Womens' rugby Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

The Lost Sheep · 03-06-2017 8:41pm

IRELAND WOMEN'S XV 24 JAPAN WOMEN'S XV 22, UCD Bowl
Scorers: Ireland: Tries: Cliodhna Moloney, Paula Fitzpatrick, Hanna Tyrrell, Claire Molloy; Cons: Nora Stapleton, Hannah Tyrrell
Japan: Tries: Saki Minami, Honoka Tsutsumi, Noriko Taniguchi, Mayu Shimizu; Con: Minori Yamamoto
HT: Ireland 12 Japan 10

With 10 minutes remaining in the contest, Ireland trailed 22-12 against an impressive Japanese side, but thanks to the combined try-scoring efforts of Hannah Tyrrell and Claire Molloy, they came out on the right side of the result.
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/39886.php

The Lost Sheep · 07-06-2017 5:58pm

Ireland Women's XV make it two wins out of two in their uncapped trial match series with Japan. Tom Tierney's side triumphed 24-15 at Billings Park in UCD this afternoon.
IRELAND WOMEN'S XV 24 JAPAN WOMEN'S XV 15, Billings Park, UCD
Scorers: Ireland: Tries: Claire Molloy 2, Eimear Considine, Ailsa Hughes; Cons: Nikki Caughey, Nora Stapleton
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/39902.php#.WTgwcdKGPIU

Neil3030 · 10-06-2017 5:45pm

How might one get tickets for the women's RWC in August - specifically the matches in UCD on 17 August? (USA/Eng and Can/NZ)?

The Lost Sheep · 10-06-2017 5:54pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

How might one get tickets for the women's RWC in August - specifically the matches in UCD on 17 August? (USA/Eng and Can/NZ)?

Try either of World Rugby or IRFU sites
https://www.rwcwomens.com/tickets
http://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland2017/

rebel girl 15 · 10-06-2017 6:50pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

How might one get tickets for the women's RWC in August - specifically the matches in UCD on 17 August? (USA/Eng and Can/NZ)?

Sold out afaik on the website - think all the Dublin ones have been sold out for a while now.

Korat · 10-06-2017 6:54pm

Hats off to the ladies. Great rugby and overselling the venues. Over to you IRFU.

rebel girl 15 · 10-06-2017 7:00pm

Korat wrote: »

Hats off to the ladies. Great rugby and overselling the venues. Over to you IRFU.

Given that they are essentially constructing a stadium in UCD for the game, its done really well and they are confident the semi finals and finals will be sold out as well.

I'm a volunteer at it for the three Dublin match days, going to Belfast anyway for the SF and finals, bonus if I get more shifts!

sullivlo · 12-06-2017 2:24pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

How might one get tickets for the women's RWC in August - specifically the matches in UCD on 17 August? (USA/Eng and Can/NZ)?

More tickets released this morning for the sold out games.

connemara man · 14-07-2017 3:20pm

IRFU funding for women's rugby up 25%, will rise by a further €500k after World Cup http://the42.ie/3496159

irishbucsfan · 14-07-2017 4:50pm

connemara man wrote: »

IRFU funding for women's rugby up 25%, will rise by a further €500k after World Cup http://the42.ie/3496159

Funding for women's 7s, Id prefer if they were a bit more open about how the funding is split because they're very different programs

irishbucsfan · 24-07-2017 12:18pm

So today the English have announced something quite similar. They're letting every one of their 15s players go and instead will only contract 7s players. 17 in total (there is overlap, so some 15s players will remain contracted I'm sure). Very similar priorities to the IRFU although the IRFU have kept things very quiet.

Its funny that union employees will tell you about the dangers of money corrupting club rugby while at the same time we're watching them completely disregard women's 15s so that they can jump on command for Olympic money... This massive emphasis on funding 7s is absolutely not good enough and the IRFU and RFU are failing in their duties as far as I'm concerned.

The Lost Sheep · 09-10-2017 10:42pm

The Barbarians are launching a first ever ladies team who will play Munster in Thomond Park in November on the same day as the mens side play Tonga
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/09/barbarians-first-womens-team-debut-ireland?CMP=share_btn_tw

molloyjh · 10-10-2017 7:59am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The Barbarians are launching a first ever ladies team who will play Munster in Thomond Park in November on the same day as the mens side play Tonga
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/09/barbarians-first-womens-team-debut-ireland?CMP=share_btn_tw

Same day isn't great but I suppose the options would be very limited there. Great to see all the same.

sullivlo · 10-10-2017 9:14am

molloyjh wrote: »

Same day isn't great but I suppose the options would be very limited there. Great to see all the same.

