Crazy allowances or perks

sarumite

Jawgap wrote: »

It's not common in the PS and to claim an overnight without actually staying overnight. This is a fairly serious contravention of the disciplinary code - likewise staying overnight with a relative but claiming to have stayed in a hotel, or sleeping in the car / van (it's happened) is similarly a no-no. You can be asked to produce evidence that you stayed and paid somewhere.

If you claim for a specific expense that never actually existed, its fraud. If you claim a per diem, then you are not claiming for any specific expense item itself. A per diem is effectively unvouched for expenses, at best you must show you were on the city/country for business purposes on the dates you claimed a per diem for. Personally I have only ever claimed been able to claim per diem while working in the PS myself, although as I stated earlier I don't see it as a perk as generally you do the travel on your own time and being away from your family for work isn't always fun.

Jawgap

sarumite wrote: »

If you claim for a specific expense that never actually existed, its fraud. If you claim a per diem, then you are not claiming for any specific expense item itself. A per diem is effectively unvouched for expenses, at best you must show you were on the city/country for business purposes on the dates you claimed a per diem for. Personally I have only ever claimed been able to claim per diem while working in the PS myself, although as I stated earlier I don't see it as a perk as generally you do the travel on your own time and being away from your family for work isn't always fun.

Indeed and it often doesn't even cover the cost of being away, organising accommodation and feeding yourself unless you stay in a pretty crappy B&B and eat in Supermac's.

Our auditors have said an expense must be incurred for the per diem to be claimed - in other words for an overnight you must have paid for some accommodation and - if requested - produce evidence that you paid. If you stayed in a flophouse that's fine, equally if you went for a five star resort hotel that's fine - you're still only going to get the one rate.

We're occasionally asked to produce evidence we paid for our accommodation - but I've yet to be asked to prove I fed myself.

everdead.ie

chopper6 wrote: »

You're not sure and you have pulled this figure out of thin air.

How many businesses "close for lunch"?

From my personal experience, my father as a business owner and having worked in 5 different private companies I have never been paid for lunch it is to me bizarre to pay someone to not work for an hour.

creedp wrote: »

So a 9 - 5 job in the private sector is a 35 hour week and not a 40 hour week as oft claimed

9-5 with an hours lunch is a 35 hour working week I have never said anything to the contrary. I have also never worked a 9-5 working week myself however as I know plenty of public servants haven't either. Christ Junior Doctors put us all to shame.

chopper6 wrote: »

AND despite claims to the contrary is also subject to the same illness,maternity and holiday benefits as the public sector.

This was not always the case and it is generally quite standardised now but it can still be dependant on your employer the likes of Google and Facebook for instance would provide much better benefits than the public sector and the likes of a newsagents or butchers would probably provide much worse

Gumbo

Maura74 wrote: »

In UK the public sector wages and expenses are on councils website together with any spend over £500 pounds, (I feel that every penny should be accounted for and should be published. Hopefully councils will comply soon due to it been public money therefore every penny should be account for. The only problem they have not got around to itemising all their spending as it is all lumped in the same pot). They have got around to making wards in the borough why not published what is spent in each ward.

Councils have staff idea schemes here too.
Dublin City Council publish their budget report each year.

Maura74 wrote: »

public that pays their salaries.

Seriousy, not this crap again :rolleyes:

Maura74 wrote: »

Not sure if it is like this in Ireland.

Have you checked?

creedp

everdead.ie wrote: »

9-5 with an hours lunch is a 35 hour working week I have never said anything to the contrary. I have also never worked a 9-5 working week myself however as I know plenty of public servants haven't either. Christ Junior Doctors put us all to shame.

No problem with calling a 9 - 5 job a 35 hour working week but lets be consistent for all sectors (not directed at you by the way simply a general comment). There has been a lot of teeth knashing around the PS 35 hr working week without acknowledement that is is a pretty common working week in the private sector also. As you say though, many private sector and PS jobs work in excess of a 35 hour working week.

chopper6

everdead.ie wrote: »

From my personal experience, my father as a business owner and having worked in 5 different private companies I have never been paid for lunch it is to me bizarre to pay someone to not work for an hour.

I've also worked in several private sector companies and you MUST be paid,by law for a 30 minute lunch break.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Gumbo

chopper6 wrote: »

I've also worked in several private sector companies and you MUST be paid,by law for a 30 minute lunch break.

