Womens' rugby Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

minitrue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414388#Comment_120414388

An often heard refrain is that just putting the men's structures onto the women's game doesn't work. One of JC200022's recurring points is about elite Vs participation rugby and the 10% who want the elite performance environment Vs the 90% who don't. We can probably assume most of the 70 who you would see as poached are in the 10%.

So I think what might be more like the answer to the problem you mention is for the AIL and provincial leagues to be regarded as completely separate in the same way the provinces and clubs are on the men's side. So maybe the same 70 players are still doing the bulk of their training with UL but UL release loads most weekends to play for the non-AIL clubs ( see now sydthebeat suggesting something a bit similar).

I'll also go back to the "big 3" Dublin issue. There's another angle where young women are more prone to move to Dublin anyway for university or work but of course there is also the elite performance environment aspect where there's certainly very good arguments to be made that the IRFU should be throwing resources at e.g. Bohs, Galweigans, Cooke to help them have everything an elite athlete wants spread around the country (so I hear what syd says about a midlands team though I suspect at least for now that's a bit further down the road).

All of this is kinda the big picture point though, right now there's no real plan and structure or if you take the IRFU at face value the plan is to centralise a lot more with the AIL being on the same level as touch rugby!

minitrue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414545#Comment_120414545

Yeah I thought twice about even hinting there might have been a reason to get rid of him (i've absolutely no reason to think that's the case) but I was trying to be charitable to the IRFU by suggesting there could be reasons why they had no choice other than to change now. I don't know what happened but will stick to my point that the fact the IRFU couldn't be bothered to even try to spin it somehow into a positive PR move speaks volumes to me.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414106#Comment_120414106

Its the same as listing players clubs with the mens senior 15s side. Tradition. All irish squads will list a club for a player. As others have said 7s can be very inconsistent with some clubs not competing ever and some clubs only occasionally and even then its for a social weekend

Now if IRFU were to be serious about 7s they would work with the existing 7s tournaments especially the big ones like Kinsale... they would create a 7s series and clubs or even a group of mates could enter a team and try win a series. So you would have the existing 7s tournaments like Kinsale, Midland midnight in Tullamore, Clifden, etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414345#Comment_120414345

Yeah very much social focused and you dont have anything like the take up of it here compared to a lot of countries. ive family and friends who play in england and for some of them theyre club compete every year in 7s and they even have a slightly separate club identity for a 7s team.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414388#Comment_120414388

And thats even including some of the players who only play rugby with the UL college team in SSI competitions. Ive been saying it about Bohs for ages. And Bohs dont even field u18 girls teams. they did have a 16s so hopefully this will change for next year. Shannon and Ballina-Killaloe and other nearby clubs field good numbers at underage but lose plenty of stronger players to Bohs at adult level which doesnt help anyone.. Id definitely agree about transfers. possibly even a limit on interpro players etc. Munsters interpro squad has basically been Bohs and a few others for years now which is wrong and doesnt aid development.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414486#Comment_120414486

At least Dublin has a few clubs competing and then Wicklow as you say have done great work with locally based team. Munster doesnt have near enough clubs at highest level. Max squad numbers should definitely come in and would really help.

The Munster league had a tipperary team last season, primarily based in Thurles and just called itself Thurles this season and there were Waterford and Ennis-Kilrush teams. Get them coaching assistance and it would be great...

Buccs have had a womens set up. But not sure if they did this season though

Caranica

My local ladies gaa club has had to collaborate with another local ladies club to be consistently able to field a team at senior level. Underage is still age graded and separate clubs but there is definitely a drop off for college and work with people moving to the cities. It's something that might work for a 7s league.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120414603#Comment_120414603

I think there are two elements to it.

First off , I would never want to stand in the way of a player who has aspirations of playing at a higher level - Regardless of gender.

I'm involved in a junior club with a successful underage setup and we lose a number of players every year to AIL clubs because players want to try to make that level. It's just how things are.

It happens in Mens and Womens rugby across the board - The big clubs hoover up any player that shows a bit of potential and fill their heads with idea that the only way they can make it is to be playing for them and they only they can offer them the coaching and the access to possible Provincial academies etc. etc.

In Mens those players are spread across multiple AIL clubs so it's perhaps not as immediately obvious as in the Womens game where there are only a handful of AIL clubs.

At college age (18-23) most of the players in womens rugby have far less rugby played than their male counter-parts - That's just the nature of the game for girls over the last 10 years.

It's getting much better as the underage game grows but for the players in that age bracket now , they need actual game time more than anything else.

In my example above, the 70 have all been told they are at an AIL level , but the reality is that a significant number of them will never play AIL regardless of the environment they are in. And even if they might eventually get there, they would be far better served now by playing regularly with a team at a lower level than by simply training in an AIL club.

