.

"Grown ups" don't have house parties? Are you having a laugh?

HansHolzel

jester77 wrote: »

You need to get out more, drink is expensive in Ireland. Here in Germany I can get 8 bottles of Astra for €2 on promotion in my local supermarket, wouldn't be great though, on a par with budweiser. A real quality 6-pack costs about €3.60.

Knock yourself out, as the Americans say.

HansHolzel

NiallSparky wrote: »

"Grown ups" don't have house parties? Are you having a laugh?

Drinking parties, I wrote. Read first. Then comment.

Banjo String

HansHolzel wrote: »

Drinking parties, I wrote. Read first. Then comment.

Do they take place in the turf shed, or the house?

HansHolzel

Banjo String wrote: »

Do they take place in the turf shed, or the house?

See Elizabeth Bishop's The Prodigal ;-)

The brown enormous odor he lived by
was too close, with its breathing and thick hair,
for him to judge. The floor was rotten; the sty
was plastered halfway up with glass-smooth dung.
Light-lashed, self-righteous, above moving snouts,
the pigs' eyes followed him, a cheerful stare--
even to the sow that always ate her young--
till, sickening, he leaned to scratch her head.
But sometimes mornings after drinking bouts
(he hid the pints behind the two-by-fours),
the sunrise glazed the barnyard mud with red
the burning puddles seemed to reassure.
And then he thought he almost might endure
his exile yet another year or more.

0ph0rce0

HansHolzel wrote: »

It may come as news to students and members of the welfare class but drinking parties aren't the norm in most houses.

Grown ups tend to be busy working, paying mortgages, rearing kids etc.

Stupidest post ever :rolleyes:

mathepac

Banjo String wrote: »

Or bow out and admit your argument doesn't mean jack

No it's just that reasonable discourse seldom progresses with unreasonable people.

HansHolzel

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Stupidest post ever :rolleyes:

"Stupidest" isn't even a word.

but

'Stupidest' is as 'stupidest' does, I suppose.

0ph0rce0

HansHolzel wrote: »

"Stupidest" isn't even a word.

but

'Stupidest' is as 'stupidest' does, I suppose.

Hahahaha you made a funny

But it is a word, I just wrote it didn't I???

Whisko

HansHolzel wrote: »

"Stupidest" isn't even a word.

but

'Stupidest' is as 'stupidest' does, I suppose.

Stupidest is a word. It has meaning, therefore it is a word.

You are therefore the stupidest person in this thread.

HansHolzel

Whisko wrote: »

Stupidest is a word. It has meaning, therefore it is a word.

You are therefore the stupidest person in this thread.

Giving you the finger has meaning. It isn't a word ;-) dumbass.

Baron Kurtz

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stupidest?s=t

HansHolzel

Baron Kurtz wrote: »

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stupidest?s=t

The Oxford English Dictionary has no entry for “stupidest” but merely quotes it as said by various people, which does not make it right.

HansHolzel

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Hahahaha you made a funny

But it is a word, I just wrote it didn't I???

xyofkferfgbcbbcbjkccsbcbjbcsdbchchcklkdbbbvcvc

But it is a word, I just wrote it didn't I???