Government to set min price on gargle

ScumLord

The problem with drink in Ireland seems to be almost entirely focused on overindulgence at the weekend.

Most the pubs in my town are empty these days, people (at least people my age in their 30s) aren't drinking nearly as much as they used to. Binge drinking is restricted to young people from 18 - 30 for the most part I reckon and I don't see how making drink more expensive is going to stop them. They want to go out on the weekend and get drunk, not have a few drinks, they want to get drunk. Raising the price on those people will only encourage them to get more creative, it won't reduce how drunk they get.

Since I've switched over to drinking ales or other speciality beers I am forced to drink at home, they don't stock anything I'd like to drink in a pub anymore and if they did it would be too expensive to even consider trying. At this stage I buy 6-8 bottles of beer and they more or less last me the weekend. This will end up being another nail in the coffin of the Irish pub rather than forcing people back into the pub as I'm sure the vintiners association is expecting.

If anything they should be reducing the tax on locally produced alcoholic drinks to boost local businesses.

humbert

Jimoslimos wrote: »

You ever hear of methanol poisoning? Black market alcohol is a bad thing.

While I'm no expert on what is sold in Ireland on the black market, methanol poisoning is generally the result of home brewing and black market alcohol is usually not home brewed but simply smuggled. Have their been cases of poisoning from black market alcohol?

darkpagandeath

http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-prices-alcohol-cigarettes-960757-Jun2013/

Most expensive in the EU how about lowering the price ..

Potatoeman

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Then they are already likely abusing or neglecting their dependents to some degree. If these things become apparent the state is obligated to step in and do something but only then. You cant make decisions based on how it will affect addicts who will neglect their children to get their fix. No more than you can give them extra welfare payments to cover the cost of the alcohol.

This is how gangs make money. They illegally import and sell goods that are targeted for tax hikes. They increase the tax so much that it's profitable to ship products half way across the globe. It's just creating another market for illegal activity. Why can't they educate people in school to have a proper relationship with alcohol.

laugh

What a joke compared to the continent.

Off Licences closing at 10 pm, and now artificially high prices for alcohol, is there anything the vintners cannot get away with? How many TDs are publicans?

darkpagandeath

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/9789264183896-en/02/06/g2-06-01.html?contentType=/ns/StatisticalPublication,/ns/Chapter&itemId=/content/chapter/9789264183896-25-en&containerItemId=/content/serial/23056088&accessItemIds=&mimeType=text/html

And were in the middle for alcohol consumption not the top by any stretch of the imagination. So why the constant shouting were the biggest drinkers in the EU boll*x come from ?

Artful_Badger

Potatoeman wrote: »

This is how gangs make money. They illegally import and sell goods that are targeted for tax hikes. They increase the tax so much that it's profitable to ship products half way across the globe. It's just creating another market for illegal activity. Why can't they educate people in school to have a proper relationship with alcohol.

I agree but its not really got anything to do with my post. I never said I was for the min price, I just dont agree with that one particular argument I responded to.

rubadub

humbert wrote: »

While I'm no expert on what is sold in Ireland on the black market, methanol poisoning is generally the result of home brewing and black market alcohol is usually not home brewed but simply smuggled. Have their been cases of poisoning from black market alcohol?

You have that totally backwards. Methanol is present in many fermented products, its in beer, it naturally occurs in unfermented apple juice. I have never EVER seen a case of methanol poisoning due to home brewed & distilled spirits, and I have searched hard. This myth gives it a bad name.

Gangs will raid warehouses and steal methanol or other industrial alcohols and sell them as vodka or other spirits. This is very well documented, loads of cases.

Some gangs will just set up their own distilleries and have fake bottles of branded stuff.

Galwayguy35

Looks like all the bitching and moaning that the VFI have been doing has paid off, it was grand that we could get booze at a reasonable price in the offiie and now we don't even have that choice.

Well the pubs can fook off they still won't be getting any of my money and I suspect many others will feel the same, I think they scored an own goal on this one.

