Mux 2 Launched / Saorview Rescan Required

StreetLight

Some test patterns changing again tonight to split bars, but flickering behind the static 'Éireann' caption.

Hibrasil

Saorview: Channels 9 & 10 (W) now permanently showing vertical stripes with Eireann caption at bottom of screen;
Channel 11 showing RTE1+1;
Channel12 (HD) permanently showing vertical stripes - no caption;
Channel 13 (W) permanently showing vertical stripes with Eireann caption at bottom

Joe Kname

<delurk>

Channel 21 just became an info channel right in front of my eyes a few minutes ago as I was flicking through; essentially it's a "new channel coming and you'll need to add it to your channel list" message.

(Edited to add: Actually they are fiddling around with it as I watch. It's now on channel 57. Could be anywhere by the morning )

(Edited to add: Aaaannnnddddd.... back to 21, and I'm back to bed. )

StreetLight

Saorview information card now showing up on LCN 76, advising viewers of a new channel launch. LCN 77 is carrying RTE News Now. Both unhidden on my LG TV.

New Philips test pattern hidden on LCN 75.

UTV Ireland promo card now on LCN 6 in SD.

RTE 1+1 now unhidden on LCN 11.

The Cush

UTV Ireland on LCN 6 (Mux2), LCN 13 during testing
RTE 1+1 LCN 11 with duplicate on LCN 8 for the moment I assume (Mux2 for both)
RTÉ News Now on LCN 21 (Mux1), previously LCN 6
Saorview Information channel on LCN 23 (Mux1), LCN 21 during testing

Most testcards have gone, the hidden HD cards on LCN 12 & 14 remain as does the SD card on LCN 22

They really need to change the backround colour on the Information channel.

galtee boy

Once again, Saorview is the poor relation, no HD for UTVI on it. More viewers lost to Sky.

The Cush

Can anyone confirm the actual resolution of the channels, 704 or 544 x576i?

swoofer

utv is 528 x 576 and the saorview info channel!! this is with BH and auno.

The Cush

swoofer wrote: »

utv is 528 x 576 and the saorview info channel!! this is with BH and auno.

544x576 it is so. Low resolution SD.

irishfeen

Saorview now really seems like the runt of the litter - nobody except RTÉ seems to be interested in its future.

Sam Russell

irishfeen wrote: »

Saorview now really seems like the runt of the litter - nobody except RTÉ seems to be interested in its future.

Even RTE are not interested in it. I think that most, if not all, RTE staff do not watch it - they watch Sky or UPC. The same goes for most journalists.

Even the launch of Saorview was ignored, only the close down of analogue was treated as the launch of Saorview - some seventeen months later. I think the current messing with the signal is just to emphasise it. The Oireachtas channel is payng to be on Sky, not paying to be on UPC, and refusing to pay to be on Saorview.

As well as that, the minister responsible has refused to allow RTE to take Saorview seriously by allowing them freedom to arrange their schedules, but his department has taken seriously the idea of selling off the spectrum.

Soarview has been an unending succession of disappointments. Sad.

RED L4 0TH

irishfeen wrote: »

Saorview now really seems like the runt of the litter - nobody except RTÉ seems to be interested in its future.

UTVI doesn't want to pay the carriage fee associated with HD maybe? Isn't it higher as opposed to the fee for SD?

Disappointing all the same if it remains SD when compared with all the other platforms.

galtee boy

All Saorview has become, is a service to feed secondary TVs around the house, like kitchens or bedrooms, where a person doesn't want to pay Sky for multi-room. God help those who have Saorview only, they really are getting bad value for the licence fee. Couple the lack of HD with no decent Saorview PVR and it really is a poor DTT service. As much as it pains to pay Sky, at least they give top value for it. The only drawback with Sky is having to record RTE1 in SD, but hopefully RTE will soon realise the lack of interest in Saorview and do something about getting RTE 1 in HD on Sky. UTVI obviously think its a waste of money going HD on Saorview.

formerly scottish paddy

Will probably be in SD until TV3 goes HD. €2M a year is a bit steep for a new channel, they will go HD eventually I expect (do you really need HD for Jeremy Kyle?)

galtee boy

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

Will probably be in SD until TV3 goes HD. €2M a year is a bit steep for a new channel, they will go HD eventually I expect (do you really need HD for Jeremy Kyle?)