I think it's amazing. Will try organise a trip down.

The Lost Sheep · 10-10-2017 6:21pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Same day isn't great but I suppose the options would be very limited there. Great to see all the same.

Same day is best as playing together in double header would give ladies game a better crowd.

Dog Botherer · 10-10-2017 7:58pm

Promo video for anyone who's interested.

https://twitter.com/Barbarian_FC/status/917645635070726145

MJohnston · 10-10-2017 7:59pm

Am I wrong in thinking this is the Munster men's team they're playing?

The Lost Sheep · 10-10-2017 8:22pm

MJohnston wrote:

Am I wrong in thinking this is the Munster men's team they're playing?

completely. It's women's team. It's on same day as babas men's play Ireland

MJohnston · 10-10-2017 8:25pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

completely. It's women's team. It's on same day as babas men's play Ireland

You'll have to excuse me for not knowing, it just refers to "Munster" everywhere, and honestly, I could see a Women's BaaBaas team actually playing some men's teams.

thomond2006 · 17-10-2017 11:17am

To go from hosting a 15s WRWC to this is quite something.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/40719.php#.WeXSlqnTXqC

"This position is being offered on a 6 month contract, on a part-time basis."

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 11:21am

It's because they don't care.

I would suggest that the two gentlemen responsible for the current direction of women's rugby could kindly hop on the next plane back to the place they have originated from, and I believe there's a few chaps up north who might be happy to foot the bill.

molloyjh · 17-10-2017 11:30am

What an absolute farce. That's one big finger up to the women who play the game here.

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 11:47am

connemara man wrote: »

IRFU funding for women's rugby up 25%, will rise by a further €500k after World Cup http://the42.ie/3496159

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Funding for women's 7s, Id prefer if they were a bit more open about how the funding is split because they're very different programs

Remember when they tried to pretend they were going to increase funding to "women's rugby"? They've been cutting for years now. They don't care.

connemara man · 17-10-2017 11:47am

Complete joke.

thomond2006 · 17-10-2017 11:51am

While I tend to shy away from comments like "Women should be running the women's game", you have to wonder if the current old boys club is fit for purpose. Tom Tierney being moved to u20s after a disastrous result at WRWC screams jobs for the boys.

I say this as someone who doesn't have an interest in women's rugby but who doesn't want to see hard work at grassroots be undermined with codology at the top.

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 12:22pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

While I tend to shy away from comments like "Women should be running the women's game", you have to wonder if the current old boys club is fit for purpose. Tom Tierney being moved to u20s after a disastrous result at WRWC screams jobs for the boys.

I say this as someone who doesn't have an interest in women's rugby but who doesn't want to see hard work at grassroots be undermined with codology at the top.

I don't think its the old boys as such. I think it's that they have some particularly ruthless individuals in there who have been brought in from the outside with a very strongly results-oriented view of the world. And because women's XVs doesn't make money they just don't care about it.

awec · 17-10-2017 12:59pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's because they don't care.

I would suggest that the two gentlemen responsible for the current direction of women's rugby could kindly hop on the next plane back to the place they have originated from, and I believe there's a few chaps up north who might be happy to foot the bill.

Is this under his Lordships remit?

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 1:01pm

awec wrote: »

Is this under his Lordships remit?

His Lordship, but also more specifically another chap by the name of Anthony Eddie. They are partners in crime.

awec · 17-10-2017 1:26pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

His Lordship, but also more specifically another chap by the name of Anthony Eddie. They are partners in crime.

I'd near row him back to Australia myself.

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 6:47pm

https://twitter.com/MichaelC_RTE/status/920342691401158656

The Lost Sheep · 17-10-2017 9:02pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

While I tend to shy away from comments like "Women should be running the women's game", you have to wonder if the current old boys club is fit for purpose. Tom Tierney being moved to u20s after a disastrous result at WRWC screams jobs for the boys.

