Minimum Alcohol pricing to be signed into Law

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

ThisRegard

Technocentral wrote: »

This will surely help craft beer sales, no one is going to spend 2 bills a can on that muck they sell in Lidl like Excelsior anymore surely, best to buy something decent with your two notes, not saying I agree with minimum pricing just wondering if it will up the quality of what people are drinking?

I think they'll have their prices increased in order to differentiate themselves still from the other stuff.

rubadub

Technocentral wrote: »

This will surely help craft beer sales, no one is going to spend 2 bills a can on that muck they sell in Lidl like Excelsior anymore surely, best to buy something decent with your two notes, not saying I agree with minimum pricing just wondering if it will up the quality of what people are drinking?

I will certainly be changing, and expect others would too. I hope better quality low alcohol beers come out. If drinking a lot I prefer low % to stay better hydrated and slow down the intake.

Rememeber its all based on alcohol content. Some I spoke to said stuff like "I will be buying litre bottles in future, and strong cans" missing the point, due to the media dumbing it down.

Excelsior is 3.9%, so could be sold for €1.53. Perlenbacher I think is 4.9%, so €1.93.

I drink any old muck, but do fork out for better beers in pubs. In an offie a bottle of budvar might be 2.5times the price of other drinks, I find it hard to justify the difference as I am not overly particular. In a pub the budvar might be just 10 or 20cent more so I think its worth it. If the previous €1 can is now €2 and budvar remains the same in the offie I will probably pay what now appears little more.

Atlantic Dawn

It's bad news for the pubs, they will have less customers coming through their doors as people will have less disposable income to spend.

BuilderPlumber

Help!!!! wrote: »

The people who the government want to target will still get the same quota of alcohol, whether it be giving their children less food, doing more burglaries or mugging more old people. It will only affect the people who want a few quite beers at home.
The reason pubs don't have huge crowds going is because they charge stupid prices for non alcoholic drinks. Why would a designated driver want to spend the same amount as the people getting drunk when they could all stay at home & pay less. Putting the price up in supermarkets will still not get people going back to the pubs.
In the end it will be beer runs to the UK & Europe, poitin making a huge comeback, fake spirits being sold ( probably more people going to ER ) more crime burglaries/muggings & more children going hungry

Yes, and it should with a general election coming up be totally scrapped. Make no mistake about it, this is just action taken to support the vintners who are constantly complaining about cheap drink in supermarkets. If the vintners had their way, drink would be only sold in pubs and other such venues.

If the government was really interested in tackling drunk and disorderly related crime, they would arrest those at it and then put them under curfews if they represent a constant and persistent threat to the public.

And no, it will not get people going back to the pubs. If the vintners are really interested in getting people back, they would put down their prices and provide better atmospheres rather than fleecing the people with expensive drink and giving little entertainment, etc. Some publicans are so sour and bitter about everything it is a wonder how they ever can do business. The vintners would want to look to their own issues rather than getting the government to imitate the Taliban on their behalf.

BeerNut

rubadub wrote: »

I hope better quality low alcohol beers come out.

I hoped that when excise duty was halved for sub-2.8% ABV beers but it didn't happen.

BuilderPlumber

ThisRegard wrote: »

I think they'll have their prices increased in order to differentiate themselves still from the other stuff.

The price of craft beers especially when sold in pubs is ridiculous. Some are quite nice but others are very bitter and not worth what they are priced at. Others are just imitations of beers from the Czech Republic, Germany and Belgium that can be bought much cheaper in their original forms.

oblivious

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's bad news for the pubs, they will have less customers coming through their doors as people will have less disposable income to spend.

I could see the wetherspoons chain doing well out of it, if it happens

Shelflife

oblivious wrote: »

At least a true tax would add revenue to the state, this minimum price goes directly to the retailer !

As a small retailer i would seriously doubt that my margins will increase. The can that we are currently selling for say €1.09 and making 15% or 16c on will increase in price to us from the supplier and we will have to sell it at €1.95 and still make prob the same cash margin on it so we will still make 16c-17c on it or 8.5%.

We may get a few cents extra on it but I doubt it.

If they wanted to ban below cost selling it would be easy enough to police and if the fines were stiff enough it would discourage it quick enough as well.

Technocentral

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

The price of craft beers especially when sold in pubs is ridiculous. Some are quite nice but others are very bitter and not worth what they are priced at. Others are just imitations of beers from the Czech Republic, Germany and Belgium that can be bought much cheaper in their original forms.