It's a bit galling to hear publicans going on about how cheap alcohol leads to health problems and how those big bad people in the supermarkets are all wrong to sell lower price booze.

I'm old enough to remember when the pub carparks were full of people driving home after a feed of pints, where was all the concern then?

BlurstMonkey

I have no words for how consistently disgusted I am with the Irish state. I ran out of bilge to vomit years ago and yet the circus continues. Such stupid, draconian, anti-enlightenment types should be relegated to history books by now. The country as a whole is craven for never having had the opportunity to thrive as a society, until recently, and then it was a baseless, deranged kind of animal for having no framework or direction.

syklops

Artful_Badger wrote: »

You cant make decisions based on how it will affect addicts who will neglect their children to get their fix. No more than you can give them extra welfare payments to cover the cost of the alcohol.

If the lobbyists for this legislation are to be believed, then alcoholism is rampant in this country. When the result of the legislation directly affects addicts and their families I would say it is irresponsible to make decisions and not think about how it affects addicts and their families.

goose2005

The system will be introduced after consultation with the Northern Ireland authorities to ensure that there are no major differences in the price structure on both sides of the border.

If you thought the loyalist were pissed off when you took the fleg down, wait until Buckfast jumps in price by £2 or £3. Still, a readymade source of revenue for every type of paramilitary/gangster

keeponhurling wrote: »

Part of my understands that drink can be a problem, A&E wards fulla t weekends due to a fewe drunken idiots.

Those are people who bought expensive pub/nightclub alcohol.

Dravokivich wrote: »

I think how you "fixed" it is part of the problem whit their attitude towards consumers. The assumption that anyone who purchases drink in large quantities is an alcoholic is nonsense, and charging them more in an "effort" to prevent them from buying more is just as nuts.

But even if you only consume a small amount, this will chip away at your resources even more.

Jimoslimos wrote: »

You ever hear of methanol poisoning? Black market alcohol is a bad thing.

Only black-market spirits. Homemade beer can't poison you.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

And were in the middle for alcohol consumption not the top by any stretch of the imagination. So why the constant shouting were the biggest drinkers in the EU boll*x come from ?

And the levels have been constantly dropping, I think from 13 L a year at peak down to less than 10.

DebDynamite

The system will be introduced after consultation with the Northern Ireland authorities to ensure that there are no major differences in the price structure on both sides of the border.

But why would the North increase the price of their drink because the South asked them to. What's in it for them?

Idbatterim

interested to see if it will make it worthwhile going up the north again, if it comes in... Not only will I buy alcohol in bulk, all of the grocery shopping will be done there too and Ill be filling up the tank with petrol (I couldnt care less if this costs a few pounds extra up north, it stops the parasites down here creaming off god knows what on a litre of fuel to squander and waste)...

But why would the North increase the price of their drink because the South asked them to. What's in it for them?

nothing except losing money from southerners if they comply...

BlurstMonkey

Jimoslimos wrote: »

You ever hear of methanol poisoning? Black market alcohol is a bad thing.

It's a by product of making spirits, not cider or beer fyi. And it isn't hard to make spirits correctly, there's nothing wrong with a reliable local supply, which some people do already have.

Temptamperu

So vintners or whatever have the government raise off sales prices to herd you back to their over priced pubs. Classic ireland.

Idbatterim

I am f**cking delighted weatherspoons and possibly other british chains are coming in!

Arawn

The vitners association can **** off.

biko

I'm willing to pay whatever a pint cost in the Dáil bar, nothing more.

end of the road

uch wrote: »

How exactly ?

because it won't stop underage drinking, it won't stop abuse of alcohol/binge drinking, it will cost to much to enforce as we will need more environmental inspectors to enforce the new regulations in relation to supermarkets, pointless, pointless, pointless, pointless, waste of time and money

ScumLord

Idbatterim wrote: »

interested to see if it will make it worthwhile going up the north again, if it comes in...