I say this as someone who doesn't have an interest in women's rugby but who doesn't want to see hard work at grassroots be undermined with codology at the top.

Problem with changing the "current old boys club" is how to do it. You need someone at top to get a shotgun to the lot for real change to occur and that wont happen.
For womens rugby to really improve their needs to be much better work at lower levels. Plenty work done in areas with primary schools and tag rugby but if a club locally doesnt have girls rugby teams its very hard to start one as the development officers dont really attend many girls schools to help attract girls to the sport.
Work at grassroots for womens rugby could be much better. The club ladder system changed a while back where it used to be top division AIL with regional divisions below. Now there is only one all ireland division with provincial leagues below not directly linked to AIL as much as before.

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 9:17pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Problem with changing the "current old boys club" is how to do it. You need someone at top to get a shotgun to the lot for real change to occur and that wont happen.
For womens rugby to really improve their needs to be much better work at lower levels. Plenty work done in areas with primary schools and tag rugby but if a club locally doesnt have girls rugby teams its very hard to start one as the development officers dont really attend many girls schools to help attract girls to the sport.
Work at grassroots for womens rugby could be much better. The club ladder system changed a while back where it used to be top division AIL with regional divisions below. Now there is only one all ireland division with provincial leagues below not directly linked to AIL as much as before.

This is all stuff that should be happening. And the clubs are there ready and waiting for some direction or investment which is not coming (despite recent bizarre claims that it is). But also stuff that is completely undermined by slashing the budget of the national team.

sullivlo · 17-10-2017 9:32pm

As someone who has been involved in “grass roots” women’s rugby, I’m bitterly disappointed.

Years and years ago, women’s rugby was run by a body called the Irish women’s rugby football union, and I sat on the committee. I also sat on the colleges version and organised a blitz day for all of the universities to send teams/players - just to get a sense of where people who were interested in playing were. I helped set up teams in Leinster and Munster. I played for years. I gave up because of an injury, but I’m still a fan. I still attend AIL games, interpros and the internationals. I have played with, and against, a chunk of the current internationals, and I would consider several of them to be very good friends.

The IRFU took over the running of the women’s game in order to remove some of the ambiguity between colleges and clubs - there were essentially two bodies organising games and there was nobody talking to anyone. The assumption at the time was that adequate resources would be provided, and in time they were. I don’t mean money, but infrastructure. Coaching staff. A back room set up. Gear. A kit. Travel expenses covered. The basics.

When Goose stepped back and the 7’s program started and there was a paid coach for the women’s 15’s, and Ireland were announced as hosts for the WRWC, and there was a buzz about women’s rugby in Ireland... the games were streamed on TV. They were attended, not in thousands, but decent crowds. The autumn internationals took place.

I felt we took a turn.

Then... well the rest is history.

Bitterly disappointed. Not just for the girls who put themselves on the line to play for their country, but for the next generation of players. The mascots from the last World Cup. The 10 year old girls who have Briggs as their favourite player. The 14 year old players in clubs across the country who want to continue playing.

This is a massive kick in the teeth for anyone who is in any way involved in women’s sport in Ireland.

The Lost Sheep · 17-10-2017 9:40pm

sullivlo wrote: »

As someone who has been involved in “grass roots” women’s rugby, I’m bitterly disappointed.

Years and years ago, women’s rugby was run by a body called the Irish women’s rugby football union, and I sat on the committee. I also sat on the colleges version and organised a blitz day for all of the universities to send teams/players - just to get a sense of where people who were interested in playing were. I helped set up teams in Leinster and Munster. I played for years. I gave up because of an injury, but I’m still a fan. I still attend AIL games, interpros and the internationals. I have played with, and against, a chunk of the current internationals, and I would consider several of them to be very good friends.

The IRFU took over the running of the women’s game in order to remove some of the ambiguity between colleges and clubs - there were essentially two bodies organising games and there was nobody talking to anyone. The assumption at the time was that adequate resources would be provided, and in time they were. I don’t mean money, but infrastructure. Coaching staff. A back room set up. Gear. A kit. Travel expenses covered. The basics.

When Goose stepped back and the 7’s program started and there was a paid coach for the women’s 15’s, and Ireland were announced as hosts for the WRWC, and there was a buzz about women’s rugby in Ireland... the games were streamed on TV. They were attended, not in thousands, but decent crowds. The autumn internationals took place.