I will give you any odds you want, TV3 will never go HD on Saorview, next year in time for the Rubgy World Cup, they will do exclusive deals with Sky and UPC for HD. They have no notion of giving 2RN/RTE another penny. Already, you can see that they have only put TV3+1 on UPC, it may appear on Sky, but won't be on Saorview. One mans Jeremy Kyle may be another mans Newsnight, HD should be the norm now for any channel, I don't watch Jeremy Kyle, but I do want to see news, current affairs, movies etc on UTVI in HD, so it will be Sky for me. It's also a shame, to see Saorview going down the tubes fast.

Sam Russell

TV3 are the authors of this because they refused to pay, and caused an anti-competition decision that meant the charges for Saorview were not commercial, but were based on bandwidth. Also the minister (originally Carey from the rump cabinet of Biffo) put an SI into being that hobbled RTE. As a consequence, RTE must pay for four channels, but only get revenue from two.

Add to that, RTE management have no interest in Saorview, and Saorview is not seen as the premium broadcasting platform. Sky and UPC should be forced to take all of Saorview or none of it, including HD, Oireactas TV.

Elmo

galtee boy wrote: »

One mans Jeremy Kyle may be another mans Newsnight

That just might become my signature Brilliant.

Though completely agree with everything in the above post.

TV3 HD, TG4 HD and UTV HD will remain off Saorview.

Jpmarn

TV3 has acquired the rights for the Rugby World Cup 2015. They have promised to go HD for it.

twinklerunner

Jpmarn wrote: »

TV3 has acquired the rights for the Rugby World Cup 2015. They have promised to go HD for it.

Not necessarily on Saorview though

Hotblack Desiato

galtee boy wrote: »

All Saorview has become, is a service to feed secondary TVs around the house, like kitchens or bedrooms, where a person doesn't want to pay Sky for multi-room. God help those who have Saorview only, they really are getting bad value for the licence fee. Couple the lack of HD with no decent Saorview PVR and it really is a poor DTT service.

I really do have to disagree. There is better FTA TV in Ireland now than there ever has been, between Saorview and Freesat. Even the SD-lite channels we complain about are better than the reception most people had in the past, and there are more of them on DTT than there was on analogue. Saorview continues to improve in the channel offering and technical quality, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the UTV test SD transmission is only a placeholder and it moves to HD at launch.

Sam Russell

There are two HD test cards and one SD test card, plus an SD information card (or test card). So plenty of room for HD channels. If TG4, UTVi and TV3 all went HD, there would still be room for OTV.

SRB

Out of interest, compared to say RTÉ1 SD on DSat and RTÉ1 SD on DTT, what is the time delay like between UTV I on DSAT and UTV I on DTT. Duh! sorry, scrub that, the RTÉ 1 SD DTT has gone months now hasn't it. TV3 on Sat and TV3 on DTT.

marclt

UTV I will be SD only on Saorview.

Mr. Rabbit

Sorry if this has been covered before, but if I do a rescan I get an awful lot of blank LCNs from Saorview.

Can anyone tell me what's going on ? Means I have to scroll down loads of blank stations in order to get to Saorview, which is very annoying.

Now would be a good time for TV3 to go HD.

galtee boy

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I really do have to disagree. There is better FTA TV in Ireland now than there ever has been, between Saorview and Freesat. Even the SD-lite channels we complain about are better than the reception most people had in the past, and there are more of them on DTT than there was on analogue. Saorview continues to improve in the channel offering and technical quality, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the UTV test SD transmission is only a placeholder and it moves to HD at launch.

In general, yes, I agree with you. But times are a changing, as Bob Dylan sang, but if Saorview is to survive, it at least has to compete with Sky and UPC, it can't do it with channel offerings, so it must do it with HD at least.

SRB

marclt wrote: »

UTV I will be SD only on Saorview.

Have they actually confirmed this ?

Cerco

galtee boy wrote: »

In general, yes, I agree with you. But times are a changing, as Bob Dylan sang, but if Saorview is to survive, it at least has to compete with Sky and UPC, it can't do it with channel offerings, so it must do it with HD at least.