Thats the point of hoppy beers, its a selling point not a disadvantage for discerning craft beer drinkers like ole Technocentral!

Technocentral

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It's bad news for the pubs, they will have less customers coming through their doors as people will have less disposable income to spend.

I don't think most people spend all their disposable income on take out alcohol, maybe it will encourage more to go to bars as the difference in price between takeout and pubs narrows.

oblivious

Shelflife wrote: »

As a small retailer i would seriously doubt that my margins will increase.

Any state imposted tariff should go to the state to reuse as it see fit

Shelflife wrote: »

The can that we are currently selling for say €1.09 and making 15% or 16c on will increase in price to us from the supplier .

The increase I though was on the point of sale ie the consumers. The price to retail would remain the same as its not a tax just a forced price hike.

edit

Head 6 Minimum Price of Alcohol Products
This Head provides that:
(1) It shall be an offence to:

"Sell or supply alcohol products on the licensed premises at a price that is below
the minimum price of that product concerned;


That would read to me as the MUP to be place on the sale end and not on drinks disturbitors side like a TAX

L1011

Shelflife wrote: »

If they wanted to ban below cost selling it would be easy enough to police and if the fines were stiff enough it would discourage it quick enough as well.

So little is actually sold below cost, it would end up being quite embarrassing compared to their cries of below cost selling for years.

oblivious wrote: »

The increase I though was on the point of sale ie the consumers. The price to retail would remain the same as its not a tax just a forced price hike.

It is, but clearly the distributors and manufacturers are going to ensure they get 'their share' of that increased price.

Harry Angstrom

Does anyone know when this is due to be passed into law? I was under the impression that this wouldn't take effect until at least the middle of next year at some point (provided Fascist Gael are returned to government) but I've just been reading on the Newstalk website that it's due to take effect in January

jobbridge4life

Technocentral wrote: »

I don't think most people spend all their disposable income on take out alcohol, maybe it will encourage more to go to bars as the difference in price between takeout and pubs narrows.

It is not the role of the Government to be acting as the Vintners enforcement wing. Aside from this though it is naive in the extreme to believe that the markets pricing will not shift in general as a response to this measure. If the worst wine is now at a minimum of lets just say 8 euro, then the wines that are 8 euros now will increase in price and so on through out the entire spectrum of prices including in pubs.

oblivious

L1011 wrote: »

It is, but clearly the distributors and manufacturers are going to ensure they get 'their share' of that increased price.

Possible like any another price hike a drinks distributor want to enforces. Its wont been passed on to the state coffers but been absorbed in some part of the retail chain.

Jayop

This will do nothing to reduce alcohol intake, it'll simply mean that already strapped people will have even less disposable income for other things. I'll still drink exactly the same amount as before. It's insanity.

L1011

oblivious wrote: »

Possible like any another price hike a drinks distributor want to enforces. Its wont been passed on to the state coffers but been absorbed in some part of the retail chain.

There's nothing to be passed on to the state...

BuilderPlumber

Jayop wrote: »

This will do nothing to reduce alcohol intake, it'll simply mean that already strapped people will have even less disposable income for other things. I'll still drink exactly the same amount as before. It's insanity.

This thing is madness to be even proposed at the time of a general election. Whoever advises the government on this hasn't a clue and I thought Leo Varadkar would be more intelligent and stand up and say that I am not going along with such rubbish. But apparently not. It appears our government are controlled 100% by business entities, in this case the vintners, that represent 5% of the population. What the vintners don't realise is that this will backfire and the politicians do not seem to take note of the damage this will do to support coming up to an election. People should lobby Leo Varadkar to change this before it is too late. If a gang of vintners can do so, so too can the people.

oblivious

L1011 wrote: »

There's nothing to be passed on to the state...

Typo on my part should have stated if it was a normal tax increase

Spanish Eyes

There is a new law out now the Lobbying Act 2015 where any lobbyists covered by the legislation have to register and make regular returns.

https://www.lobbying.ie/

I note from a press release that a trial run was instigated up to August 2015, but the information is NOT open to the public! I wonder who was in there now....

Anyway, if it is transparent, it should show vested interests i.e. Vintners for one.

But given the scandals of the last few days in CCs I wouldn't hold my breath.

BeerNut

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

What the vintners don't realise is that this will backfire and the politicians do not seem to take note of the damage this will do to support coming up to an election.