I felt we took a turn.

Then... well the rest is history.

Bitterly disappointed. Not just for the girls who put themselves on the line to play for their country, but for the next generation of players. The mascots from the last World Cup. The 10 year old girls who have Briggs as their favourite player. The 14 year old players in clubs across the country who want to continue playing.

This is a massive kick in the teeth for anyone who is in any way involved in women’s sport in Ireland.

Ive family whove played quite a bit of ladies rugby here and abroad. Ive reffed games as well. We do need much more girls playing and this decision to change coach from full time to part time necessarily wont change that
What do you want IRFU to do? Yes coaching at top level needs a look and the work put in to support team must improve a hell of a lot but we need much better work from the clubs and development staff to get more girls playing.

thomond2006 · 17-10-2017 9:46pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Ive family whove played quite a bit of ladies rugby here and abroad. Ive reffed games as well. We do need much more girls playing and this decision to change coach from full time to part time necessarily wont change that
What do you want IRFU to do? Yes coaching at top level needs a look and the work put in to support team must improve a hell of a lot but we need much better work from the clubs and development staff to get more girls playing.

Not hire a useless head coach? That's what will happen with a contract offer like that.
A successful team at the top level of the game is a great way to encourage participation.

sullivlo · 17-10-2017 9:56pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Ive family whove played quite a bit of ladies rugby here and abroad. Ive reffed games as well. We do need much more girls playing and this decision to change coach from full time to part time necessarily wont change that
What do you want IRFU to do? Yes coaching at top level needs a look and the work put in to support team must improve a hell of a lot but we need much better work from the clubs and development staff to get more girls playing.

Take it seriously, for one.

I don’t have the figures off the top of my head for how many players there are registered in Ireland for any sport.

But look at the GAA. How many people attended the ladies final? 38k or something? How many clubs have ladies teams? I can’t answer that, it’s a hypothetical thing. My point is that the GAA support the ladies game from the ground up. They provide money to clubs to give them a chance to grow teams. They provide infrastructure. They give the game a platform. They open up Croke park for big games.

The IRFU make it difficult to register a women’s team in Ireland. They don’t incentivise women to play the sport. It’s not many years ago that u13 games were given precedence over adult AIL women’s games in terms of which pitch they played on and in terms of training times, access to clubs facilities, and resources within the club.

The IRFU periodically provide lip service to clubs and give them grants for having a women’s team - in the form of paying for a bus to bring players to Dublin for a game.

The IRFU provide a grant to clubs who produce male international players. No such thing exists for clubs that produce women international players.

The IRFU are not short of money.

For the nation to take women’s rugby seriously it needs to come from the top. 18k people attended the final in Kingspan. A final in which Ireland were not playing. I was there. The atmosphere was incredible. People wanted to go. There was an audience for it.

That was the time to push on. To provide more funding. To take an interest in the international team. Instead we get this.

There was a huge increase in players after Ireland beat NZ in 2015 because it was publicised. It had the support of the nation. The WRWC was an ideal time to invest and encourage players. Instead they turn the pinnacle of coaching in the women’s game into a part time job, with a 6 month contract? Who will apply for that?

If I was only starting to play now I don’t think I’d want to, seeing how women are treated by the organisers. And I don’t say that lightly.

sullivlo · 17-10-2017 9:59pm

My step cousins step sister is 11. She plays rugby. She’s quite good at it. The last time I saw her I asked her who her favourite player is. I was expecting Sexton as the answer (this kid likes to kick the ball). Instead she said Niamh Briggs. When I asked her second favourite? Sophie Spence.

They’re her heros. The IRFU need to listen to the future players.

molloyjh · 17-10-2017 10:02pm

Yeah, while this sort of thing sends out a terrible message to some of us it doesn’t necessarily directly impact young people’s interest levels in playing. What will is a reduction in quality of the national team followed by reduced exposure due to reduced interest levels. Without girls looking to be the next Niamh Briggs or Sophie Spence the women’s game will struggle from the bottom up.

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 10:04pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

We do need much more girls playing and this decision to change coach from full time to part time necessarily wont change that

Tell that to the stars who will not be playing for their country again due to this joke of a decision.