Depends if you are on a salary or hourly rate.
For example, my mam would not get paid for her lunch break in Dunnes, but my brother in his office would consider his lunch paid for because he is on a salary.

donegal11

kceire wrote: »

Depends if you are on a salary or hourly rate.
For example, my mam would not get paid for her lunch break in Dunnes, but my brother in his office would consider his lunch paid for because he is on a salary.

But by that logic everyone on a salary gets paid for lunch?

Godge

creedp wrote: »

No problem with calling a 9 - 5 job a 35 hour working week but lets be consistent for all sectors (not directed at you by the way simply a general comment). There has been a lot of teeth knashing around the PS 35 hr working week without acknowledement that is is a pretty common working week in the private sector also. As you say though, many private sector and PS jobs work in excess of a 35 hour working week.

This is the point. There have been many people on these threads for many a year claiming that if they work a 40-hour week Monday to Friday 9-5. why can't the public service work one too.

The reality is that there has been little difference in the hours actually worked because those claims of 40 hours include lunch breaks (do the maths yourself) while the 35 hours worked do not.

Agreed, many work more than 35 hours or 40.

Godge

Maura74 wrote: »

In UK the public sector wages and expenses are on councils website together with any spend over £500 pounds, (I feel that every penny should be accounted for and should be published. Hopefully councils will comply soon due to it been public money therefore every penny should be account for. The only problem they have not got around to itemising all their spending as it is all lumped in the same pot). They have got around to making wards in the borough why not published what is spent in each ward.

Also now some UK councils they have a website for suggestions from their employees ie public that pays their salaries.

Not sure if it is like this in Ireland.

I did see staff expenses published on one of the Departmental websites a few years ago, not sure if they still do it - possibly dropped because of cutbacks. I have seen Ministerial expenses published more recently.



http://www.dttas.ie/about-us/2013/travel-expenses-minister-varadkar

Edit: Here are Leo's expenses

Godge

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I take it then we are all agreed that someone in the private sector who works 9-5 Monday to Friday is not working 40 hours and is comparable to a public servant on 35-37 hours depending on the length of lunchbreak taken by the private sector employee?

DUBACC

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

In my kids' primary school, the assistant principal has only worked two in the last six years. Off on maternity leave, on full pay (teachers are treated differently to everyone else I believe), with all her allowances still being paid.

Sorry i have to pull you up on this - teachers are not treated much different at all. My wife is a teacher and she got the standard 26 paid leave (similar to my sister in law who works in private sector). Any extra leave is unpaid.

chopper6

donegal11 wrote: »

But by that logic everyone on a salary gets paid for lunch?

Yes.

chopper6

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

In my kids' primary school, the assistant principal has only worked two in the last six years. Off on maternity leave, on full pay (teachers are treated differently to everyone else I believe),.

So she's had at least 4 children almost back to back in six years?

And she's been paid FULL PAY for four years on maternity leave?

Nonsense.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

with all her allowances still being paid.

Which allowances is that and how are you privvy to the private life and pay of the "assitant principle in your kids' primary school"?

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

(teachers are treated differently to everyone else I believe)

What entitles you to this "belief"?

If you have no facts to back up your assertations then your "belief" isnt a fact.


You're posting nonsense to stir up trouble.

Gumbo

donegal11 wrote: »

But by that logic everyone on a salary gets paid for lunch?

Yes. It's just a matter of speech. Most people on salaries say I get paid for lunch but technically they probably don't.

It's just a figure of speech as I said.

skafish

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You are right here. The organization of working time act, 2007, article 12 states:
—(1) An employer shall not require an employee to work for a period of more than 4 hours and 30 minutes without allowing him or her a break of at least 15 minutes.

(2) An employer shall not require an employee to work for a period of more than 6 hours without allowing him or her a break of at least 30 minutes; such a break may include the break referred to in subsection (1).

(3) The Minister may by regulations provide, as respects a specified class or classes of employee, that the minimum duration of the break to be allowed to such an employee under subsection (2) shall be more than 30 minutes (but not more than 1 hour).

(4) A break allowed to an employee at the end of the working day shall not be regarded as satisfying the requirement contained in subsection (1) or (2).

Godge

skafish wrote: »

You are right here. The organization of working time act, 2007, article 12 states:
—(1) An employer shall not require an employee to work for a period of more than 4 hours and 30 minutes without allowing him or her a break of at least 15 minutes.

(2) An employer shall not require an employee to work for a period of more than 6 hours without allowing him or her a break of at least 30 minutes; such a break may include the break referred to in subsection (1).

(3) The Minister may by regulations provide, as respects a specified class or classes of employee, that the minimum duration of the break to be allowed to such an employee under subsection (2) shall be more than 30 minutes (but not more than 1 hour).