How can you compare a free service against two which are far from free?
Saorview is not competing with Sky or UPC.

Sam Russell

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Sorry if this has been covered before, but if I do a rescan I get an awful lot of blank LCNs from Saorview.

Can anyone tell me what's going on ? Means I have to scroll down loads of blank stations in order to get to Saorview, which is very annoying.

Now would be a good time for TV3 to go HD.

Saorview signal is being messed about with by RTE/2rn for reasons that are not clear.

The blank channels - there are 38 of them serve no purpose as far as I can see except screw up the signal for non-Saorview TVs/STBs. Who benefits from that?

They have also altered the order of the channels, putting a data channel as the first one on both muxes, which screws up the channel numbering (on my TV - possibly others too).

They have altered the way that series link works so the UK spec units will not work where previously they did. Only Walker units work now. So who benefits from that?

The summer time does not work on my TV (obviously during the summer). I used to a few years ago. Who benefits from that?

Instead of trying to accommodate as many sets as possible, they appear to be trying to exclude as many as they can. I do not understand why. I have one TV that is UK only, bought before the Saorview approval started, and I have a Saorview approved set that operates in UK made because it is a Freesat set, and Freesat will not work unless the set is set to Country=UK. A third set is Saorview approved. Who sets the rules for 2RN/RTE and the Saorview operation?

kooga

what is the correct lcn order for the saorview channels now?

Sam Russell

It is not the LCN order that causes the problem. The LCN order is the order they appear on a Saorview set, which is RTE 1 as LCN 1, RTE 2 as LCN 2, etc. Those two are even on different muxes.

It is the order they are broadcast that causes the problem. The first channel broadcast has been changed, with a data channel being first out of the trap on both muxes. As a result, my first channel is grabbed by a hidden channel so channel one is taken and I cannot shift it. This only happened recently, in the last month or so.

This can be changed and should be, but who do I get onto to get it changed?

Oscarziggy

Cerco wrote: »

How can you compare a free service against two which are far from free?
Saorview is not competing with Sky or UPC.

Totally agree --- on the Freeview side of the Irish Sea we have an advert running which is for Freeview.
I cannot for the life of me see any reason for this advertising a free service which everyone gets as soon as they plug in a new / old TV or set top box as there is nothing else terrestially available.??
Regards

Sam Russell

Saorview are also advertising a free service, saying 97% of programmes watched in Ireland are available fir free on Saorview. I doubt if that is true - maybe 90%.

There was no reason to brand Saorview, nor was there any need for the Tommy and PJ nonsense. If instead they had advertised for people to be aware of the TV standard from when it was decided in order to stop UK standard TVs being sold here, we would have been better served.

It would also be better if they stopped messing with the signal.

dublinman1990

Is anyone seeing a big green box in the top right hand corner of the screen when the short promo loop for UTV Ireland is on right now. I spotted it when I switched on my TV set and Triax combi box after 2:10pm today.

What is the reason for this box to appear on the screen? What are UTV Ireland doing with it?

Oscarziggy

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Is anyone seeing a big green box in the top right hand corner of the screen when the short promo loop for UTV Ireland is on right now. I spotted it when I switched on my TV set and Triax combi box after 2:10pm today.

What is the reason for this box to appear on the screen? What are UTV Ireland doing with it?

Don't know but I think it will slowly get larger and fill the screen by 1st Jan 2015.!!
Regards

RED L4 0TH

Why are there 2 RTE1+1's on Mux 2?

StreetLight

RED L4 0TH wrote: »

Why are there 2 RTE1+1's on Mux 2?

The one on LCN 11 is a recent addition and will replace the original one on 8.

RED L4 0TH

StreetLight wrote: »

The one on LCN 11 is a recent addition and will replace the original one on 8.

Why does this need to be done I wonder?

Hotblack Desiato

Saw a break bumper earlier this evening on RTE News Now saying it was Saorview channel 6 :rolleyes:

The Cush

kooga wrote: »

what is the correct lcn order for the saorview channels now?