The Lost Sheep · 17-10-2017 10:09pm

sullivlo wrote: »

Take it seriously, for one.

I don’t have the figures off the top of my head for how many players there are registered in Ireland for any sport.

But look at the GAA. How many people attended the ladies final? 38k or something? How many clubs have ladies teams? I can’t answer that, it’s a hypothetical thing. My point is that the GAA support the ladies game from the ground up. They provide money to clubs to give them a chance to grow teams. They provide infrastructure. They give the game a platform. They open up Croke park for big games.

The IRFU make it difficult to register a women’s team in Ireland. They don’t incentivise women to play the sport. It’s not many years ago that u13 games were given precedence over adult AIL women’s games in terms of which pitch they played on and in terms of training times, access to clubs facilities, and resources within the club.

The IRFU periodically provide lip service to clubs and give them grants for having a women’s team - in the form of paying for a bus to bring players to Dublin for a game.

The IRFU provide a grant to clubs who produce male international players. No such thing exists for clubs that produce women international players.

The IRFU are not short of money.

For the nation to take women’s rugby seriously it needs to come from the top. 18k people attended the final in Kingspan. A final in which Ireland were not playing. I was there. The atmosphere was incredible. People wanted to go. There was an audience for it.

That was the time to push on. To provide more funding. To take an interest in the international team. Instead we get this.

There was a huge increase in players after Ireland beat NZ in 2015 because it was publicised. It had the support of the nation. The WRWC was an ideal time to invest and encourage players. Instead they turn the pinnacle of coaching in the women’s game into a part time job, with a 6 month contract? Who will apply for that?

If I was only starting to play now I don’t think I’d want to, seeing how women are treated by the organisers. And I don’t say that lightly.

The IRFU do support the ladies game but for clubs to set up womens teams it needs to be led by people within the clubs. The IRFU and their development officers like womens rugby development officer for Connacht Wendy Hickey, Munster Amanda Greensmith etc can help hugely as well the local club and community officers

And the coach for and in lead up to the womens world cup was full time. Just because it isnt full time doesnt mean people wont apply.

Did the IRFU not move the ladies games from Ashbourne to Donnybrook. That was an improvement(though i think there is far too many internationals played in Dublin but thats another argument for another thread) was it not?
The IRFU provide money for clubs to help womens game. Im involved in my local club and i see it at meetings etc that they do...
An under 13 game being prioritsed over a womens AIL game isnt an issue within the IRFU that is internal club issues and by and large issues with access to club facilities, training times etc cant be put on the IRFU as they are all issues that are the jurisdiction of a club committee and the people running and managing a club.
It isnt any where near as simple as just provide more funding. The volunteer base and playing base needs to improve and widen in the ladies game and that wont come about simply with increased funding. How people are attracted to the sport needs to improve

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 10:10pm

sullivlo wrote: »

If I was only starting to play now I don’t think I’d want to, seeing how women are treated by the organisers. And I don’t say that lightly.

I'm sure you know as well as I do that this doesn't even apply to those only starting.

The mismanagement of this team has massively damaged the efforts of those at lower levels to grow the game. Because girls are learning through their clubs how terribly things are being managed and its, understandably, undermining their passion to drive through to elite level. When Goose was there the opposite was happening, people were being pulled into the sport by that passion. It's infuriating to see the momentum that was built during those years squandered.

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 10:18pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The IRFU do support the ladies game but for clubs to set up womens teams it needs to be led by people within the clubs.

This is true. However the IRFU should be supporting this far more than they are (which is barely).

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

And the coach for and in lead up to the womens world cup was full time. Just because it isnt full time doesnt mean people wont apply.

I think most people who know what went on will find it very hard to believe the coach was actually full time. The person in that job was producing far less than part time coaches at most amateur clubs. Far less than Goose and Greg McWilliams did when they were part time.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Did the IRFU not move the ladies games from Ashbourne to Donnybrook. That was an improvement(though i think there is far too many internationals played in Dublin but thats another argument for another thread) was it not?

A decision that was not driven by the IRFU. They don't get credit there. At the same time they pulled some funding from girls travelling in the country for camps. So really find it hard to give them any credit for that, other than cost-cutting.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The IRFU provide money for clubs to help womens game. Im involved in my local club and i see it at meetings etc that they do...