The concept of "Dual Status" player has always existed , but under current rules I think an AIL team is limited to only 2 or 3 such players per squad. That should change and I would also suggest that they junior club should have first choice on the player as if they are choosing Dual Status the player is unlikely to be a regular starter for the AIL side.

The focus should be on maximising the game time for as many players as possible , having a few clubs with massive squads does nothing for that.

kita99

Enya Breen injured. On behalf of her,a few un experienced players was called up. Why McWilliams don't call Jenny Murphy who is the most strong and reliable (expereanced enough) CTB. Or is IRFU going to call back some 7's players after next week for the crashes against Italy and scotland watching Ireland 7's result and standing in the world series? They are now 5th place following France (It is already quarified 2024 Olympics by the hosting prestage) and Fiji is 6th place below 10pt margin after Ireland. If Ireland keeps this margin, Ireland in fact 4th that qualification place. Is the understanding of me wrong? Even so,I think that it will be difficult to win both countries after 7's team's hard schedules.

sydthebeat

Ireland Team

15. Méabh Deely (Blackrock College RFC/Connacht) (3)

14. Aoife Doyle (Railway Union RFC/Munster) (13)

13. Aoife Dalton (Old Belvedere RFC/Leinster) (3)

12. Vicky Irwin (Sale Sharks/Ulster) (2)

11. Natasja Behan (Blackrock College RFC/Leinster) (3)

10. Dannah O’Brien (Old Belvedere RFC/Leinster) (3)

9. Molly Scuffil-McCabe (Railway Union RFC/Leinster) (5)

1. Linda Djougang (Old Belvedere RFC/Leinster) (25)

2. Neve Jones (Gloucester-Hartpury/Ulster) (14)

3. Christy Haney (Blackrock College RFC/Leinster) (6)

4. Nichola Fryday (Exeter Chiefs/Connacht) (30) (Captain)

5. Sam Monaghan (Gloucester-Hartpury/IQ Rugby) (11)

6. Dorothy Wall (Blackrock College RFC/Munster) (17)

7. Grace Moore (Saracens/IQ Rugby) (6)

8. Deirbhile Nic a Bháird (Old Belvedere RFC/Munster) (5)

Replacements:

16. Clara Nielson (Exeter Chiefs/IQ Rugby)*

17. Sadhbh McGrath (City of Derry/Cooke RFC/Ulster) (1)

18. Kathryn Buggy (Gloucester-Hartpury/IQ Rugby)*

19. Hannah O’Connor (Blackrock College RFC/Leinster) (15)

20. Brittany Hogan (Old Belvedere RFC/Ulster) (11)

21. Nicole Cronin (UL Bohemian RFC/Munster) (22)

22. Anna McGann (Railway Union RFC/Connacht) (2)

23. Lauren Delany (Sale Sharks/IQ Rugby)n(18).

i fear for that team against France. A dry track and france could put 50 on ireland.

sydthebeat

France team to face Ireland: 15 Morgane Bourgeois, 14 Cyrielle Banet, 13 Marine Menager, 12 Gabrielle Vernier, 11 Caroline Boujard, 10 Carla Arbez, 9 Pauline Bourdon, 1 Annaelle Deshaye, 2 Agathe Sochat, 3 Clara Joyeux, 4 Manae Feleu, 5 Audrey Forlani, 6 Axelle Berthoumieu, 7 Emeline Gros, 8 Charlotte Escudero

Replacements: 16 Elisa Riffoneau, 17 Coco Lindelauf, 18 Assia Khalfaoui, 19 Maelle Picut, 20 Gaelle Hermet, 21 Alexandra Chambon, 22 Jessy Tremouliere, 23 Marie Dupouy

sydthebeat

https://player.fm/series/otb-rugby-7448/why-ireland-seem-undercooked-lack-of-organisation-anna-caplice

anna caplice doesnt give a very good overview as to the atmosphere and the management of the women's team from her time playing.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120423058#Comment_120423058

I don't think it's much better at the moment either and people are afraid to speak up and face exile

Larbre34

Good start by the women in green today, going toe to toe with this serious French outfit, however got quite easily overwhelmed in their own red zone to concede on 9 mins.

And as I speak they just footballed their way to a second try. Fortunately their 10 couldn't hit a barn door with a bazooka, so 10-0.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120427863#Comment_120427863

Maybe if we reduced the French to 10, we might have a chance? For all the talking up of this game on RTE, pretty poor stuff.

Bobb Sapp

Marked improvement. I think with McWilliams giving the young women their chance we have to be patient and give the team a chance to build over several seasons. But I understand people want results now!