(4) A break allowed to an employee at the end of the working day shall not be regarded as satisfying the requirement contained in subsection (1) or (2).

nobody disputes that, and it is relevant to those paid on an hourly basis.

However, nobody has disputed my assertion that private sector employees on this forum and elsewhere claim a 40-hour week for working 9-5 Monday to Friday which includes lunch breaks whereas the public sector measure for the same amount of time working is 35 hours.

Gloomtastic!

chopper6 wrote: »

So she's had at least 4 children almost back to back in six years?

And she's been paid FULL PAY for four years on maternity leave?

Nonsense.






Which allowances is that and how are you privvy to the private life and pay of the "assitant principle in your kids' primary school"?





What entitles you to this "belief"?

If you have no facts to back up your assertations then your "belief" isnt a fact.


You're posting nonsense to stir up trouble.

Last baby born 02/13. Still no sign of her back in school yet 8 months later. Parents' rep on the Board of Management confirms she is still getting paid.

Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger! :rolleyes:

sarumite

Godge wrote: »

However, nobody has disputed my assertion that private sector employees on this forum and elsewhere claim a 40-hour week for working 9-5 Monday to Friday which includes lunch breaks whereas the public sector measure for the same amount of time working is 35 hours.

I can't dispute it since I haven't personally seen that claim being made on this forum. I have seen people saying the straight up 9-5 with a 1 hour lunch break is becoming rarer and rarer in the private sector (and more recently has become the case in the PS), though I haven't seen anyone claim working 9-5 with a 1 hour break is anything other than a 35 hour week.

srsly78

Godge wrote: »

nobody disputes that, and it is relevant to those paid on an hourly basis.

However, nobody has disputed my assertion that private sector employees on this forum and elsewhere claim a 40-hour week for working 9-5 Monday to Friday which includes lunch breaks whereas the public sector measure for the same amount of time working is 35 hours.

Sure. The thing is hardly anyone I know works 9-5 in the private sector. For me it has pretty much always been 9-6. That means 8 hours of work, and 1 hour unpaid for lunch = 40 hour week. Also common is 9-5:30 for a 37.5 hour week.

Riskymove

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Last baby born 02/13. Still no sign of her back in school yet 8 months later. Parents' rep on the Board of Management confirms she is still getting paid.

Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger! :rolleyes:

I believe the summer months are not counted for maternity leave purposes? could that be right?

RobbieTheRobber

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Last baby born 02/13. Still no sign of her back in school yet 8 months later. Parents' rep on the Board of Management confirms she is still getting paid.

Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger! :rolleyes:

Maternity leave can comprise both paid (26 weeks) and unpaid(16 weeks).
The protection of employment during Maternity leave both paid and unpaid periods is extended to all from 2007.
More information here http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/maternity_leave.html

There are very clear circulars on the matter of maternity leave for teachers(available to the public) so I very much doubt that your story is true.
http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0009_2013.pdf

sarumite

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

There are very clear circulars on the matter of maternity leave for teachers(available to the public) so I very much doubt that your story is true.
http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0009_2013.pdf

Actually it could. My sister was out from work for almost 9 months as her maternity leave was broken by the summer holidays as well as the mid term break when she was on annual leave. Maternity entitlements do not affect your annual leave entitlements.

Gumbo

srsly78 wrote: »

Sure. The thing is hardly anyone I know works 9-5 in the private sector. For me it has pretty much always been 9-6. That means 8 hours of work, and 1 hour unpaid for lunch = 40 hour week. Also common is 9-5:30 for a 37.5 hour week.

I dont know many offices that are open until 6pm in the City, most are 5pm and at the max, 5.30pm.

My private sector days days were spent Mon-Thurs 9am-5.30pm, but Fridays were 9am-2pm

RobbieTheRobber

sarumite wrote: »

Actually it could. My sister was out from work for almost 9 months as her maternity leave was broken by the summer holidays as well as the mid term break when she was on annual leave. Maternity entitlements do not affect your annual leave entitlements.

While I was quoting the last post only I was replying to the posters entire story of four years paid maternity leave.

In your sisters case this is not a period of nine months paid maternity leave, which if you read the comments made by the poster i replied to you will see is what they are claiming.

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

In my kids' primary school, the assistant principal has only worked two in the last six years. Off on maternity leave, on full pay (teachers are treated differently to everyone else I believe), with all her allowances still being paid.

sarumite

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Thanks for your helpful input as always.