Very little developmental work or leadership being given to clubs.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

An under 13 game being prioritsed over a womens AIL game isnt an issue within the IRFU that is internal club issues and by and large issues with access to club facilities, training times etc cant be put on the IRFU as they are all issues that are the jurisdiction of a club committee and the people running and managing a club.

Yes it is a club problem. The IRFU can get involved with this. In fact, not doing so is a massive dereliction of their duties.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It isnt any where near as simple as just provide more funding. The volunteer base and playing base needs to improve and widen in the ladies game and that wont come about simply with increased funding. How people are attracted to the sport needs to improve

No. It's not as simple as providing more funding.

Do you know what is simple though? Don't tell everyone you are going to provide more funding, and then provide less. Don't tell the world you're increasing funding while the girls playing for your national team feel like they are getting less support than ever. Don't tell everyone that the way forward is to invest in club rugby, and then do nothing. Don't tell everyone that a full time head coach is necessary to help us achieve our goals and then pull it away a couple of years later. Or to put it even simpler, do SOMETHING other than pushing for international 7s success.

It has been a complete disaster during this world cup cycle. The IRFU need a massive wake-up call.

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 10:25pm

Anyways, the question still stands. On the run-in to the WRWC we were told an extra 500k was going to women's rugby. Where is it?

The Lost Sheep · 17-10-2017 10:31pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is true. However the IRFU should be supporting this far more than they are (which is barely).

The IRFU do support them but i speak from experience of family playing ladies rugby and in a new team. My club couldnt field. We had development officer from branch to help but it was no good. They eventually joined with another club and fielded a joint team. This needs to happen more and has to be club led.

Yes it is a club problem. The IRFU can get involved with this. In fact, not doing so is a massive dereliction of their duties.

What exactly do you expect the IRFU to do in cases like this? How do you want them to get involved with this? Take example of under 13 game prioritised over womens AIL? What do you want IRFU and who in IRFU do you expect to be getting involved for a change here?

No. It's not as simple as providing more funding.

Do you know what is simple though? Don't tell everyone you are going to provide more funding, and then provide less. Don't tell the world you're increasing funding while the girls playing for your national team feel like they are getting less support than ever. Don't tell everyone that the way forward is to invest in club rugby, and then do nothing. Don't tell everyone that a full time head coach is necessary to help us achieve our goals and then pull it away a couple of years later. Or to put it even simpler, do SOMETHING other than pushing for international 7s success.

It has been a complete disaster during this world cup cycle. The IRFU need a massive wake-up call.

Yes the push towards 7s has been to the detriment of the 15s game when they should be used hand in hand and the top guys in IRFU need to be seriously criticised about this. The level of support womens rugby has got has improved but how the resources are used has been terrible recently and must change. Yes the drive for international 7s success has been far too high in importance over the more established 15s game and the IRFU do need a wake up call here. But i still think clubs need to be much better at doing things internally as plenty of issues within a lot of clubs and the womens game can be improved by the clubs without anything to do with the provincial branches or IRFU staff from Lansdowne road.

sullivlo · 17-10-2017 10:45pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The IRFU do support them but i speak from experience of family playing ladies rugby and in a new team. My club couldnt field. We had development officer from branch to help but it was no good. They eventually joined with another club and fielded a joint team. This needs to happen more and has to be club led.

What exactly do you expect the IRFU to do in cases like this? How do you want them to get involved with this? Take example of under 13 game prioritised over womens AIL? What do you want IRFU and who in IRFU do you expect to be getting involved for a change here?

Yes the push towards 7s has been to the detriment of the 15s game when they should be used hand in hand and the top guys in IRFU need to be seriously criticised about this. The level of support womens rugby has got has improved but how the resources are used has been terrible recently and must change. Yes the drive for international 7s success has been far too high in importance over the more established 15s game and the IRFU do need a wake up call here. But i still think clubs need to be much better at doing things internally as plenty of issues within a lot of clubs and the womens game can be improved by the clubs without anything to do with the provincial branches or IRFU staff from Lansdowne road.

Like what? Not being smart. Genuinely curious.