Current Saorview multiplex line-up

Channel line-up by LCN on a Saorview TV setup with Ireland as the country/region on first install

LCN

|

Channel

|

Resolution

|

Mux

|
01|RTÉ One|HD - 1440 x 1088|2|
02|RTÉ 2|HD - 1440 x 1088|1|
03|TV3|SD - 544x576|1|
04|TG4|SD - 544x576|1|
05|3e|SD - 544x576|1|
06|UTV Ireland |SD - 544x576|2|previously LCN13 testcard
07|RTÉ Junior**|SD - 544x576|2|
08|RTÉ One +1**|SD - 544x576|2|
09-10*| (blank) ||2|
11|RTÉ One +1|SD - |2|
12*|(colour bars testcard) |HD - 1440 x 1088|2|
13*|(blank)||2|
14*|(testcard)|HD - 1440 x 1088|2|TG4 subtitles and teletext tested previously
15*|(blank)||2|previously - Test transmission/RTÉ One +1
16*|(blank)||2|
17*| (blank) ||2|
18*|(blank) ||1|previously - LCN08 RTÉ1 +1
19*|(blank)||1|
20*|(blank)||1|
21|RTÉ News Now|SD - |1|previously - LCN06
22*|(no channel name/testcard)|SD - 544x576|1|previously - LCN01/11 RTÉ1 SD
23|Saorview Information|SD - 544x576|1|previously - LCN07 RTÉ Junior, LCN17 Oireachtas TV test transmission, LCN21 RTÉ News Now
24-26*|(blank)||1|
27-31*|(blank)||2|
32-42*|(blank)||1|
43-50*|(blank)||2|
200|RTÉ Radio 1|Radio|1|
201|RTÉ Radio 1 Extra|Radio|1|
202|RTÉ 2FM|Radio|1|
203|RTÉ Lyric FM|Radio|1|
204|RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta|Radio|1|
205|RTÉ Pulse|Radio|1|
206|RTÉ 2XM|Radio|1|
207|RTÉ Junior/RTÉ Chill|Radio|1|previously - RTÉ Choice
208|RTÉ Gold|Radio|1|
209|(blank)||1|previously - RTÉ Junior/RTÉ Chill
210-220*|(blank)||2|audio on 212 (Lyric)/213 (Raidió na Gaeltachta)
254|SSU|Data|1|
255|SSU|Data|2|

Multiplex 1 (2RN 1)

LCN

|

Channel

|

Resolution

|
02|RTÉ 2|HD - 1440 x 1088|
03|TV3|SD - 544x576|
04|TG4|SD - 544x576|
05|3e|SD - 544x576|
06|(no channel name/RTÉ News Now)|SD - 544x576|
18*|(blank) ||previously - LCN08 RTÉ1 +1
19*|(blank)||
20*|(blank)||
21|RTÉ News Now|SD - |previously - LCN06
22*|(no channel name/testcard)|SD - 544x576|previously - LCN01/11 RTÉ1 SD
23|Saorview Information|SD - 544x576|previously - LCN07 RTÉ Junior, LCN17 Oireachtas TV test transmission, LCN21 RTÉ News Now
24-26*|(blank)||
32-42*|(blank)||
200|RTÉ Radio 1|Radio|
201|RTÉ Radio 1 Extra|Radio|
202|RTÉ 2FM|Radio|
203|RTÉ Lyric FM|Radio|
204|RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta|Radio|
205|RTÉ Pulse|Radio|
206|RTÉ 2XM|Radio
207|RTÉ Junior/RTÉ Chill|Radio|previously - RTÉ Choice
208|RTÉ Gold|Radio|
209|(blank)||previously - RTÉ Junior/RTÉ Chill

Multiplex 2 (2RN 2)

LCN

|

Channel

|

Resolution

|
01|RTÉ One|HD - 1440 x 1088|
06|UTV Ireland |SD - 544x576|previously LCN13 testcard
07|RTÉ Junior**|SD - 544x576|
08|RTÉ One +1**|SD - 544x576|
09-10*|(blank)||
11|RTÉ One +1|SD - |
12*|(colour bars testcard)|HD - 1440 x 1088|
13*|(blank)||
14*|(testcard)|HD - 1440 x 1088|TG4 subtitles and teletext previously
15*|(blank)||previously - Test transmission/RTÉ One +1
16*| (blank) |
17*| (blank) |
27-31*|(blank)||
43-50*|(blank)||
210-220*|(blank)||audio on 212 (Lyric)/213 (Raidió na Gaeltachta)

* Hidden on Saorview receivers but can be selected by entering the channel no. via the remote control
** RTÉ Junior 0700-1845 approx / RTÉ One +1 1900-0100/0200 approx. Timesharing

StreetLight

RED L4 0TH wrote: »

Why does this need to be done I wonder?