Your welcome

Godge

sarumite wrote: »

Actually it could. My sister was out from work for almost 9 months as her maternity leave was broken by the summer holidays as well as the mid term break when she was on annual leave. Maternity entitlements do not affect your annual leave entitlements.

Godge wrote: »

Instead of making allegations about benefits accruing to teachers, maybe you could provide a link to back this up.

AFAIK, any perks from linking the holidays to dates of birth were removed earlier this year.

http://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0009_2013.pdf

I cleared this up pages ago. The perk was removed earlier this year.

So yes, sarumite's sister in the past got nine months and that was allowed then.

Gloomtastic's teacher is a questionable example, doesn't fit with the new circular.

Either way, the perk is gone, just like so many other false examples on this thread like the half hour to cash a cheque.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

gazzer

kceire wrote: »

I dont know many offices that are open until 6pm in the City, most are 5pm and at the max, 5.30pm.

My private sector days days were spent Mon-Thurs 9am-5.30pm, but Fridays were 9am-2pm

All Civil Service offices would be open until 7pm at least as that is the cut off time for flexi working. When I worked in a government department in Dublin I would start at 9.30 and finish at 6. Some days I would work until 7pm depending on the nature of the work.

Gumbo

gazzer wrote: »

All Civil Service offices would be open until 7pm at least as that is the cut off time for flexi working. When I worked in a government department in Dublin I would start at 9.30 and finish at 6. Some days I would work until 7pm depending on the nature of the work.

Any examples of that?

Passport office?
Motor Tax Office?

Im not on about over time, we all have to do that when required, but the typical day opening hours. I can guarantee you, a member of the public cannot stroll up to a PS office at 6.30pm and expect it to be open, and rightly so in my opinion.

sarumite

kceire wrote: »

Any examples of that?

Passport office?
Motor Tax Office?

Im not on about over time, we all have to do that when required, but the typical day opening hours. I can guarantee you, a member of the public cannot stroll up to a PS office at 6.30pm and expect it to be open, and rightly so in my opinion.

So having minimal experience of working in a pure customer focused situation beyond my time in retail during college, I would say there can be a difference between office hours and opening hours. The business might be closed to public, although its staff will continue to work beyond that. Could the same be happening in the PS?

mathepac

everdead.ie wrote: »

... I have never been paid for lunch it is to me bizarre to pay someone to not work for an hour. ...

For nurses and certain other paramedics it is custom and practice that their "on-duty hours" include their meal-breaks.

bobbysands81

woodoo wrote: »

The great scandal in the public service currently is travel and subsistence.

I agree.

As someone who works in the public service and is required to travel a lot in my job it costs me thousands of euro to do so.

If I'm travelling for a meeting, and there is public transport to that area, then I am expected to get public transport. Not a bad idea but it can take 3 or 4 times the time to use public transport thus incurring a huge loss in productivity which impacts by employer and means I fall miles behind with work. Due to my line of work there is very little work I can do on a public train or bus.

A way around this is that I can drive to my location but I get a notional payment that covers the costs of public transport. The payment comes nowhere near to covering petrol never mind cost of car, insurance, tax, tolls, etc...

On many occasions I do get mileage but this doesn't come anywhere close to covering the cost of keeping a car on the road.

The cost of an 'overnight' stay is adequately provided for but you are not compensated for time worked after 5:45 in the evening so the few euro you do get comes nowhere near compensating for a night away from young family.

Gumbo

sarumite wrote: »

So having minimal experience of working in a pure customer focused situation beyond my time in retail during college, I would say there can be a difference between office hours and opening hours. The business might be closed to public, although its staff will continue to work beyond that. Could the same be happening in the PS?

Ohh i totally agree, i worked in Retail for many years, from my Junior Cert right to and during my first year in College.

A couple of examples of that is the Motor Tax Office, people come on here (not just this forum, motors too) complaining that the motor tax offices closes at 4pm, but it doesnt, it is dealing with the que that formed in the build up to 4pm, they just stop new customers from entering after 4pm, same goes for before 10am.

This is also true for the banks, they dont open until 10am, but the staff are in there from 9am getting the place ready.

The public counters in some local authorities close at 4.30pm, but the remaining 30 mins is spent closing off files registered, or requested during that day.

bobbysands81

kceire wrote: »

Any examples of that?

Passport office?
Motor Tax Office?

Im not on about over time, we all have to do that when required, but the typical day opening hours. I can guarantee you, a member of the public cannot stroll up to a PS office at 6.30pm and expect it to be open, and rightly so in my opinion.