I helped set up a team in Cork with the then Munster development officer (Gemma) who has moved on to pastures new. Amanda took over from her and Amanda is doing a fantastic job. We had full backing from the club to set up the women’s section. The IRFU gave a grant to the club for having a women’s team. I can’t remember the exact amount of money. The team grew and progressed well. I sat on the committee of the club as the women’s rep. We sourced our own sponsors for jerseys and whatnot. The club were very supportive of the team.

We were competing with the GAA for players though. And their resources are better. There’s way more funding available to the ladies GAA.

Simple example. The IRFU run the league. Great. They take over the responsibility for providing referees etc. Great! Until you organise games and the IRFU haven’t sourced a referee for your game and you only find out when the referee doesn’t show. Yet the juniors in the club have a ref, also organised by the IRFU. They were paying refs for the junior games, but not for Division 2 womens games. That doesn’t come from the clubs.

If the profile of the women’s game was raised by the IRFU, the jobs of the clubs would be easier. No joke, 6 of my friends took up rugby after the win over NZ. Because it was popular and publicised.

sullivlo · 17-10-2017 10:47pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The IRFU do support the ladies game but for clubs to set up womens teams it needs to be led by people within the clubs. The IRFU and their development officers like womens rugby development officer for Connacht Wendy Hickey, Munster Amanda Greensmith etc can help hugely as well the local club and community officers

And the coach for and in lead up to the womens world cup was full time. Just because it isnt full time doesnt mean people wont apply.

Did the IRFU not move the ladies games from Ashbourne to Donnybrook. That was an improvement(though i think there is far too many internationals played in Dublin but thats another argument for another thread) was it not?
The IRFU provide money for clubs to help womens game. Im involved in my local club and i see it at meetings etc that they do...
An under 13 game being prioritsed over a womens AIL game isnt an issue within the IRFU that is internal club issues and by and large issues with access to club facilities, training times etc cant be put on the IRFU as they are all issues that are the jurisdiction of a club committee and the people running and managing a club.
It isnt any where near as simple as just provide more funding. The volunteer base and playing base needs to improve and widen in the ladies game and that wont come about simply with increased funding. How people are attracted to the sport needs to improve

It’s a 6 month contract. Nobody wants a 6 month contract. Particularly when there is such discontent amongst the players you’ll be coaching.

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 10:51pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The IRFU do support them but i speak from experience of family playing ladies rugby and in a new team. My club couldnt field. We had development officer from branch to help but it was no good. They eventually joined with another club and fielded a joint team. This needs to happen more and has to be club led.

I mean you keep saying you're speaking from experience, but I'm sure you realise that having family members involved isn't quite the same level of experience as others around here...

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What exactly do you expect the IRFU to do in cases like this? How do you want them to get involved with this? Take example of under 13 game prioritised over womens AIL? What do you want IRFU and who in IRFU do you expect to be getting involved for a change here?

There are multiple things the IRFU can do in a situation like this. They can go take a communications approach, by starting a campaign to raise awareness. They can take a functional approach, by discussing it directly with leadership of clubs who are behaving in this way, or they can take a developmental approach and work with the coaches affected directly and ensure they feel like they have the tools to advance women's rugby at their club. All of that is squarely in their remit.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But i still think clubs need to be much better at doing things internally as plenty of issues within a lot of clubs and the womens game can be improved by the clubs without anything to do with the provincial branches or IRFU staff from Lansdowne road.

If the clubs need to be much better at doing things internally, that's the IRFU's responsibility. They can't just sit around their their thumbs up their arses waiting for volunteers to build a club community for them, as you're suggesting.

The Lost Sheep · 17-10-2017 10:53pm

sullivlo wrote: »

Like what? Not being smart. Genuinely curious.

I helped set up a team in Cork with the then Munster development officer (Gemma) who has moved on to pastures new. Amanda took over from her and Amanda is doing a fantastic job. We had full backing from the club to set up the women’s section. The IRFU gave a grant to the club for having a women’s team. I can’t remember the exact amount of money. The team grew and progressed well. I sat on the committee of the club as the women’s rep. We sourced our own sponsors for jerseys and whatnot. The club were very supportive of the team.

We were competing with the GAA for players though. And their resources are better. There’s way more funding available to the ladies GAA.