I posted the following guess in another thread:

I think they will eventually drop RTE 1+1 on 8 and make the block of ten starting at 11 for the +1 channels. So if there is ever to be an RTE 2+1 it would be at 12, TV3+1 at 13 and so on.

I also think the block of ten starting at 21 is for news and information channels. At the moment we have RTE News Now on 21 and the Saorview Information channel on 23, so maybe 22 is for Oireachtas TV.

Sam Russell

There are currently 4 HD channels on Saorview. RTE 1 and 2, and two test cards. There are 3 HD channels on mux2, and three SD channels.

So there is room on mux1 and 2 for five HD channels, RTE 1 and 2, TV3, TG4, UTVi. There is also room for OTV (SD) and a few +1 channels. There are two SSU channels, but I think only one is needed.

So, LCN 1-7 as is. LCN 11 to LCN 16 for +1 channels, and 21, 22 etc for news channels.

If the two muxes are full, as now - but full of zeros, then the cost of running them remains the same. As costs are shared according to bandwidth, then everyone taking more bandwidth by getting HD and +1 channels, cost remain much the same. So ridiculously high tariffs become more reasonable.

There is hope yet.

The Cush

On the Saorview Information channel they've changed to white text on a black backround, good decision.

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

The Cush wrote: »

On the Saorview Information channel they've changed to white text on a black backround, good decision.

Test channel 22 has Faisneise Saorview on the epg bar with test card and tone.

kooga

Rescan complete all the tvs and boxes at home and all is well>

h7nlrp2v0g5u48

Test channel 22 now saying test transmission on the epg bar. I wonder is OTV on the way.

marclt

SRB wrote: »

Have they actually confirmed this ?

Yes they have.

What should the SD resolution be for 576? I'm guessing 544x576 is lower than SD quality? Lower than freeview?

If so, why is this the case?

Sam Russell

It is because of the way 2RN are paid. 2RN have to get €12m per year for running two muxes. The users pay by bandwidth and TV3 and TG4 are refusing to pay. Consequently, 2RN are transmitting test cards and zeros to fill up the two muxes.

I have posted on another thread how, if 5 HD channels and extra SD channels to fill up the two muxes, the cost per HD falls to €1.6m and an SD channel to €650k. The difference in charges between 720 by 576 and 544 by 576 is quite small.

So we could have 5 HD channels, 4 current SD channels and 4 or 5 +1 channels.

Not great but much better than now. The BAI could and should enforce this.

The Cush

marclt wrote: »

What should the SD resolution be for 576? I'm guessing 544x576 is lower than SD quality? Lower than freeview?

The correct resolution should be 704x576i, the closest to actual 4:3/16:9 format. The lower 544x576i resolution is used to increase capacity in a mux, this isn't required now as they have 2 muxes with lots of spare capacity. They did test LCN 11 and 21 with 704x576i recently but not sure what resolution they're running at now.

I believe Freeview uses 3 different resolutions, 544x576i, 704x576i and 720x576i for the BBCs, maybe someone can confirm?

satelliteman20

Both lcn 11 and 21 are 544x576 just like the other sd channels with no other channels on the horizon to launch in hd u would think that they would change the spec to use 704x576 instead of wasting bandwith,
with mpeg 4 they should get away with a bitrate averaging 2.3 mbs for slow moving content

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

I believe Freeview uses 3 different resolutions, 544x576i, 704x576i and 720x576i for the BBCs, maybe someone can confirm?

The BBC SD mux changed from 720x576 to 704x576 back in June according to ths post in DS - http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1968227

The D3+4 mux is now running at 720x576, the SDN and other SD muxes at 544x576.

http://en.digitalbitrate.com/dtv.php?mux=BBCA&pid=4164&live=9&lang=en