True the public can't but generally every Department has staff working until 7pm at the earliest (this is not accounting for folk on OT).

woodoo

srsly78 wrote: »

Sure. The thing is hardly anyone I know works 9-5 in the private sector. For me it has pretty much always been 9-6. That means 8 hours of work, and 1 hour unpaid for lunch = 40 hour week. Also common is 9-5:30 for a 37.5 hour week.

9 to 6 is factory hours. Most private sector office jobs i know are 9 to 5 with an hour for lunch (which is a 35 hr week). The public service are now doing a 37 hour week. I would be hoping that when things get back to normality in the country, that the unions start pushing to get back to the 35 hour week as a priority.

Idbatterim

I just came across this gem!

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/government-accused-of-telling-us-to-shop-around-for-cheaper-funeral-29702238.html

Yesterday, Social Welfare Minister Joan Burton said there were other alternatives to the bereavement grant that could be used by families when a loved one dies.

"If one partner of a pensioner couple dies, their spouse continues to get the social welfare payment of the deceased spouse for six months. That is worth roughly €1,200 to €1,400."

Gumbo

Idbatterim wrote: »

I just came across this gem!

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/government-accused-of-telling-us-to-shop-around-for-cheaper-funeral-29702238.html

How is this a perk/allowance to an employee?

It's a social benefit.

Idbatterim

I was going on this Kceire

After hearing about the back to school clothing allowance for 18yo - 22yo I am curious what other gems are we paying our taxes for?

Gumbo

Idbatterim wrote: »

I was going on this Kceire

Agh right, I see where your coming from. But I think the OP was just using that as an example, but was more targeting employment perks based on his second paragraph in the same post you quoted.

JUILLIARD

Living alone allowance, an Extra payment for people on welfare who live alone. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/living_alone_allowance.html . Just as crazy as school uniform grants for 22 year olds and communion and debs grants.

tomdempsey200

thanks for that

hopefully i'm eligible

D1976

You're first post on boards.ie for that it's €7.70 a week who cares. I'd be more annoyed by this

http://www.thejournal.ie/tds-expenses-2012-779113-Feb2013/

Independent TD for Kerry South, Michael Healy-Rae, is the next highest claimant at €62,806 – though again, he is the only TD who lives between 330km and 360km from Leinster House.

Taxburden carrier

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

thanks for that

hopefully i'm eligible

Looks like the deficit will be narrowed soon :rolleyes:

Gumbo

Taxburden carrier wrote: »

Looks like the deficit will be narrowed soon :rolleyes:

Here's your :rolleyes: back, you seemed to have dropped it in your previous post.

another question

JUILLIARD wrote: »

Living alone allowance, an Extra payment for people on welfare who live alone. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/extra_social_welfare_benefits/living_alone_allowance.html . Just as crazy as school uniform grants for 22 year olds and communion and debs grants.

It's a miserable €7.70 increase for old people over 66 or the disabled under 66. Take your begrudgery elsewhere.

y0ssar1an22

D1976 wrote: »

You're first post on boards.ie for that it's €7.70 a week who cares. I'd be more annoyed by this

http://www.thejournal.ie/tds-expenses-2012-779113-Feb2013/

Independent TD for Kerry South, Michael Healy-Rae, is the next highest claimant at €62,806 – though again, he is the only TD who lives between 330km and 360km from Leinster House.

according to google maps this journey costs roughly e60. so making that journey twice a day for 365 days = (60)(2)(365) = e43800

There is also accommodation to consider, but this is clearly taking advantage of a system that is probably not regulated at all. Are they made hand in receipts I wonder?

gaius c

D1976 wrote: »

You're first post on boards.ie for that it's €7.70 a week who cares. I'd be more annoyed by this

http://www.thejournal.ie/tds-expenses-2012-779113-Feb2013/

Independent TD for Kerry South, Michael Healy-Rae, is the next highest claimant at €62,806 – though again, he is the only TD who lives between 330km and 360km from Leinster House.

A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

As for your "it's €7.70 a week who cares" line of argument, my granddad had a great saying, which was "mind the pennies because the pounds look after themselves". We're bust, completely and utterly bust so all the needless handouts need to be trimmed back.

Grab All Association

If you are 66 years or over and live alone, you will qualify if you are getting one of the following payments

State Pension (Contributory)
State Pension (Non-Contributory)
Widow's, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner's (Contributory) Pension
Widow's/Widower's Pension under the Occupational Injuries Benefit Scheme
Incapacity Supplement

Take it off the non contributory sponging women.