Simple example. The IRFU run the league. Great. They take over the responsibility for providing referees etc. Great! Until you organise games and the IRFU haven’t sourced a referee for your game and you only find out when the referee doesn’t show. Yet the juniors in the club have a ref, also organised by the IRFU. They were paying refs for the junior games, but not for Division 2 womens games. That doesn’t come from the clubs.

If the profile of the women’s game was raised by the IRFU, the jobs of the clubs would be easier. No joke, 6 of my friends took up rugby after the win over NZ. Because it was popular and publicised.

The IRFU run the AIL ladies league of 8 teams. Thats ran by AIL committee. Any other competition is ran by the provincial branches and the womens and competitions committees. It isnt IRFU sourcing a referee for the games its the 4 provincial referee associations(or society in Ulster). Referees are appointed starting at the highest level game in the province in a weekend and then go down the ranks and games will only get a referee if there is a suitable referee for the level of the game who is available on the day/weekend of a game. The referees in an adult junior 1/2 game get paid nothing different to what they would get for a ladies game which is nothing bar travel expenses.
The clubs need to be doing a far better job. The IRFU and the 4 provincial branches can assist the clubs and that could be better but to simply get more women playing in the clubs it has to be led by the clubs being more innovative in their marketing/selling of the game not simply waiting/relying/hoping the IRFU or the provinces do the work for them

The Lost Sheep · 17-10-2017 11:01pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I mean you keep saying you're speaking from experience, but I'm sure you realise that having family members involved isn't quite the same level of experience as others around here...

And ive refereed and been involved in game. Done a small bit to help with coaching a ladies team for a period as friends were coaching the,

There are multiple things the IRFU can do in a situation like this.
They can go take a communications approach, by starting a campaign to raise awareness. They can take a functional approach, by discussing it directly with leadership of clubs who are behaving in this way, or they can take a developmental approach and work with the coaches affected directly and ensure they feel like they have the tools to advance women's rugby at their club. All of that is squarely in their remit.

Yes its within their remit and they can and should do this but it must be club led. If things within clubs are like people here are saying then they or others with similar views would be far better getting involved in their club and starting to bring about change than hoping/wishing the union do it as the union can only do something if they know exactly where an issue is. These issues have to be club driven.

If the clubs need to be much better at doing things internally, that's the IRFU's responsibility. They can't just sit around their their thumbs up their arses waiting for volunteers to build a club community for them, as you're suggesting.

Im not suggesting that at all. And there is issues internally within a lot of clubs for different reasons that need a lot of improvement. It isnt the IRFUs responsibility to improve them in that they cant. The work has to be put in by the members of the club. Like my club for ages have had a bar and a fairly decent club house but didnt use it as well as they could. They didnt use it to improve the club community(to use your phrase). They do know. That was nothing to do with the IRFU and more people within the club got involved at a committee level etc and changed attitudes within the club and helped improve facilities on offer. The same needs to happen within the womens game

irishbucsfan · 17-10-2017 11:12pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

And ive refereed and been involved in game. Done a small bit to help with coaching a ladies team for a period as friends were coaching the,
Yes its within their remit and they can and should do this but it must be club led. If things within clubs are like people here are saying then they or others with similar views would be far better getting involved in their club and starting to bring about change than hoping/wishing the union do it as the union can only do something if they know exactly where an issue is. These issues have to be club driven.

Im not suggesting that at all. And there is issues internally within a lot of clubs for different reasons that need a lot of improvement. It isnt the IRFUs responsibility to improve them in that they cant. The work has to be put in by the members of the club. Like my club for ages have had a bar and a fairly decent club house but didnt use it as well as they could. They didnt use it to improve the club community(to use your phrase). They do know. That was nothing to do with the IRFU and more people within the club got involved at a committee level etc and changed attitudes within the club and helped improve facilities on offer. The same needs to happen within the womens game

I know you have a bee in your bonnet about Clubs but you are simply wrong in this case.

I came back from spending 6 years in England where the womens' section of both clubs I was involved with did well and also where a lot of our best players for the national team took up or played the game (Egan, Cantwell, Murphy, Molloy and more). The game is in far far better health there.

All of the same problems exist at club level there. Often far worse in the region I was in. If what you were saying was at the heart of the issue, they never would have gotten to where they are now. But they worked around it, we have not. If there wasn't multiple examples of exactly how to solve this problem staring us in the face I might be more willing to consider your argument.

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