Yeah? Which party do I vote for if I want this stopped by the next government?

BuilderPlumber

BeerNut wrote: »

Yeah? Which party do I vote for if I want this stopped by the next government?

None. Not one political party represents the people. IIRC, this thing was originally proposed by Fianna Fail and Fine Gael continued with it. Lobby groups like the vintners have their reps in each party.

BeerNut

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

None. Not one political party represents the people. IIRC, this thing was originally proposed by Fianna Fail and Fine Gael continued with it. Lobby groups like the vintners have their reps in each party.

That's what I thought. So the damage it will do to government support is actually nil.

L1011

BeerNut wrote: »

Yeah? Which party do I vote for if I want this stopped by the next government?

Not the two cheeks of the same arse (FF/FG), as they're both in the pockets of publicans.

There's not a huge amount of other options unless you want the country skinted, though.

BuilderPlumber

BeerNut wrote: »

That's what I thought. So the damage it will do to government support is actually nil.

I wouldn't say nil but those who do vote will vote for the same old nonrepresentative parties but more and more incl. myself will not vote at all because they do not represent the people anymore (if they ever did).

Why can't a government just come along and do something nice for the people rather than telling law abiding people what we should be doing and setting up policies for vested interests? I do not think anyone who fought and died for Ireland fought and died for this?

In all honesty, not one party is worth my vote. I thought Leo Varadkar was intelligent but he is just another weak politician swayed by lobby groups and would be no better or worse a Taoiseach than Enda Kenny. He is no better or worse a health minister than any of his recent predecessors. The first health minister who publically opposes lobby groups hiding behind healthocracy will gain my respect.

rubadub

Shelflife wrote: »

As a small retailer i would seriously doubt that my margins will increase. The can that we are currently selling for say €1.09 and making 15% or 16c on will increase in price to us from the supplier and we will have to sell it at €1.95 and still make prob the same cash margin on it so we will still make 16c-17c on it or 8.5%.

You are saying you make 16cent profit on a €1.09 can?

Then my understanding is if it goes to €1.95, that is an 86cent increase. And the government gets 16cent as VAT and you get 70cent.

So for you to be making the same 16cent on it are you expecting the supplier to raise the price by 70cent the day this comes in? taking all of the extra profit themselves?

If so I would do what I have said numerous times, import from a region where there is no minimum pricing and so lower wholesale prices, probably lower than here right now. Plenty of independent offies have peculiar foreign beers at low prices, which I presume are more profitable to them than buying from the proper distribution routes of the big boys. My supervalu sometimes has scottish market heineken cheaper than Irish cans, and its 5% too, while the irish is 4.3%. I expect there are many distributors like this already

I have heard of a guy who is meant to import beers direct from germany an sell on, all above board.

Also there is no price fixing of the wholesalers going on, if they do increase it by 70cent surely some other brewer will not up the price as much (or at all) and benefit from a huge increase in sales to offies.

BeerNut

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

more and more incl. myself will not vote at all because they do not represent the people anymore

Sure. But not voting causes zero damage to the parties. Minimum pricing will not backfire politically. They've thought about this.

BuilderPlumber

BeerNut wrote: »

Sure. But not voting causes zero damage to the parties. Minimum pricing will not backfire politically. They've thought about this.

Not immediately. But eventually. When politicians distance themselves more and more from the electorate and do not care, this is unhealthy. In recent years, more and more people have grown to hate politicians because of the way they carry on. Picking this issue about increasing alcohol prices at a time when floods, the aftermath of the recession, emigration, homelessness, etc. are the REAL problems they don't do anything about while the politicians enjoy and consume copious amounts of cheap booze themselves will do nothing to rehabilitate them. Revolution could happen and will if politicians do not cop on and do something positive for a change.

Ageyev

Shelflife wrote: »

As a small retailer i would seriously doubt that my margins will increase. The can that we are currently selling for say €1.09 and making 15% or 16c on will increase in price to us from the supplier and we will have to sell it at €1.95 and still make prob the same cash margin on it so we will still make 16c-17c on it or 8.5%.

We may get a few cents extra on it but I doubt it.

If they wanted to ban below cost selling it would be easy enough to police and if the fines were stiff enough it would discourage it quick enough as well.

If 40% 700ml bottles of spirits are now starting at €27-28 then someone will be doing well. Maybe not you but someone will do well out of this.