Bobb Sapp

I feel women are generally more astute intellectually and less prone to hot headedness than men but why o why can they not conclude that they are smaller than the French and are reaping more returns out side than close in? We are still getting good go forward but we are miles smaller and would do better trying to tire the French out on the fringes. Run it wide and run those large women around the park

DellyBelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120427968#Comment_120427968

Bit harsh...God love Ireland they are trying their best...you'd feel sorry for them...

naughtyboy

Even if the Irish girls were made the fittest team in the tournament it would make little difference . They have very poor skills , the passing is dreadful. The 9 and 10 positions especially poor , but its been like that for last 5 years at least. Any rugby team with a decent 9 and 10 can exert some kind of control even when the rest of team are under pressure.

To see the 3 former players on tv3 spinning lies about green shoots etc etc is just a joke.

DellyBelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428308#Comment_120428308

Again very harsh...they tried their best and that is all you can ask...God you'd feel so sorry for them....

Fotish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120419416#Comment_120419416

Good call, France to put 50 points on Ireland .

kita99

HAfter the match,HC talk about the improvement of stats 2nd half without the fact of 14 wemen France. What a easy-going man he is.

Fotish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429658#Comment_120429658

True, we probably should feel sorry for them, nobody likes to see a team embarrassed every week.

Thank heavens for the off button.

kita99

U 18 Irwland girls 15(3T) vs France24 (4T&2G). Well done Ireland. Especially Alma Obehi Atagamen and Risin Maher are both powerful. The Importance of the size at female rugby is proved by them.

kita99

Ireland U18 5-14 England U18. It looked that Ireland Dominated in possetion and teritory by both 65~70%.Why they did't win.Was they teached basic rugby skills and tactics the way of training at ordinary time.They looked to win at phisical abilities.I want to know that how they wivel.ll be trained for getting abilities to internatinal level especially living urban areas. They did well done. Give them the basic envilonments and coaches please.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120467674#Comment_120467674

You do know that they only start contested scrums here at U16 right? The girls are still only learning, give them a break.

As a side note, I find your posts difficult to read sometimes, is it that English isn't your first language?

Richard Hillman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428308#Comment_120428308

I think the studio pundits are looking for coaching jobs. They'll keep their powder dry and won't criticize the team. They'll keep on criticising the IRFU until the IRFU say "ok you do the job".

And if you think the team already has a protected media status now, wait until the women who took zip responsibility and used the media to blame everyone else for them not qualifying for the world cup, they'll be taking over now 😆

Caranica

I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. Interesting times.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/04/13/irish-rugby-old-boys-club-sexism-commonplace/

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120471705#Comment_120471705

some valid points, some hyperbole, some hearsay. Nothing very helpful in it though really.

Neither side comes out of that article very well in my opinion. There has to be a certain realisation from the womens side that things are progressing, however slowly, so pointing back to times when things weren't good is not helpful for anyone. Coaches from Railway Union adding to the conversation isnt really helpful either when they are part of the problem of the lopsided womens AIL due to their hoovering and storage of players. Plus their attempt a few years ago of looking for "senior club status" was a serious misjudgement on their behalf due to their lack of a senior mens side and a fully functions youths and minis sections.

Can anyone provide the full content of the article?

Cosmo Kramer

This is getting embarrassing at this stage with the constant player complaints and leaks to the media.

The contracts they were offered look not dissimilar to the contracts offered to men's 7s players, ultimately the women's and 7s teams contribute next to nothing financially to Irish rugby, so it's just not realistic for them to expect to receive the equivalent of what male players receive at provincial level.

And someone said "who gives a **** about women's rugby" - that's just the view of one person and we're not told what role, if any, they have in terms of the women's game. Why not name and shame, if it's that big a concern?

The blue shorts were brought in for their benefit but they still find a way to use it as a reason for complaint as well.

They seem to just go around looking for things to complain about, or maybe to use as an excuse given their pitiful showings on the field of play. More hammerings coming up in the next few weekends no doubt. And a seemingly neverending free pass from the Irish rugby media to go with them. This needs to stop and they need to focus on improving their results first and foremost.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472641#Comment_120472641

It's free to view?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120472641#Comment_120472641

Special report: Irish rugby likened to 'old boys club' with sexism commonplace

Ireland's men are the best team in their world – but their women's side face an uphill battle

By

Fiona Tomas

13 April 2023 • 7:00am

Ireland's women are on course for the Six Nations wooden spoon, in stark contrast to their men's side and, given their players' concerns, it is not hard to grasp why CREDIT: Tim Clayton/Corbis via Getty Images

The Irish Rugby Football Union has been likened to an "old boys club" after a damning investigation by Telegraph Sport uncovered an alarming amount of sexism towards its women's team.

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