It wouldn't be worth a 3 hour drive to me. I might get more serious about doing home brew though, make me some 13% ale.

humbert

rubadub wrote: »

You have that totally backwards. Methanol is present in many fermented products, its in beer, it naturally occurs in unfermented apple juice. I have never EVER seen a case of methanol poisoning due to home brewed & distilled spirits, and I have searched hard. This myth gives it a bad name.

Gangs will raid warehouses and steal methanol or other industrial alcohols and sell them as vodka or other spirits. This is very well documented, loads of cases.

Some gangs will just set up their own distilleries and have fake bottles of branded stuff.

It seems you're right. When I was young I'd been told of farmers suffering ill effects having used vessels which previously contained, I think, formaldehyde. That story (which may have been bs) coupled with the lower boiling point of methanol making it seem plausible that it would make it through crude distillation instilled a distrust in me of home distillation.

Having done some googling I see that it is not unheard of for bootlegers to use methanol which is a scary thought, though I couldn't find any deaths in Ireland due to that either.

Galwayguy35

biko wrote: »

I'm willing to pay whatever a pint cost in the Dáil bar, nothing more.

Ha when I read that first I thought you meant the Dail bar in town.

MadYaker

Jimoslimos wrote: »

You ever hear of methanol poisoning? Black market alcohol is a bad thing.

Yes I know what methanol is. I'm not talking about homemade moonshine. I meant stuff smuggled in from other countries or stolen stuff being sold under the radar.

Atlantic Dawn

In the next referendum they are running they should tag on a vote asking the people do they support the minimum pricing of alcohol.

syklops

MadYaker wrote: »

Yes I know what methanol is. I'm not talking about homemade moonshine. I meant stuff smuggled in from other countries or stolen stuff being sold under the radar.

I know what you mean but unfortunately there is no way to tell the difference. When there was the poisonings in the Czech Republic last year, all major brands were affected. As a whiskey drinker Im confident that I could tell if what I was drinking wasn't what it said on the tin, but it was still scary stuff.

Bog Standard User

uch wrote: »

How exactly ?

alcoholic parents will be forced spend more on drink... they will spend less on their children's needs thus the problems these disadvantaged children suffer such as malnutrition and neglect increases.

if this increase in tax on drink is pushed through it will require more tax payer's money to be spend on social services who will then be required to deal with more n more neglected children.

the few pennies the government make from the extra tax will have to be spent on social services

increased taxes on drink will further serve to kill off the pubs and reduce tourism with it

it will also encourage black market scumbags to smuggle in more drink or make dodgy stuff

Stheno

folan wrote: »

has this been shown to be effective elsewhere?

i thought they introduced it in scotland, but to very little success?

rubadub wrote: »

They planned/discussed introducing it in Scotland, they were left like red faced ignorant idiots when they found out the plan was illegal in the EU, after wasting christ knows how much money on it.

Luckily we were once bitten, twice shy, and did not make fools out of ourselves too, oh wait...

Noonan actually mentioned this on the radio when he was discussing the budget last week, and specifically said that the Attorney General had not yet advised if it would or would not be legal.

Days 298

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

In the next referendum they are running they should tag on a vote asking the people do they support the minimum pricing of alcohol.

Democracy? Go on away out of that. We only get a say when they need their Dail membership renewed and even at that they blatantly lie every time.

darkpagandeath

Bog Standard User wrote: »

alcoholic parents will be forced spend more on drink... they will spend less on their children's needs thus the problems these disadvantaged children suffer such as malnutrition and neglect increases.

if this increase in tax on drink is pushed through it will require more tax payer's money to be spend on social services who will then be required to deal with more n more neglected children.

the few pennies the government make from the extra tax will have to be spent on social services

Were are the figures for the apparent massive child neglect due to alcohol consumption ? or is it the same stereo type of jono on the dole outside the bookies everyday drinking going home drinking and so on ? it sounds made up by a anit drinking anti fun lobby group